Dave the Cook

Really??!! Twelve dollars? I was going to say there's no way I'm buying a torch, but for twelve bucks.... Flame on!

Those look identical to me, except for the logos and the fact that the listed dimensions are different. But I can think of a couple of different ways to measure them, so I'm not concerned. For forty bucks, I might spring for real poultry shears. Chef's Choice is a good brand. As for the torch, go to Home Depot. For $12, you can get a decent propane torch. (You can get it on the same trip as theone for the chain saw.) It won't have the fancy stand, but it will make a bigger flame, which, counterintuitively, is more controllable -- and faster. Or, (sigh), use brown sugar, per adoxograph. edit: got the price right the second time

Hmmm . . . which answer do you want?

'cause they flew South two or three weeks ago? Welcome, Priscilla and Varmint!

Word. Maybe Matthew can help us, if not with Burgundy, with an alternative from somewhere else that uses the same grapes. Also ditto on the duck. I had my eye on Julia's Duck Deconstruction (the name of the recipe escapes me). You get a bit of several techniques in there, though come to think of it, roasting might not be one of them. But I'm OK with roasting, too.

I don't know if there's a recipe in J&J, and I know it's a cliche and everything, but how many of us have actually made Creme Brulee? I've done it only once, a number of years ago.

I'm still pursuing my dish-size theory. What did you use? Oh my. I'll have to try this. Works for me, unless we want to pursue Jacques and Jules down the rice path. Yes. This is a very weak area for me.

I'll invoke the holday excuse on the pate. I want to make it, but the end of the year will be better for me -- I'll have a lot more help in consuming it. I'm happy with any of the beef dishes; it's a matter of which techniques we want to cover. I'm more comfortable with stewing and braising than sauteeing, though as I recall, the beef in the bourguignon gets a browning -- always a challenge to get it nice and brown without burning the fond. This doesn't bring us a bit closer to a decision, except to say that I'm with Heather -- I'd like to get some challenging veggie dishes into my portfolio. This sort of argues for the bourguignon, since it leaves time for something fancy while it's simmering.

Hmmm. Same here. Vidalias have a lot of water, in my experience. (I also think they're a waste of money if you're doing anything that cooks for a while, but that's another thread.) Bread and book: good job.

No butter in our recipe. I like yours better. How long is the baking? The taters got a two to three-minute simmer in the stock before being put in the baking dish without decorative arrangement (they could have used some, but the simmer cuts down on the baking time). BTW, did anyone notice the stock thickening? I was dubious. Malawry reminded me of the onions, which were copious in Jacques' dish. I liked them, but now I wonder if maybe they contributed to the liquid problems? What kind of onions did y'all use?

Scissors rule for spatchcocking. I don't see any point in using a knife, and a cleaver is too unwieldy for me. Absolutely, go to the hardware store. But I like the Wusthof kitchen (not poultry) scissors, 'cause you can take 'em apart and put 'em in the dishwasher. Disassembly also makes them easier to sharpen.

Is that the one with the dinosaur skeleton? That's probably where I got the scissors idea -- one of those slap-your-forehead moments. As I recall, you and I were both spatchcocking with scissors at Varmint's.

This looks great. I love the way the skin is handled. I'm sure that the reason Jacques removes the skin is the yucky texture of braised chicken skin. As for why do it this way, when we could just roast it? like having a number of ways to cook something. This is a great next-day dish -- we finished it off for Sunday lunch, and if anything, it was better than Saturday night. This can come in very handy. I could cook it Sunday and hold it until Tuesday, for instance, without worrying that it will deteriorate. I could do the same with roast chicken, or fried, I suppose. But reheated (or cold) roast or fried chicken, while very good, are not the same thing as their hot counterparts.

