Dave the Cook

I'm with the Colonel. Pork chops are like squid -- cook 'em real quick, or cook 'em real long. In between is usually disappointing.

One meaning of travel is simply to move or to pass from one point to another. Coincidentally, the OED cites Rutherford. Pfft! What's he know? Uncle.

No offense taken, G. It'll teach me not to think out loud, in public, after enough wine to make for sloppy thinking, but not enough to keep me from typing. Sorry to have snapped back. And "travel" is a useful expression, but also something of a pathetic fallacy, no? As for the question at hand, the answer seems to be, "Well, it's complicated."

Right. This is what I was after. Thanks, Janet As I recall, once heat is applied, the proteins coagulate in structures that are more net-like than they were originally, and this traps the moisture. And now my feeble brain recalls that I myself have already been through this: here.

I am not convinced that the perception of juiciness is not a psycholocigal and physiological reaction to the improved seasoning. This doesn't mean it's not worth doing. However, is it possible that there is some sort of retention effect associated with elevated salt levels? In other words, if you get the salt across the cell membrane, can it sort of "lock" itself in? The absolute quantity of liquid in the cells would not change from pre-brining to post-brining, but brining would allow the cells to retain more liquid through the cooking process.

That's not what I said, Doctor, but I didn't make myself at all clear, so you can have that one. Thanks for the physics lesson, though learning physics from someone who thinks heat "travels" might be a fool's errand. Could you explain something less obvious? Does the surface lose more heat to the inside of the meat or to the air? This depends on the relative internal/external temperatures, doesn't it?

I had dinner at Jules Verne in 1998. It was ordinary. By all means visit the Tower, but eat elsewhere.

Welcome, dlc. It would be great if you could post even something short on either or both venues. For those not familiar with Atlanta, Bacchanalia and Joel are certainly among the top five restaurants in Atlanta, if not the top two. Personally, I'm interested because I have a birthday coming up and have been promised dinner at the restaurant of my choice. These two, plus Seeger's and The Dining Room comprise the pool.

Here's how I do it: Mince six to eight cloves of garlic. Measure out your acid: three to six tablespoons, depending on what you use and how acidic you want it. Choose from red wine/cider/malt/sherry vinegar, lemon juice, or a combination. I like about 1/2-1/2 lemon juice and sherry vinegar. Measure out your oil: about 3/4 cup EVOO. If you like heat, add a minced jalapeno for vegetal notes, or cayenne or red pepper flakes. Estimate the volume of everything you've got, and chop enough parsley, cilantro or a combination (I've seen oregano, too) to match. Whiz everything but the oil, plus about 1/2 teaspoon salt and 1/4 teaspoon black pepper, in a food processor, then drizzle in the oil.

Thanks. BTW, I just picked up the Cafe cookbook for $2.50. New.

Good tip, tommy. Chimichurri is especially good on flank and skirt steaks, as well as smoked brisket.

It also strikes me as odd in that the layout seems to be the antithesis to his approach to plating. Where on the plate his lines are clean and his it's so obvious that he appreciates harmonious presentations - I was particularly amused by the combination of crosnes and spaetle in a squab dish - the pages of this book don't tell your eye where to settle and where to read. Just to save me the trouble of looking it up, which is Boulud's latest?

Well, this is the traditional way. But I have to say I like Heron's notion of "seek(ing) them out in another form." For instance, I'd like to seek them out as a dolphin. Or maybe an 18th century Caribbean pirate. edit: gave up one 'r' for Jinmyo's subsequent post.

Ron, you've rediscovered a classic Tuscan preparation. Usually a Porterhouse or T-bone is used, and a little EVOO. With the ribeye you might not want the extra fat, but it's worth a try.

Don't feel bad Janet, Wolke blows my theory, too. You may be on to something with the moisture, though. Pork is cheap these days; maybe I'll do two roasts of the same weight: one dry, one brined, and see what happens, especially as regards carryover. But before I do that, I want to back up to something Matt said earlier: What do you mean by that? There was an article by our very own Russ Parsons in the Atlanta food section yesterday. I found it at the LA Times here (quite amusing to enter in the search engine the phrase "roast parsons," by the way). It says: Two things here. First, the roasting temperature. I used 325, so it was on the low end. And he states explicitly that "smaller cuts retain less heat." What he doesn't say is if he has proof, or if he is employing conventional wisdom. It's intuitive, but we've been tripped up by intuition at least twice already in this investigation. I am also wondering about Russ' high/low roasting temperature findings as they relate to smaller cuts. In a little roast like a 2-1/2 pound pork loin, how does surface temperature (upon removal from the oven) affect carryover? Maybe Russ will see this and post some additional information. Matt, thanks for the room temperature reminder, but that's standard practice for me. It's good to get this stuff out, though. Not everybody reading this will know, and it's particularly important to this topic.

I think of bones like the old aluminum nail in the baked potato: a way to conduct heat to interior spaces. Being mostly calcium, they are metallic in a way, so they heat up faster than muscle. This is why you avoid them when you position the thermometer. But that means they cool off faster, too, and theoretically, they can draw heat out just as easily as in. But they could also act as internal radiators. I'm not sure where this gets us. I'm still thinking mass plays a role; your chicken story supports this, I think. How big was it? What temperature did you roast it at?

