Steve Klc

"Martha has provided us with so much good and bad fodder for so long that she dwarfs the impact of all these other lightweight food personalities combined." I assure everyone I had no insider knowledge of how correct this observation would become.

Wilfrid--most definitely yes, I think the concept works largely because it is a small 24 seat dining room--and Gian Piero's personalizing influence in that dining room.

C--Here's part of what I posted on eGullet the first week of September in our first Citarella thread: "Bill Yosses, formerly of Bouley Bakery, is the pastry chef at Citarella (and both a colleague and friend.) Here his desserts are delicate and refined in flavor and presentation--and they follow the food in spirit. My favs: the elderflower parfait, the chocolate jasmine napoleon, the candy cane rhubarb with yogurt cream, and the fig napoleon with tangerine. Most of the diners around us ordered the same 2 desserts--the two that are the most clearly accessible: the apple "conversation" and the warm vanilla cake with 12 bean vanilla ice cream (Bill calls this informally "Death by Vanilla" and the cake is baked a la minute.) Granted, these two are delicious, but if you are the least bit adventurous, you will be rewarded by going beyond. He's even created a line of interesting desserts for the downstairs sushi bar that is traditional and atypical--several wagashi, tofu with pomegranate seeds and molasses that was much better than it sounds, and alot of stuff with fruit and agar-agar. The jiggly black sesame pudding was to die for (if not necessarily to look at.) I was really envious of his white chocolate ganache infused with green tea, too. Killer. If you want to try any of these--and are not seated at the sushi bar--Bill told me you can request them upstairs." Three weeks later, we had a thread about his use of vanilla, after Amanda Hesser discovered Bill's cake and wrote a column about it, here: http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?s=...&hl=bill+yosses I haven't had anything of Bill's since November, but I feel safe saying he remains one of the very best dessert destinations in the city.

Cabrales--the Ma Gastronomie version by Point specifies 2# yellow fleshed potatoes sliced very thin, lightly salted and peppered and laid into the vessel, which has first been rubbed with garlic, sprinkled with salt and coated with butter. The mixture is one beaten egg, 8 ounces of scalded milk and 1 T heavy cream. The "no cheese should ever be used" is in italics as well. But what comes through from reading the book is that exact amounts of things are not that important, intuition about what seems right is. He advises to start the cooking on top of the stove and finish in a slow oven for 30-40 minutes. This is a nice version but I have made the same Laracine gratin version from Wells Bistro book and love it as much as Steve P. Not to change the subject, but the really, really amazing potato dish from Point & Ma Gastronomie is the "Pommes Dauphine." 10 ounces of pate a choux with 2 # of mashed potatoes, 3.5 ounces of butter and 4 yolks. Then rolled or piped into little "cork" shapes and deep fried.

Michael--I go matcha. I just tried to work a green tea component into a dessert for one of my summer menus--thought I'd pair it with a ginger infused chocolate flan/cream and a chocolate coulant cake. So I tried a green tea foam two ways: a matcha foam, with the powder just weighed out and added to warm water with a little sugar and the softened gelatin and a creme anglaise with the powder stirred in at the end. I liked the flavor and consistency of both as foams--the matcha/gelatin was white with the palest green tint. For one experiment I used a pre-sweetened matcha tea mix from Teaism, a local tea shop in DC, and it worked well as a gelatin foam--but was too sweet to work by itself. However, I couldn't get either of them to work right in the dessert in the time I had. So I went to a plain chocolate flan/cream, the coulant cake, a creme anglaise with ginger as a foam (undercharged it has the consistency of a sabayon) and then some fresh orange sections, candied orange rind bits and toasted sesame seeds. It's my best seller. I do infuse the kind of green tea that comes with the little toasted rice bits--I love that infused in a cream, comes out kind of malty--and I have made that into a nice beige ice cream.

They don't have to be green, though, unless aided. I've made both pistachio and green tea creams, sauces, custards--with wonderful flavor but both can have a natural color that ends up malty or pale because often you're blending or infusing into a cream or creme anglaise. As Steve says--leafy, herbal--I'd add vegetal, grassy, strawlike are more common for green tea. The politically-correct would say the flavor is more nuanced and subtle, the less correct would say it's just not interesting enough. I'm kind of in the middle. I suspect that shade of green which has been standardized or commercialized for both flavors is something done more for the eye than the palate. Mint has also been abused or enhanced visually, depending on your perspective. Aside from this there's a technical aspect--infusing, preparing and extracting green teas--or powders like matcha--bring their own set of little complications compared with how black teas might be integrated into food.

Ali--you need to be a little more shameless if your self-promotion is going to work. Tell us about this place and why we should care?

In light of this, what does the restaurant gain besides a potential marketing concept? Do you think this concept will eventually be seen as fatally flawed: that it puts too much pressure on the diner to 1) be knowledgeable and proactive rather than reactive (to a menu) and 2) forces the diner to expose--and then rattle off what they don't want rather than what they do? They save time and expense by not printing up daily menus; Since they aren't promising certain combinations of things--like the peas with the escobar--on the menu they probably don't have to prep as many portions of things and don't have anywhere near the waste or unused ingredients hanging around. Anything else?

