eatingwitheddie

Not available here unfortunately, though I have seen sausage (lop cheung) that purportedly came from China. My local butcher told me about it and sold it. Haven't tried it. It's supposed to have a different flavor profile than the local stuff. Smithfield ham is a very good substitute. It is typically cooked before using it. To do this: 1) Wash ham well using plenty of water and a brush to remove any exterior mold. 2) Cover the ham with fresh cold water and soak it overnight to remove some extra salt (this is not a necessity, but a good idea) 3) Bring the ham to a boil in fresh water to cover, spoon away any foam which floats to the surface, then simmer gently, replenishing the water so that the ham is alway sugmerged, until tender: for 3-4 hours. Cool and trim before using.

My instincts tell me to make the second one though I have no familiarity myself 2 reasons: 1) The comment about the off taste of rice flour (in the 2nd recipe) strikes me as the sort of comment a knowledgable and sophisticated cook might make. 2) The 2nd recipe uses rice rather than rice flour and makes the problem of which rice flour to use a moot point.

Since my grandparents were Jewish, knowledge of these traditions are a weak link in my Chinese culinary education. As I understand it there are 4 seasonal festivals that coincide with the changing seasons: The Moon Festival and The Dragon-Boat Festival immediately come to mind. During my years in the Chinese restaurant business, when I was affiliated with NY's Shun Lee and with David Keh, our restaurants would close early on these evenings and we would have a large banquet to which we could invite family and friends. The dinner was usually set up as a buffet so that all the employees could enjoy it. However, for many the most exciting part of the evening would take place after dinner when the gambling and drinking games would start. I'd love to hear some more stories about your family's food traditions and about how they celebrated these seasonal festivals.

I recently dined at Bao Noodles (Vietnamese) on 2nd Ave bet 23rd & 22nd Sts. in NYC. The server described a condiment they served as 'homemade' hoisin sauce. It was either a doctored version of a good jarred/tinned product, or if it was homemade, a really good recipe for the 'real' thing. Perhaps you should try contacting them as a starting point in your quest.

Two bogus recipes for sure!

Did you really think burgers are a culinary atrocity? You must be buying that off-brand stuff!

There are a number of uses for catsup in the Chinese kitchen. Sweet & Sour is an obvious use. It is often found in Szechuan dishes like shrimp or lobster with chile sauce ('kan sau'). I also use it as flavoring in a Hunan-style oxtail dish that is a favorite of mine. After it's been braised for 3 hours with star anise and chiles, it is really profoundly transformed. One thing that is interesting to note is that in most cases there are also very good recipes for these same dishes that produce comparable results but omit the catsup. In sweet and sour dishes the red color can come from dried red candies (haw), while kan sau sauces which are flavored with lots of minced ginger, fermented sweet rice and chile paste can have the same flavor profile but with a brown rather than a red color.

Carl's is the real deal - Passyunk (the street in Philly that's home to the cheesesteak) in Manhattan - Pats and Genos and Jims aren't any better. Good job. And as I said in my POP burger post - these burgers are a terrific product too. Can't believe that none of the eGulletteers/burger club folk haven't been or commented yet - amazing!

Jacks is a great old-time classic American restaurant that's been in continuous business for most of the 20th C. You don't go for great food per se - just appreciate it for what it is. I have always found the cooking to be from reasonable to pretty good or better. The kind of place where a hunk of prime rib or piece of fresh fish and some raw oysters would be smart choices.

Two freshly cooked burgers, rare, char-grilled, 1" thick, very beefy, fresh brioche rolls, good sauce, nice box, five bucks. Damn good. All day - most of the night - 9th Av bet 14/15th St.

The chicken and the oven stuffer sound cute and tasty - but what's up with those dumplins'?

