Felonius

This thread has peaked my interest, because I've never thought of breakfast as being a big part of NYC culture. I'm originally from the South, where breakfasts play an important role (or at least they used to) in our culinary tradition. I don't know, but suspect this may have something to do with the rural/agrarian nature of Southern history - people working on farms need to start the day early with some quality fuel to burn. Grits, bacon and ham from the smokehouse, homemade sausage and scrapple, fried tomatoes, fresh biscuits with pan gravy, cornmeal and buttermilk pancakes, homemade jams, egg casseroles, etc. may seem simple fare, but many Southerners take great pride in the quality of their execution. I have seen family feuds over biscuit and pancake recipes. And then there are low-country classics like shrimp and grits and Sunday after-church specialties like egg and cheese soufflee...... So back to NYC..... Other than bagels, Sunday brunches, and the ubiquitous breakfast carts, is breakfast really considered a big deal in NYC? Have I been missing out? What is this "mythical" New York breakfast talked about in London? Honestly, I have had a hard time finding a decent place even open for breakfast on the UWS on weekdays (other than Barney Greengrass). I also find it interesting that on weekends people will stand in block-long lines to get a seat at "Good Enough to Eat". I've eaten there many times and agree that while the pancakes and sausage aren't bad, they're hardly worth waiting in line for IMHOP. Thanks Steven for your outline of so many NYC breakfast categories. You're killing me with the "Uptown girly breakfast" category. Well put! As a bonafide New Yorker, what would you consider the classic New York breakast? Barney Greengrass? Katz's? (are they really open for breakfast?, if so I've gotta go) A Greek diner? I've always thought of Manhattan breakfast as a bagel and a cup of coffee, eaten while walking to the Subway. As my Southern grandmother used to say with a sly smile whenever there was no place to sit and we had to eat somewhere standing up, "Isn't this fun kids, we're eating New York Style!".

Bummer. I was really excited about trying ADNY with Delouvrier at the helm, but alas it was not to be. Neither he nor Doug Psaltis lasted long as chefs de cuisine in this organization. Both are unique and incredibly talented folks in my humble opinion. Is Ducasse overreacting to bad reviews? Should he have stayed the course a bit longer?

Another great thread! I finally got down to Tehuitzingo's Deli for the first time today. The tacos are the best I've had in NYC no doubt. I like the way the meat is cooked down with crispy bits in it. I tried the Enchilada, Bisteck and Carnitas tacos and would rank them in that order in terms of my personal preference. The green and red salsas are also quite good. I brought home a copy of the menu and here's a list of all the types of tacos on offer there: Beef (Bisteck) Spicy Pork (Enchilada) Sausage w/Potato (Chorizo) Chicken (Pollo) Rice w/ Eggs (Arroz con Huevo) Salted Beef (Cecina) Goat Meat (Barbacoa) Beef Tongue (Lengua) Goat Tripe (Sangre) Pork Skin (Chicharron) Potatoes w/Jalapeno (Papas con Rajas) Rice w/ Chicken (Arroz con Pollo) Pork (Carnitas) Beef Belly (Suadereo) I spoke with a Mexican who is a regular and he recommended I try the Beef Tongue tacos next time. He said his other favorite taco joint in New York is a truck usually parked somewhere in Queens near 90th St. and Roosevelt Blvd. Has anyone tried it? I have a feeling Tehuitzingo's will be added to my list of regular must eats. There is also a nice park just east of 10th Ave. on 48th, where you can take your tacos to go and enjoy a nice spot outdoors. Three tasty tacos for $6.00 and a seat in that park on a Spring day provided the most satisfying lunch I've had in a long time. Thanks jogoode for posting about this place!

After six months of regular stops at CG, I have to agree with Ewindels. I love the food but could do without the atmosphere. I paid my first visit there for brunch this weekend. I ordered the steak and eggs. The steak was a flatiron cut with a rather cloying sweet brown sauce, overwhelmed by what I'd guess was Chinese 5 spice. It was accompanied by garden variety scrambled eggs and something that I'd describe as a cross between cornbread and brioche toast. I didn't enjoy the sauce on the steak, and the whole thing wasn't remotely par with what they turn out for dinner. The portion was also quite small and cost $24. I hoped to salvage the meal with my current dessert favorite, "Rum Toast", but was informed this wasn't available at brunch. I was also rather annoyed by the fact they were blaring music which at one point ventured into what I could only describe as latin teen pop. Just awful! Thank goodness someone finally switched things over to less intrusive jazz selections. They do a great job at dinner, but I wouldn't bother with brunch. If you're in the area and want this sort of thing, walk across Columbus circle to Nougatine at Jean-Georges where they do a better job at lower price point.

