macrosan

Not for Gavin.

Oh good grief. I'm pretty sure that was the restaurant opened by my college friend Billy Nawathe If so, that was the first place I ever ate tandoori chicken. Yeah, Tony, Bloom's in GG is all that is left, but the waiters there just don't have the style, do they ? The best part of Bloom's Whitechapel was when the waiter schlepped you over to his table (their sole source of income was commission and tips) and just as you started to sit down he'd say "So what do you want?". Classy

Being strictly naive about this, I find it hard to believe that the fuel doesn't make a difference. So much is made of it by pizza houses around the world ! Either this is a perfect example of hype becoming reality, or else there is some mystical characteristic of wood/coal pizza ovens that defies scientific explanation, but that really does make a difference. Please let it be the latter

You call them rude ? 'Appen tha neer took thasen to Bloom's in Whitechapel ....

Borscht 'n' Tears is still there ???? Wow, that used to be my "fancy bird" place, where I used to take young ladies with whom I thought I stood a chance. So that would mean I went twice It looked and sounded very romantic, with those rcessed booths under vaulted arches in the cellar. In fact, it was pretty dank and smelly, but with a fancy bird who cared Peter, when you were running for Hammer, was that because someone was chasing you ? And of so, why ?

Oh what a coincidence I happened to ask in my local Italian restaurant today what nationality the chef was. The waiter (Gino) asked why I was asking. "Because he makes terrific pasta" I said. "OK then" said Gino "he's Albanian". He paused for several seconds and added "But he speaks Italian".

Tubby Isaacs ? He must be about 130 years old by now And who remembers Isow's ?

Is either Kettner's or Gennaro's still around ? And how about Wheeler's (althopugh my last meal in Old Compton St was pretty awful) ? Gay Hussar ? Langan's Barsserie ? What's the name of Chaucer's pub in Southwark - The George ?

Hey Stephen, you met Fat Guy and didn't say hello to Momo ? That's a wonderful piece of writing, Stephen. I've just read it three times, and I enjoyed it more each time I read it Like a good steak, good writing improves with age. I haven't been to Luger for a few years now, but your evocative piece makes it seem like yesterday. Isn't it amazing how much the ambience contributes towards a meal ? I have found Luger almost like an opera set --- I'm sure they audition the waiters to match the menu, and train them to perform the Luger waltz. Thanks for helping me re-live the experience

I'm enjoying your reports, Stephen. I'm interested to know why, given that you find the blessings "mixed", you do in fact tell the restaurant that you're a chef. I'm also interested to know if you tell them in advance when you book, or do you tell the waitstaff when you sit down ?

I love it, Gavin, great project If you're stuck for someone to go with to Gavroche, I'd be delighted to join you, in the interests of research of course. It's on my list I'm pretty sure the first Wimpy Bar in London, indeed in Britain, was in Coventry Street. Wimpy was an American franchise which was first taken up by J Lyons & Co. I believe they put the first Wimpy Bar in the famous Lyons Corner House on the corner of Coventry Street and Rupert Street, home of the "bottomless cup of coffee". That was in about 1959. Wimpy was then sub-franchised by J Lyons, and my father opened one up in 1962 in Bracknell, Berks. In my holidays, I used to cook and serve the hamburgers, and I confess to liking them The franchise operation was interesting --- the sole requirement was that the franchisee had to buy the patties and the buns from Lyons, and Lyons did the shopfitting. The quality of the patties was excellent.

But Adam, this is exactly an example of the point I'm making. Who "lumps just about everything non-white .... into one barrel marked "ethnic" ? Who ? Do you do it ? Everyone making this argument seems to be saying "Of course I don't do that, but the guy round the corner....". I'll say again that I deny that people generally are doing this. Now I know what I mean when I use the term "ethnic food". And what I mean has nothing whatsoever in any sense or form to do with what you describe here, and what others have described. It is a vague term which has limited value, but it may sometimes be useful, but it is in no sense derogatory. I'm waiting for one single person at eGullet to say that they use the term to mean non-white, non-European, inferior, cheap, or any other of the derogatory ascriptions suggested in this thread. And if no-one at eGullet does so, then someone name me one food writer, or restaurant critic, or journalist who does so. Or just say that you know some people who do. But please someone give me some evidence that we can discuss.

This debate seems to be moving into Wonderland Of course there are some people who misuse words. Of course there are some people who subvert the meaning of words to suit their own purposes. But that's no reason to doubt the proper, or general usage of the word, nor to talk about banning it. Fat Guy is substantially right in saying that the general use of the term "ethnic food" is to mean food which is unorthodox to the person using the term. So to an Englishman, Korean food is ethnic, but to a Korean it is not. Now I have no idea whether in the Korean language there is any usage of the term "ethnic food" but if there were, then presumably English food would be ethnic. What on earth is wrong with that ? Some people have postulated that the food of Europeans, or the food of white races, or the food of rich races, is not considered "ethnic" in order to support their argument. But they have produced no evidence of that, and I deny it. I consider Greek food to be ethnic, and Swedish, and German, and Polish. Most people I know, to the extent that they use the term "ethnic food" would agree with me. To escalate the discussion into a psychological and philosophical examination of how language directs thought, or how words which express differences create human conflict, is to create a solution looking for a problem. Find me a substantial body of people who are offended by the term "ethnic food" and I'll think again

I have no idea of the qualifications of Bocuse to make such an allegation, nor are we given any evidence to support it. Frankly, I think it is therefore foolish and dangerous to speculate on the allegation. If you can't take failure, then don't sit the exam.

