David Ross

I wish I wasn't a few thousand miles away or else I would drive a huckleberry pie over to you. I'm not sure if your restaurants in New York will serve many fresh huckleberries this year. I know that we, the Northwest, sell a lot of our huckleberries to the Northeast restaurant trade and our supply this Summer is going to be lower than last year. We had a very hot early June and a scorching July. That didn't bode well for our huckleberry crop. They grow at high mountain altitudes and they prefer a warm daytime temperature but cool nights. The hot summer basically scalded the berries. Our local newspaper even reported that the bears are a bit crabby right now because they aren't finding their normal diet of huckleberries and are causing some extra problems for campers. We always compete with the bears when picking huckleberries but this year it seems the struggle is more intense. Last year I bought a gallon bag of fresh huckleberries for $35. This year the cheapest price I have found is $49.95. Such is the cycle of supply and demand. If you can't find a huckleberry pie in New York, give these folks a call in Spokane, Washington: White Box Pies, 509-927-8850, 520 S Pines Rd # 4, Spokane Valley, WA 99206. I don't know for sure, but they may ship frozen huckleberry pies. They are serving fresh huckleberry pies right now and they are usually in the $20-$25 range for a whole pie. Good luck.

Thanks. The original idea was going to be to stuff the braised beef into little ravioli pockets. Well that idea didn't go far. I sure wasn't going to stuff a couple hundred ravioli on a hot Saturday afternoon. The braised beef on top of the pasta turned out just fine.

Last night was a beef and mushroom ragu over pappardelle. I had a chuck roast in the freezer that I was aching to cook, and although it's still hot outside, I was getting edgy for some cold-weather comfort food. I braised the beef in red wine for about 12 hours at 250 in the oven. I added some brown crimini mushrooms for the last hour of braising. I had this little Mom and Pop Italian grocery store on my list of stores to check out and I'm glad I finally went there. They had tons of different imported pastas and I bought this thick pappardelle. Not exactly a hot August nights type dinner but it sure was good.

This is a good site for checking out Las Vegas menus. Most of the menus include prices to give you a general idea of what the cost might be. http://www.menusearch.net/lasvegas/

When I was in Las Vegas in May I went to a seminar about the dining scene in Las Vegas that was hosted by Barbara Fairchild, Editor of Bon Apetit, and on the panel were Alan Richman, Max Jacobsen who writes for Las Vegas Life magazine and John Curtas. Both John and Max bemoaned the fact that as residents of Las Vegas, they wish for the day when there are more local, neighborhood restaurants. There are some, but not a lot, which is very unique to a city with a couple of million residents. Ling-if you are renting a car, you may want to drive over to the Chinatown area. It is to the west of the strip, only about a 10 minute drive from the Wynn/Treasure Island/Venetian area. There are some good Chinese restaurants that have reasonable prices. Personally, I don't go to Las Vegas to seek out local type restaurants. I go there because it's a playground of fine dining all within a few short miles on the strip. Like BryanZ mentioned earlier, I'd save my money and do it right by going to some of the better restaurants in the large strip resort hotels. I can't think of anyplace else where you'll find so many great dining choices in such a compact piece of real estate.

David, you know John Curtas?? I never met him ... yet. ← John is a great guy, very friendly and probably the top restaurant critic in Las Vegas. An attorney by trade, he does a regular show called "Food for Thought," on KNPR, the local public radio station. You can catch podcasts of his shows on their website. John also does a lot of food writing. By the way Ling, I'd advise against going to David Burke's new place at The Venetian. John did not give it very good marks in a recent column. In fact, he basically told his readers and listeners to shy away from the place.

Oops, I meant to say 'Stack' restaurant at The Mirage not Mix, the Ducasse temple at Mandalay Bay. Both Fix at Bellagio and Stack at The Mirage are trendy hip dining spots that attract a younger crowd. The food is good, even though some of the presentations can be a bit overly done. Casual, loud, fun and in the not too expensive range.

