robert brown

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About Laserre, it has been awhile, but less than 15 years. It's been a has-been for a long time. I would forget it.

I am in the camp that believes a chef's food should speak for itself. I don't like chefs making a tour of the dining room. I see what it does to many people who are visibly nervous and can't say much beyond "very good", sometimes untruthfully. When I see a chef walk into the room and start going around, I feel I have to come up with something seemingly intelligent to ask or state. I somehow always manage to acquit myself with something sort of witty or off-center, but the worse the meal is, the harder it is to come up with something. I could give you a long list of the circulation habits of famous chefs. I think the best approach is that practiced by chefs who make themselves visible and accessible if you want to talk with them, but in such a way that you can leave the restaurant without his being aware of it. I can admit, however, that if I have had a glorious meal and that the chef will know I'm not bullshitting, I am pleased to make him momentarily happy because it's only human, no matter how great or how experiences you are, to receive genuine praise.

Of course you can always ask if the chef hasn't already showed his face or marched around the dining room like a matador or a long-distnace runner taking his victory lap. If you don't see the chef before the end of your meal and then ask to meet hin, be prepared to hear "the chef has already gone home". There's a good chance it means he wasn't there in the first place.

Welcome to eGullet, fortedei. It's apparent already that you are going to be a significant addition to the Italy forum, especially. Are you living in Forte dei Marmi? Are you a boy, or are you a girl? Who are you?

Lana, we have had a tasting menu discussion going on in the French section, but as the world's greatest detractor of them, I always welcome new insights to read. Tasting menus are becomingthe " future prospects of cuisine" because of the economy of scale they offer. There is no other reason I can think of. I still believe that my "no-win" rationale best describes what's wrong with them. The reason that the locals don't take them is because they view their local restaurants differently than we do. They often want to stop by for a couple of courses and leave. We've all seen it when a few people enter the restaurant at 2:30 or 9:45 and spend a maxiumum of 90 minutes before leaving. The fact is that there are increasing less people like you who are developing their gastronomic sechel primarily because "innovations" like tasting menus are depriving them of the opportunity. My tasting menu thought for today is that you can never hit the culinary jackpot such as is possible with a three-four course, full-size portion meal. To repeat myself, two of the four meals I have at el Bulli were as memorable as the ones I had when great restaurants in France offered fixed menus, which were really nothing but chefs choosing a meal for you of full-portion dishes. Otherwise you ordered a la carte from 32-40 choices.

It's early in the season. Vacherin hasn't reached its peak. In fact, degustibus asked Bernard Antony (Affineur to the Stars) about getting some vacherin fermier for this weekend and he told him that he didn't deem it ready just yet. Anyway I like it unctuous; i.e. best dished out with a spoon.

The principal reason I don't order tasting menus as a matter of course is that they are almost "no win" situations. If I like a dish, there's never enough. If I don't, it devalues the meal. I have yet to have a many-course tasting menu where even a majority of the dishes enthrall me with the possible exception of two of the four dinners I have had at el Bulli. At the Citadels of the tasting menu, the French Laundry and Per Se, I didn't have a meal that came any near so many of the standard appetizer, main course, dessert meals that I had years ago in France and more recently in Italy. As for putting yourself in the hands of a chef hoping for the best in both senses of the phrase, zy gesunt. I don't want any chef I don't know well using me to try out new dishes or to serve me something I'm not in the mood for or basically don't like. Nothing is better than going to a restaurant with a good reputation having target dishes in mind to order, even if you are there for the first time. Furthermore, I have encountered a fair share of unscrupulous chefs who aren't trustworthy. There is also the phenomenon of chefs not being aware of which of their dishes is more apt to go over better than others. I have. after many years, trained myself to look at a menu long and hard enough to get all the ducks in a row and use that as the point of departure to pepper the order taker with questions. I just find this better than leaving my meal more up to chance than need be. Doc, I meant that had Robuchon used the same format at his Paris restaurant of his heyday that he uses in Las Vegas, the restaurant at that time would not have earned three stars, nor would it have been held in the esteem that it was by real gastronomes. That Michelin is giving three stars to all-tasting-menu restaurants is a sign of the times, which you can make of as you wish.

Chefs want you to order the tasting menu. It makes their work a lot easier. It's why, according to R.W. Apple's story on Las Vegas dining, that now Joel Robuchon is extolling the virtues of tasting menus, which is all that he is offering in his restaurant there. Would he have dared to do that at his Michelin three-star restaurant that he had until 1995? Of course not, and for two good reasons: He would have lost a star or two and the gourmands would have run him out of town. Another reason not spoken of, I believe, is that the maitres d'hotel don't want you to bust their chops, which is exactly what those who are comfortable in their gourmand skins should be doing. They don't want you working or plumbing the depths of an a la carte menu or asking too many questions. They (or rather their superiors) want to take out the interplay, or the dialogue, and the challenge of ordering, which plays such a findamental role in gourmandship, because it takes up too much time and holds the possibility of your asking questions they have to run into the kitchen to get the answers to.

Vedat, implied in your sentiments is that another gourmand's sanctuary has possibly bitten the dust. Inexorably they are riding into the sunset, racing towards extinction, or however you want to put it. At least we'll find out together. Let's tell them we want to dine in tribute to Vittorio and eat they way he would have wanted us to.

Lana, thanks for playng catch-up. It was worth the wait. You rnlightnened me even about aspects of some of my experiences.

The obituaries state that Vittorio had been sick for a long time. He looked fine four months ago. Regardless, another classically-gourmand restaurant may be about to go by the wayside. I'll keep you posted.