NORTHERN STYLE DUMPLING FILLING (Pork - Fried, Steamed or Boiled) This is the sort of recipe we would use in a restaurant. It has most of the same ingredients as other recipes just with a few nuances such as a little water added (juicier), fresh waterchestnuts (adds crunch/texture), corntarch and egg white (to hold verything together well), and a good jolt of ginger and scallion (to make it tasty). I haven't measured everything out so you may need to make a few adjustments - just make sure to make a sample dumpling so you can test and adjust the flavorings. By the way, I'm not reluctant to start with pork pieces and trimmings and hand chop this sort of filling 1/2 lb. coarsely ground pork 1/4 lb. coarsely ground pork, fat and lean mixed 1 generous tablespoon minced ginger 1/2 cup finely chopped scallions 1/2 cup finely chopped Napa cabbage 4 dried black mushrooms, soaked, water pressed out, then finely chopped 4 fresh water chestnuts, peeled, washed, flattened with the side of a cleaver and chopped into rice shaped pieces (canned work fine) 2 T soy sauce (I would use Kikkoman) 1 T shaoshing rice wine or dry sherry salt (generous amount) 1-2 teaspoons 1 t sugar 1/2 t finely ground white pepper 1/2 t MSG (opt) 1/4 cup water 1 egg white 2 T cornstarch 1 T sesame oil Procedure: Put all the ingredients in a large mixing bowl and using a wooden spoon vigorously stir the filling in the same circular direction for about 5 minutes. This mixing is very important and gives the filling its distinctive texture. When possible I like to prepare the filling a couple of hours ahead so the flavors have a chance to mingle. Test the filling: Fill one skin with a generous tablespoon of the mixture, seal the dumpling and boil gently until it floats and is cooked through: about 3-4 minutes. Remove, let it cool briefly, and taste the filling for seasoning: you may want to add more salt, soy, ginger or scallion. Form and cook the dumplings as desired. Yield: 3 dozen (or a few more)

A local (Brooklyn/4th Ave) Chinese take-out joint oriented towards a particular market segment features halal meats and of course no pork. They named themselves: No Pork Long Life Restaurant. A competitior opened and chose an amusingiy similar but different name: No Pork Long Line Restaurant!

I can appreciate your annoyance. The fact is I thought long and hard before posting this topic. Nevertheless in the end I would argue that this is very simply a reporting of the facts concerning these areas. It is really no different than other assimilative experiences that have been experienced by any of our country's varied ethnic groups. In fact it is a behavior associated with an incredibly industrious and successful story: this country's ubiquitous Chinese restaurant prescence is extraordinary. I actually think it would be a pity to forget about this larger and exciting context.

Over the years I have perused thousands of English language Chinese menus. It has long been a favorite amusement to take special note of incorrect spellings, typos, improperly written words, and dishes that have been creatively translated or often mistranslated. Just yesterday, at the 46 year-old Golden Gate Restaurant in Riverdale NY, I ran across the inscrutably named 'Hit Pot' Steak, as well as 'Special International' Soup. Then there was the dim sum restaurant whose proof reader failed at editing out the 25 different 'dumb sam' items. I'd love to hear your stories and experiences in this area. What are the funniest, silliest, most memorable things you've encountered on a Chinese restaurant menu?

What are joong?

DITTO Mitchel and I worked together in the late 80's and I have been enjoying his inspired cooking and his charming crumgeonly demeanor ever since. His pancakes are just the best. In fact, when the topic has come up I've always maintained that it is difficult to understand how pancakes in general could be THAT good. If you think he is guarding the dining room like a hawk (I would never bet that there will ever be really good service there), you should see how he guards that recipe! As Michelin would say - ***- 'worth going WAY out of your for.'

I love Shredded Pork and Szechuan Pickled Vegetable Soup, Peking Duck, Soup Dumplings, Frogs Legs with Ginkgo Nuts and sooo..... many other dishes. Live for esoteric and delicious Chinese banquets. But I'm not ashamed to admit that I like Chicken Chow Mein too. I didn't eat it as a kid too often. I usually went for egg rolls, spare ribs, lobsters (when mom and dad were feeling flush), and when it was chow mein time, if I ordered it, it was subgum style - which was really more like diced chicken with almonds than chow mein. As an adult I cook compulsively, frequently having guests over for elaborate Chinese dinners. I might make spicy wontons, steamed fish, oxtail, scallops with egg white etc. But then, every once and a while, I slip in some homemade chicken chow mein. It has freshly poached chicken, good stock, lots of fresh onion and celery, beansprouts and homemade crispy noodles. I love the flavor of the sauce when all the vegetable juices mingle with the stock - good stuff, not authentic, but delicious nonetheless. What's your take on chow mein? Chow mein stories anyone?

