The Old Foodie

Thanks Chris, I'll see if I can get any information from those sources. Perhaps it was a favourite dish of Pres. Grant's family? The official menu details aside, as a recipe for the dish appeared in several cookbooks of the time, I find it hard to believe that there is not some informal record of it somewhere.

You probably already know <a href = "http://staff-www.uni-marburg.de/~gloning/kobu.htm">Thomas Gloning's site</a> on Cookery and dietetic texts from the Middle Ages to 1800. Transcriptions of some good stuff there, in several languages. Have any of you food-history experts and enthusiasts been over to the thread on <a href = "http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=89895&hl=" >Shoo-fly potatoes</a> ? They seem to be a mystery - but there are an awful lot of you eGulleters in the USA, so you should be able to tell me some more about them!

My most serious grudge is the sort of labelling that is technically correct, but clearly meant to mislead, such as one that screams "NO CHOLESTEROL", when the product is still full of other saturated fats. Does that happen in the U.S as well?

Absolutely certain the wording is "shoo-fly potatoes". The image of the menu is somewhere in the American Memory Archive (but I cant for the life off me find the exact location right now! When I do I will post it), and I am looking at my print-off of it now. I am giving away my Fourth of July blog posting here (well, part of it anyway), but the menu transcription is : "Banquet given to the President by the Commissioners and Board of Finance of the Centennial Commission at Belmont Fairmont Park, July 4th 1873" POTAGES Consomme au Nid d’Hirondelles Puree de Choux-fleur a la Reine Old Amontillado Sherry HORS D’OEVRES Petits Bouchees aux Queues d’Ecrivisses Johannisberg Cabinet Ruedesheimer Berg RELEVES Chapon Braisee a la Monte Christo Filet de Boeuf a la Godared Filet de Boeuf a la Belmont Petits Pois Tomatoes farcies Shoo-fly potatoes CHAMPAGNE Union League Cabinet Louis Roederer, Carte Blanche Geisler & Co., Dry Sillery. ENTREES Filets de Cannetons a la Rgence Poulets en Supreme a la Toulouse Pain de Gibier a la Charles XV. VIN Chateau Larose GIBIER Becasses roties, sur Canapee Salade de Laitue de Tomates VIN Champagne frappe Mumm’s extra dry GLACE Corbeille de Fruits Corbeille de fleurs PIECES MONTEES Charlotte Parisienne Chalets rustic a la Fairmount Pyramid en Nougat Historic. VIN Grand Vin Chambertins. ENTREMETS Pudding Diplomate glacee DEMI TASSE Cigars de Havanne It was the oddity of something called "shoo-fly potatoes" amongst all those classical consommes and bouchees etc that stood out to me.

Explanation due to sense of humour - now that's the sort of explanation I love! I would also love to find some more evidence of the dish, or the gadget too. Come on the rest of you! I dont believe that no-one else has heard of this dish or this gadget. Janet

I think it is unlikely to be a typo/conflation - not on behalf of the chef responsible for this specific menu anyway (an official presidential menu) - there are recipes with that name in several books, and apparently there was a piece of kitchen equipment to cut them. There would have to be some other connection than the starting phonetic "shoo" surely? If they were spiral cut (and we might never know, unless someone finds an old description) - perphaps they were named because they looked like those long strips of sticky fly paper that used to hang from the ceiling???

So why Shoo-Fly potatoes? I can see how a sweet molasses-y pie would get the name.

The term appears in 1878 inn the recipe which I am using in my blog post next week (I'm giving the game away here, but what the hell, I'm among friends, right?) It is from “Practical Cooking and Dinner Giving. A Treatise Containing Practical Instructions in Cooking; in the Combination and Serving of Dishes; and in the Fashionable Modes of Entertaining at Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner” (1878) by Mary Foote Henderson (which is on the <a href = "http://digital.lib.msu.edu/projects/cookbooks/">Feeding America</a> site. SHOO-FLY POTATOES. There is a machine which comes for the purpose of cutting shoo-fly potatoes; it costs two dollars and a half. The potatoes are cut into long strips like macaroni, excepting that the sides are square instead of round. They are thrown into boiling lard, sprinkled with salt as soon as done, and served as a vegetable alone, or as a garnish around meat. Sounds like French Fries to me.

Why thankyou Rodney, you will get a personally signed copy if it ever gets that far. As for desserts to follow "Asian" style meals - which is off this specific topic I know - fruits poached in a lemon-grass or ginger flavoured syrup work well, or lime and coconut tarts, or gin and tonic sorbet or limoncello sorbet are good. Back on topic - I have somewhere a chocolate/orange 'pot au creme' recipe - but I cant tell you the recipe off the top of my head, I'll have to find it. By the way - what are "butterscotch chips"? I have seen them mentioned a few times on eGullet. Are they like butterscotch candy, chopped up? Wouldn't you get enough flavour with brown-sugar/butter/cream/or golden syrup?