I like prunes; never done figs, but it has possibilities. I've also done apples and onions -- cutting the sweet without something savory makes a nice complexity, and for prunes I use onion and garlic. Andouille and corn bread is good but a little monochromatic -- pork on pork, just a little sweetness from the corn is welcome relief. Finally, Paul Prudhomme does an oyster stuffing that is quite a surprise. PM me if you want recipes. I think Matt is right -- five degrees. Of course brining gives you a margin for error, so you'll be fine. The thing is, I didn't get any carryover. I left it in the pan, but the temperature started dropping the minute it came out of the oven. When I saw this happening, I put it back in the heat and left it till it hit 148, then took it out again. This time it carried and peaked at 155. This took about five minutes -- I'm not sure of the exact timing because by then I was resuscitating the rest of the menu. I'm thinking there's some sort of critical temperature (which must vary according to the shape and density of the meat) you have to get to before you get any carryover. Certainly you get carryover from a standing rib roast at temperatures lower than 135. I read Bouland's stuff a while back; maybe I need to check it again. Yes, Lily, we did the maple glaze. I took the orange option and echoed it with asparagus and orange-tarragon beurre blanc. You're right, it was very tasty. Eventually. I'll do it again, but I'll brine the pork, or spring for Niman or Pipestone. Tell HH to be careful with that leprosy -- don't want any essential parts falling off.

These are as wise as any other two paragraphs on all of eGullet. Thanks, John.

Depsite increasing reservations about the quality of supermarket pork, tonight I roasted a pork loin. I followed a recipe published in this month's Cook's Illustrated. Contrary to most of their pork recipes, brining is not employed. Instead, the roast is browned on the stovetop, then put in a 325 F oven to finish (sear and bung, as we say around here), and pulled at 135 F. According to the recipe, carryover will take it to 150 F, which is good for pork loin, as far as I'm concerned. According to CI, this is the key to keeping the flavor in lean cuts of supermarket pork. So I have two reservations: quality of the raw ingredients, and now technique. A 2-1/2 pound boneless loin is about 2-1/2 inches across; when it's tied as directed in the recipe, it slims down to about 2 inches. I have serious doubts about 15 degrees of carryover. I used to have a rule to always follow a new recipe as written -- the first time. I don't stick to this rule as much as I used to. I've gotten to the point where I can tell when a recipe hasn't been tested, or the tester has clearly used equipment that is so different from mine that adjustments will have to be made or it won't stand a chance in Dave's Short-Order Kitchen. But by and large, I trust CI, so I decided to do it their way. If it would make the loin palatable, I was up for it. I pulled the roast at 135, and with the prescribed 15 minutes for carryover to do its magic, I started to put the final touches everything else. in the middle of mounting the butter for the sauce, I checked the thermometer. 134. Additional probing confirmed that this was not an erroneous reading. No carryover. Now the temp was 132. Mrs. Dave comes from a gray meat background. Over 25 years, I've reprogrammed her on many meats, but rare pork is one I skipped over. She might eat it, but there will be lots of questions, and frankly, my answers would lack confidence, because rare pork is, well, rare for me, too. Short version: dinner was late. I would be willing to chalk this one up to experience, except that this is not the first time it's happened. In my experience, recipes almost always overstate carryover effects, and this is just one example. So I ask you, is it me, or is it the recipe?

Assuming we're talking about a restaurant situation, you may be giving them a $5 portion, but it's a $5 potion for which they've agreed to pay $30. How hard should you argue with them?

Um... ...at the risk of looking foolish for suggesting the obvious, why not get some more double cream, and try it tonight without jeopardizing your infusion? If it doesn't work, you've got time to figure out an alternative; if it does, Bob's your uncle.

Yes, that's it. I lost all my cookies recently, and apparently I wasn't logged in. That's why I couldn't find it, I guess. D'Oh.

My brother in law has one, too. And the bottom kept falling off. He apparently soved this by never removing it for cleaning. Over Christmas I went to use it. Through the glass I saw mildew growing between the plastic shroud and the jar. Gack.

I read a review of these recently. I want to say it was in Cook's Illustrated, but I can't find it on their site. In any case, the points I remember were: - Tall, narrow jars are better than short, fat ones. They blend better, because the blades come in contact with a greater proportion of food -- the result of the vortex formed in the jar, whichis more efficient in a narrow space. - Don't pay more for lots of speeds. Three or four are sufficient. - Pay attention to button design (membrane or exposed). It's a cleaning issue. - Note the button combinations required to turn the thing on and off. Some designs are convoluted, requiring you to punch three buttons to turn it on, or two to turn it off. - Glass jars are preferred, if weight is not an issue. - Higher wattage motors are generally less likely to burn out. - Price is not necessarily an indication of quality All I can remember for now.

This reminds me something called a Headrest, which I first saw at the B&L Warehouse in Athens: face away from the bar, tilt your head back until it touches the bar, allow two or three bartenders to pour two or three liqueurs each straight down your throat. Wild applause for anyone slack-tonsiled enough to withstand the entire pour. I actually saw people pay for this privilege.