Oh ROFL So they're considering it but there are no plans to do it. [Camera pans to the Marketing Department monthly meeting. Six ashen-faced Marketing Analysts cower in their chairs as the Marketing Director speaks] MD: Item 127 on the Agenda brought forward from our meeting of November 23, 1993. [The Marketing Analysts are seen to be twitching visibly. Close-up of trembling lower lip] MD: "Consideration of use of organic milk" [One young Marketing Analysts falls from chair in a dead faint. No-one stirs] MD: Any comments? [Two more Marketing Analysts collapse to the floor. No-one stirs. Silence pervades the room] MD: OK, minute that as "Due consideration was given to the issue" and carry it forward to our meeting on... ummmmm ... Oh, March 2007. That'll do for today, everybody. Lunch at Sketch ?

LOL I guess the EuroHarmonisation Police haven't caught up with them yet. Are they allowed to mention that dreadful word "ounces" ????? Moggie, you should have asked themn what that is in centilitres I tried Starbucks a few weeks ago. It was OK, nothing to take exception to, very ordinary coffee at a very expanded price

Wow, is this seriously possible ? Could a restaurant of this stature and price level really be serving frozen fries

I seem to have misunderstood the thrust of your question, Pan. Soory about that I have to say that I have never detected "politically incorrect" undertones in the phrase "ethinc cuisine", either in my own usage or anyone else's. Maybe I've been missing something. However if that is the case, and even if only to remove the inherent vagueness of the phrase, I also vote for a replacement. Pace an interesting thread in another place what about "regional cuisine" ?

As with so many words, ethnic has both a dictionary definition and a common usage definition. I think it is immediately clear that in the phrase "ethnic food" the dictionary definition is not being used, since the phrase could have no intelligent meaning. The trouble with common usage is that it's common but not universal so there is plenty of room for mis-communication. I think Anna has it about right. Most people use the phrase "ethnic food" to mean food from a foreign (to them) culture. Pan's interesting observation that people don't class food as ethnic is true of the Western world, because French food (and indeed Italian) is not foreign to us --- we've been eating it for a long long time In Britain, ethnic food broadly means Asian foods, because the phrase was coined as shorthand for the wave of Asian restaurants that opened up here in the last 30 years. Chinese, Indian, Turkish, Greek were the main ones, and now Thai, Japanes, Korean and so on. I think G.Johnson is wrong to say that European food is considered non-ethnic in Britain. Interestingly, we have very little European food in Britain so maybe the point is moot. But I'm pretty sure that a German or Swedish restaurant in London would be classifdied by most people as ethnic. America is, I think, quite different. America is inherently multi-ethnic, so there is no American ethnicity. The spread of national cuisines throughout America is so complete that very few Americans are not continuously exposed to all of them. So Tex-Mex is as familiar to New Yorkers as to San Antonians, and Cajun as familiar to San Franciscans as to New Orleanites. I think ! In summary, I think Anna has the right "working definition" and I think Fat Guy has the right approach to the phrase. It is just a shorthand method of communicating about a broad group of cuisines. If precision is important, then don't use the phrase

Me too, Tommy, but then you and I are just nonconformists

Thanks for the post, Pete. It certainly seems from many posts here following the eGullet banquet that Diwan is maintaining its high standards. So did you pick up the chops with your fingers and start gnawing ? If not, why not ? I believe it's absolutely proper etiquette to do so in an Indian restaurant. I believe that even in "polite" society in India, much food is eaten using the fingers. Certainly I have seen pieces of bread (nan, paratha, puri, chapati) broken off and used as a scoop to pick up food the main dish. I'd be interested to know if it would be considered etiquette to do so at Diwan. Suvir ? Ajay ?

Yep, it's in the diary That's in rue Vasco de Gama ? Is it easy to park nearby if I decide to drive ?

March 6 is good for me. I'm delighted to rely on the locals for choice of restaurant. I assume it won't be a fixed menu --- there will be choices for the dietarily challenged ? And how many different wines might we be intending to sample ?

I prefer a weekday (any day would be OK with a couple of weeks' notice). Can't make 22 March (my anniversary, and my wife's too )

I just found this thread by accident, not being a regular browser of the France Forum. I strongly recommend you post a connecting link to the UK Forum. I, and I'm sure a number of others who live in the Southeast, would be delighted to come to an eGullet meal in Paris. It's only a Eurostar ride or a short drive in the car away