mogsob

Both Angelo & Maxies and the Strip House are crap -- their steaks are of an inferior quality and are not properly aged. Neither restaurant deserves mention in any discussion about the great steakhouses of the world. As for Luger, well my young friend from Paris, you screwed up. Members of your party ordered the steak medium and the staff and PL doesn't like that. It has been my experience that the truly great steaks are reserved for those who order blue, black and blue, rare or memphis. You may also get a great steak if you order it medium rare (try to emphasize rare in comparison to medium there). But anything more -- you get the worst steak in the house (which, to be fair, is still better than most in NY) and the chefs will do their best to overcook it just for spite. I once went with a large party all of whom liked their steak between medium well and well done -- I stood up, apologized, and left. No sense in being a part of that massacre. Is this fair? No. But surely, someone from Paris can appreciate the need to conform to local standards. My advice -- if you don't like your meat bloody as hell, leave PL for the rest of us and stay in Manhattan.

Things I Look For In A Wine List 1. Regional strength. I like to drink regionally, and appreciate a list that shows great depth in their local region. If I am in the States or outside of a good wine producing region, I like to see more than just Napa Cabs/Merlot/Chards, Bordeaux, Tuscany and a few Cote du Rhones on the list -- good pinots, germanics etc. 2. Interesting bottles. There are tons of wines you just can't get easily. I like to see those on wine lists. 3. Value. I don't begrudge a restaurant a decent profit on wine, but anything more than 100% of retail really irks me. I'll pay for storage, risk of taint etc., but I don't want to be gouged.

Of this list, I think the most comparable restaurants are Lespinasse, Le Cirque 2000 and Daniel. Of these, I can attest that while the wine list at Lespinasse is expensive, there are good values to be had there. Ditto Daniel. Neither has their wine list online, but the sticker shock at ADNY's wine list (absolute and relative cost) was in no small part due to the comparison to other NY restaurants.

I said NY retail as I buy almost exclusively French wine in London (a product of living close to La Vigneronne) and really can't speak to the retail prices of Italian wines in London. I do recall, as a good measure, that they had a 1995 Tignanello on the list for about 75 euros. The balance seemed proportionate by that measure, although I did notice a considerable higher markup on the whites. I have to say that although I enjoyed A&R, my wife did not -- we will be in Rome next month and A&R is not on our to do list. When the food was great, it was truly great. But the dishes were uneven and my wife got most of the clunkers. But what my wife found truly unforgivable was that Romeo positively sneered at our wine choice -- a very personal bottle for my wife that was on their list for 22 euros but what would have cost us over $50 in NY and one which we have yet to find in London.

This should be illegal. Not only is the Montrose not ready to drink, the cost at ADNY in no way is proportionate to its wholesale cost, let alone the retail cost. A restaurant like ADNY should only offer wine that is ready to drink and at a cost that reflects the wholesale cost plus the cost of storage, risk of taint, and a reasonable profit. This kind of gouging is completely reprehensible and cannot be justified. ADNY should by renamed ADNY-BYO.

The best steaks at Luger are the steaks for two. Get multiples of those, and avoid the small steaks which sometimes are overcooked.

First, I think the original post was a request for suggestions about "dry" wines that someone who liked sweet wines would enjoy, not for recommendations for sweet wines. I stand by my recommendation taht someone who likes sweet wines and is looking for a dry wine should look to gruner veltliner. Second, I said -- if you read closely -- that the ripeness at harvest is indicative of the residual sugar of the eventual wine, not that the classification system is based on residual sugar. While I acknowledge that differences exist, I have not had, for example, a TBA that is in any way less sweet than a kabinett.

I have to correct a few things here. 1. The term "german varietals" refers to grapes in the germanic region, not to the political borders of modern-day Germany. That is why german varietals are grown to this day in . . . ITALY, as well as in Austria. Also, some of the best rieslings in the world come from Austria, debunking the myth that Austians only make good GVs. 2. GV is certainly not "bone chilling dry." While it is certainly not as sweet as, say, an auslese riesling from the Mosel, well made GVs tend to be lower in acidity and therefore appeal to sweet wine drinkers looking for more food friendly wines. 3. In general, the ripeness level of the grapes in Germany are indicative of the eventual residual sugar content of the wine.

