MikeTMD

You own a great book! I am puzzled, though - are you trying to say that E.Coli and Salmonella are not there, or that those microorganism are not dangerous?

Jason, Thank you for repeating my point. As far FoodSaver is concerned, I am not saying FS in unsafe, I am saying IMPROPER VACUUM IS UNSAFE, no matter what kind of equipment was used. Needless to say, a machine with less power would leave more air in the cooking bag, which is not advisable, primarily because of the risk of bag rupture/bacterial contamination.

I did read it. Proper vacuum would minimize (but not eliminate) the risk of bacterial contamination, BTW.

Yes, check your FoodSaver manual, it'd would tell you the pressure range for your particular model. A good indicator is freezer burns: if you see them - there is no vacuum.

The pressure in a properly sealed vacuum bag is always less than the atmospheric pressure, that's just basic physics and the definition of vacuum. However, in SV our objective is not to depressurize a cooking bag, but rather to remove air/oxygen. The reason is to prevent aerobic microorganisms ( i.e. the ones that need air to function) from multiplying, and thus spoiling the food. The drawback is that anaerobic flora (microorganisms that can only live without oxygen) would flourish, so we have to cook things relatively quickly ( e.g. fish), or for an extended period of time (e.g. meat), because the SV cooking temps are relatively low, and it takes a lot longer to kill harmful anaerobic bacteria ( it's similar to canning/preserving, which is also cooking under vacuum, BTW) Microorganisms are native to food products, for example - Salmonella is associated with chicken/poultry, E. Coli contaminates beef, etc. Boiling would kill most of those "bugs", but in SV we typically don't get into the boiling water temps (100C), so the solution is to remove ALL air and ALL oxygen ( 19-21% of air content), and pretty much "choke" the harmful microorganisms to death. FoodSaver wouldn't create the full vacuum, and the FS seal is somewhat weak, which is why it's too risky to use it for SV cooking. Where did you see a vacuum chamber machine for $1000? I want it! Proper equipment is any device/devices that would create full vacuum, support the vacuum seal, maintain constant temperature and circulation. Water bath is just as good as any immersion circulator, steamers would work as well as autoclaves. If a SV vacuum bag leaks - I am not serving whatever we cooked in it. Hopefully, you understand why. My next project is to SV shellfish. Suggestions, please!

OK, allow me to retort... Vacuum is not required in SV cooking. And, ice is not required for ice skating. :-) My dear pounce, saying something over and over doesn't make it right, no matter how many times you've repeated it. Would you please explain to us WHY vacuum in SV doesn't matter? And, what other gas besides oxygen are you trying to remove from your cooking bag? Again, vacuum (the "vide") in Sous-vide is essential. You need to remove oxygen to prevent food from spoiling, changing color and more than anything - preserving taste. Some cooks are able to fill their bags with non-reactive gas, but that goes well beyond home and restaurant cooking, and remains the prerogative of industrial production. As far as sealing/cooking in plastic wrap: if you don't have a seal, and soak meat in warm water for hours at a time - you will have achieved a successful bacterial multiplication. Enjoy your adventure in food poisoning! If you are cooking fish, yes - the time/bacterial load are not large enough to develop, but shellfish may be a different story, and meat will spoil in just a few hours. You use a sealer yourself, so why are you trying to argue the seal issue? FYI, I don't own a vacuum chamber - the least expensive unit I saw was $1900 - well beyond of what I am willing to spend right now, but I will invest in one of those some day, mostly for cured meat/sausage making, as well as SV. Temperature issue comes down to what kind of consistency you are trying to achieve: it may be more important in a restaurant set-up, than at home. We are all here to learn form each other, and any information is important, and any opinion is welcome. It's not about who is better, but how to do the best we can. That having been said, one needs a proper wok and sufficient heat to stir fry, exact measurements for baking, and the right equipment to SV. Don't you agree? I don't want to end up in the proverbial land where any poaching is called "sous-vide", but rather aim to preserve and develop the art of that approach to cooking. Some may disagree... Well, those same people would most likely mix powdered wasabi with soy sauce and pour it over overcooked fish and call it a great sushi experience. I just hope it's not you.

