Steve Klc

Ron, as you can tell from my posts I'm so completely with you on this that I guess I am profoundly clueless. And on the same day that John Whiting thought I was thinking and writing profoundly on another thread. This place sure keeps you on your toes. Malawry--where are you? weigh in on this please.

If you go back to the original link I provided, the author included in a little throwaway line: "It should be noted that the BK Veggie is not a vegetarian burger in the Vegan sense--mayonnaise does contain eggs and the patty shares the grill with other meats." I initially read past the true significance of this line. Then re-read the press release and yes, Tommy, it is so purposely parsed that vegetarian is not ever mentioned, just "veggie." Neither is the (presumed) fact that these veggie burgers will be cooked alongside beef. But it is mentioned in mostly positive press commentary. I'm reminded again of the Weekly Standard's conclusion: "In a way, it's a little miracle that meat-eaters and vegetarians can come together and eat peacefully--at the Home of the Whopper no less." Well, as it turns out, they can't. Burger King wants its publicly approving, high-moral-ground cake and to eat it, too--they so obviously (to me) want to appear to offer something to vegetarians. It seems purposely vague at best, disingenuous at worst, to offer it up with beef grease. No wonder the BK Veggie has that signature flame-broiled taste.

Tommy--I think Ron covered what I meant, sorry for the confusion. I'm just going over a common sore point and source of confusion among diners--omnivores and vegetarians alike. what good is offering a vegetarian dish if you've used meat or chicken stock somewhere in the process or cooking a veggie burger on a griddle full of meat grease? I suspected that the BK folks realized this, anticipated this in advance and worded their release very carefully. A politically-minded type would speculate that they "parsed" each word very carefully--neither to overstate nor over-reach explicitly but certainly, if one were "misled" in the process, that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. This is, of course, apart from whether the burger actually tasted good. Do you think Malawry would approach her BK veggie a little differently if she knew it was cooked in meat grease? Methinks the cooking process for these veggie burgers is a question worth pursuing. I guess this goes to larger concerns--truth in labelling, the supposed meanings attached to words like organic, natural, healthy, cooking kosher and pareve--it's a complex issue what should be disclosed rather than what legally must be disclosed.

Perhaps in full awareness of how the product will actually be cooked--and commingled--in the restaurants?

Jinmyo--be careful with herbs, some cannot be chopped or minced ahead without discoloring, like basil. Say you're making a strawberry fruit soup with a little champagne in the stock--you have to add a chiffonade of basil at the very last minute.

If I could just followup a bit after Jordan's excellent post--much depends on the volume of an establishment. There are pastry sous chefs making 55K+ in NYC working in high-volume, high staff positions--while some "name" restaurants are hiring students right out of school and low-balling them in return for the title of "pastry chef." Hotels usually pay more, then there are union shops and foodservice Restaurant Associate-type positions, and restaurants pay the least. Hourly pastry rates will be $9 to 12, especially if you are trying to work under a "top" pastry chef to learn. With all the free help and interns you don't need to pay much more. In fact, as more and more NYC restaurants stop trying to do excellent desserts and cut pastry staffs and pastry budgets accordingly, salaries will only drop. There's becoming less of a willingness on the part of restaurant owners and chefs to expend serious effort on the pastry side. This is an interesting time in NYC right now--I'm getting lots of reports from students and friends that human resources departments at several elite properties in the city have been playing games with them, there are alot of experienced NYC people who don't have work and are doing anything to stay involved, to keep their hands and minds busy while they wait and hope for the right, rewarding opportunity to open up. Keep us in the loop as your adventure continues.

Malawry, you're the best. Thanks.

"no mustard" works better.

Very interesting article: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content....sqk.asp Thanks to my favorite blog by Glenn Reynolds: http://instapundit.blogspot.com/ for drawing my attention to this article--in a journal I wouldn't ordinarily find time for--and for highlighting the impressive and over-riding impact of the conclusion, that "In a way, it's a little miracle that meat-eaters and vegetarians can come together and eat peacefully--at the Home of the Whopper no less."

