annecros

No, you want that stock to cook the greens in and flavor them. You would be surprised at the salt and flavor that it imparts, and usually I don't even need to season when adding a ham bullion cube. You aren't discarding the hock as well, are you? Yeah, I had an aunt who served three greens on New Year's day.

Uh, dude, rib steaks three nights a week is overkilling it a bit. Even I don't buy that, overall. Chemicals and additives have no place in food? What about the onion and the garlic added to the chicken? And, that electricity you are roasting that chicken with is a far cry from an open pit. I am all about the romance of food. If it feels good, do it.

I think someone else has brought up this point, but I will raise it once again. One man's stink, is another man's food on the table. I actually think that properly composted manure smells rich and clean. It is still crap, and others have told me that they think it smells like crap. Paper mills, pig farms, a dairy (and I am very well aquainted with some very well run ones) is a great place for blow flies and rodents to thrive. You cannot run the operation without attracting a certain amount of undesirables. All that being said, I still don't like Smithfield. Never have.

hehe I guess you haven't smelled more than two pigs together. They create manure lagoons. That's what they do. Even wild with the scrub of Florida to wander free range. I guarantee that any small processor of pork, will simply stink. Pigs stink. It is expected. I hate Smithfield products personally. Hate it even worse that they are breeding the fat out of the pigs. But make no mistake, pigs are pigs.

I agree that both Ilan and Marcel had trouble thinking beyond what they knew and were comfortable with. That's why Sam should have won... he approached each challenge with no pre-conceived notions about what he should make... he let the challenge and his ingredients decide. Even though I despised Marcel the whole time, in the end I was actually cheering for him over Ilan. Ilan is the James Frey of cooking! No originality at all! ← I think it is the difference between using baking soda because it is called for in a recipe, or using the baking soda for something else because you understand what the tool does. Both have a solid background. Marcel and Ilan were contemporaries at CIA, so both have the fundamentals or they wouldn't have walked out of the door. Sam is going to do very good things. He lost out to Ilan for a reason, although I am having trouble wrapping my brain around it even now. Oh well, you win Bravo. It just sort of tickles me that Bravo has a more widely viewed "food" show than Food Network. I do like snark from a distance.

No, I wouldn't want to go to my grave having never had Pringles (which I don't like the taste of anyway), or a Triple Quarter Pounder with Cheese, or a bucket of KFC Extra-Crispy all dark meat . But I wouldn't want to go to my grave thinking that I had eaten those things every night of my life as dinner, or eaten Stouffer's Lean Cuisine and Hamburger Helper as my primary source of "nutrition" either. And I wouldn't want to go to my grave thinking that I'd fed those to my kids every night either, instead of dinner made from whole, as-close-to-natural food sources as I could have. ← You just restated Pollan's argument. ← Which I've been in agreement with since the beginning of the thread, notwithstanding having been called a Communist and a Religious Fanatic by some. The only two pieces of advice he gives that I don't follow are "eat less", and "eat less meat". My 'portion size' is quite large, by any standards. As far as the "less meat", that's only something that I've recently started to do; carnivorism is a hard habit to break! ← Hehe. I think the discussion has eclipsed the argument on this thread. Less meat? Well. Depends. On a lot of things. Eat less? Well, yes but eat more often. You will unconsciously eat less overall, I think. Go cut the grass once in a while, for goodnessake. Get off your butt. Yep.