You MUST do a cheese course -- the pairing of gewutztraminer with real Alsatian munster is one of the real classics (right up there with Sauternes and Rocquefort). Be warned, however -- real munster is VERY STINKY and will dominate your fridge in no time -- best to buy the day of.

For gift giving at this level, I like to give a Sauternes or a vintage champagne. While the latter clearly appeals to more people, I actually prefer giving a very good Sauternes, due to the way it ages and changes colour over time.

Let's look at a few examples from the electronic ADNY wine list: LALANDE DE POMEROL Château l'Ancien 1999 $98 SAINT-ÉMILION GRAND CRU Château Faugères 1999 $92 SAINT-ÉSTÈPHE Château Montrose 1997 $280 PAUILLAC Château Pichon-Longueville 1997 $248 MARGAUX Pavillon Rouge du Château Margaux 1997 $164 SAINT-JULIEN Château Léoville-Barton 1998 $194 HAUT-MÉDOC Château La Lagune 1998 $98 Ok. This is pathetic. The pricing here bares no semblence to retail pricing. Moreover, I can't imagine why this restaurant is even serving the last three releases from Bordeaux at all -- none of these wines are ready for consumption. Fortunately, you have the table all night. I would suggest getting there at 6pm so that your wine might be ready for the macaroons. A restaurant of this level should not have a Bordeaux on the this younger than 15 years old. And no restaurant needs to charge more than twice retail to make a profit when the wines are this expensive to begin with.

Paul, thanks for the post. I have to disagree, in part, as to La Rosetta's wine list. We ate at Agata & Valentina the night after La Rosetta and several bottles on A&V's wine list were actually more expensive than at La Rosetta. While there are some stunning bargains at A&V (50% below NY retail), I found more than a few good buys at La Rosetta (at or slightly below NY retail).

tall boys > long necks

Someone a lot smarter than I once said that you learn best by doing, not reading. With wine, that about doubles your pleasures. I have nothing against any of the above book, but from what you save on the cover price, you drink more wine! If you like sweet wine, begin with German varietals: gewurtztraminer, riesling, gruner veltiner. You might also try sweet wines made in France from, particularly, semillon and muscat. You could also try Sherry, which is very underrated as a food-friendly wine, and is one of the best wine values in the world. Also, don't try to educate your palate with cheap wine. Buy the best you can, especially since $10-15 can buy very good wines in all of the above categories (except for Port and Sauternes). My advice is to start with German riesling. The labels are notoriously difficult to read, but once you get the hang of it, you'll be ok. Look for the following producers: Fritz Haag, Dr. Loosen, J.J. Prum, Dr. Burkin Wolf, J.J. Christoffel, Freidrich Wilhelm Gymnasium, Selbach-Oster, Dr. H. Thanisch, Max Ferd. Richter. They are pretty widely available and all offer very good wines. German riesling is classified by sweetness. I would advise beginning with spatlese wines, which are sweet, but not extremely so (the sweeter, the more expensive). You can also try kabinett wines, which are very good food wines and are generally very reasonable.

I haven't been to Gotham in about 4 years, but the last time I was there I was surprised by how good it was. The service was especially fine. It would be sad if Gotham's standards have slipped. BTW, whatever happened to the pastry chef from Symphony Cafe (early 90s) -- he was truly the master of "tall food." I once had an "espresso souffle" there. The dish contained several elements, the last one -- a bit of cake off to one side -- turned out to be the souffle in question.

Grimes really showed today why he is the critic and I, for one, am not. The Oyster Bar is one of mine, and obviously Grimes', favorite restaurants. It is across the street from my office and if I am not too busy, I often find myself at the counter digging into a pan roast. For me, there are few dining experiences that so completely sum up what NY is all about. For that reason, I could never give a bad review to the Oyster Bar -- far too many good memories there. Perhaps the weakness in the piece was not dividing the review up into three separate reviews, as the Oyster Bar is really three different restaurants. You have the lunch counter (three stars in my book), the restaurant (no stars -- I agree with Grimes here) and the Saloon (one star -- for the drinks).

I generally cannot order a starter, main and dessert, so I generally order two menu items. Or, if it is a 3 course menu, I generally do not finish everything on my plate. It is called restraint -- look into it. The problem I have with menu items such as salad (great bistro salads notwithstanding ) is that they invariable displace another, more interesting menu item. Moreover, by giving the diner an easy way out with a safe choice, a restaurant like WD50 will sacrifice a bit of its integrity and mission, namely to widen and improve the palates of NYers. Moreover, if the green salad was a financial hit, they might be tempted to add a more pedestrian menu item like roast chicken to the menu. Not that there is anything wrong with salads or roast chicken -- I had that for dinner last night. The difference is that I can cook that myself or I can go to a simple bistro for that. Why go to WD50 for that?

