robert brown

If I were one of the NY forum hosts I wolud have pailed any posts that were based on any guide or restaurant book. That's cheating, as far as I'm concerned. I was all set to mention Harbin Inn. Nonetheless I didn't see any mention of the Mandarin Chinese on the east side of Broadway around 84th street(?).

Alberto, it was 'round about three years ago that we dined there. My wife recalls something in aspic (not a dandy) and I have a recollection of an appetizer of room-temperature or slightly cold small fish marinated in vinegar. The dishes struck us as overly-composed, too rafinee, perhaps. It invited comparison to great restaurants in other countries, which is a trait I find off-putting in a family-run restaurant in the Italian provinces or countryside I realize, however, that this could well be my hang-up. Now why this should turn me off when Miramonte l'Altro with its chef from Nantes and cuisine that is akin a great deal to that of French two-star cuisine does not is something I can't account for. So much of how we relate and react to a meal or a restaurant sometimes can't be convincingly verbalized in a way that makes sense to anyone else.

Based on my one lunch at dal Pescatore, I and my wife are detractors. We found the ambiance and the vibrations cold (in a way it showed the problem of tables being spread too far apart) and the food fussy, studied and souless. I admit this is based on one meal, and such will it remain unless I return by myself, which will never happen. Is there anyone else out there who shares my opinion?

Soon after opening the second and third floors of his restaurant, my wife and a friend spent a Saturday night in Laurent Tourandel's gourmand part of his BLT Fish. I didn't take notes since the experience was hardly noteworthy, but it's appropriate to note that New York's newest fish restaurant has sunk to the lower depths. The downstairs, which has been open for a few months is an intensely cacaphonous combination bistro and raw bar, while the upper two floors are a spare, contemporarily-designed restaurant. The menu follows the Craft forumula in that the species of fish are in one column and the sauces in another so that you can select the latter to go with the former. However, the three of us ordered a pink snapper cooked in a salt crust which they portioned out on two plates with two garnishes while throwing in a third and empty dish. Many salt grains migrated on to the flesh of the fish, making it close to inedible. Appetizers slipped my mind and desserts we bailed on. I noticed that the menu make light of offering "fish from around the world". What happened to sticking to produce from your own backyard, as they say? But listen, this is 21st-century dining in which the aspiring gourmand gets hijacked at every turn. Yes, I know, I know. I should go back since you shouldn't judge a restaurant with aspirations on one visit and a few dishes. The problem is, is that I don't like to dine alone.

I scoured the site for comments on Francois Simon's article in the Times yesterday on the NYC Michelin Guide. Did I miss any posts? Are all you " New York is the Restaurant Capital of the World" adherents going to let him get away with his saying in both a few and in so many words that NYC restaurant produce leaves something to be desired and if the raters will take this into account? Moderator's comment: We've moved a couple of posts over from the France forum, so they now appear as posted before Robert Brown's post. These were not posted in this topic when Robert made his post, although they bear an earlier time stamp.

I thought Jean-Georges was suppose to tell other people how to run a restaurant.

A friend of mine phoned Masa a few days ago for four seats at the Sushi bar for March 8. The Japanese woman who took the call asked him a lot of questions such as do you know what sushi is; do you know what it costs to dine here; do you know that we only serve fish; and are you allergic to any foods. My friend had no trouble obtaining the reservation and thought it was rather strange that the woman was asking so many questions. We wondered if customers were walking out before they finished; were complaining about the meal; or if they stiffed the restaurant or refused to pay the entire bill. Has anyone heard a similar story?

As co-forum host (but having nothing to do with organizing this chat), I want to say how bowled over I am by Igles and how grateful I am to Albiston for making it possible. I know how busy chefs (and their wives) are, so to be presented with the depth and quality of participation that we have here is a rare gift from Igles and Pia to eGullet. In return, all Albiston and I can ask for is that everyone who is within a fair distance from Igles' restaurant to please make the effort to have a meal or two there. I know I will. It's something I very much look forward to.

This is the first I heard that Point may have gone to Japan. There is someone I can try to ask who should know. I'll let you know what happens. Jean Delavayne is another chef often thought of as a progenator of La Nouvelle Cuisine. I think the Gault-Millau magazine started around 1970, but before that they published "La Guide Juillard, which as far as I know never mentioned "La Nouvelle Cuisine. My brother went to Bocuse and Troisgros in 1968 where they were probably making what Gault & Millau would have called "nouvelle cuisine".