Peter, I may have dissected that guy's site, but dining still comes down to alot of factors that aren't on the plate--and it hardly takes such extensive knowledge or experience to commicate about one's dining experiences. Your comments about places in Burke or elsewhere are welcomed, sincerely, and I think you risk devaluing what you have to offer. Please do not read posts of others and be scared off--this isn't a competition and no one is judging you. The only style you need to be concerned about is what you wear in Paris. I hope it didn't seem that I came down too hard on that guy Peter, but he and the Post food section asked for it by putting that site together and running that article. It wasn't personal. They opened themselves up to criticism in a way that most posters to these boards do not. That Post article took up precious column inches that could have been put to much better use. I'd have a different reaction if Cowen just posted his thoughts about a place here on eGullet. And there are many different ways to appreciate food and restaurants. Do feel free to share some of yours, what you liked and to ask questions. And remember, even experts disagree and even the best chefs still have new things to learn.

I have seen a few individual portion size Baked Alaskas and wonder if it isn't making a bit of a comeback, albeit torched in the kitchen and not flambeed tableside.

On another thread, the impeccably eloquent cabrales just wrote about how she approaches reviewing a restaurant by describing dishes against historical context and current practice: "If the comparison is sufficiently interesting, consider including it in the review. If the dish appears relatively novel in combining ingredients or tastes, try to discern why." Sage advice. Would it have been nice if Jay Rayner knew about Keller's dish and who took the Caterer junket to the French Laundry? Yes. Does it diminish Jay Rayner's perception of the dish and its taste? Not one wit. There's also a real world element to this that begs to be said--often writers, puffed up with themselves, include little cheeky, insidery, knowing comments into their reviews and articles--and guess what? Editors remove them for length or because they're more of a distraction. Happens all the time. Must all restaurant reviewers everywhere have eaten at the French Laundry? No. Should every restaurant reviewer be knowledgeable of Thomas Keller and read the French Laundry cookbook? Probably, yes. But let's not turn this into an indictment of one reviewer, who, by the way, acquits himself generously and well here.

"The practice of visiting other chefs' restaurants in order to see the best of what is available and incorporate it into your own establishment's repertoire is as old as the restaurant itself. Chefs who don't eat out much don't tend to cook very interesting food." I could not have said this better myself. Any other view is without merit, misguided, at best, delusional at worst. Even Ferran Adria eats around--he especially loves the ideas and spirit of the US--and goes back to his lab to play. Must this canard of chefs ripping other chefs off--reinterpreting, reimagining, reworking, filtering ideas--which everyone in the business does--be trotted out again and again? Can we not put this to bed once and for all as misunderstanding what it means to be a chef? So what if Heston Blumenthal went on a Caterer jaunt to El Bulli and so what if Isle of Wight guy went on a junket to the French Laundry and, not so surprisingly, each chef was inspired by their visit--so inspired, in fact, to copy or emulate techniques, combinations, or even exact dishes. Guess what--no two dishes can ever be exactly alike even with the same ingredients. Keller and Adria are two of the most pre-eminent chefs working today--who wouldn't pick up a thing or two or five from them? I learn from my students and colleagues all the time--and the best in the world themselves say that they never stop learning from others. This is neither stealing nor corrupt--and it is disingenuous to intimate otherwise. The only fault I'd find with these chefs is if they published recipes that were blatant ripoffs--or if they went on tv or were quoted in print saying what a genius they were for creating such a unique dish. I'm hardly breaking new ground here, but the real evil is the cookbook authors, newspaper food writers and glossy consumer food magazine editors who really copy recipes from one another and dumb-down what chefs do without making them better. Oh, and lazy compliant writers who regurgitate press releases which have been spoon-fed to them.