BryanZ is right when he mentions that there aren't a lot of fine dining options in Las Vegas in the price 'B' category. Unfortunately, if you want a good dining experience these days you'll pay for it, especially in any of the fine dining restaurants in the big strip resorts. I would avoid Olives-even with reservations you still have to wait sometimes for your table. I find the staff overly impressed with themselves and the fact that they are working in a restaurant owned by a celebrity chef. I don't think the food is better than average. If you don't mind the trendy, young Hollywood crowd, Fix at Bellagio and Mix at The Mirage, both owned by the same company, offer good American fare. It is not as expensive as the finer dining spots at Bellagio, but it's not cheap. There burger sliders, prime steaks and seafood appetizers are pretty good, and the cocktails are really popular. Bradley Ogden can reach very close into the price range of L'Atelier and nearly into the reaches of Guy Savoy and Robuchon. But it is probably the top restaurant in town for New American style cuisine. I know that Boulud Brasserie at Wynn recently lost their head chef. I haven't checked with my friend, John Curtas the dining guru of KNPR in Las Vegas, but I know that Bould was closed earlier this summer for remodeling and I believe a bit of retooling before welcoming the new chef. I am sure if Boulud hired the chef they are talented, just something to consider. You may want to try The Burger Bar at Mandalay Bay. It doesn't sound to fancy, and it certainly isn't in terms of the decor or the scope of the menu. But if you are in the mood for a Kobe burger with a slab of foie gras on it, or a burger of grass-fed beef with a nice cheese on it, you can't miss. Don't forget the 'Two Hot Tamales' of the early days of Food Network programming, Mary Sue Miliken and Susan Feniger. Their Border Grill at Mandalay Bay is really great. Not too expensive authentic Mexican. And even at dinner, sitting on the outside patio is quite nice. For a nice dim sum lunch or casual Chinese dinner, try 'Noodles' at Bellagio. It's stuck back in a corner but is very good and not too expensive, certainly not nearly as expensive as the fine dining Chinese restaurants in town. I prefer the pastries at Lenotre in Paris Las Vegas over Jean-Phillipe Patisserie at Bellagio. The other pastry shop at Paris is also quite good. I always stop by one of these three pastry shops to take a treat back to the room for a very late night sweet snack. There are just so many different options, take some time to search the web for menus and prices before making your decisions on where to go. You can't go wrong with these wonderful opinions at eGullet about Las Vegas dining. Have a wonderful time and let us know if you have more questions.

I agree with your thoughts on Sara. I thought she showed good skills in the kitchen as the Executive Chef on her team. I like the way she stuck to her guns and dealt with Howie's frustrations. Although he slammed the oven door, he took Sara's direction and she went on with the dinner. She had a bit of a brain fart last week when she presented her 'seafood burger' wrapped in lettuce-Boulud said it wasn't really a burger because it wasn't presented on a bun-but I think it wasn't so much the flavors as she was off the mark with making a 'burger' that fit within the theme of the quickfire challenge. There's always surprises when we get down this deep into the competition and I wish all them well. It would probably be a choice moment in reality television to see the reaction on Hung or Howie's faces if Sara beat them out. That camera shot would probably show up on one of VH-1's '100 Top Moments in Reality TV" part 36 or something.

Here are two dishes that use my creamed corn recipe. While I love creamed corn on it's own, it's also a great recipe as a base for many other dishes. Here is a Rack of Lamb with a Corn Pudding. I used the creamed corn recipe and added an egg and a bit of flour. Then I baked/poached the pudding in the oven for about 30 minutes. Then a Creamed Corn and Oyster Chowder with Sauteed Dungeness Crab. I took the basic creamed corn recipe and added fish stock, clams, diced new potatoes and some Cajun seafood seasoning.

Last night I made a Lobster Salad. I add capers, shallots, haricot vert, new potatoes and black olives, then dress it with homemade mayonnaise. Then a seafood entree, Sauteed Dungeness Crab on a Creamed Corn and Clam Stew. I have my own recipe for creamed corn, (see our thread about creamed corn for the recipe), then I add seafood stock, clams and diced potatoes. It's basically a creamy corn chowder. I was going to make a crab cake, but just sauteed some fresh Dungeness crab meat. The for dessert was an Apricot Tart in Toasted Hazelnut Crust with a layer of Smoked Cheddar Pastry Cream. In the background is a garnish of a Toasted Hazelnut Tuille with Vanilla Ice Cream. There are a few other photos in the "What's for Dessert?" thread.