Igles, how many times have people asked you if you have anything to do with Captain Corelli's Mandolin? I wish I had known about you last summer when I was in the Mantova area. But I'm not too worried as I am in Italy to dine quite often. I'll visit you soon. I have always been a fan of what seems to be your niche of preparing cuisine; the traditional base reinterpreted, but not "over the rainbow" so. In fact, I think my first meal of that sort was in 1982 outside of Milan at the Antica Osteria del Ponte where I took note of the Moulin de Mougins and Georges Blanc influences. Nonetheless, I have had so many wonderful meals (more Italian in nature) in that niche. So I am wondering, then, are there dozens, scores, or hundreds of restaurant chefs in Italy whom you consider working along your lines; i.e. what Albiston calls "creative cuisine based on territorial ingredients? Or is it a rather exclusive group? Maybe you could name a handful of chefs you feel most simpatico with in this regard. Also, I sympathize with Franco's statement about the lack of recognition (and patronage) that great chefs in Italy have to fight against. Among the food crazies I have gotten to know because of eGullet, it's a puzzlement to me why they keep going back to France (and now Spain) while totally ignoring Italy, which to my mind is the most gourmand country in the world (if you really understand what being gourmand is).

I had a French raw milk Vacherin that I bought from a tiny shop in the Nice old town. It's as much a poultry place as a cheese one. La Poulette is the name. They don't age themselves the 20-30 variety of cheeses they sell. Two days later I bought a French Vacherin from the famous cheese shop in Cannes, Ceneri, that had the store's label affixed on the box. It was clearly inferior to the one I bought in Nice. It reinforced my hypothesis that Ceneri puts out its cheeses too soon. Unfortunately I didn't have the time to order a French Vacherin from the great Bernard Antony, whose cheeses are impeccable. The moral of the story is that an affineur can mess up a cheese, and it is not always the cheese per se or the provenance of the cheese that totally accounts for its quality. Nonetheless, I will go back to trying a pasteurized Vacherin du Mont d'Or if I am in France before the season ends in March.

I understood Moby to mean that he is searching for a restaurant that dishes it out in the style of "no holds barred" that has all but disappeared. In other words a restaurant of grande luxe ambiance that serves a multitude of dishes, posesses a sizeable wine cellar, offers formal service with a full staff, and has at least a kitchen brigade of 20 cooks. He also wants the opportunity to exercise his gourmandness by putting together a well-chosen or well- conceived meal in the face of the copious selection and to find a wine or two that will go with the food and exhibit changing character with each dish. He doesn't want to be spoon-fed in a pre-determined fashion and, God forbid, served a procession of mediocre wines that someone has chosen for him. In other words, we should suggest establishments that offer a real Bacchanal replete with the rituals of fine dining. The more classic the cuisine the better. Lots of cheeses and desserts offered freely should be part of the experience. How, can anyone come up with as much as that as possible that's not far from London? That's the rub.

I haven't been to Lucas Carton, but the word seems to be that it's not what it was when Senderens was in his prime. Other than not friendly service at Ledoyen, the cuisine was exscellent; the ambiance historic and luxurious; and the prices not killer-like as at Gagnaire and Arpege. I think Jonathan Day dined there and liked it also. One caveat is that it was two years ago that I was there, and we all know that restaurants can change on a dime.

Moby, if I may butt in here: I've never been to Waterside Inn. It's convenient, so why not? Incy for inch, and I think Vedat would agree, Switzerland seems to be the best and almost last bastion of the way restaurants shoud be run. It's expensive, though, if you go to Rochat or Domaine du Chateauvieux,etc. Ledoyen struck me as somewhat like the good old days. Troisgros has the service and the choice, but to my mind the young Troisgros has mucked up the cuisine. Regsardless of where you go, though, you can't order the degustation menu.

Hey Miguel, what about me? I take eight pills in the morning, two at night, am soon to have a minor surgery, and have the two major epicurean maladies. Louisa is young and healthy; please don't waste a toast, as wonderful as she is. (Well okay then, I'll take the second glass).