Hi Peter--I think the amateurish, tedious, poorly designed "site" is a waste of time and the article that Doug Hanks wrote for the Post food section an embarrassment. (And Hanks is a really good writer.) Cowen seems to read the Washingtonian magazine's two special issues on the 100 Best and 100 Best Bargain restaurants and doesn't break any new ground or offer any insightful or critical perspectives. He doesn't seem to know anything about wine nor does he infuse his flaccid writing with much of interest. He writes "In the last fifteen or so years, the Washington D.C. area has become a leader in ethnic restaurants. We lag behind New York City and Los Angeles, but we vie with Chicago and the Bay Area for third place in the United States." How would he know? Is he talking qualitatively or quantitatively? Nothing about this list is informed or inspired or reveals any close examination or appreciation of chefs, modern cooking or traditional foods. The few chefs he mentions by name are in predictable, unknowing fashion. Hanks writes that "Tyler Cowen's Guide to Ethnic Dining" offers short, breezy and sometimes catty reviews." He goes on "But his approach -- analytical, methodical and often solitary -- is distinctly academic." (Later in the Post piece, Hanks writes "For all its economic grounding, Cowen's dining guide would wither under much scholarly review. He will pan a restaurant after one visit or a mere look at the menu, and recommend another on a hunch.") So which is it Doug--hardly scholarly or distinctly academic? (Hanks has written much better stuff than this.) "I think of it as more than a list," the professor with a Harvard doctorate explains at dinner, projecting his voice as if sophomores might be dozing in the back row. "I think of it as a guide on how to think about food." I broke out into hysterical laughter at that point Peter--thank you so much for providing the link. If this is a guide on how to think about food, he hasn't finished 6th grade let alone gotten a PhD. OK--essentially, Cowen's main fault is that his style is pedestrian, neither reviewing nor assessing with any meaningful depth. He passes on hunches and includes anonymous snippets of what others have written and thought. To my mind all this renders him utterly irrelevant. You don't get taken seriously by saying you're serious. I guess we're supposed to forgive him this because, well, this isn't his real job and he's giving all this away for free. In this case, and unlike on eGullet, you get what you pay for. I do agree with some of his observations--who couldn't?--but they're hardly unique ones and most have been written about, discussed in print and in foodie circles by others for some time. For fine dining, he sounds like a guy who's eaten once at a few of the best restaurants--and seems in no position to talk about decline, menus, seasonality, value or chef changes. He makes no credible references to or demonstrates awareness of fine dining in the elite cities of this country or abroad--why bother to illuminate or illustrate any point? Just a few specific examples because there are way too many to waste more time over: He naively neglects to mention Sushi-Ko, Kaz Sushi Bistro and Tako Grill in his perfunctory take on Japanese and Sushi restaurants. That's enough of an omission to discredit this guy completely. "Cafe Asia--Now the place to go in Rosslyn. Surprisingly good, and quite cheap. Tasty and spicy Asian food of all varieties." Well, no, the place is abject, inferior, underwhelming, dumbed-down crap with terrible service. It's Panned-Asian. There are just too many "I am told, comes highly recommended" throwaway lines which serve to conceal the fact that Cowen doesn't know. He recommends Tutto Bene like this--well, Tutto Bene sucks big time and is utterly unremarkable and easily forgettable. Cowen rightly mentions Myanmar Restaurant, 7810-C Lee Highway, Falls Church--but so what? even Phyllis got that unknown, garishly lit but surprisingly pleasant hole-in-the-wall place right years ago and she never ventured far out into the burbs until her malaise and decades of bias caught up to her. "Cafe Atlantico, recently reopened near Chinatown" oh really? This guy is timely and astute. For years now Cafe--in that location-- has been one of only a handful of exciting interesting DC restaurants that also happened to garner heaps of serious media attention. Jose Andres hasn't been there for 2 years and Christy Velie is pushing it in slightly different directions. Cowen writes "The premier nouvelle Latin and Caribbean restaurant in this area" and "So far I see no signs of decline, but I am expecting them, given the squareness of the new clientele." That's helpful, huh? I'll let Cowen in on two by now well-known secrets--first, this part of town hops, despite its promximity to the Mall and an influx of tourists, Jaleo and Cafe Atlantico still have tons of young, beautiful people vying for elbow room that--far from being square--are appreciative of the eclectic and interesting cuisine and wine--offered at a bargain relatively speaking. Second, our Chinatown is getting so squeezed out it's more a China-hamlet. "Entotto, Reservoir Road and McArthur or thereabouts, NW. The most refined Ethiopian place around. Run by an Ethiopian woman and her French husband, modeled after the place they had in France. Definitely worthwhile, you cannot go wrong here." Well, yes you can--go wrong, I mean. Terribly wrong. Three times in fact I've had service underwhelmed only by the food. And I really, really wanted to like this place because of the cute story about the Ethiopian chef and her French husband, which has been repeated ad infinitum. I'd read Sietsema and Eve Zibart in the Post and in online discussions and read the whole Washingtonian gang first. (If Brett Anderson were still here, I'd still suggest reading him--alas, he's missed.) And Malawry is a much better writer and I think understands food a whole lot better than this guy. There you have it.

