marcus

I'm not quite on that point. I believe that Blue Hill more than most restaurants has produced a divergent rather than convergent set of opinions as to the merits of its cuisine. I'm suggesting that it is not because of how the diner may proactively approach a restaurant, which I agree with Lizziee and Steve P can have an effect, although in my view this has been somewhat overstated, but that Blue Hill in particular has a style that particularly provokes a wide variation in response, even from very knowledgeable diners. This goes to personal taste rather than right and wrong.

I am sceptical that Blue Hill really produces such variable levels of quality based on tasting menu versus carte and patrons that are known or appeal to the chef versus those that simply sit down and order. This is rather insulting to a restaurant that I believe is quite serious. I think that the real difference is in the flavor profile that they seek to produce, clear, restrained, low impact, that appeals very differently to different diners. As I've posted elsewhere, I for one, based on a single meal, but as part of a large table with many dishes ordered, did not particularly like Blue Hill with the exception of the poached duck, which to me tasted very much of duck. Overall, I found the food boring. However, I think that it is more productive to analyze this restaurant on its own terms rather than superimposing anecdotal and extraneous considerations.

Steve -- Outstanding report. You confirm my own observation regarding what I characterized as Trotter's "sloppy preparation", with your report of 2 out of 2 overcooked fish dishes. I also found problems with overcooking of some meat dishes as well. In my experience, Trotter's offers only 2 menus in the main dining room, regular and vegetarian, with no choices. Do you believe that you received different dishes than those on the menu, or has Trotter changed formats?

The chicken may be inexpensive, many restaurants offer a single well priced dish, but it doesn't represent the average price of main dishes. My recollection the last time I ate there was $26-32 per. Anyhow Mogsob, aren't you changing course here. In your original post you said "pay the bill with your eyes closed".

Le Calendre is an odd choice for 3 stars. I was in the Veneto about 2 years ago, and didn't try it because the Gambero Rosso guide seemed to positively dislike it, I think that because of some problem, they didn't even give it a numerical rating. Howerve, I don't know what they said in their most recent guide. Francesco -- I have to disagree with you regarding the scandal regarding not giving 2 stars to the 3 restaurants that you name. I've eaten at Enoteca Pinchiorri a number of times and would consider it to be no more than a middling to upper middling 2 star restaurant in France. As you know, the chef is in fact French. I used to go because their ultimately great wine list used to be reasonably priced. Unfortunately this is no longer the case. I haven't been to Vissani, but everyone that I know who has been there has actively disliked it. As for Gambero Rosso, I recall that in a recent post, you yourself stated that it was not a restaurant that you particularly liked. In my view, Il Pescatore, where I have eaten once, is marginal as a 3 star restaurant.

I like l'Absinthe as well, but probably not quite as much as Mogsob. It is really an everyday restaurant for moneyed upper east siders rather than a destination restaurant which is how I would characterize your list of references. It is also very expensive for the level of preparation which is quite simple. In fact, you need to avoid the few elaborate dishes which mostly appear in the daily special, as they can be quite unsuccessful. One of the virtues of lAbsinthe is that you can typically walk in and get a table, but of course a reservation is to be preferred. What they do provide are simple well prepared French bistro dishes using excellent ingredients which they treat well. I particularly like their duck breast preparations and they probably have the best steak frites in the city, much better than Les Halles for example, the steak not necessarily the frites.

