Dave the Cook

No added fat? That is revisionist. But is it confit? I'm not sure, Archie. She does, however ,give instructions on how to store the rendered fat, so you'll have it around next time you make real confit. (She has a recipe for "homemade margerine" that sounds pretty good. Sorry...back to confit.) I retrieved this definition from the Food TV Encyclopedia (sorry, Lily, I left my Larousse at home): So I think Schneider's recipe, like the one Helenas used in the thread she linked, is baked duck legs. Does Schneider claim that the legs can be stored as if they were non-revisionist confit?

No added fat? That is revisionist. But is it confit?

Oh? Is there any actual evidence that this is the case? I'm not asking this facetiously, I'm actually curious. It wouldn't surprise me too much if moon phases and such turned out have an effect on plant propagation, in a chaotic/sensitive-dependence-on-initial-conditions way. But if that's the case, you will find it nearly impossible to prove.

Do you have any examples, Craig - not which producers, but which practices?

I'm completely new to this stuff, but if you take away the cow's horns and stag bladders, aren't you just talking about plain old organic farming?

Well, here's what's at my local farmer's market: asparagus cabbage yellow squash green beans red leaf lettuce greens: lettuce, arugula, Swiss chard, mizuna and baby collards bell peppers yellow beans I keep coming back to asparagus -- $2 a pound

How 'bout this one, from Ikea?

Me, too.

First, you may have some interest in Dave's brining course That said... in re to duck, it strikes me that duck is fatty enough that brining is usually not required for the meat to stay moist, so there is likely very little to gain. If you are searing the breasts and serving them rare, they will be moist no matter what. If you are making confit with the legs, a lot of the liquid will cook out of them no matter what. Even slow roasted, falling-off-the-bone whole duck has been plenty moist for my taste. I don't see how brining would effect the rendered fat for further use, so no worries there. I have to disagree with Sam on one point. I think duck can benefit from brining, as most of its fat is subcutaneous, rather than intramuscular. If you skin a duck and trim the extraneous fat, even a domestic bird is pretty lean, and wild ducks are exceptionally so. I've brined ducks a couple of times, and I recommend it as an alternative approach for relatively slow methods, e.g. smoking and roasting. Obviously, this is a is a matter of taste. I would not brine for confit, for the reason Sam stated, and I agree that a sear-and-slice technique with the breasts makes brining moot. But if you're roasting or grilling, it's worth a try to see if you like the results. I also support the contention that brining will have no deleterious effect on rendered duck fat. It might be a little salty, but I'm not sure that's a bad thing, either from a taste or a preservation standpoint.

Good idea. I never thought of doing this with the breast alone. Do you use the water trick when you're rendering the rest of the skin for fat? I agree it makes for a very clean result, since the temperature is well controlled.

Fair enough. I've never turned it back up after it's in the oven. I'll try it. I was really only underscoring cheftoad's implication that the skin takes longer than one might think to reach a state of perfection, especially if your reference point is a chicken breast. To come completely clean, I do both sides on the stove top -- skin down, then up -- then put it skin down for the last stretch. The thing is, there's still fat being rendered, so the skin is very well lubricated, and immersion frying is a dry-heat method.

I agree. It takes a surprisingly long time for the breast skin to get really brown and crisp. This method lets you keep heat on the skin while cooking the second side. But I'm confused by the "warm up" after resting. Doesn't that just set the juices off again?

I think I counted 300 books in the cooking stacks at my house. But this thread has exposed innumerable flaws in my collection. Chad: if it helps, be happy that your library has even heard of Jacques Torres. Mine is far more acquainted with the culinary talents of Suzanne Somers, Al Roker (not too awful, actually) and Dom DeLuise.

Sounds easy, right? Edited to add grin, in case anyone thought I might be serious. Oh hell, I did this just last night. Except I used a castrated male duck instead of a female.

I was going by Chad's remark:

To recap, we are cooking more or less the same meal at more or less the same time to: 1) encourage each other that we need more cookbooks 2) encourage each other to buy additional kitchen tools. Did I miss anything? No, that's about it.

Thanks for the wine tip, Chad, and welcome. As long as were here, I'm going to expose my wine ignorance. As I understand it: - Pinot noir is characteristic of Burgundy. - Grenache, syrah, mouvedre and cisnault are characteristic of Cote du Rhone wines. But both are Burgundies, right? Jacques is pretty insistent on a pinot noir for cooking (but then suggests a Cab for drinking). For a braised dish, and in the absence of the sort of specificity that Jacques provides, I would normally use a blend of some sort, and I'd tend towards a fruity version of it, if that's the right way to refer to the grenache-syrah blends from Australia, South America and Spain. Comments? Should I stick to Pinot Noir?

Really??!! Twelve dollars? I was going to say there's no way I'm buying a torch, but for twelve bucks.... Flame on!

Those look identical to me, except for the logos and the fact that the listed dimensions are different. But I can think of a couple of different ways to measure them, so I'm not concerned. For forty bucks, I might spring for real poultry shears. Chef's Choice is a good brand. As for the torch, go to Home Depot. For $12, you can get a decent propane torch. (You can get it on the same trip as theone for the chain saw.) It won't have the fancy stand, but it will make a bigger flame, which, counterintuitively, is more controllable -- and faster. Or, (sigh), use brown sugar, per adoxograph. edit: got the price right the second time

Hmmm . . . which answer do you want?

'cause they flew South two or three weeks ago? Welcome, Priscilla and Varmint!

Word. Maybe Matthew can help us, if not with Burgundy, with an alternative from somewhere else that uses the same grapes. Also ditto on the duck. I had my eye on Julia's Duck Deconstruction (the name of the recipe escapes me). You get a bit of several techniques in there, though come to think of it, roasting might not be one of them. But I'm OK with roasting, too.

I don't know if there's a recipe in J&J, and I know it's a cliche and everything, but how many of us have actually made Creme Brulee? I've done it only once, a number of years ago.

I'm still pursuing my dish-size theory. What did you use? Oh my. I'll have to try this. Works for me, unless we want to pursue Jacques and Jules down the rice path. Yes. This is a very weak area for me.

I'll invoke the holday excuse on the pate. I want to make it, but the end of the year will be better for me -- I'll have a lot more help in consuming it. I'm happy with any of the beef dishes; it's a matter of which techniques we want to cover. I'm more comfortable with stewing and braising than sauteeing, though as I recall, the beef in the bourguignon gets a browning -- always a challenge to get it nice and brown without burning the fond. This doesn't bring us a bit closer to a decision, except to say that I'm with Heather -- I'd like to get some challenging veggie dishes into my portfolio. This sort of argues for the bourguignon, since it leaves time for something fancy while it's simmering.