Paula JK I'm sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience at Cafe Boulud. I dine there regularly and it has become my favorite restaurant in NYC. It is not perfectly consistent, nor is any restaurant for that matter. In my experience over the years, it is more consistent than most at its level. I checked my calendar and it seems that you were there on a Saturday night. One thing I would suggest is that if at all possible, you should try Cafe Boulud on a weeknight if you really want the best tasting menu experience. I'm not trying to make excuses for them, but I have found that they are so slammed on Friday and Saturday that they generally don't do as well with a tasting menus. It's much more fun on a Wednesday night (especially if you go on the early or late side), when Andrew Carmellini has time to relax and think about something more creative than what you experienced. Again, I am not making excuses. Cafe Boulud and Daniel aim for the highest of standards and they ought to deliver After over 100 meals there I'd say they do about 85% of the time, and that nearly every disappointment for me has come on a Saturday night. I would encourage you to write a thoughtful letter mentioning your disappointment, and perhaps noting some positive aspects as well (the green pea ravioli or something you particularly enjoyed on a previous visit). Five years ago I had my first disappointing meal at Cafe Boulud and did the same. They replied in a most gracious manner and I have been a regular customer ever since. I assure you that Cafe Boulud can be one of the absolute best restaurants in NYC both in terms of food and service, and am sorry they failed to live up to that standard during your last visit. If you like their approach to food, I'd give them another chance. By the way, I had dinner there last night and was pleased to see the spring pea ravioli back on the menu. A subtle yet fantastic dish in my opinion.

Well it took a month or so, but Mitchell London's departure has finally taken its toll. I've eaten at Fairway Cafe regularly since it opened as it has been one of the better consistent values in in my neighborhood. Over the past two months the food items that I regularly order (Big Boy special with pancakes, french onion soup, croque monsieur) have really slipped. The last order of pancakes I had were rubbery and tasted fishy, as if they hadn't cleaned the grill properly. The formerly excellent onion soup has gotten steadily worse and today was nearly inedible - what little cheese was on top wasn't even browned, the onions were an undercooked mess, and there wasn't enough broth to allow even half the onions to be consumed. I'm sorry to see this place in decline, as it really was a great asset in terms of price/quality in this neighborhood. It goes to show how important attention to detail is in even relatively simple foods. I'd bet that most of the supplies and produce are the same, but without Mitchell London at the helm, the execution has gone to hell in a handbasket. The only thing that hasn't changed is the service - disorganized as ever.

If I'm not mistaken La Boite en Bois has been operated by the same chef/owner since 1986. I remember this because I spent my first summer in NYC then and lived down the block. What was it called before this? I still stop in from time to time for their pre-theater prix fixe, and the menu is pretty much the same as ever. There's something comforting about a place where same Maitre'd (Raoul) has been around for 20 years and there's always a plate of saucissons chaud on hand. I also find it interesting that Isabella's has been around at least this long, and still seems to be very popular.

What can I say? For those of us without automobiles in Manhattan, "Get thee to a nunnery" is perhaps a more likely proposition.

I wasn't there on Easter Sunday (I was on a Chinese Dumping quest downtown), but I eat lunch at Lupa fairly often. While it's certainly not expensive by NYC standards, I have found the portions to be fairly small, and many of the ingredients (i.e. the pastas) have a low overall food cost given the prices charged. For example, a few slices of salumi (albeit excellent quality artisinal salumi) with cheese costs $15. I've had great dishes there, such as traditional ribbon pasta with wild boar, and some unremarkable ones as well. I think it is hit or miss, but always return because the high points can be wonderful. This place and Babbo seem to fit in the same economic model - excellent dishes made with a lower food cost (pastas, less expensive cuts of meat and offal) at a competitive price point for NYC.

Sam, sorry for going off topic here but... Other than dumplings, what other items would you recommend I order on my second visit to New Green Bo? Also, neophyte to NGB that I am, what do I have to say to get the particular soup dumplings Fat Guy is raving about? I didn't see anything on the menu listed as such. If I'm not mistaken, I've this type of dumping at Joe's Shanghai before.