Hah! How perfect-"I coulda been a conteda." Rocco shall never hear the end of it. If you go to the Top Chef website you can link over to a video of "after the show," with Colicchio and Rocco giving their thoughts on the Tre booting. At one point Rocco is asked how he feels about Bourdain excoriating Rocco in his blog. Rocco was actually pretty cool about it when he answered, "certainly I've given him enough stuff to talk about me." In other words, I think Rocco knows he's made some interesting television appearances and given Bourdain plenty of fodder for his pen. At another point, a e-mail from a female viewer is read, asking Rocco if he's single. What that has to do with Top Chef I don't have a clue. But Rocco's answer was priceless-"I really don't know about that." Huh? Isn't that a yes or no question?

Ted-would you be so kind and share the Scallop and Shrimp recipe? That looks really delicious!

Last night I made one of my favorite recipes-A fruit tart in a pastry crust made with toasted hazelnuts, a layer of pastry cream with smoked cheddar, and instead of the normal apples, I used fresh apricots. The apricots actually turned out better than when I have used apples. I pre-baked the tart shell and then spooned some of the cooled pastry cream into the shell. The tart shell is my basic pastry crust recipe with some toasted hazelnuts added. The pastry cream is a basic recipe with some smoked Tillamook cheddar stirred in at the last minute of cooking. I blanched the apricots in hot water for a few minutes then put them in an ice water bath. Then I peeled off the skin, leaving the apricots whole. Then I poached the apricots in a mixture of water, sugar, some orange liquer, a vanilla bean and a cinnamon stick. The apricots naturally start to split in half after about 10 minutes in the poaching liquid, so it was very easy to cut them in half and take out the pit. I let the apricots cool before adding them on top of the pastry cream. It wasn't totally necessary, but I thought it would be nice to serve the tart with some vanilla ice cream and a toasted hazelnut tuille cookie. The cookie was another taste of toasted hazelnuts.

Since we seem to be living in a time of instant celebrity, I think all the final contestants on Top Chef, er, the top 8 or so, will probably be successful in the food industry in some manner. People will go to Tre's restaurant just for the opportunity to eat food made by a 'celebrity' from Top Chef. I bet Tre could care less about that fact, but he's probably perceptive enough to realize that regardless of what happened this week, it's one more positive bullet point to put on his cooking resume. Being reasonably young, I think he's got a great future ahead of himself, and I see him staying true to himself as a cook-not venturing into the three-ring Rocco/Bertolli frozen Italian entree circus. If you go over to the Guy Savoy thread you'll see a review from BryanZ about his recent dining experience at the eponymous Las Vegas temple of Savoy's art. Bryan mentions that the 'bread boy,' Joshua, was more than happy to engage them in gossip about Hung and his turn on Top Chef. So even at such a sacred chapel of haute French Cuisine as Guy Savoy, the celebrity of Hung's appearance on Top Chef has found it's way into the dining room. I think the finalists have been handed a huge career boost by appearing on Top Chef. Now it's just up to them to take the football and run with it.

Yes, I was talking about my conversation, in English, with Chef Savoy. It wasn't along conversation, but I thought his English was just fine. Franck was all over the restaurant on the night we were there. A very nice young man and has others have mentioned here, he struck me as a Maitre'D right out of a 1960's 'Continental' dining room-flawless service and with a warm welcome for everyone. And since the President of Caesar's Palace was at the private dinner, I am sure all of the staff felt a measure of added pressure. Of course, these folks are under pressure every night and as you would imagine, everything went off without a hitch-other than me spilling expensive champagne on a white tablecloth!

The producers of Top Chef really have a win-win production format. Much of the drama we see on the screen each week happens behind the scenes-and it's those moments caught by the wandering eye of the camera that give the producers a refrigerator of dramatic bites to give to the editing room. Whether it's Howie slamming an oven door, Hung gushing at Boulud or Casey looking like her lunch is coming back up through her throat when she is critiqued, you can't script moments like that. It's a producer and editor's lunch handed to then on a sliver platter. So you have the judges table which seems to be the red meat of the show so to speak. Then you add twenty of the unscripted clips to build drama and drop in another ten clips or so of the contestants making on-camera comments and voila, you have a show. I really think it's a successful production format. But that doesn't mean I agree with the way the show is presented or many of the elements that go into the editing of the show, the judging criteria or the challenges that are given to the chefs.