Here's my contribution - a favourite around here - a coconut cream one, great to finish an Asian-style meal. 300 ml Coconut cream (canned) 400 gm tin condensed milk 6 egg yolks 1 cup shredded coconut (preferrably fresh, but packet is OK). It works even without this, if you want a smooth texture. Mix in the usual way, set the ramekins (makes 6) in a roasting dish and pour boiling water in to above half way up the ramekins. Cook as usual, chill, eat. Even better if you make some caramel (as for creme caramel) and put it in the ramekins first. Or you can infuse the coconut cream with lemon grass or cardamom or something else first, if you want to keep more of an Asian theme. Very rich!

I have just come across a dish called "Shoo-fly potatoes" in a nineteenth century American menu. I am most intrigued. Even on the other side of the world we have heard of a thing called "Shoo-fly Pie" (even if the details remain mysterious), but I have never, ever heard of Shoo-Fly Potatoes. I have found a few recipes in 19th C American cookbooks, and they seem like French Fries to me, so perhaps I am missing something. Your comments will be most welcome as to the name, the dish, if anyone still makes it - and anything else! [The menu will be in my blog posting on the Fourth, if you are interested. I've got time to change it if I get any new info!] Thanks, Janet

If you will accept a contribution from "Down Under", this is my own recipe - developed after I fell in love with maple syrup after a visit to Canada some years ago. Maple syrup is available here, but mostly just used for pancakes. I measure the beans by eye, but I guess the quantity is (in imperial measures) about a pint and a half of pre-cooked beans. Occasionally if I'm in a hurry I use the plain, unflavoured canned beans - any sort works, but I like the big red ones. The beans, quantity as guessed above 2 cloves of garlic 1 large onion a few slices of bacon, chopped up; or a ham bone or a pork hock. 1 tablespoon of fat - duck fat is great, to pre-soften the garlic, onion, bacon 3 tablespoons of yellow mustard seeds 2 bay leaves 2 tablespoons tomato paste 100ml maple syrup (I have used brown sugar, but not as good) "enough" water or stock to cover. sometimes a little fresh chili, depending on the guests (I like a lot) mix it all up and simmer for a while. The mustard seeds add a nice texture. I often cook a large batch of beans then freeze them in convenient amounts.

I just found a recipe for a drink made with made with maple vinegar, from a Canadian book of 1857: In the hot weather, a nice cooling drink can be made with a quart of hot water, a large spoonful of maple syrup, and as much vinegar as will sharpen it; when quite cold, grate a little nutmeg on it, or drop in a little essence of lemon, to flavour it. This is very refreshing in harvest weather. The recipe follows the instructions for making the maple vinegar itself, and I have posted it at <a href = "http://theoldfoodie.blogspot.com/2006/07/extra-extra-maple-syrup-and-canada-day.html/">Canada Day and Maple Syrup</a> Sounds delicious! Is maple vinegar still made and sold in Canada? I got absolutely addicted to maple syrup on a short visit a few years ago. We can buy it here but no real choice of quality or range.

Charles Dickens' books are full of wonderful food scenes, dialogues, images. There is a book of modernised recipes based on or inspired by passages from his stories - "Mr Pickwick's plentiful portions : the Charles Dickens' cookbook for today by Brenda Marshall"

Andrea, I read once a definition of intelligence as "the ability to hold two absolutely opposing ideas in the mind simultaneously, without self-destructing" Dont know who said it, but it sounds like you and cake/pie. That must mean you are a super-intelligent eater (and from reading back up the thread there are a few more of you out there). This is fun - now that I understand that the unqualified "pie" means "sweet pie", I can join in. I am a whimpering blob of schizophrenic fence-hoppyness too - as long as the PIE has 2 crusts (otherwise it is a TART, or something called a pot-pie, which research [mine] may prove is not really, truly a genuine pie at all). Oh - and the pastry must be made with butter alone, or a mixture of butter and lard. I feel so much better now I have leapt the language barrier.

For its curiosity value, for all of you whether you love or hate marrow, it was so prized in olden timesthat it was felt necessary to be able to counterfeit it. From An Anonymous Andalusian manuscript of the Thirteenth Century “The Making of Marrow Without Marrow, Which No One Will Suspect”. “Take fresh kidney meat and remove its veins, and peel off the spleen its under-skin; take one part of the spleen, and five parts of clean kidney fat; pound all this until it is like brains, and stuff this into tripe or large intestines or cane tubes or the like, and boil it in a pot of tafaya; take it out and empty it into a serving dish and serve it hot.”

I do not understand this discussion. Cake = sweet thing, various flavourings, with or without icing/frosting/fondant (dont go there); usually eaten in dessert situations. Pie = 2 layers of pastry with MEAT inbetween. Usually eaten in savoury situations, and at football. I speak from a position of authority. I am born a Yorkshire lass, so pastry and pies are in my blood. We probably actually invented them,but will never be able to prove it. I am also writing the definitive, authoritative book on pies. An entire chapter is to be devoted to exploring this inexplicable American habit of the unqualified "pie" meaning some sort of wussy sweet single pastry TART-like thing. I have held off from this discussion for a long time, for reasons of modesty as well as terror of the reaction from all of you "over there", but I can do so no longer. You can read the Chapter headings, and the Prologue on the Companion site to my blog at The Pie: A Celebratory History Chapter 1 explains it all really. If you read it, you'd know how wrong you all are, and how silly this discussion really is.

