Wilfrid

Hey, now. I think Cabby's dined out enough to have an opinion, even if it's regarded as wrong. Don't start to sound like Plotters, please.

I'm just surprised some people seem to hate Ducasse's cooking so vehemently. I have eaten it only once, and while it may have lacked some qualities mentioned above, it clearly rose to the level of very good indeed. And I am stunned by the implication that the cooking at Blue Hill (which I like well enough) is better. What motivates the contempt? Is anyone prepared to say that Ducasse's restaurants offer bad food?

Happily, I'm all set to go next week. I am going to check some guide books at the weekend. Anil: I am reasonably familiar with the main indigenous dishes, but if you have any tips about good places to try them, that would be most welcome. I am going to try to fit in one high end dinner, so suggestions for that would be helpful too. Although I should be able to figure out the options from the guide books. Not going for long, sadly, so this won't be an in depth experience of Brazilian cuisine.

Thanks, Sandra, I had no idea what it was called. I was sad to see it go; you had to feel sorry for it when it was surrounded by all those big, gleaming monuments to Disney.

I feel sorry for all those chefs who volunteered to sign Steve's statement that red wine is the right thing to drink with steak, only to be summarily dismissed when the subject turned to Ducasse's cooking.

Limit on space? How about a limit on number of tastings that can be accomplished on one occasion? If everyone brought, say, six samples, that's one hundred and twenty varied mouthfuls. I am starting to feel slightly queasy.

I was lucky enough to have known that scruffy little hot dog parlour just around the corner from Times Square on the north side of 42nd. Looked like it hadn't been redorcated (or swept out) since about 1947. Amazing. And the fairly awful hotdogs were about 20 cents each. A time machine.

David Waltuck. Seafood sausage. John Villa. Suckling pig. Keen's. Mutton chop. Fresh. Halibut cheek and foie gras. Apparently. Has it occurred to anyone else, reading through this thread, that what we are demonstrating is that there is nothing particularly special or uncommon about signature dishes? I don't know if the majority of well-known chefs/restaurants have them, but a sizeable minority certainly do, at different levels of dining too. My examples above are intended to illustrate the point.

Well, I certainly can't verify the claim that Escoffier created thousands, in addition to codifying what already existed, but he invented a good number. I strongly recomment 'Sole Alice', which is not beyond the abilities of an average home cook.

It's a shame there isn't a branch of All Bar One in New York. Fat Bloke must be heartbroken at having to omit that menu. (Sorry, it was the relentless taunting that sparked me off...)

If the menus in the book are not the same as those available in the restaurants, I for one shall be expecting a refund.

Yes, and Richard Corrigan is known for it as well. Anyone fancy Gary Rhodes's foie gras-stuffed faggots, which pre-dated the dB burger somewhat?

Okay, my fault. I just read the rest of the Arpege thread, and now I see why we're doing this. Marco used to actually give dates of creation for his sig. dishes (in his opinion) on his menu. The scallops "black tie" dates from his Harvey's days and was much talked about in its day. Just to be clear, I think it's a little silly that butterflied grilled chicken should be regarded as a sig.dish, and the same goes for lamb shank. But that's the kind of thing people think of. What's really at stake, I think, is whether any of the dishes we are listing as sig. dishes today will endure in terms either of actually staying on menus or remaining a discernible influence on other dishes. That calls for some soaring speculation!

Careme would have been a better example than Escoffier. Escoffier is credited with creating several thousand dishes, and a number of the do still turn up on menus. I don't think anyone eats Careme's food any more, but his influence on restaurant history and gastronomy has been adequately documented on other threads here.

Hmm. Like the idea, like the date, can't think of what to bring. Has someone got cheese already? A specific cheese vertical might involve a series of "cheddars", for example.

ANd we have all surely (surely) eaten fish custards in Japanese restaurants. Yes, I've been arguing for months on this site that even quite strongly held views are subject to change. The recognition of Moby Dick as a masterpiece has been my favorite example. I might observe that some fundamental principles of science get revised from time to time. None of which means that, within a certain timebound critical context, judgments of taste, aesthetics, ethics, as well as judgments in the hard sciences, are not possible. Oh, forget it Glyn, I just remembered you're a Feyerabend admirer. I am wasting my time.

Steve, you hadn't heard of Marco Pierre White's scallops with black truffles, or it didn't count? What about Jonathan Waxman's grilled chicken and fries? Fernand Point's gratin d'ecrevisses. I don't like this game. It's just a memory test. Someone think of a different game. (Gee whatever happened to the rule about if you don't like a thread just move on? I know, I know. But this is almost interesting. Something's missing.)

Hehehe. Busy In Box, Fat Bloke?

Oh good, now we have a list typed up, I can just edit it France UK Republic of Ireland Germany Holland Italy Belgium Austria Spain Canada US Thailand Singapore Australia Dominican Republic Portugal Turkey I wish I'd had Jaybee's help when I was trying to list all the countries I'd visited in the last ten years for the INS earlier this week. Edit: Dammit, forgot a continent. Tunisia Morocco

If anyone wants to help me finish packing up about a dozen crates of old files to make some space in my office, let me know. There's also some home decorating opportunities available.

Not so fast, let's see what "conclusions" he purports to reach.

McHale's was never anywhere near the top of the Most Disgusting list, even for midtown. You have to cross the street to Smith's for that. McHale's is disappointingly spick and span in comparison.

Why has no-one mentioned a good rose? A Tavel, or one of the less oaky Spanish ones, for example. Acidity, but a touch of sweetness too.

I will eat some pot noodles as a punishment. Seriously, I rarely cook or order this fish. It came out kind of sweet and creamy. It was okay.

Yes, 'e's up to something, isn't 'e? I got my eye on 'im.