You don't need full vacuum. You just want to remove the air or other gas. It's not required. Things still cook with air in them. You do want a seal, but it's been proven up thread that wrapping some fish or similar in plastic wrap or slipped in a ziplock works too. Only a few thing things and approaches are sensitive to 1-2 degree fluctuations. Short cooking times and tricky things like eggs etc. Circulation is good, but constant circulation is not needed. If your item is at temp and your bath is insulated or otherwise does not dramatically drop in temp in blocks of time there isn't a need for circulation. It can be switched on and off. Circulation is good for short times or when trying to bring an item to temp as fast as possible. Yes, constant circulation can help in keeping all outside surfaces of the item in the bath at relatively the same temp. Out of curiosity, have you tried using methods other than lab equipment? I don't want people to think they cant get good results with "over the counter" products. I own both lab and non-lab equipment and have tested both. A PID like the auber unit *will* get you the exact or very close to the same results as a lab unit if you pick a good heat source and are creative with circulation. If it sounds like I am calling you out a little... it's because I am ← Very well, then. Your challenge is accepted. First, and foremost: vacuum in SV is essential. The whole point of SV cooking is to eliminate oxygen, and, as such prevent reaction of oxidation, which dramatically affects color (esp. when you are cooking veggies) and taste ( esp. when you are dealing with fatty proteins). But, good luck cooking fish wrapped in plastic... Also, you absolutely do need a seal - paramount concern here is to prevent bacteria-rich cooking liquid from getting into your vacuum bag, especially if you are cooking for an extended period of time. Second point is temperature. If I may, this is an exact quote Roca/Brugues (those two fellas kindda know what they are talking about, it seems like... ): "... the power comes from the vacuum, but the control lies in a mastery of time and temperature-this is what leads to the prime objective, precise cooking values for each ingredient." ( "Sous-Vide Cuisine", Montagud Editores, 2007, p. 86) The idea here is precision. If you allow cooking temps to fluctuate, at some point the internal temp is going to get away from you desired range - imagine rocking a boat: if you did it, would you be able to stop it at once? If memory serves right, nathanm made a similar observation in his early posts. Third point is circulation. If your water doesn't circulate, then you are going to have different temps in different areas of your cooking vessel, which brings me back to the point of precision. Here is another quote: '... maximum variation of + 1C/1.8F, which is an acceptable margin for sous-vide cooking." ( "Sous-Vide Cuisine", Montagud Editores, 2007, p. 95) Much like I said, Roca/Bruges know and understand the SV process well. Wish it was the case with you, my dear pounce and e_monster... FYI, I did try methods "other than lab equipment", from poaching in oil to autoclaves. I am not saying there is only one answer, but rather suggest to do things right, or not at all.

No, but it is not relevant. I am not saying that I get identical performance to lab equipment (as I mentioned in my earlier post). I am simply saying that I get very good performance and can cook delectable food. Not everyone can afford to have the absolute best equipment -- but one does not need the absolute best to get great results. ← The issue here is not the best equipment, but the RIGHT equipment. You need full vacuum, constant temperature (even 1-2 degree fluctuation makes a difference) and constant circulation. Otherwise, results are simply not the same - in my experience, anyway.

Duly noted, but have you compared that PID device and a circulator side-by-side?

Mallet, if I may: you are not going to achieve constant temperature and water circulation with a home made device - my suggestion is to invest into a proper immersion circulator, otherwise you'd be waisting your time and money.

I used two 8 oz. Flat Iron steaks, cut in two 4 oz pc. just before plating. Akaushi beef is outrageously expensive, indeed. The steaks were very well marbled, meat was somewhat darker in color, but very tender, with almost a touch of game taste to it. I still prefer American Wagyu/Kobe - that buttery fat flavor .... ahhh-hhhh , how can you beat that?