One of the best parts of the artichoke soup was the accompanient-a small square cube of toasted bricohe slathered with a foie gras mousse. I seem to remember the brioche was flecked with some bits of black truffle. It was crisp yet light, buttery yet not drippping in butterfat, and oh my, the combination of butter, truffle and foie gras, perfection. The toast is what I felt elevated the artichoke soup into the realm of one of the top dishes of the night, if not forever. Chef Savoy actually speaks quite good English. At one point during the welcoming hour, I stepped out onto the small patio with Chef Savoy. Just the two of us standing there while the other guests moved into the dining room to sit down. I asked him how things were going in Las Vegas. He said "beautiful weather, a beautiful restaurant and beautiful ingredients, it is all very good."

Oh God. Here we go, another week in the heat of the Top Chef kitchen. There are a lot of different elements and emotions involved in Top Chef-almost too many different facets to the show for me to try and comment on each one. So this week, I thought I would focus solely on commenting about the food and the dishes the chefs created and the overall success of their menus. Of course, this isn’t a qualified review because the number one element in reviewing a restaurant is missing since I wasn’t in the dining rom eating the food. Restaurant April Seared Sea Scallop on Corn and Black Truffle Custard I thought the scallops looked like they were perfectly sauteed-nice brown, caramelized surface yet not overdone. The judges seemed to really like this dish, and while corn is a natural accompaniment to scallops, I thought the corn truffle looked like a gloppy mess on the plate. Presentation does account for something. Beet Cured House Smoked Wild King Salmon, Macadamia Pesto. I hope Tre didn't buy King Salmon from anywhere near Oregon, Alaska or Washington. If he did buy King Salmon out of our Northwest waters and then soaked it in beet juice and served it with sweet macadamia nut sauce of garlic and cheese, the State Police from Oregon, Alaska and Washington have a warrant for his arrest. As the judges remarked-"too many messy flavors" and it was "digusting." Enough said. Chilled Carrot-Coconut Ginger Soup with Shitake Bacon Oh Casey you silly girl! And I thought bacon came from the belly of pigs-not the woodsy fungi we call the Shitake mushroom. The dish sounds good and I'd certainly serve it, hot or cold, as part of a summer dinner menu. But come on, call a Shitake a mushroom and cured pork bacon. OK Casey? Lobster Salad with Arugula and Caramelized Cauliflower, Golden Raisins, Vinaigrette A laudable attempt by CJ. But I agree with the judges comments that there were too many competing flavors. Just the sound of combining succulent and sweet lobster with sticky raisins and what can be the slightly bitter taste of caramelized cauliflower doesn't sound really appetizing. Maybe a simpler lobster salad with a unique vinaigrette would have worked better from a flavor standpoint. Monkfish on Mascarpone Mashed Potatoes, Beuerre blanc Casey, Casey, Casey. Why on earth, or ocean, would you serve a buttery, tender and sweet filet of monkfish on cheesey potatoes? Poor girl, she looks like she's about to barf whenever she is criticized. And a chef that doesn't properly cook fish, off with their head! To add to her anguish Casey admitted "the fish was a bit dry." Translation-overcooked. Beef Tenderloin with a Mushroom Crust with Smoked Potatoes Looked good to me, and I didn't see the judges spit out the smoked potatoes this time so I assume the smoked potatoes were not overcooked and properly smoked. I think it sounds like a good, if somewhat ordinary, dish. Granny Smith Brioche Bread Pudding, Cinnamon and Brandy Anglaise After the Salmon disaster earlier in the meal, Tre couldn't afford to fall in his pastry skills. If he did, along with a lack of strong leadership as the Executive Chef, he was going to be gone. Well, we all know that the bread pudding failed and Tre was shown the door to the parking lot. Ted Allen was spot on with his criticism-you don't have to be a pastry chef to make a decent bread pudding. I think Tre sold bread pudding short when he said he decided on doing bread pudding because it was an easy recipe to do in a short amount of time. Talk to some old-fashioned bakers in the age group of your Great-Grandmother. They'll tell you bread pudding is a 'simple' recipe, but like any recipe, it can't be rushed and you have to add just the right amount of egg and cream to the bread. If you rush things you may not be taking the time to insure you've got enough liquid to make the finished bread pudding creamy and soft. Tre-next time slow down a bit and make sure you're giving your bread pudding the time and effort necessary. Overall grade: B-. Decent dishes that were a bit off the mark in terms of flavor combinations and lagging technique. Only fair marks for a lack of cohesiveness in how the dishes worked