If and how to adjust one's diet with respect to health is a bit trickier than whether or not to smoke, but even with smoking there is no guarantee that you will get lung cancer or emphysema. Likewise it is possible for non-smokers to get lung cancer. This argument, that one can not absolutely "pin" lung cancer on smoking was the main justification (in his own mind) for an older relative to not quit smoking. Some people also downplay the potential bad effects of smoking (diet, also?) because then it means that they don't have to 'admit' that they have made bad choices in the past. I say, admit or not, but just get on with the better choices! I don't think one should feel "guilty" if one gets an illness that may or may not have a dietary component mixed in with a genetic one, but on the other hand, if there are reasonable steps one can take with one's diet, why not try to do it? And yes, thankfully, if one can afford it, there are medicines available to help to help mitigate things. Despite what it may seem like from several of my posts, I am not fixated on diet and health! As lperry mentioned several pages back, one of the reasons I became more consciously interested in "whole" and 'real' foods was just that it corresponded more closely to the way I grew up AND to many foodstuffs that I valued. If anything, I had a tinge of suspicion or dislike of that type of "whole food" designation or claim. But finally, I realized that whole food was pretty similar to the types of food that I grew up with and now cook. I wasn't purchasing flax seed and whole grains from health food stores, I eat chips and drink diet soda; but I was actually cooking mostly "food" and using less "food products" per Pollan's definition. My antennae were raised when it seemed that certain foods I valued were becoming no longer available and that it seemed like they were being displaced by cheap and artificial substitutes. It is one thing to just ignore some of the food products that I don't enjoy but it is another thing when you can't even get the original food anymore! That hits the bottom line even if one is not thinking beyond oneself. Then, looking around a bit, one's eyes are opened to not just the presence of some processed or convenience foods, but to their creeping dominance in terms of choices available! That or your only choice is to pay three times the price at Whole Foods if they even a carry the ingredient or foodstuff you are interested in. (Try asking for lard, or pork belly or liverwurst or real rye bread or almond paste without corn syrup at a Whole Foods.) So, while all is not doomsday by any stretch of the means, this initial sensitisation has opened my eyes to other issues as well. ← Personally, and in my experience, I can't think of a food that is simply not around anymore. You may have to look harder, but I am stretching hard to think of an extinct vegetable. Then there is the whole retro thing when everything old is new again and pig breeds are being revived by breeding out what was bred in in the first place. I see much more evidence of extinction in processed foods. if you: (Try asking for lard, or pork belly or liverwurst or real rye bread or almond paste without corn syrup at a Whole Foods.) they will tell you it is bad, bad, bad for you and contributes to poor nutrition, for the most part. The almond paste argument will be that they can't afford it, so YOU surely can't afford it. After all, they specialize in unaffordable food. Many issues.

No, I wouldn't want to go to my grave having never had Pringles (which I don't like the taste of anyway), or a Triple Quarter Pounder with Cheese, or a bucket of KFC Extra-Crispy all dark meat . But I wouldn't want to go to my grave thinking that I had eaten those things every night of my life as dinner, or eaten Stouffer's Lean Cuisine and Hamburger Helper as my primary source of "nutrition" either. And I wouldn't want to go to my grave thinking that I'd fed those to my kids every night either, instead of dinner made from whole, as-close-to-natural food sources as I could have. ← You just restated Pollan's argument.

I'm not understanding your response. I proposed an argument for those who believe there is a health problem that is related to diet using what I said up front was an overly-simplistic example. If you don't believe there is such a problem, of course you will disagree. I was not trying to belittle people who are reliant on medication. ← Oh, I perfectly understand that, and please understand that typing is not the same thing as discussing an issue face to face. I didn't feel belittled by your post a bit. I must be honest in that I probably tossed your argument in with someone elses, and my poor tired self has to go back through the messages and figure out where I lost a thread here or there. Bear with me, I beg you. If you do believe that there is a health problem that is related to diet, you may disagree with my conclusions as well. But, as I have said before and will continue to say (although more concisely now) you cannot pin ANY health problem on diet exclusively. You even have to have a genetic predisposition to have Type II Diabetes, although diet can cure it. There is even a genetic predisposition to obesity, or alcoholism, or Parkinsons, or anything else. Sorry if I came of snarky with the Valhalla crack. But I really would like to live a long life without taking a bunch of meds, but that just isn't realistic.

The funny thing is that if he knew what he was doing he could have pulled it off. Too hummid? Go to the least humid place in the shop--- the walk in. I think he huffed one too many of his NO3 bulbs. ← I think that supports Collichios "not done" appraisal of the chefs. Would the walk in have saved him from condensation on the cold capsules at plate time? I honestly don't know.

The 70's and the 80's generations will have much improved health and other benefits than my generation has or will have in my old age vs. the one they will experience. They are getting better at things out there every day. It's a wonderful world. No apologies necessary. I understood the point you are making and arguing convincingly. I too think it will be interesting, but that the numbers will be skewed.