Tony--as an aside, like you, I can't imagine a North African restaurant getting a Michelin star in France...but I have dined with a Michelin-starred chef in a little-known North African restaurant in Paris--indeed, it was his favorite "local" restaurant.

Really good Christopher, really good. But then that was before Lee died and before their big franchise push all over the place. You should come back to Clarendon and Courthouse for a visit--there's some interesting development going on--a "Ballston-like" encrouchment on all the used car/old timey quaint character of the neighborhood. We're going upscale and upladder in a hurry. There's a slick "Boulevard Woodgrill" set to open diagonally across the corner from Whitlow's on Wilson ( a place, incidentally, where I have never had adequate food.) Have you seen the new fake "Shirlington-style" town center that just opened up across the street from the Whole Foods Market? It's anchored on one side by Pottery Barn and on the other side by Crate & Barrel. What this portends for dining--fine or otherwise--remains to be seen. Just my luck Kinkead's will open a spin-off.

Well Bux--perhaps we can effect change. It's a perfect dish for the business lunch menu transitioning from Winter to Spring: 90% of it can be prepared in advance, requires minimal plating a la minute, is quick, cool, visually intriguing and provides the cleanest possible start. Perhaps Jean-Francois Bruel getting a James Beard award nomination might refocus attention where it belongs, if this thread is any indicator.

Steve--it was a Crozes-Hermitage Domaine de Chenets (sp?) '98 I think, I didn't take the menu but it was one of four reds listed by the glass. A larger version of the beef in gelee is available on the dinner menu as an app, I have since learned. On the dinner menu, foie gras is listed as an ingredient--I did not detect its inclusion in the amuse; also, if there is horseradish in the creamy topping--it is not too strong and very harmonious. You'd have to search for its presence if you dig down and scoop up all the way to the bottom.

What if you could only drink wine from one producer--literally--so reds and whites from a single producer? My answer would be Chappellet Vineyards--their Signature Cabs are fine examples of the form and have a track record over time, their dry whites are wonderful food matches (very un-California-like Chardonnays with oak in balance and Old Vine chenin blancs--a dynamic duo for most cuisines) and, lest anyone forget, the single best dessert wine ever produced in the United States--their Moelleux.

Interesting points applejak--I'd suggest Illy has serious pod designs on the professional market too if they're smart, as so many testaments of shitty espresso in restaurants attest to. Remove as much of the variability from the equation--reduce the need for training and calibration and oversight--and improve the overall experience of the customer?

Would you agree, MYoung, that readers would be better served with less compromise, less default to the lowest common denominator? All that does is muddle and confuse, no? Collaborations between writers, editors and chefs would be so much more helpful, illustrative and raise appreciation for all concerned if the substitutions and compromises were noted--and explained as inferior and less good. Magazines that dumb down do a disservice to chef and reader, diminishing the distinction between home cooking and professional cooking. Come over to the media board and speak to this issue further if you are so inclined. Your voice would be appreciated.

Can any member weigh in on this issue: I ordered an $11 Rhone red off the "by-the-glass" list--which was delicious and refilled, touched up a bit, before I was finished with my burger. I wasn't charged for the refill. Has that happened to anyone else at db? Steve P--you expressed my thoughts exactly and much more perceptively.