Reading through this thread leads me to realize that the underlying issue is the overall lack of satisfaction with the food stores available in NYC. I believe that this lack of satisfaction applies to restaurants as well and leads to similar trains of action and reaction. The reality is that although NY is undoubtedly a major food and restaurant city, it really does not meet the standards that we eGullet foodies crave, either in overall quality or consistency. This causes us to go around in circles; we find a place that we think we like, try it a few times, become disenchanted and look for something new. The process continues and eventually our hopefulness leads us back to the places that we once rejected, and the process repeats. On the restaurant side, we see discerning diners express high satisfaction with a restaurant for having acorded them one excellent meal in three. Steve P's mention of Barthelemy brought this home to me in reminding me of what excellence really is. If we had Barthelemy in NY, then the discussion of all other cheese shops would become irrelevant. If we had Barthelemy and its peers in NY, then the plaintive search for quality in this thread and so many others would become unnecessary. We would be discussing choices among different versions of excellence and the tone would be entirely different. However, as a lifelong New Yorker, I do have my opinions, so I will offer my two cents worth. Cheese is the most difficult as there is no great cheese store in NY. DiPalo's is excellent for certain specific things like ricotta, but among the general purpose cheese shops, Dean and Deluca is as good as any, which is only fair. Fish is a more hopeful area. There are a number of day boats that sell their catches in the greenmarkets, the blue moon boat stand at Union Square on Wednesdays is particularly good and their striped bass fillets for $11/lb is spectacular. I don't know of any commercial fish stores that sell day boat catch, and I would be interested to learn of any. The problem with day boats is that they only provide local fish which is restrictive in variety. Fish that comes through the wholesal fish market, caught by commercial boats, is generally much older, although it can still be good. You need to go to the most selective, and thus expensive, fish stores to get good stuff. Citarella, Rosedale, Wild Edibles are all good, but I prefer Pisacane due to their greater emphasis on whole fish. Wild Edibles seems to offer a number of Pacific fish such as Mahi Mahi and Ecuadorian swordfish which I don't particularly like. I would definitely advise people to avoid the Chinatown fish markets which are notorious for buying the cheapest stuff available and there have been scandals with chemical reprocessing of spoiled seafood. For meat, particularly beef where the government standards have been downgraded numerous times, a really good recommendation is difficult. Dean and Deluca, even in its heyday, was never strong in this area. I used to live in the Village and never found Jefferson Market or Florence Market to be all that great, I think that their reputation is based more on ambience and service. Ottomanellis is serviceable, but below top rank. I actually found that Balducci's was overall the best, but I have been there very seldom since it was sold, and don't know whether this deparment has declined or not. Lobel is certainly very good, but in my experience they emphasize tenderness over flavor, and I sometimes have found their steaks to be bland. My brother and I about 5-6 years ago did a blind tasting of NY strips from Balducci's, Lobel and Jefferson Market and Balducci's won by a wide margin with Lobel second. For produce, outside of the greenmarkets in season, since the decline of Balducci's produce department, I wouldn't know where to go. Not Fairway, any of the Garden of Edens or Gourmet Garage or Chelsea Market. Dean and Deluca's prices are rediculous. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

annchang -- I have reread your post a number of times trying to understand why, although relatively brief, it is so excellent, as a number of others have already stated. To some extent, it is clear that you have a greater insight into Asian spicing than we Americans do. However, even more importantly, you are capable of dissecting a dish layer by layer, illustrating the chef's intentions, and almost showing rather than just stating how a dish succeeds. This is a rare skill. I would be very interested to read further discussion from you regarding your comparison of Gagnaire and Astrance.

I am not an expert, but I think that there are two processes that take place after a wine bottle is opened. Breathing is the dissolving of oxygen into the wine which is a physical process which does not change the wine itself. This yields positive taste effects, and the Breatheasy would seem to enhance this process. Oxidation is a chemical process in which the wine interacts with oxygen and changes. Eventually oxidation will totally destroy the wine. My understanding is that oxidation begins after about half an hour, especially if the wine has been decanted. The effects are a softening of the tannins and a loss of fruit. For a young wine with very hard tannins and a lot of fruit, the tradeoff may be positive, in that the wine becomes drinkable, although not as good as it would be if the tannins were to soften naturally in the bottle, with maximum preservation of fruit. So, although one may attain early drinkability, it is at a cost of not experiencing the full potential of the wine. Older wines are typically decanted in order to remove the sediment. Except for Ports, this is a poor tradeoff. These wines should preferably be opened and poured directly into the wineglass for immediate drinking. Ports have particularly heavy sediment and are resistant to oxidation because they are fortified and sweetened, so Ports should be decanted.

Southern Girl -- Do you find that one excellent meal in 3 tries is an acceptable ratio for a restaurant in this category. I ate in Jean Georges once, had a meal comparable to your first, and never went back.

Steve -- you may have more recent information on Parker ratings, but I looked in my copy of his last printed version of his Bordeaux book which shows his ratings as follows for the years in question: 1981 -- 85 1989 -- 95+ 1991 -- 86 1993 -- 86 The score re 1989 is a very significant discrepency, perhaps you could check your source again.

I get it now. No insult intended. However, when a Manhattan restaurant is not patronized by local residents, it is almost invariably a negative indicator.

Nick -- I seem to be a bit dense on this , but I don't understand your point, and I would like to. Would you please clarify. Jaybee -- 81, 91, 93, are all fair to poor years for LB which is not a particularly strong performer in off years, as it a wine that depends on impact rather than structure, and really needs fine grapes to perform at all. 89, which I hope that you did have despite your questionmark, is one of the greatest LBs ever. It is massive and deep and strictly speaking not yet ready, but I've had it a number of times and find it very enjoyable, but you can't be super sensitive to tannin.

I ate there more recently. Fair to poor at best. Very disappointing cassoulet. Overall, had a downhill feeling, not full, suburban type customers.