When Nobu first opened in NY, it was a revelation -- new flavors, new textures, and a new way of eating in general. Over time, it became cliched and the staff and kitchen became sloppy as they rested on their three stars and a month long waiting list. What was once so great and new, became old and tired very quickly. From your report, it seems that Nobu has exported its worst elements to London. A pity.

Steve P -- I wouldn't swear to it, but it seemed to me that I first heard about 71 Clinton and then those others.

WD50 is just in the nick of time. When this board's primary activity is to endlessly debate the merits of a PIZZA JOINT, well, you know things have gotten a bit stale. I will be interested to see the pricing at WD50. My problem with El Bulli, Gagnaire et al. was that you paid so much money for a meal that was less than perfect at times. At that price, I want perfection in everything, but to demand that would be to undermine the integrity of such restaurants. If WD50 is priced along the lines of 71 Clinton St., I think a new and exciting trend will be upon us. 71 Clinton showed NY that moderately priced casual restaurants were capable of a higher standard of cooking, and sure enough, a wide range of restaurants followed (Tocqueville, Blue Hill, Annisa etc.). Even Craft, in a way, is a product of 71 Clinton, which made NYers demand a higher quality of meal from restaurants. WD50 has the potential to expand the bounds of the limited menus served by 80% of the restuarnts in NY (if I never eat tuna tartare, seared foie gras or roasted scallops again, they won't be missed). WD50 is brave to challenge NYers -- it will be the very first restaurant I go to when I am home next month. Finally, I applaud any restaurant with the sense to omit salad from its menu. I'm not sure what I despise more, the space it takes up on the menu or the people who order them. Also, perhaps we can get a law passed restricting wine by the glass to California chards and merlot.

There is a reason it is called a "doggie bag" -- yet another reason why man is a dog's best friend. But, assuming you do not have a dog . . . i've always thought about making a version of Wollensky's roast beef hash -- any thought on whether that would work with steak?

Wilfrid -- I mostly agree with your post, although I found the food to be, other than the pasta course, better than I Trulli (I do love their wine bar, though). That said, Five Reasons Why I Will Go Back To L'Impero 1. It is very reasonable for that level of restaurant. 2. It is four blocks from my NY office. 3. They have a fun wine list to explore, without dire financial consequences. 4. I loved the polenta with wild mushrooms -- I will crave this now and again. 5. During the week, it is a bit more sedate and very nice to dine in. Would I choose it over any Italian restaurant in NYC -- no, but it is about half the cost of those I like best (Mulino, Scalinatella, San Domenico) and that is a factor. I think that if L'Impero served the same food downtown in a rustic setting, it would be hailed as the next great restaurant. It's midtown location and upscale decor project expectations that the kitchen has no intention of meeting -- just a thought.

Tap beer is irrelevant -- it is dead and not worthy of being drunk. Cask beer, properly hand pumped, is the only real ale. Sadly, this is a lost art in the States, where only a precious handfull make real ale. I have three locals. The first is a Young's pubs, so I get Bitter, Special and the seasonal. The second has Battersea, Adnams and a guest. The third has Pride, Adnams and a guest.

There is no question that Robert Parker has forgotten more about wine than I will ever know in my lifetime. And, indeed, I can find few faults, if any, with wines that score 95+ (or indeed 90+) on his ratings scale. Moreover, the fact that the French actually inducted him into the Legion of Honor speaks volumes of both his integrity and ability. That said, I cannot consistently distinguish (either in rating or in tasting rated wines) a 92 point wine from a 96 point wine, although presumably this distinction, at least, must be very clear to Parker. I rate wines on an excellent, very good, good, average, and poor scale. For me, that's about all I can handle. Steve P -- I am confused about your description of the Parker rating system. How does he know what the "perfect expression" of Hermitage is, when the producers themselves have disagreed about this for centuries?

While adding spices (other than salt and pepper) and marinade to steak is heresey, it is doubly so for onglet, as those flavors will inevitably mask the pungent flavor of that particular cut of beef. A little salt, a little pepper and a little fire. That's all it needs.