Great post! Thanks

In North America: 1) Banquets cooked by T.T. Wang chef/owner of the Shun Lee Restaurants. 2) Banquets cooked by Lo Huey Yuen - great Szechuan masterchef. 3) The pan-fried dumplings served at NYC's Pig Heaven in the early/mid 80's: prepared by Madame Chiang's private dumpling chefs. 4) Sun Sai Wah Restaurant in Vancouver. 5) Hong Kong Flower Lounge in Burlingame near SF airport. Some of the many!

I posted a similar and apparently provocative question (5 top restaurants in US) a while ago and the thread won't die. For good reason apparently: it's one of the ultimate and basic questions that is close to all our hearts: what is the best? Well, rather than talk about where is the Chinese food better, in Kuala Lampoor or Singapore, I think we should talk about the best Chinese restaurants/meals/foods we have had. Period. Which ones they were, what we ate, why it was so good, and of course where we had them.

Sorry for quoting myself and then commenting on it but I have another thought on this topic. If we were to set up a teaching syllabus for a class on Chinese sauces one of the first things that I would talk about is how many different sauces are prepared form the same or similar sets of ingredients. One of the important things that differentiates one from another is the proportion and presence or absence of sugar and vinegar. In fact it is frequently the amount and proportions of these two things that alter a dish's flavor profile. The point here is that Sweet & Sour falls into the same category as all the other sauces, it just has relatively more sugar and vinegar and less soy and wine. Looked at from that perspective, it seems to be a sauce that logically falls into the spectrum of authentic Chinese sauces, though admittedly it is all the way to one side. It is a flavor that is a degree or two more familiar to the western palate and therefore one that was most easily assimilated and eventually adapted (some might say corrupted).

It may be popular to to denegrate Sweet & Sour (and its variations) as western oriented/Americanized Chinese food, which it has of course become. But it significant and important to note that Sweet & Sour is authentic Chinese food that can also be beautifully and deliciously prepared. In fact when I encounter a really great master chef and preorder a banquet I might go out of my way to see if any sweet & sour dishes are included in his repetoire. Squirrel Fish with Pine Nuts, Pork with Fresh Lychee, Spare Rib Tips Braised w Sugar and Black Vinegar are just a few items that I would be excited to eat. And it's absolutely true that most Sweet & Sour Pork, Lemon Chicken etc. stinks. Doesn't have to be that way - the Sweet & Sour Pork in my house kicks butt.