Tonyfinch -- I don't think that your intemperate response is helpful in trying to develop a nuanced approach to deal across cultural divides. I don't believe that anyone has yet demonstrated that Astrance had any role in the reservation problem that kicked off this thread. Bux -- I personally consider myself a Francophile and admire the French not just for their food, but for their overall approach to life and even their intellectualism, although in the case of the latter not always. That doesn't mean that an objective and dispassionate appraisal doesn't show problems. Lizziee -- We need to have selfconfidence as Americans, and not show an inferiority complex where we attribute problems to our not doing things right. I don't believe that the problem of Americans or other foreigners obtaining reservations has very much to do with manners or with failing to honor reservations. I once read a fascinating article, I believe in the NYT magazine, but I'm not sure, by an American woman of French background who spoke fluent French. She described the difference in living in France as an English speaker versus as a French speaker. When she spoke native French, attitudes were entirely different in numerous ways, and people were helpful to her almost to the extent of it seeming like an extended family. This include everything from her hairdresser to shopping.ds

I don't buy into this American no show theory. I believe that very few people will cavalierly no show after the advance planning and dificulty involved in getting a reservation at one of these tough restaurants. The reality is that the French would much rather fill their restaurant with French than Americans, but that there are only a small handful of restaurants where this is really possible. The French are genuinely xenophobic and have a much stronger affinity for their own group and a dislike of foreigners, than we woule recognize as Americans. Robuchon was the most notorious example. My own experience was writing six months in advance for a reservation and receiving a refusal about a month before our trip. I then quickly contacted a business relation in Paris who called and was offered the next available date, which unfortunately was 7-8 weeks away and too late for us. This person had no special relationship to the restaurant; he was merely a native French speaker. My own experience with trying to reserve Astrance is that I called during my last trip to Paris last December. The reservationist spoke excellent English, was friendly and polite, but didn't have a reservation, which was undoubtedly true at the time. My vote still goes to the concierge never making the call. My experience with concierges in 5 star French hotels in Paris is that they view their job impersonally and don't really give a damn. You might actually do better in a three star hotel, some of which have caring management.

Robert -- I found Helene Darroze extremely disappointing, I was amazed that I didn't even like her Foie Gras. Overall I found the food unfocused. In addition it is very expensive, perhaps the worst price performing restaurant that I know of in Paris, well into the 2 star price range with food that is less than the one star she gets, I think a 15 from GM. In that area, although a very different style of cooking, I very much like Maxence.

I travel up to Pittsfield for Fontaine's lamp auction several times a year and look for a place to eat along the way. I've tried Aubergine in Hillsdale, NY, John Andrew's in South Egremont, MA, Bistro Zinc in Lenox and Truc Orient Express in West Stockbridge. Unfortunately, none were better than fair at best and I wouldn't recommend them. Next on my list to try is Verdura in Great Barrington. There are two very upscale hotel restaurants in Lenox, Wheatleigh and Blantyre, but I am extremely sceptical and wouldn't try either of these without a very credible recommendation.

Neither Jacques Cagna nor Espadon Bleu appears to be on the Gault Millau website which has the 2002 guide online. Rotisserie d'en Face, his bistro is listed with a rating of 12. Jacques Cagna still gets 1 star from Michelin, down from 2 stars once upon a time.

Lizziee -- I don't dislike fusion cooking in principle, but in practice my experience with it has not been satisfactory. This culminated in my dinner at Roellinger, which should be the acme of fusion cooking, which I actively disliked. With regard to Troisgros, this is compounded by my reading of an apparent consensus that the son is not a brilliant chef. I have not been back to Troisgros for many years since before the father died, and I remember it as one of my very best and most enjoyable meals ever. I have been reluctant to compromise those memories. Intellectualization has been a growing component of modern life which has had impacts on all arts including haut cuisine. Where it crosses the line, or if such a line even exists, into-overintellectualization is a personal judgment. I hit that line earlier rather than later. In my view, intellectualization inherently places itself in opposition to soul. Here are some examples: At Trama I once had a salmon dish with balsamic vinegar and blee germe. The wheat germ was in a small pile on top of the fish. It had no taste. It was there to make a statement that Trama believes in healthy food. Michel Bras' appetizer with 20+ vegetables placed together in small quantifies is a brag over technique. He is saying, look at what I can do by indvidually cooking and placing together this large number of vegetables and herbs and you can individually taste every one. I actually enjoy this dish, but if I didn't know and appreciate what the chef was attempting, I'm not sure that I would. I've never been to El Bulli, but his "deconstruction" of raw materials into foams is clearly another type of intellectualization. With regard to French Laundry I am once again speaking at second hand. Nor do I believe that Keller is the worst offender, but I do have the impression that his is, to a significant extent, concept food. I'm sure that he is not nearly as much of an offender, from my perspective, as Trotter who's dishes to me appear to be studies rather than finished works.