Ok, first off, the burger is all that and more--Liza and I were kidding each other that we'd have to use several of those over-used restaurant reviewer/cliche'd food writer-type words to describe it--and upset hundreds of eGullet members in the process. Perfect, sublime, whatever, doesn't do it justice. In fact, we both picked it up and chomped down on it just like a burger--it seemed so natural I had to wonder why anyone around us was using a knife and fork to dismantle it. (Our server estimated 40% or more of his patrons order the burger on a given shift.) I had been tipped off to the excellence of this burger by Tom Head, executive wine and food editor of Washingtonian magazine, one palate in DC I've learned to trust. We weren't dining anonymously and I asked to meet Christina Aliberti, the pastry chef, who I didn't know, so I could introduce myself and her to Liza. (Side note--I was impressed that Daniel Boulud saw fit to include a charming picture of himself with both Jean-Francois, the chef de cuisine and Christina on the front page of db's informative website, which Bux linked to above; both chefs are featured by name on the menus, too. In this era of celebrity chef branding, I cannot tell you how rare this generosity is on the part of Daniel.) An amuse followed that I didn't see anyone else receive during that service--and what a stunning opening. Presented in a clear shotglass, two braised beef cubes and a tiny brunoise of colorful vegetables suspended in a subtly-spiced gelee covered with a thin layer of red liquid (beet? pomegranate? not sure, probably beet) and topped with an ethereal white root vegetable emulsion the consistency of sabayon. There was a tiny dot of red and a single leaf of chervil on top. Refined, elegant and clean. I don't want to steal any thunder from Liza, so I won't comment completely and let her weigh in and then I'll weave in and around her thoughts. But Wilfrid, one dish we both enjoyed was the earthy, wintry fettucine with porcini mushrooms--easily the equal of any of the Babbo pastas I've had. Makes me speculate that these French guys can toss off Italian in their sleep.

Ajay--I felt mentioning the book--in cabrales' context at Roellinger--could not hurt but wondered if it might help. The book is expensive, isn't in English and perhaps <75 copies were sold in the US. An American speaking knowledgeably of the book would indicate seriousness of purpose. But I think it's important that you're actually familiar with the book--enough to refer to specific dishes for example or to mention the complex spice mixtures when asking the maitre'd or sommelier for wine advice. But I think the larger point might be called awareness of the chef and the experience in advance--and that could be acquired without access to a book--you could read articles, reports, reviews, google the chef or restaurant and read eGullet in depth. Don't go into a serious restaurant--with preconceptions or misplaced expectations--based on your own failure to do your homework. One thing I would advise is not to expect or count any of the little amuse or gifts--if you get them, great; if you don't, don't make a fuss--just notice whether other patrons (perhaps French-speaking) were receiving them, however--and then report back here! Also, keep in mind that the number and variety of these gifts from the chef vary from menu to menu--even on the same night. The best meals of my life have been at the hands of French chefs--when I've been in the company of other French chefs--with one exception, and that was my meal at Ducasse-NY. Though I am a chef, I do not speak French and have never even attempted brutalizing their language when I am over there but I was familiar enough with French culinary terms to get by, I feel drinking wine with every course is essential and I am demure and deferential when someone else is cooking for me. Bux has weighed in well on this issue and perhaps we'll see him here--but I agree with one of his themes in that you can improve your experience by demonstrating your knowledge, awareness, appreciation--even reverance if you will. Strategies for enhancing your meal in France? Well, having a French chef call to make your reservations helps big time. And I do think dressing well--if you are like me--dressing more stylishly than you normally might--is a big plus. (Not breaking new ground that.) I always get bottled water in Europe and if I'm hit up for an apertif, I ask for the wine list if I don't have it already. No Lillet for me.

Stu--I asked about the language because there is an ongoing theme that runs across many threads here about service and treatment in restaurants--and I think a lot of non-French speakers would benefit from knowing whether they'd be at a disadvantage--or, as Cabrales indicates in this instance, no disadvantage at all, in being able to communicate to the staff. I've been in restaurants in France where the menu was entirely in French, the service staff, though sincere, had little command of English, only to be saved by other diners seated nearby who took pity on us--and helped with translations--even describing what they liked best and how "their" restaurant plated things.