I suppose then, it's also quite inappropriate to lick the plate as well? edited to add: Welcome, Devagi! ← Of course, there is an inherent danger in making food TOO finger-lickin' good, as William Kitchener indicated in his "Cook's Oracle" in 1845 - in his little piece on that great Anglo-Indian thing called a "devil" . I posted a transcription of the piece on the Adventures in Eating forum, at http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=88987 Take care with that delicious finger-food!

I am speaking here strictly as an amateur who loves baking but does not do icing. I am puzzled. Perhaps one of the professionals posting here can de-confuse me. Leaving aside the apparent possibility that there are individuals who LIKE the flavour and/or texture of fondant, the arguments FOR it seem to be, that it looks good, provides a good platform for decoration, and keeps good (and keeps the cake good) - my question is: There are some incredibly clever and imaginative pastry artists out there - Surely it is possible for professional bakers to come up with something that looks good, provides a good platform for decoration, keeps good (and keeps the cake good) AND tastes good as well? Can someone please explain why this is so difficult?

Here it is: 6 ripe unwaxed lemons, scrubbed (thick skinned ones work best) 3 tab sea salt about 500ml olive oil other flavourings if you wish - roasted garlic cloves, tablespoon or so of paprika, bay leaf, a chilli etc. Slice the lemons thinly, removing the pips as you go Spread them on freezer trays and sprinkle generously with the salt Freeze 24 hours (or as long as you like ...). Thaw out, drain off the salty stuff, rinse quickly if you wish, and drain them well. Put in your jars, cover with oil by at least 1/2 inch, and leave at least 3 weeks. Great thing No. 1: You can slice any leftover lemon from other dishes, sprinkle with a bit of salt, and put in a freezer container - when you have enough, you put them in oil. No more lemon halves going grungy in the fridge. (Of course you can freeze them unsalted and use them to make marmalade too, and I do this by choice as the freezing softens the rind so easier to cut up and less cooking needed so more flavour in the final product.) I guess it could be done with the lemon halves left over from squeezing too - the pulp is not necessary, it is the rind that is the thing here. I did it with limes once - good flavour but the colour was unappetising - went a sort of murky green. Great thing No. 2 - the oil is fantastic in salads or anything. It is almost worth making just for the oil! Great thing No.2 They keep for ages - I keep mine in the fridge because we live in a sub-tropical climate, but it is probably not necessary in cool places. Great thing No. 4 Makes a great gift - and can be prepared well in advance of the gift-giving occasion. Janet P.S edited to add another lemon preserving idea: you could crystallize the rinds of your excess lemons (not the pre-salted ones of course!) , maybe dip them in chocolate and give them as gifts, or serve with coffee.

A cookbook from a country that he hasn't already got "covered" - on the principle that you can never have too many cookbooks, and you can write something nice in the flyleaf.

Thanks girls! Miriam - I dont think the lemon-drying would work here in Qld without a drying gadget - summer is too humid, we'd just end up with mouldy lemons. I do "pickle" them in olive oil (in slices), after prior salting - it is very quick and easy, and you can only do a small amount at a time if thats all you need - will post the full method if you want. You mean like this? Quinces, What to make with them ← Pam - thanks for this, I'd better get on with it, the quince season is almost over. Janet

I forgot - there are lots of lovely honey cake recipes too.

Miriam, that verdurette sounds absolutely amazing! I have never come across anything like it - not even in very old cookbooks. I am using this recipe for "Tomato Figs" in a post to my blog next week, and it really intrigues me. It is from a Scientific American magazine in 1852. Tomato Figs. The following is the method of preserving tomatoes in Bermuda, and thereby manufacturing a sweet preserve something like figs:- Take six pounds of sugar to one peck (or sixteen pounds) of the fruit, scald and remove the skin of the fruit in the usual way, cook them over a fire, their own juice being sufficient without the addition of water, until the sugar penetrates and they are clarified, they are then shaken out, spread on dishes, flattened, and dried in the sun. A small quantity of the syrup should be occasionally sprinkled over them whilst drying, after which pack them down in boxes, treating each layer with powdered sugar. The syrup is afterwards concentrated and bottled for use. They keep from year to year, and retain their flavor surprisingly, which is nearly that of the best quality of fresh figs. The pear-shaped or single tomatoes answer the purpose best. Ordinary brown sugar may be used, a large portion of which is retained in the syrup. I've had them dried, and had them in syrup, but this is very unusual. Has anyone ever done anything like this with tomatoes?

A second for lavendar (and cheers for someone else who spells it with a terminal 'a') ← Yeah, but I just checked the OED and am obliged to advise that we are both terminally incorrect. I hope it pays to be humble. Send the money in. The OED also gives this as one of its supporting quotations: 1751 HILL Hist. Mat. Med. 424 Lavender has at all times been famous as a cephalic, nervous, and uterine medicine. Sound like an ideal ingredient for a wedding.