together as part of a complete menu. Fair to poor leadership by the Executive Chef and fair to poor teamwork by all four team members. Restaurant Garage (or Restaurant Quarke, Quirk or whatever they renamed it). Tuna Tartare with Egg Vinaigrette, Nicoise Olives Good job Hung. Simple, clean flavors with a hint of saltiness from the Nicoise olives. A nice light start to a menu that will prove to have a consistent, well-thought procession from appetizer to entree to dessert. I have forgiven Hung for his boyish crush and silly giggling at the sight of Mr. Boulud last week. You go Hung. Poussin with Mint Gnocchi, Sweet Pea Puree, Carrots and Hazelnuts I give Howie some kudos for the success of Dale's dish. While Dale was shopping for the interior design elements of the revamped restaurant, Howie took to the market. When he realized the market didn't have enough rabbit for the dish Dale had planned, he bought Poussin instead-a good substitute. When I heard Dale was planning on Rabbit as part of his appetizer dish, I was hoping for a Ballontine of Rabbit stuffed with Black Truffles and then served cold. That was probably a bit pretentious on my part. I think the Poussin dish went over well with the judges. Halibut with Grapes and Braised Leeks, Grape Sauce Sara hit a ball far into the outfield with this dish. Halibut is one of our holy grails in the Northwest so we are quite pleased when chefs don't gussy it up with silly, uncompatible ingredients. Good job Sara for keeping things simple. And Steven, you snooty man with the fat tie, I am sure you paired the perfect wine with the Grape Sauce in Sara's dish. Rack of Lamb with White Beans, Haricot Verts and Fried Shallots I thought Howie designed the perfect meat dish for this menu. The menu started with milder flavors and textures and by this point in the meal, I bet the diners were ready for some red meat. While the camera didn't do it justice, or dis-justice I should say, according to Bourdain's blog, Howie's lamb wasn't just rare, it was RAW! Howie is still the bomb waiting to explode. When he got pissed at Sara's direction in the kitchen he slammed the oven door so hard I thought it would fall off. And his crappy attitude wasn't lost on Colicchio. It's almost as if the producer's are purposely sending Howie through to the end, only to see him fall into a barrel of rotten sardines in the final episode. Good dish in theory but it sounds as though the execution fell off the mark. Panna Cotta with Fresh Berries I've always sensed Hung was a good chef. And since he left his ego at the coat check counter outside the dining room, he's seemed to mellow and it's shown in his cooking. I still think he's a dangerous guy running around the kitchen with a knife. He excoriated those poor little chickens in literally seconds. Thank God he didn't chop off his fingers when he clipped the wings of those chickens earlier in the show. But back to the Panna Cotta-the perfect light, creamy, smooth dessert with fresh berries to finish off the meal, especially after the somewhat heave lamb and white bean entree. Simple and looking delicious. Good job Hung. Now next week get back to your creative side. Remember the Geoduck with Black Chicken Hung? Push the envelope a bit more in the next few weeks and you could surprise some people. Overall grade: A-. Tre said he was a calm Executive Chef. His calm did him under. He needed to stay focused and under control, but when he needed to, he didn't push his team to perform. Sara did. She stayed while showing the skills of a strong leader. She wasn't afraid to knock Howie and Hung down a few notches if she needed to. She kept her team under wraps and in control of their emotions. It showed in the food, the execution of the cooking and the presentations on the plate. The menu had a beginning, middle and end that was cohesive. Nice job. Overall winner: Tre, A. For having class, being humble and admitting to his faults, fostering teamwork and not losing his integrity by treating others badly and using profanity in the kitchen during his weeks on the show, his creativity with ingredients, and for being a damn good cook.

Hah! 'Two' of Giada's most endearing qualities! My Mother and Father, both 83, watch Giada's show on Food Network every day. Not because they like her or her food, but because they LOVE Paula Deen. Paula's show comes on at 4pm each day, followed by Giada at 430p and then the local news. They slog through Giada's show waiting for the news. Now mind you, two retired 83 year olds are not the target audience for Giada's easy Italian food. They have often asked me, other than the low cut tops and the wares that almost fall into the mixing bowl , what is the actual draw to Giada. I never seem to have much of an answer. When I tell them they can get a greater view of Giada on the Today Show they'll be amused. I hope that Food Network works on signing on some new, serious cooks with a show directed at foodies. And someone who will refuse the temptation to go 'big' on a network show.