Wesza- It sounds from your post like you are may have been involved in the NYC Chinese restaurant community, as I was. My knowledge of that period is strong and while I don't know everything I do have different memories than those you have expressed. To my recollection the Hunan restaurants of the upper west side date to the mid and late 70's. Hunam located on 2nd Ave and Uncle Tai's at 1059 Third Ave. were in fact the first Hunan-style restaurants in NYC and in North America for that matter. They opened in the end of 1972 and the start of '73. They were inspired by a trend in Taipei where the well respected Chef Peng opened a very popular Hunanese restaurant a few years earlier. He eventually wound up in NYC as well (on east 44th St.). The menus of these restaurants were filled with specialties 'never before served in NYC' as the ads read, and featured items that Chef Peng had popularized in Taipei. Dishes like Lake Tung Ting Shrimp (brocolli & egg white), Vegetable Pie (mock Peking Duck), Tung-an Chicken, Honey Ham w Dates, Homemade Pock-marked Beancurd (Chef Peng's Beancurd), were truly exciting to experience. The restaurants along upper Broadway, which were centered in the 90's (street numbers), Hunan Cottage, Harbin Inn, The Great Shangahi, Eastern Garden, The Pomegranate Garden, Chuan Hong, Shanghai Cafe, Szechuan, were just some of the names, constituted an exciting and resaonably authentic food experience. While a number of the Northern and Shanghai restaurants predate the early 70s, the Hunanese restaurants all date from '75/'76 or later, some years after Hunam & Uncle Tai's. As for authentic Szechuan restaurants and chefs. The Chinese government did send teams of chefs to NY, but again this was years AFTER this cuisine hit the streets. Szechuan Pavillion (1975/6?) was the Manhattan restaurant that was famous for having a mainland kitchen crew. By the way, on the occaisions I dined there, I never thought the food was of the same quality as that of the best chef's at NY's top woks. I for one, had no trouble finding excellent professional chefs who knew and specialized in great Szechuan restaurant and banquet cooking. The Four Seas, one of the earliest players, was located in the Wall Street area, and was first reviewed in The Times in (I would guess) 1966. It's chef, Lo Huey Yen (Uncle Lou) was one of the great Szechuan chefs of his generation, not just in the states, but worldwide. He was the family chef to the preminent 20th century Chinese painter Chang Ta-Chien. A year or so later he formed a partnership with Robert Chow and the recently deceased David Keh and opened Szechuan Taste on a corner in NY's Chinatown. I believe this to be the first dedicated Szechuan restaurant in the US. It was followed a year or two later (1969) by Szechuan at 95th & Broadway. Another great chef, 'shorty' Tang ran the kitchen there. He prepared very clean and highly authentic Szechuan food. Tragically Chef Tang passed away not long after that, but his family opened Hwa Yuan Szechuan at 30 East Broadway which became a mecca for Szechuan food fans. Generations grew up on their spicy cold noodles and carp braised in hot bean sauce. This was an era of fine classic authentic cooking, prepared by chefs trained in China who had learned pre-1949. In those times one could staff a kitchen with elite, highly trained professionals, something that became much more difficult just a few years later as the seasoned chefs grew too old and as the industry expanded and its labor pool became dilute and spread thin.

I think there is some important information that has been left out of this thread. While it is true that the immigration to North America (and especially Canada) over the last 10 years has led to an elevation in demand for and availability of fine Chinese cooking, it is also significant to understand that top Chinese chefs started leaving the mainland to practice their craft in the late 40's and early 50's, when political power shifted in mainland China and such bourgeois practices were politically unacceptable. In the late 60's and early 70's there was an increased North American awareness of what constituted excellent and authentic Chinese cooking. This was a period when one COULD find terrific Szechuan and Hunan restaurants in NY for example, and if one looked, there were also authentic and good Shanghai, Fukien and Hakka restaurants as well. In those days the 'dai see foo' (master chefs) had been trained on the mainland during pre-revolutionary times. If you sought out these individuals, you could access world class Chinese banquet cooking. During the late 70's and 80's as the industry expanded it also declined in quality. Many of the mid-level chefs, who some years earlier might have required more years of seasoning before rising to the top, were now able to go out and open businesses of their own: better to have a little take-out shop then be #3 saute cook in a larger kitchen. Chefs who learned to cook during this era, unless they were trained in top HK or Taiwanese establishments, may have found it difficult to be exposed to or practice the highest culinary standards. As we got into the late 80's and 90's and economic conditions in HK & Taiwan improved so did demand for 'cusine.' This is true of the mainland as well. Finally we have seen an era that has engendered culinary growth. Demand for innovation and quality has increased as the world has become a smaller place. In some cases western foods and ideas have been incorporated into Chinese cooking but this assimilation has taken effect without dliluting the cuisine but by adding to it. A few years ago while doing a project for the Hong Kong Tourist Association I came across a dish entitled Strawberry Pork. Essentially it was an authentic and new fangled version of Sweet & Sour Pork using a fresh strawberry puree as a base. A good example of the growth and to my mind 'health' of new Hong Kong cooking. Currently we have an enormous number of Fukienese immigrants. Their prescence in NY's Chinatown and is pervasive and is just starting to be felt by the NYC community as a whole.