On this quiet and gray Easter morning, I awoke to thoughts of families happily brunching, lovers curled up in bed together, children gleefully hunting candy eggs - and found myself feeling a bit depressed as a bachelor in NYC. What was I to do? Ah, how about a solo dumpling quest in Chinatown! While I've eaten many a dumpling in my day, I am no afficionado. So I turned to suggestions on this thread. I figured I'd take Fat Guy's advice and start at his personal dumpling mecca, New Green Bo. Well, I must say I agree their fried pork dumplings are a thing of beauty. Flavorful, not too heavy, with a perfectly browned and slightly crispy skin on the bottom. It was all I could do to restrain myself from eating the entire order of eight by myself (I reluctantly stepped away from the dumplings after number 5, to save room for other contenders). Next stop was Tasty Dumpling. These dumplings were smaller and slightly less browned, but with excellent flavor. At $1.00 for five dumplings, this place surpasses even Gray's Papaya "recession special" hotdog combo as best food bargain in Manhattan. Next I went around the corner to Fried Dumpling on Mosco. This place had a bit more "atmosphere" as the lady made dumplings by hand right in front of me, yelling out orders in Chinese to the fry cooks behind. I didn't enjoy these dumplings as much as the others, however. They were less browned and stuck together, with a more rubbery/doughy texture to the skins. They also had less flavor than the dumplings at New Green Bo and Tasty Dumpling. Still, at $1.00 for five, it's hard to complain. While I had high hopes of sampling five or six of the places mentioned in this thread, I didn't pace myself properly. Scarfing down fifteen dumplings in less than an hour, I had to throw in the towel after Fried Dumpling. My ranking so far: 1. New Green Bo (66 Bayard St.) 2. Tasty Dumpling (Mulberry St.) 3. Fried Dumpling (Mosco St.) It's also worth noting that I probably sampled all three at an ideal time of day. Each place cooked my dumplings to order, as it was a relatively slow Sunday afternoon. Many thanks to all the E-Gullet dumpling pioneers who paved the way for a very enjoyable Sunday expedition to Chinatown.

Stopped by today for lunch. I was seated at the bar and asked if could start with a "Jacques-Imo's Famous Iced Coffee" touted on the menu. The waitress looked at me, said curtly "I don't know how to make that", and walked away. I sat at the bar for ten more minutes and was never offered another drink or a menu. There was no bartender in sight, though plenty of servers rushing around. Finally, I gave up and walked out. My last visit had very poor/erratic service as well. I'm not sure I'll bother with Jacques-Imo's again.

Thanks for the report, Todd36! I'm going to have to head back there myself.

For the record, both Vong and Jo Jo pre-date Jean Georges. ← Good point. I was thinking of more recent additions, like Spice, 66 and the new steakhouse at Time Warner Center. To be fair, I think these places are better than Wolfgang and Emeril's expanding empires, and I probably should have left them out of this discussion. Also, I haven't been to Vong or Jo Jo in a long time, and had all but forgotten about them. I stand corrected.

No idea if it's still there. If you've got time, I'd recommend going for a late lunch and striking up a conversation with the owner. I ended up sitting at a table with him and another old regular for nearly two hours after lunch, drinking a complimentary bottle of Bordeaux and enjoying his tales from sixty years in the restaurant business. He moved here during WWII and opened up shop in the same space. He'd have been evicted a long time ago, if not for the fact he owns the real estate. His kids have been trying to convince him to sell it for a huge profit and retire. He said he can't bring himself to do so, as he loves the business and enjoys playing host to regulars - some of whom who have been dining there since he opened the doors over fifty years ago. He may seem a little crotchety (in classic French waiter style of course) at first, but underneath he's a gentleman of the sort that is all but extinct these days in NYC.

Just found the name of the place in my previous post. It's Veau D'Or. I couldn't figure out how to link Bourdain's post from the older bistro thread, so I'll quote it below.

Amen, Bux. Does anyone remember the name of the little bistro in Midtown over on Lex or maybe 3rd, run by the 75 year old French owner/operator? Tony Bourdain wrote about it on this site about a year ago, and I paid a visit shortly thereafter. I wouldn't say the food was anything special, but it was certainly authentic French bistro fare and cheap to boot. The place is like a time-capsule from 1950. The owner doubles as the host, maitre'd and waiter - and regulars get up to answer the phone when he's in the kitchen. They also serve themselves from the bar when necessary. Quite an interesting experience, and worth the trip for sheer entertainment value. They also had very drinkable French wine at old-school low prices.

In my experience, the most consistently overrated restaurants are chains operated by celebrity chefs. Emeril Lagasse and Wolfgang Puck's places come to mind (though I had a great meal years ago at the original Spago, and the original Emeril's in NOLA is still quite good). These places usually seem to adhere to a formula which suffers from lack of attention over time. I still think the original Jean-Georges in NYC has great food, but have been relatively unimpressed with JG's other ventures. Also, I think some of the past NYC greats are either resting on their laurels, or have simply failed to keep up with the ever-escalating food wars in NYC. Chanterelle, Montrachet, Aureole and Picholine come to mind in this category. For the record, I think that Le Bernardin is one of the old guard that still delivers the goods - albeit in a style and fashion that may seem staid compared to the newer crop of "wow" destinations.