This could be Giada's opportunity to audition for a permanent spot hosting the fourth hour of The Today Show. A live audition if you will like the string of hosts who auditioned for Rosie's spot on The View. I totally understand all of the demographics and commercial aspects of Giada appearing as a host of The Today Show and I don't begrudge her or The Food Network or NBC in their quest to increase ratings-but I cringe a bit each time another Food Network star becomes a mass media talent. I often wonder if Batali or Emeril would just prefer to get back in the kitchen and cook rather than go to another photo shoot to advertise their latest non-stick cookware. And I'd love to hear Bourdain's thoughts on this topic. I imagine he'd agree with the serious food lover's here at eGullet. I wish Giada well as I do anyone pursuing a career. But I sure wish Food Network would produce a serious show about food and cooking like 'Rick Stein's Food Heroes' on BBC, and hire a talent that's in it for the food, the cooking, and sharing that with others, with no further commercial aspirations. Just a simple show about the food, that's all. I'm a big fan of PBS cooking shows, but the programming is based on your local PBS station and the budget they have to air cooking programs. Our local PBS station used to have a wonderful roster of many cooking shows on Saturday mornings. Now we are down to about only 4 shows. The cooking program you watch on PBS in New York may not be the cooking show I see on PBS in Spokane. And being a public entity, I know it is always a struggle for PBS to be able to afford to produce and air new cooking programs. Maybe the cooks on PBS should have their agents call NBC and get a Today Show gig.

I agree with everything you mention-I personally like Giada and I think that people love her personality and smile. Easy Italian fits a big demographic-cooks who want to make tasty, homemade Italian meals in a short about of time. I doubt that Giada would have been given the Today show offer if she wasn't popular. But I'm wondering what serious cooks think of tv chefs venturing away from the food and cooking arena into other areas of media?

Hmm-can someone explain to me why Giada Delaurentis is a co-host of the Today show this morning? What is the correlation between hosting 'Easy Italian' on the Food Network and introducing 'softball' segments on the Today show? I can understand Giada appearing on Today to do a cooking segment, but doing an intro for a segment on the relatinship between yoga and pregnant women? I don't get it. While it is an obvious move to push Giada more into the 'mainstream' media ala Rachel Ray and her talk show, doesn't it seem to dumb-down the public's perception of Giada as a cook on Food Network to have her sit on the couch on the Today show set? Should a television cook, or a more fair description-the presenter of a television show about cooking, stick to a pure focus on food and cooking and not venture into mainstream television? (Remember the ill-fated sticom that Emeril did at the height of the 'Bam' phenomena? Did it last more than 4 episodes? Did we-aka serious foodies-see Emeril in a different light after that fiasco?) Does the commercial drive to push the latest Food Network talent into the mass media diminish their standing in the food community?

Anyone could sign up for any of the events, including this one, through the ads posted in the magazine and on their website. I was just leafing through one of my Bon Apetit magazines and saw the ad. The next day I went to the website and saw the listing of the events and when I saw the private dinner at Guy Savoy I immediately made the reservation. I think they were limiting this particular dinner to no more than 30 guests so I knew it would go fast. It did sell out but I don't know how long it went before 30 people signed up. There were other private dinners that night at Rao's, Bradley Ogden, Bobby Flay's place and a few others I don't remember right now. I knew Savoy would be the top of the top and that's why I went for it. Wonderful. As far as I know they are planning another Bon Apetit Food and Wine focus in Las Vegas next May but it's too early to tell for sure. If they do, I'll be right back there again.

I've read some comments about the cost of dining at Guy Savoy and whether it is too expensive or if the expense is worth the experience. I paid $375 for the private dinner at Guy Savoy. The cost was not only just the food, I could have had a fine dinner at L'Atelier at the MGM for far less money. But for $375 I was treated to a special menu created for a private party at arguably one of the finest French restaurants in America. The menu itself was printed especially for our party, and given the guest list, the copious amounts of champagne, fine wines, truffles, foie gras and having the opportunity to shake the hand of Guy Savoy, it was quite a value and an evening I will always remember. I would have gladly paid much more.