Well, of course you do. I want to take a plane trip to Valhalla, live forever, and frolic barefoot. Is there a problem with poor health in America, or is there increased efficiency in diagnostic techniques and people living longer and bodies eventually wear out? You really can't say one way or another, when you get down to brass tacks, I think and in my opinion. The whole pharmacy argument doesn't wash for me. They are open 24/7 because older people are taking drugs that make them feel better and live longer, young people are taking drugs to fight acute issues like infection, middle aged people are taking drugs to combat chronic illness that would have killed people two generations back, and will live to old age to take drugs to combat age related disease in the future. I used to be pretty smug about my diet and my health until I turned 38. I know I am on medications that I will need to take for the rest of my life now, and I also know that I cannot eat like I used to. But considering that I would certainly die if I did not take those meds, well, it is a pretty easy choice to make. I think Pollan's point is reasonable. And would you really want to go to your grave never having popped a can of Pringles? Edit to add: Frolic barefoot and NEKKID in Valhalla, hehe. Hedonist at heart, and may very well be my downfall one day.

I'm a little confused by who the "we" is that you're referring to. The generation that's currently living longer then previous generations is not the babyboomer generation or any generation younger then the boomers, it's the generation that went through the Great Depression. Or the generation that, if Pollan's research is correct, grew up when food was still relatively expensive (the article refers to 1947 as a year when food was expensive and since then food prices have decreased), and they might've also had less to eat during the Depression and the rationing during WWII. That generation or general age category would've been likely to have eaten primarily what Pollan calls, "real food", at least into adulthood. We don't know yet if the babyboom generation (or the whichever generation is considered to be the first generation to have opportunity to eat lots of processed foods) will experience a similarly long life span, since, as far as I know, the oldest boomers are just starting to reach retirement age. - good content snipped by me to decrease quote length - I think no one knows for sure yet just what the impact of a diet rich in processed foods will be, at least not on longevity. I don't know about general health--I seem to see alot of articles talking about increasing rates of diabetes, obesity and obesity related health problems (for instance, joint problems). But I don' t know if there's a clear connection with those problems and processed foods--for instance there's a study that indicated that veterans exposed to Agent Orange developed diabetes at a higher rate then average. Agent Orange, a herbicide, was used quite in bit in the US before it was pulled off the market. The healthiness and longevity of babyboom generation and those following in the US may be the test, although it may be difficult to separate out what's caused by processed foods and what's caused by, for instance, degree of exposure to a variety of pollutants through other means then food. ← Take a walk around an old cemetary or research some death certificates. The small plots are the most heart breaking. A significant portion of that generation didn't even make it to adulthood in order to eat "processed" foods. Check the dates. It is even sadder when you see a family plot in which little stair steps have been laid to rest, alongside a mother, from the days before RH factors were routinely tested for and gestational diabetes was not understood, much less the factor of the poor mother going through pregnancy after pregnancy - because of lack of birth control - and the wear and tear that put on her body. Before school lunches, before WIC, before food stamps. I know a very dear lady who survived cancer only to die within six months from a heart attack. But the point is, she survived breast cancer which would have certainly gone undiagnosed a few decades earlier, because mammograms were not routine and even if they did find it, they didn't have a clue how to deal with it. Ironically, there was some speculation that the target area for her radiation weakened an artery. My mother was widowed at 32 when her husband died of lung cancer at 35 in the early 1960s. She had 5 children. I guess I am cautious when I feel like the Depression Era is being aggrandized. It was an awful, awful period in our history, and for humanity in general. I think it is pretty easy to say that things have improved since. However, the human animal does not settle into complacency. ← I find it hard to believe that one could honestly think Pollan's article was aggrandizing or romanticizing "life in the Depression Era". However, this very counterpoint has been made several times already so I guess that it is not a willful misinterpretation! I don't want to misinterpret your post, but this is what it seems to be saying: 1. My grandparents and other relatives during the Depression and other times died relatively early in life and they ate predominately whole foods. (Therefore, there is no (or little) benefit to eating whole foods and more fruits, and vegs, etc.) 2. If one decides that one wants to limit ones intake of processed food, Pollan suggests one of several strategies for doing so as you make buying decisions at the market. One can ask oneself, “Would my great grandparent recognize this as a foodstuff?” (Therefore, Pollan is suggesting that there have been no improvements in health or nutrition, or even other arenas in life since the Depression Era. In addition, we should eat the same diet as people did duirng the Depression.) edited to add: It is amazing to realize how much more difficult things were not too long ago with respect to what we now take granted regarding healthcare. I'm sorry for the heavy losses in your family. My sister just had her first baby. Everything went well but there were a few "small" things that would have been life threatening only two generations ago. It is something to be thankful for that we have so many advantages w.r.t. healthcare and other issues. Maybe your larger point is that we have so much to be thankful for we shouldn't carp on things that are so much less difficult, in a way. These veers the discussion into so many personal areas regarding "quality of life", etc I guess one of the reasons we are discussing this article is whether one thinks the suggestions are good ones to increase one's day-to-day sense of well-being, ones own health and the health of one's children, the health of farmers and other food producers and of the environment, etc. ← I guess I was not as clear as I should have been, so apologies. I am in full agreement with Pollan, but wanted to address the issues that were raised by the poster I quoted specifically. There were many losses in my family, but the family is HUGE! I am one of ten, (number 9 of his, hers and ours) and it is amazing when I consider that we all are alive and pretty healthy - with some help here and there, of course. I think my larger point was to be grateful for what we have, but to acknowledge that the wonderful things we have to be thankful for were due to constant striving for perfection by people who were not satisfied. I am being more observational, than analytical, I think?