I may be beating a dead horse here, but.... I was ticked off the other night for several reasons, not just the 300-400% markup (which seems to be fairly standard in NYC these days). I was never visited by a sommelier, the list had few bottles under $100 that I would even bother drinking at their retail price, and nearly everything was from the 2000 vintage or younger. It was a case of looking at a list and having to choose the lesser of evils, while still forking out nearly $100 for wine. There was no value added by their wine service in my opinion. There are many NYC restaurants guilty of this same offense. I'm not knowledgeable enough to pontificate on the food cost issue discussed in the thread, but I can give a few examples of how I think the food/wine should be done. The most important piece of the puzzle is having a truly knowledgeable sommelier who will spend time with customers helping them select the right bottle for their budget and meal. Another factor is creating a list with interesting selections at all price points. All too often, I see lists with plenty of interesting bottles at the top, and nothing but plonk at the bottom. It's almost as if they want to punish customers who can't or won't spend $100 or more a bottle. There are plenty of great inexpensive yet interesting wines made today, so there's no excuse for any restaurant with high aspirations to force mediocre wines on the lower end customers. Three restaurants that have exemplary wine programs in my opinion are Cafe Boulud, Babbo and Veritas. They all come at it from different angles, but all provide the customer with real value at their price points. Cafe Boulud is an expensive place with a lot of very wealthy regular customers, yet they manage to have plenty of good selections around the $50 range. They also have wines that range into the thousands, and I know for a fact they sell a lot of wine in both categories. Cafe Boulud also has (or at least had, as they're currently looking for a sommelier I believe) a sommelier who searched the planet for truly exceptional wines. A lot of what's on their list is not commercially available. Also, their staff was highly knowledgeable, and seldom if ever made a recommendation that was not spot on (and when they did, they had no problems taking the bottle back at no charge). For this sort of service, I don't mind paying the 3-4x markup. Veritas has an excellent list, and always has great selection by the glass at both the high and low end of the range. They also have interesting half bottles. This allows the customer to order something they could not perhaps afford by the full bottle, but at least be able to try a glass or two. Babbo has a huge list of all Italian wines, many not found elswhere, and a knowledgeable staff to sell them. I know little about Italian wines, so I always rely on them to choose for me. They have seldom steered me wrong. I suspect a lot of these wines are quite inexpensive at cost, but they're generally interesting and affordable. The list also has plenty of selections at all price points. I don't care if Batali sells me a $10 bottle of some obscure Italian wine for $50, so long as it's an enjoyable and interesting bottle - which it almost invariably is. I know that each of these restaurants sells a lot of wine at a wide range of price points, and I'd guess that they probably sell more wine than most of their competitors. In the end, the common denominator seems to me to be a staff who can impart their enthusiasm for and knowledge of wine to their customers, and having a balanced list that allows customers to find something worth drinking whether they're on a $50 or a $500 wine budget. Too many supposedly "high end" restaurants charge high markups, yet offer too little in terms of service or selection. Is the horse dead yet????

Thanks DutchMuse for the list! I've brought bottles to several of these places, and I can say that the staff at Chanterelle is especially gracious about it (in thanks the sommelier and chef have gotten glasses to enjoy from my bottles).

Thanks for your perspective on this. I'm sorry there are so many jerks out there that ruin it for those of us who love to share a great bottle of wine. Much of my wine knowledge has come from friendships struck up with sommeliers over the years. I would never have discovered a lot of the wines I now collect and drink if it wasn't for kind and generous folks like Olivier Flosse (former sommelier at Cafe Boulud). I can understand that bringing a wine may be an insult to some in your profession. However, the only reason I'd bring a bottle would be because it's something very special and is not on the restaurant's list. Also, I just can't afford to buy a truly great bottle of wine at NYC markups. For example, I was perusing the list at Jean-Georges the other day and if I remember correctly, a bottle of 1982 La Mission Haut Brion was listed at $2600. That's way more than my budget will allow. However, even though I have some bottles of '82 LMHB left in my cellar, I wouldn't bring one to Jean-Georges because it's on their list. I do think it's rude to do that, and I always call ahead to inform a restaurant what I'm bringing to avoid this problem. After the cold reception I received at Jean-Georges the one time I brought a bottle (a bottle of 1975 Pichon Lalande that had special significance to me as it was a gift from the winemaker's cave), I decided not to bother again. It also made me wonder why they even bother offering their $75 corkage if they're going to get their panties in a wad when people actually pay it.