Wow. What a great series of posts. This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping this would be. Chicken Great picture, Heather. I suspected that chives wouldn't add much to the flavor (I had forgotten them, and used some thiinly sliced scallion tops. But you have to admit that the chives add a nice visual touch; your picture is perfect evidence. Like you, I'd try tarragon next time, but maybe I'd keep the chives just for their visual appeal. Yes, the breasts were to be boneless. As Seth points out, the bone-in breast makes for uneven heating, thanks to the arched ribcage. But that's easy to work around, I think (I find that making an extra turn, so the breast cooks on the thick edge for a couple of minutes, does the trick), and next time I'd probably split the breast and leave the meat on the bone. I didn't have the alcohol issues with the sauce, although I anticipated them. As I was pouring the wine into the pan, I was thinking, "Man, is this all that goes in here? And then we're supposed to cover it? None of the alcohol will evaporate." But no one commented on it at dinner; in fact, we were wishing I'd taken the time to heat up a loaf of bread to soak it up. I cook with wine a lot, so maybe we're used to it. Or maybe it was the type of wine? I used an inexpensive Sauvignon Blanc -- Woodbridge, I think. What did everyone else use? Potatoes I used Yukon Golds. Since we were down to three people, I halved the recipe and used a 5-cup Corning Ware dish. At an hour, the top wasn't brown, so I gave it another 15 minutes, then let it sit on the counter for probably another 15. While no one liked it as much as a gratin made with some sort of dairy, it was OK, and certainly lacked the calories of something made with milk, butter and cheese. The potatoes were kind of overdone, though, because of the extra time needed to brown. I didn't have the soupiness problem. That makes me the odd man out, and I'm wondering why. One issue is the dish, I think. Cook's Illustrated makes a point in their The Best Recipe that the shape and size of the dish can make all the difference in the world. I think that's especially true when you're working with a gratin that relies entirely on absorption; gratins with dairy in them also thicken because the milk proteins curdle and thicken the sauce. I think if I had used a pan with a smaller footprint, the potatoes would have needed the longer time to cook through, and so would have been done at the same time as the top browned. If we really want to dissect this recipe, we should all provide more details on the pan. I think Marie-Louise's experience of faster-than-expected cooking is telling, as is Matthew's suggestion to go to something shallower. Another issue is the type of potato. It seems to me that a medium-moisture potato like the Yukon Gold works best. Heather's red potatoes, which are very high in moisture, didn't absorb much stock -- they were pretty much waterlogged from the start. Seth's russets are so low in moisture that the potato sucks up all the stock, then disintegrates. I could see a place for this dish in my set of regular menus, but I would have to bulletproof it. I like the fact that it's low in fat, which makes it a good choice for menus that already have a lot of tongue-coating triglycerides. Obviously, the quality of your stock will make a huge difference. Matthew's idea of using beef stock also makes it somewhat adaptable. Last note: clean-up on a stock-based gratin beats a dairy-based gratin all to hell. Oops, one more: I wondering about the garlic issue. Seth says he like garlic, but found this harsh. Could this simply be the garlic itself? I've noticed new varieties in the market lately, so we maybe we're at a seasonal change for it? Salad I couldn't find Boston lettuce, so I substituted green leaf, and learned a good lesson about matching greens to dressing. The leaf lettuce is more assertive than Boston, and would have been better with Jacques vinegar dressing, I think. Hacking I'd go with a pair of sturdy scissors that can be disassembled for cleaning (like these). They won't cut through turkey bones, but neither will poultry shears. They're just fine for chicken, and they're only $20. Wusthoff also makes a pair in their GP line that are $30, I think. The poultry shears are considerably more expensive, they'e a pain to clean, and they're always springing open at inappropriate times. OTOH, a Chinese cleaver is cheap, too, but I don't have Fresco's facility with it. For boning breasts, I use a cheap flexible boner or a utility knife, whichever is closer to hand.

Man, you eat early. Or was this a good old Sunday afternoon dinner?

I used Yukon Golds. They worked well, though a red potato -- something with a little more moisture, anyway -- would have been at least as good, if not better.

Done. Like Seth, I'll reserve comment, except to say that it was delicious. I do have some technical issues, and I look forward to discussing them when everyone is ready.

Seth, you say that like it's a bad thing. The gratin is in the oven. All the mise for the main dish is done. I'm going to wait until the gratin has about 20 minutes to go (in my experience, a gratin can sit for a while -- in fact, usually ought to), then start to cook the chicken. While it simmers, I'll wash the lettuce and make the dressing. Sorry, Heather. I hope everything's OK. edit: small circumstances? Emma or Ian?

Update and gross revision: Mrs. Dave just brought me a themometer that read 100.8. We'll be at home after all. So dinner's back to three, though there might be an abstention even from that. And I have an extra chicken. Any suggestions for this windfall?

I'll be doubling the chicken, since it turns out we have seven for dinner. Two problems: I won't be able to start until about 8:15, and I forgot the chives. One advantage: I'll have my brother-in-law as a sous. We used to cook together a lot (did I ever tell you that we invented Iron Chef back in 1978?), but I'd bet he hasn't hacked poultry in 15 years. No estimate, however, on how long it's been since he choked a chicken. Sorry, couldn't resist.

I'd probably have done the same thing. But for the record, it was eight large cloves, peeled.

While I understand, and even appreciate, the concept of the mother sauce, it's not particularly helpful to me. As a home cook, I don't make up large quantities of bechamel or espagnole, or, except occasionally, tomato sauces. What I do have on hand are stocks and milk and eggs and butter. If I need a veloute for a recipe, I make it, but I don't keep it in inventory. Since I can't just pull them from the reach-in or out of a bain maire, the way they're made is more important than their derivation. Which leads to me another way to categorize sauces -- by their preparation method: Roux sauces: bechamel, espagnole, veloute Slurry sauces: mostly cornstarch or arrowroot, but wheat flour, too. This would include a lot of Asian sauces, as well as pie fillings Emulsions: hollandaise and its derivatives, mayonnaise, vinaigrettes, beurre blanc/rouge Reduced/enriched: pan sauces, demi-glace/glace de viande Simmered: tomato sauce, vegetable and meat stocks Am I the only one who thinks of sauces this way?

elyse is so dreamy.

Oops. You're absolutely right. I don't know what I was thinking, as I've made several of these. Still, demi-glace is itself derived from a mother sauce. In fact, some on your list are often made not directly from demi-glace, but by reducing espagnole as part of the recipe. At least that's the way it is in the home kitchen. I have no intention of arguing about an "official" list of mother sauces, as I don't have to pass a test at JWU or face a quiz conducted by a hard-to-please exec. I am just making observations. It shouldn't surprise anyone that things passed down as gospel don't always pass a common-sense test.

Right or wrong, this is how I've always thought of demi-glace and Hollandaise. Not only is demi-glace a derivative of Espagnole, its uses are pretty much limited to using it straight or making glace de viande. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it always seemed like the odd woman out among the other mothers. Of course, no one ever proposed to grade me on my rationalizations!