SANDWICH Ok so above is the only sandwich I have seen for pork belly.I am having about 18 guests over and have 12 pounds of pork belly.. While this recipe looks really good, I was wondering if there was another alternative.. I think I might also want a crispy pork belly sandwich or something.. Anyone have another suggestion for a super bowl party this Sunday.. Maybe a Chicharrones sandwich also.. I just feel like although a shredded pork belly sandwich sounds great, I would also like a fried something too.. ← Do a riff on a BLT? Do a riff on Carolina BBQ with something coleslawish and an acid dressing?

He actually gave Michael a lot of credit for that dish for his input. They are going to be done here next month preparing it as a team at an F&W event. ← Michael's idea was risotto, Ilan turned it into a paella. ← Makes sense.

He actually gave Michael a lot of credit for that dish for his input. They are going to be done here next month preparing it as a team at an F&W event.

I'm a little confused by who the "we" is that you're referring to. The generation that's currently living longer then previous generations is not the babyboomer generation or any generation younger then the boomers, it's the generation that went through the Great Depression. Or the generation that, if Pollan's research is correct, grew up when food was still relatively expensive (the article refers to 1947 as a year when food was expensive and since then food prices have decreased), and they might've also had less to eat during the Depression and the rationing during WWII. That generation or general age category would've been likely to have eaten primarily what Pollan calls, "real food", at least into adulthood. We don't know yet if the babyboom generation (or the whichever generation is considered to be the first generation to have opportunity to eat lots of processed foods) will experience a similarly long life span, since, as far as I know, the oldest boomers are just starting to reach retirement age. - good content snipped by me to decrease quote length - I think no one knows for sure yet just what the impact of a diet rich in processed foods will be, at least not on longevity. I don't know about general health--I seem to see alot of articles talking about increasing rates of diabetes, obesity and obesity related health problems (for instance, joint problems). But I don' t know if there's a clear connection with those problems and processed foods--for instance there's a study that indicated that veterans exposed to Agent Orange developed diabetes at a higher rate then average. Agent Orange, a herbicide, was used quite in bit in the US before it was pulled off the market. The healthiness and longevity of babyboom generation and those following in the US may be the test, although it may be difficult to separate out what's caused by processed foods and what's caused by, for instance, degree of exposure to a variety of pollutants through other means then food. ← Take a walk around an old cemetary or research some death certificates. The small plots are the most heart breaking. A significant portion of that generation didn't even make it to adulthood in order to eat "processed" foods. Check the dates. It is even sadder when you see a family plot in which little stair steps have been laid to rest, alongside a mother, from the days before RH factors were routinely tested for and gestational diabetes was not understood, much less the factor of the poor mother going through pregnancy after pregnancy - because of lack of birth control - and the wear and tear that put on her body. Before school lunches, before WIC, before food stamps. I know a very dear lady who survived cancer only to die within six months from a heart attack. But the point is, she survived breast cancer which would have certainly gone undiagnosed a few decades earlier, because mammograms were not routine and even if they did find it, they didn't have a clue how to deal with it. Ironically, there was some speculation that the target area for her radiation weakened an artery. My mother was widowed at 32 when her husband died of lung cancer at 35 in the early 1960s. She had 5 children. I guess I am cautious when I feel like the Depression Era is being aggrandized. It was an awful, awful period in our history, and for humanity in general. I think it is pretty easy to say that things have improved since. However, the human animal does not settle into complacency. Edit to add: My Grandfather lost his first wife and two sons to Malaria in the early 1910s. My father lost all his hair due to high fever when he contracted Scarlet Fever as a teenager in the 1930s. He lost an older sister to pneumonia when she was three. Three of his younger siblings were stillborn. One of my Uncles contracted polio as a child, and died in his 30s. My Uncle on my Mother's side died at 4 from a congential deformity in the late 1940s. They ate organic, though.