I would place a strong bet for the problem originating with the concierge, who is likely covering up, rather than the restaurant. If you call the restaurant where they do speak English, they will tell you whether they actually cancelled you or never made the reservation in the first place.

Lizziee -- The underlying question is how do we form an opinion of a restaurant in which we've never eaten based on the reports of others. How do we calibrate those opinions. For me, in thinking about this, there are 3 touch points: How do a reviewer's opinions compare to my own for restaurants that I have been to, is a restaurant and its dishes described in terms that appear relevant to me, and reading between the lines, what is the reviewer revealing that may be inadvertant, rather than directly intended. I do find your reviews quite credible and I read your write-ups on your recent trip to France with great interest and have printed a copy of your 21 best dishes. I do suspect that I am more directly focused on the food as opposed to the overall dining experience and that I may be somewhat more critical overall. Of great service, you have convinced me that I do not need to try Astrance, that I can go back to Troisgros and still get excellently prepared instances of the old classics without having to try the fusion dishes that I know will disappoint me, and that I do not need to make a special trip to L'Arnsbourg, generic and international in style even though very good. On the other hand, despite your negative review, I still do need to try Veyrat, although I'm sure that you would agree with that as well. My best example of a revealing comment comes from Fat Guy's excellently constructed recent review of Citarella which was circulated in his newsletter. I particularly liked the review because it didn't start with a recitation of dishes, but by creating a context at a higher conceptual level; discussing freshness of ingredients, then applying this to fish and Citarella as a fish company, then discussing the chef and his history and then bringing these together to discuss the restaurant and using the dishes to exemplify. Even his direct criticism of the dishes as being sometimes too bland didn't turn me off. What definitively did turn me off, was his description of the treatment of himachi collar, where in order to pander (my word) to local sensibilities, the fish was removed from the bony structure which was not presented on the plate. For this reason, I personally will not go to this restaurant. With regard to the French Laundry, all of the dishes that you named look very good from a menu perspective and at this level I agree with you, what's to not like? All I can say is that after reading multiple reviews including yours and Robert Brown's, Fat Guy's and others, my belief is that I would find the style to be over-intellectualized. What Robert Brown has added is that the restaurant may also be in a trough with regard to creativity and execution, and my reading is that this is not a one time aberration.

robert -- thanks so much for your highly credible revue. I have been on the fence about trying to go to FL although reading between the lines of many reviews, even lizziee's, I've felt that I personally wouldn't like it very well. Frequent past uses of terms such as "witty" i've interpreted, reading between the lines, as superficial and possibly soulless. You have saved me lots of effort in definitively convincing me that I really don't have to go. In the same way, your review of El Bulli, in my opinion the single finest review that I've read on this site, convinced me that I do have to go, although it is another restaurant that I suspect I may not like very well. I will be very interested in you eventual review of Trotter's which has a different style than FL, but seems to have many of the same failings. However, in the interest of dispassionate evaluation, I would be reluctant to go with Trotter's biggest cheerleader.

Went to Blue Hill this past Saturday evening largely based on the positive reports on eGullet. We were a family party of 6 including a very well behaved 5 year old and I focused on the food to a much lesser extent than usual so I can give only the most high level report. The restaurant was comfortable and the background sound level was much lower than I expected allowing for good conversation. The service was fine, laid back, unobtrusive, but efficient. The food, which was tasted around, was generally uninspiring. The amuse was a small underflavored goat cheese tart. The crab lasagna which was ordered by 2 and had the most circulation was generally disliked, the crab itself having a sweetish and unpleasant flavor. The pumpkin ravioli, which I didn't taste, was pronounced awful. The main dishes were better. The cod which was cooked at low temperature had intellectually interesting texture and flavor, but I didn't enjoy it, probably because of its low serving temperature. The poached duck was outstanding in preparation, flavor intensity and overall balance, a real tour de force. The chicken dish served to the 5 year old was also very good with a combination of possibly steamed breast, along with a crispier preparation ontop of roast potatos. The chocolate bread pudding was good, no more, and was much denser than a real bread pudding. The scoops of accompanying vanila and chocolate ice cream were underflavored. My brother commented as to how rare it is any longer fo restaurants to have real pastry chefs. Overall, 5 very experienced restaurant goers were underwhelmed at best.

Lizziee, you are incredible. I am generally considered a humongous eater, but I have no doubt that you could eat me under the table as well, and with ease. The idea of having three meals in two days at Troisgros is mind blowing, and then to go on from there....