Hello, Everyone! I am so excited to tell you about "Olivier Roellinger's Contemporary French Cuisine". Isn't she gorgeous to look at? Well, before going any further... Do you ever drive you car and imagine yourself flying a plane? Do you ever use professional slang of those who work the job you always wanted to have? Are you familiar with the feeling of an emerging romance? Or do you, perhaps, enjoy the closeness and affection of someone, and can't get enough of it, no matter how much time has gone by since your first date, or since your last touch? If you gave a positive answer to any of these questions - this book is for you, my Dear Friend. OR's book is quite unique in many ways. More than anything else, it's a book written by someone who seeks to merge two seemingly unrelated, but extreme passions. The author is all about his food, and equally is all about his love for sailing in the open sea. In fact, they apply sailing lingo to ingredients, as well as prep and cooking techniques. How is that for unique? Or, don't some of us borrow a word or two from pilots and air traffic controllers, while sitting at a red light? I do... Also, most cookbooks are written "around" service (e.g. amuse-bouche, starters, main courses, etc.), or even more often about main food groups - produce, fish, meat and so on, so forth. Not this book - every chapter is about ... drums, please ... spices! Have you ever read a "Pepper" or a "Turmeric" chapter? You will when you dive into OR's writing. Wait, I just used a marine term... Is it rubbing off on me already? It's hardly surprising... Curiously enough, this book is full of pictures, but the photography is that of the open sea and food still-life - there isn't one picture of a plated item of any kind. Instead, there are black and white plating diagrams with detailed legends. Interesting. Overall, I would rate this book as "Very Good/Highly Recommended". It deserves it. On a personal note: the object of my affection is not anywhere near me right now, but thinking of her inspired this review. Wish she was here to taste the food…

No, the dishes on flickr were made well before I got the book. "Steak and Potatoes" is an original recipe - I just wanted "to go the distance" on that one, as such both the ingredients and the technique are the best I could possibly imagine. Interestingly enough, the "anchor" point of the "S & P" was fresh wasabi in the potatoes, rather than the beef or truffles in the sauce. Anyway, beef was poached S-V @ 145F for 90 minutes to perfect medium rare and seared in clarified butter. Lobster & Pommes is my interpretation of the French Laundry recipe, with Warm Water Lobster Tail poached S-V @45C for 15 minutes, with galangal, ginger, lemon grass and Sechuan peppercorns. My suggestion would be to increase temperature to 48C (and may be a bit more for higher elevations), and serve a medallion of lobster rather than the whole tail. Noteworthy, most people in my part of the US would probably prefer lobster on the well-done side, but that may not be well received in UK, Europe or Asia. Also, I don't know if one absolutely needs butter for S-V poached shellfish, but it may be worth a try. I envy your industrial strength vacuum machine - those are Ouch!-like expensive in my "hood"! Let me know if you have a preference of what you'd like to S-V, and I'll check the book recipes for you, otherwise you may be better off investing your money into something else. Good luck in your S-V and other cooking endeavors! MT

Well, S-V is anything, but cheap. That having been said, I paid $190 fot the immersion circulator, which is a must, and almost as much for the book. Most folks would have to spend about $1000, which makes spending $120 for the "manual" more or less reasonable. Bottom line: it's a good book, but not necessarily a great investment.

I don't know if this book posseses as much authority on the subject as it claims to have. I can't wait for Thomas Keller and his book on S-V!