Interesting... I too used to live in CA and loved the fact that nearly every restaurant allowed me to bring bottles so long as they weren't on the house list. My experience in NYC has been quite the opposite. I've found few restaurants that allowed me to bring wines, irrespective of corkage fees. And then, even the places with corkage fees treated me like crap when I arrived with wine in hand. In general, this has not been ameliorated by the fact I always call ahead, always bring something exceptional that is not on their list, always buy an additional bottle of something good off their list in addition to the bottle I bring, and always offer a taste of my wine to the waitstaff and/or chef. In my experience, the top NYC restaurants have a big issue with any sort of BYOB, no matter how hard I try to be reasonable about it. It bums me out, because I love wine and food, have a fairly decent wine collection, and don't cook much at home. All I want is to be able to bring a special bottle from my cellar out to dinner once in a while. I also can't begin to afford to pay $1000 for a bottle of wine, which is about what it would cost in NYC to drink a lot of the wines in my cellar. I gave up on bringing wines out in NYC years ago. I hope that you are right that things are changing in this regard. In my mind, there's no good reason why NYC restaurants shouldn't allow regular customers to bring their own bottles once in a while. Even if they charge $100 for corkage, they'd be ahead of the game. I'd get to bring my wine, they'd make the same profit that they would have had I ordered off their list, and I could finally drink a wine worthy of the food they provide.

Let's take your model of $100 for food and $150 for wine. Would it make you feel better about the experience if they charged $175 for the same food and $75 for the same wine? Or are you saying that you'd like to have the same experience for only $175 (same $100 price for the food and only $75 for the wine)? ← Damn Sam, I'm not sure I have a good answer for your question! I guess I'm willing to pay up for something unique and special that I can't get elsewhere, be it food or wine. I could never hope to cook a meal like those I've had regularly at the top restaurants in NYC. I have no problem forking out $100+ at a place like Cafe Boulud or Jean Georges, because they're offering something I can't make myself and seldom find outside of cities such as NYC or Paris. The thought, labor and vision that goes into a meal at these places is easily worth the price asked, in my humble opinion. However, when someone in NYC wants to charge me $50 per bottle for a mediocre 2003 Sauvignon Blanc that I can buy at Kroger Foods in Charlottesville, VA for $13.99, I begin to question what I'm paying for. Rare wines, things I can't buy anywhere at retail, or wines from exceptional producers/vintages are another matter. I can stomach forking over 3x retail at one of Daniel's restaurants when I'm getting a great wine (and a good vintage) from the likes of Peter Michael, Arnaud Ente, Helen Turley, Paul Hobbs, La Mission Haut Brion, etc. - wines I struggle to find at auction let alone retail. I'm also willing to pay up for recommendations from a truly knowledgeable sommelier that will teach me something about wine pairings or wines I haven't tried (Daniel's restaurants, ADNY, Danube, Veritas all provide such expertise). This is not the case for many restaurants in NYC charging these huge markups. At MAS I was handed a wine list, never saw a sommelier, and was expected to pay 2-4x retail for mediocre wines from recent vintages that are either readily available at any wine store are from small but lackluster vineyards. The bottom line is thaf if you want to charge that kind of money for food or wine, you'd better be prepared to deliver something out of the ordinary. Otherwise you're wasting my time and my money.

I think we're talking about two different bottlings. Turley makes both a "Hayne Vineyard" Petite Syrah and an estate bottling which retails for about half the price. The wine in question was the estate bottling. I'm a big fan of Turley Zins and have bought a lot of them at retail and at auction. Never had the Petite Syrahs, so can only go by the reviews I've read, which admittedly doesn't count for much. However, I'd be hesitant to pay $120 for a wine that got such a horrible review in the Wine Spectator (incidentally, the "Hayne Vineyard" bottlings got much higher accolades).

Agreed, but there's a difference when you're talking about more expensive bottles of wine. When one has to pay 350% markup on a bottle of wine that retails for $50, which is a general price point where truly fine wines come into play, that's $125 of profit for the restaurant (or more like $150 considering wholesale cost). It's also $175 out of my pocket. That's a much more painful financial hit than a $10 martini or a $5 latte. I don't mind spending $100 a person for world-class food, but I do have a problem having to add $150-$300 for a halfway decent bottle of wine to go with it. Even at this price point, one isn't likely to get a truly exceptional bottle of wine or something from an older vintage. That will usually set you back $500 or more a bottle in a NYC restaurant. That's a lot of money unless your last name happens to be Trump. I don't buy bottled water at restaurants for the same reason. I'd much rather drink NYC tap than pay $10 for San Pellegrino.