This is truly bad news for me, vmilor, Jonathan Day and God knows how many others. I was late to the greatness of da Vittorio; I wish I had started going there 20 years ago. I had only four meals there, but they were enough to convince me that the restaurant, more than any other I was aware of, tugged harder at the strings of a gastronome's heart than any other. It was also Vedat Milor's favorite restaurant in Italy for just that reason. When you went to the recently-closed premises a few blocks from the train station in the lower part of Bergamo, the sense of generosity, meticulousness, and wanting to be certain that you were about to eat on the highest of gastronomic heights was all over the room. Our last visit was with Jonathan Day and his Melissa. It was my second meal in two days, and I guess it was because of that that Vittorio finally recognized me by giving me a big slap on the back when he visited our table. As he didn't speak English and I not Italian, I did manage to convey about returning in autumn for truffles. We are returning for truffles with vmilor, wife Linda and my wife's cousin and his wife, but to the new Cantalupa outside the city where one can also spend the night. I was counting on a big, happy,blow-out event, but that's off the table since it's 17 days away; the family (literal and otherwise) will still be mourning and the big guy won't be there. It's strange, but I often thought and believed that Vittorio wouldn't be happy leaving his home of 40 years in the city and in that unpretentious, tastefully luxurious restaurant that without doubt felt to him like a comfortable,well-broken-in pair of slippers. My guess is that he died of a broken heart

The problem is that we don't know how many times (and how many at a time) the Michelin people visited each restaurant, and with the remarkable inconsistency that characterizes every notable restaurant in the city, don't expect a lot of rhyme or reason to the hierarchy or that the hierarchy will come anywhere near to yours, whoever you may be.

My feeling is that it's all relative, almost as if the exercise exists in a vacuum. What has happened is that Michelin decided to take its 70-year old star nomenclature and export it to New York, but without any relevance to how it has developed its patina of reputation and notoriety in Europe. To older, seasoned gastronomes it most likely will feel empty except as this is the way Michelin inspectors feel about a given New York restaurant vis a vis the other New York restaurants the guide lists (and it's hard to express feelings or opinions in a Michelin rating). Anyone who takes any of the three-star restaurants in the New York Michelin list and thinks that means it compares favorably to Arpege, el Bulli, or Le Calendre is wildly mistaken. Until chefs in New York solve the produce shortcomings and the greed factor, favorable comparisons along that line can't happen.

Ah yes, the vagaries of eating in France.

This week's report speaks of a small increase in demand that is in concert with a small increase in suppy. Overall, however, there are not enough truffles to keep up with demand. What is coming on to the market is of improving quality. While the site lists the same prices as last week (2250 euros per kilo for purchases under half a kilo and 2000 for orders more than half a kilo), prices were moving up towards the end of the week.

I guess it's up to me to break the logjam. In a more serius vein, I intend to have a meal there in a few weeks and will chime in at that time.

Just so no one feels slighted, I now recall that the reason I received a reply from Michelin's Derek Brown (and he's no relation) is that I brought his attention to eGullet, for which he thanked me.

Jeanne, I'm sorry, but hardly surprised, to read about your meal. Buried somewhere http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...5984&hl=Maximin is a dinner my wife and I had with two very experienced eaters. Our experience was not quite as mightmarish as yours, but close to it. I wrote to Michelin as well and received a note back from the then-editor Derek Brown. Apparently earlier this year, Maximin scaled down the restaurant and renamed it slightly. That, however, doesn't seem at all to be the source of your problems. I would first think of anti-Americanism as a possible cause, but to have that attitude in the south of France is suicidal. But that may be exactly what Maximin is. His talent is enormous and his mind is possibly irrational.

Marisa is a no-brainer, of course. Eat there twice, then. Corte Sconto was the hot place 20 years ago, which was when I went there. It's a pleasant place, but I have no idea if the food has held up. Use the time with Alvise in his car to discuss your meal. It's the kind of place where they speak the offerings and just keep bringing the food out. If I had it to do over, I would go with a bigger appetite and make sure I only had fish from the lagoon (no Norwegian smoked salmon!!!) including a whole fish even if it's from the Adriatic. I don't think they get a real big turnover, which can be the kiss of death in a fish restaurant in terms of freshness. Maybe because of the holiday season, there will good traffic there. Under the right circumstances, you should be able to eat well. It was just very dreary when we were there. But New Year's eve in Venice, why worry?

I am sorry for getting distracted and taking my eye of the ball in terms of helping our man have the meal of a lifetime. I'm not fsmiliar with the cost of a meal at L'Ambroisie. I recall that many years ago it was the most expensive three-star in Paris. Now it doesn't seem to be. While I haven't been, every indication is that this is the one. You should also know that it is impossible to get a reservation for dinner, but not for lunch.

No, it's my fault. I wrote something and didn't go over it before I posted it. I thoght I was making it clear that it was Per Se all the way through.

I meant to talk about the maitre d'hotel at Per Se, assuming that everyone would know that the 9-course tasting menu is a Keller offering. That sure was presumptuous of me.

I think I wrote about the commonality of the French Laundry and Taillevent. Although markedly different in many ways, they both appeal and are geared to, people who don't want to feel they are out of their element. There's hardly anything not noble about that. Per Se is, of course another. As far as my preferences go, I don't need a maitre d'hotel spieling off about the justification for the nine-course tasting menu and otherwise treating me like I've never had an ambitious restaurant visit in my life. Arpege is not a vegetarian retaurant, although you can order all vegetable dishes if you want. Passard's best-known dish is the homard au vin jaune. You will find poultry dishes there as well. I have had three magnificent meals there in the last 2-1/2 years. It is very expensive and very generous at the same time.