Hello, my Dear Foodies! Let's chat about Joan Roca and Salvador Brugués’ Sous-Vide book now. I bought mine from Le Sanctuaire (http://le-sanctuaire.com/) - $157 + S&H was the lowest price I could find online. With that - why are cookbooks from Spain are so outrageously expensive??? Is it a profit center for Spanish chefs and/or publishers, or is it because of the high cost of printing in Europe? I am not certain... Anyway, the book is a masterpiece of printing - superb quality, great paper, excellent design, it even has a protective cover! (I guess one can expect all of that for the price paid...) As far as content... Well, I have a few things to say. Three major chapters in the book are about "S-V preservation", "S-V cooking" and "S-V cuisine", respectively. I am not sure if it makes more sense in Spanish, but how do we separate "Cooking" and "Cuisine"? Is there a difference, or is it me? At any rate, the very language of the book, or rather it's translation into English does not quite reach a satisfactory grade, as far as I am concerned. It seems like it takes an extra effort to figure out what they really mean ... I wish the message was clear. It is quite interesting how Spanish chefs perceive S-V technique as on of the methods of preserving food, whereas in the US we are concerned about S-V shortcomings in the very area of food safety. Also, it gives you an idea of what a great difference there is between running a restaurant in Europe and the US, some points appeared almost humorous to me, especially as far as staff training is concerned. S-V cooking is classified by the authors as "Direct" and "Indirect", and again - it probably is simply about translation, but they see "Direct" as cooking for service or immediate use, whereas "Indirect" is described as cooking for later use, with storage and reheating prior to service. I don't know.... it just doesn't sit well with me, may be because my own mind is locked on Direct Heat and Indirect Heat type of distinction. Please, correct me, if you feel different. S-V recipes in the book are very good! However, it seems like Roca and Brugués’ approach is heavily influenced by the "Map" strategy of Ferran Adria's, and perhaps for good reasons. I just don't think that little symbols suggested by the authors are necessary, or add any value to otherwise solid recipes. And that's not all - measurements in the book are adopted for cups and ounces, but the numeric values thereof are not quite traditional ( e.g. a recipe may call for 1/5 cup, or 8 4/5 oz.) - not the easiest thing to understand or convert, at the very least for yours truly. Absolutely the biggest drawback of the book to me is complete absence of shellfish recipes, which - confession time! - is the biggest reason why I wanted a S-V book in the first place. Oh, well... Overall, I would give this book a Satisfactory/Recommended rating, but again - is it worth $160? I am still torn about that...

Hello, Everyone! Finally, after many months, if not years of waiting I was able to put my hands on a "real deal" immersion circulator, as well as - call me crazy! - "Sous-vide" book by Joan Roca and Salvador Brugués. Let me share a few observations, and also give you a review of the said book. Well, let's talk cooking first. This Christmas I had a chance to make a few things for a festive dinner, including an original recipe we called "Steak and Potatoes": Akaushi Heritage Beef (see http:www.heartbrandbeef.com) cooked “sous-vide”, Fresh Wasabi Mashed Potatoes, Périgueux Sauce You can see it on Flickr: http://flickr.com/photos/22220907@N08/2139716390/, and I'll try to attach a picture here: Akaushi beef itself deserves a discussion, for now here how it was cooked: original vacuum packaging ( just the way it came form the meat cutter) - 145F poach for 90+ minutes - seasoned after poaching with Long Balinese Pepper and Grains of Paradise - quick sear in clarified butter - Périgueux Sauce - presentation and serving. Steak was cooked to perfect medium rare and surprisingly well seasoned, texture was somewhat similar to that of cooked veal tongue, but softer and jucier, so overall this dish was a success. Few observations: - I will not rely on meat cutter's vacuum packaging ever again - it's unadequate ( one of the bags was leaking from the get go - I ended up eating that steak myself). - seasoning after poaching gives you - surprisingly! - more control, and doesn't overpower the original beef flavor, but rather compliments it very well. - searing is mandatory! (well ... for North American taste, anyway) Clarified butter is the way to go, in my opinion. - Temperature: why cook at higher temps? I don't see one good reason ... Cook and HOLD it at the temperature you want - you won't overcook your meat, which one of the reasons for "sous-vide" anyway, and you don't have to watch the clock. Finally, if your vacuum packaging is not good enough - double bag it! I still prefer and industrial strength Cryovac/Multivac, but who has those at home? I ended up going to a local Mom&Pap butcher - for $1 per bag ... ohhh-hhh what a bargain! Next time I'll cook foie, as per the Sous Vide Bible. You'll be the first to hear the results - it's a promise!