Yeah, I know. He brought canned seafood to an Island! And he was so proud of it! He thought it was a special surprise! He honestly believed he was thinking outside the box with that one. Well, good luck to him in his Kenmore Kitchen, with his Nestle chocolate and Kraft jars of stuff, and I am sure he will be getting lots of Caphalon and ride around in his Rav4 and toss Gladware stuffed with leftover canned eels in the back. I know the product placement is necessary, but have mercy Bravo. At least get a knife manufacturer to sponser so these people don't have to lug around an extra bag. I bet that was a fun day for airport security. Maybe the Swiss Army Knife people can sponsor a challenge next season? That would be fun - taking away all the tools and torturing the cheftestants by requiring them to prepare a meal with a Swiss Army Knife. I'd have to tune in.

Oh man, Marcel was fubar! Not that I blame him. He had to spend all day with Ilan, then watch himself get beaten, THEN answer viewer questions. I read Padma's blog this morning, and she pretty deftly skewered Ilan, itemizing the recipes he stole from Casa Mono. He simply cooked the same food he's been preparing day in and day out, and are the concepts and creations of another chef. Marcel had high praise for Michael, said he was glad he picked him, and would pick him again. Not so much Sam. I took it just the opposite of some here. I think Sam jumped forward to take credit for a dish that was conceived by Marcel, and even though it lacked a main component, was still a judges favorite. If I had to pick one of the two (both lame) to be a success in the long run, it would have to be Marcel. At least he is interested in food and flavors and what can be done with them, as opposed to Ilan. Sam has a lot of growing up to do. Elia is just destined to be a bitter human being. Cliff screwed the pooch and I was and still am very dissappointed in him. They should have kept Josie around longer. I'm swearing off Season 3 now, but I'll probably watch the train wreck again when the time comes. I hate being Bravo's bitch. Edit: I also didn't like Ilan's slam of Harold from Season 1. Ilan can't shine Harold's shoes.

That is the sense I got from Pollan as well. And the inverse is true, as well. Don't discard a food because it "seems" unhealthy. And all this moderation - everywhere. Sheesh, live a little. Sometimes. Smile, be happy, and if you do nothing else, eat well.

Here is another interview from Gothamist with Marcel, that clarifies that the head shaving took place after the man handling. http://www.gothamist.com/archives/2007/01/...el_vigneron.php

About once or twice a month growing up in Georgia. Always served with rice and tomato gravy made from home canned stewed tomatoes. Mom switched to canned tuna when I was a teenager. It seemed like it was more of a winter thing for some reason, though. I make them about once a year. I know every southern household I ever spied the contents of the pantry had anywhere from two to five cans of salmon, depending upon how recently the Piggly Wiggly had a five for a dollar sale.

Good point. I sweated wrong three times a week for a year. My bad. ← Isn't muscle mass heavier than fat? Seems I remember that from son's lifting in high school and college.

I think it is his actual title at work.

Well, Food & Wine is now covering their butts. They said they did a profile of both of the finalists so they would be ready to go to press immediately for the March issue, and they have them both on the website now. Ack