Vedat, perhaps you should call your piece (or at least the L' Ambroisie part ) "Ode to a Dying Quail". When Pecaud is gone, and perhaps one or two others, what will be left? My guess is that L'Astrance will more likely be the model. What do you think? I have never dined at L'Ambroisie" and must say that we must go together before 2005 is out. I must not forget about Ledoyen where I did have a dinner not unlike the way I dined at the top level in the 1980s. But tell me: At Le Cinq, do you think your server told everyone to skip the white truffles? If it's becoming a case in which the maitre d'hotel changes his attitude for those he spots as truly gourmand, what will happen to the generation that is growing up on degustations and thus can never become gourmand?

But Vedat, you are a Sultan (see my recent post on truffles and dining in Piemonte). This time, as co-host of this forum, I thank you profoundly for yet another great post today. I know how much time you put in to this one and the Donostia post as well. I'm sorry I had to return to Nice, and Cy must be counting the days before he gets to Bergamo.

Ferran, I tell people I am not an aficionado of degustation menus, but that the only restaurant where it truly works is elBulli. This seems to me to be part of a larger phenomenon that your cuisine is so idiosyncratic that it, too, only seems to work as it unfolds at elBulli. It's hard to encounter your influences elsewhere and not make a comparison between the chef whose dish I am eating and yourself. Might you be the culinary equivalent of Jackson Pollock or Charlie Parker; someone whose production is such a leap forward that every chef you inspire can't help being thought of as a copier?

The discussion reminds me of a recent story of how a high school teacher in, I believe, Durham NC, analyzed published letters to the editor at the New York Times and was able to have his students submit them such that a huge relative percentage of them were indeed published in the paper. In the interest of those who were denied reservations at elBulli, I think that those who were successful in this endeavor post their letters to Luis. Then we can see if there are certain characteristics, approaches, buzz words, etc. that might resonate in such a way to produce a reservation in the future.

Uh oh, the exeception that proves the rule (or disproves it)? While my post is sort lof tongue in cheek, it did seem to me that forum hosts and avid posters all seemed to get reservations. I have to admit, however, that I haven't gone back to check this out.

I want everyone to know that the guy in black in the background is vmilor. His perception and wisdom in this thread is what make him such a great tablemate. His wife Linda, in the foreground, is the photographer and a great dining companion, too. The photographs and the commentary made this a report that comes so close to understanding the essence of these restaurants and what it must have been like to be in Vedat's and Linda's shoes. It makes you want to follow in their footsteps one by one, if not bite by bite.

Might there be a correlation between number of posts and success at getting a reservation? It sounds far out, if nor arbitrary, but think about it. Of course they would have to know somehow that one posts a lot on the site. (And I can't think of a better way to build traffic in the Spain/Portugal forum. )

I am hoping to write something about my dinner there last night. I'll try for tomorrow or Monday. All I found out about ownership was from one of the owners, a young Taiwanese fellow who came here when he was 4 years old. He owns the two places with his brother. They must be the sons of the Zen Palate people.

En route to buying two artichoke vinaigrettes at Lorenzo & Maria’s and a rotisserie chicken at Eli’s Manhattan, I saw on the NW corner of Third and 81st Street a new restaurant that had replaced one of these yuppie bar-restaurant places (Mad River Café, perhaps?) called Gobo. It bills itself as a Zen vegetarian. I looked at the menu they had posted on the exterior, and the offerings looked intriguing to me, if not leaning in places toward a bit convoluted. Among them were a salad of kale, seaweed, beets and candied walnut salad ($9.); steamed spinach dumplings ($5); a small plate (one of a dozen) of avocado tartare with wasabi lime sauce ($8.) and among 14 main courses butternut squash risotto with toasted almonds ($16). The interior was de rigueur Asian blonde. If I had wanted to cheat on my wife at 5:45 P.M., I could have been the restaurant’s first client ever. Instead I asked for a menu and who was behind the restaurant. The hostess told me that there was a Gobo on Sixth Ave. and 12th Street. If anyone has been to the original Gobo, what do you think of it? I imagine I will go to this one over the weekend and try to report back. The UES has some of the worst restaurants in town. Therefore I am hoping that this is a good, honest and interesting addition to the neighborhood

Doc, regarding Rafa, it's relatively slim pickings in summer, but still great, especially the cigales. However, go at lunch because at dinner there will be a lot of customers and he will be too busy to talk except, perhaps, if you go right when he opens for dinner. He's a bit of a character and his wife is sweet.