That's right. Our own Malawry has decided to leave her job, enroll in a full-time professional chef program at a cooking school--you go girl--and after sweating it out in the kitchen and classroom all week, she's agreed to keep an online diary of the experience here at eGullet. Unlike other attempts I've seen on the web, this one will be interactive--aided by our superior board software--though of course only Malawry and her jacket will get battered, burned and stained. The format will be similar to Steve Shaw's cross country weblog--Malawry posts new entries each week and you're all encouraged to add your responses, post comments or ask questions after each entry. Her program begins July 1st. For her first entry I've asked her to set the stage for us--to fill in the blanks of the motivational equation that led her to take this significant step--and to speak a bit to her goals, hopes and expectations going into the experience. A new direction for Malawry. Another step for eGullet. Yes, this is the same school I went to 10 years ago. Oh, one other thing: Malawry's not exactly an omnivore. Yet.

Then again, John, those might be the same folks who thought birth control pills had any link to breast cancer. Admittedly, it would be more helpful to hear from genuine food historians about how to identify and verify sources with the accuracy of a trained scholar, and discuss books riddled with demonstrable errors out in the open--know any who care enough? (But it would probably be easier to find anthropologists, who as scientists have supposedly been studying food all along.) We'd sure welcome them to come out and play anyway. Online they could even remain anonymous and say what they really think, though they'd still hurt the feelings of any mainstream but flawed author. That's always the best corrective for those darn superficial journalists as well. But that would bring us back to useful output and demonstrating the worthiness of the endeavor, as Shaw posed previously. And can you imagine what would happen if a few "genuine chefs," anonymous or otherwise, ever started to weigh in at eGullet?

Steve and spqr: Doctorate in Classics from the University of Toronto and at the time "The Rituals of Dinner" was published back in '91 the jacket said she was now teaching "Classics" at York University in Toronto. Which seems to support Shaw's "academic but not in food studies" option.

Wilfrid--perhaps you'd like to add a few words about how you found the accomodations as a guest? Were you glad you chose to stay in Old Town, as it turned out, versus downtown DC? And could the action in that raucous piano bar be heard up in your room?

Thanks Ron and Shaw for the summary--I forgot to record it so pardon me while I set my machine for Sunday.

Be sure you look in on this thread over in the Wine board: http://forums.egullet.org/ibf/index.php?ac...a11cdd269665b1c

Wilfrid--the little plated dessert was a tiny jiggly panna cotta with a mostly red berry sauce and brunoise sprinkled about. I agree with you it was by far the most successful of the dessert offerings--which otherwise underwhelmed--and was beautifully presented in the well of a square clear bluish-green glass plate. I, too, enjoyed the small dessert amuse of peach and peach sorbet served in a sleek, sophisticated clear flute most of all. Desserts have improved steadily but remain a weakness. This was my third time here, the first being on my birthday in March, so I've experienced it now three times in the past 3 months. I remain quite taken with the charm, elegance and accessibility of the place, which belies its formal atmosphere, the intimate dining room of 24 or so seats and especially the enthusiasm of the chef, who is a natural at composing artistic plates. It remains an under-appreciated gem on the DC high-end dining scene and while recognized early on by Washingtonian magazine's Cynthia Hacinli it has not yet been reviewed by the Post's Tom Sietsema. I am sooo very glad it did not disappoint Wilfrid, who, shall we say, was quite nattily attired. Valet parking service is complimentary (which is nice since Old Town is tough to park in) with polite and charming attendants to greet you instantly at the front gate and also to open the front door for you before you even realize they are aware of your presence. We dined at the peak of service, about 8:30 by the time we sat down. If you want more face-time with Gian Piero at your table, dine early, say 6PM, and chat away. They call this "A Chef of Your Own." He's careful to ask if you have any dietary restrictions or allergies and a young server takes written notes the whole time in the background. The bread is still a weakness, typically crappy soft, indistinct rolls and spongy focaccia, made in house. I'd rather they outsource to a bread specialist. I'll add in and around Wilfrid's comments--the amuse tartars were served on little crisp but indeterminate triangles on a rectangular white flat plate. Elegant. Clean. The rectangular white plates would reappear throughout the meal. I thought pate a brick but Colleen quickly said no. It was a paper thin and perfectly crisp if not identifiable tuile. A pretty good start. I asked Gian Piero for a little something of each of the fish and shellfish offerings of that day, so he served me a progression from 1) "tuna two ways" with tiny, light gnocchi pillows, a composed salad, several drizzles of wine and balsamic reductions and an herb oil, to 2) another two component dish: an angular piece of escobar filet with seared foie gras resting atop a quenelle shaped watercress panna cotta (a la Thomas Keller--that's my note, not Gian Piero's) which could have been a bit more delicate or smooth. The foie and escobar combination worked AND on the other end of the plate a little stacked scene of a sea bass-type fish assuredly not the politically incorrect Chilean-type with some of Wilfrid's English peas to 3) a "lobster two ways" dish, a piece of a warm roasted tail stacked presented with a cold composed lobster claw/leg meat salad. (I am a sucker for these cold garde manger-type presentations and commented as such to Wilfrid about how I liked NYC's L'Absinthe so much for that very reason. Neither of us, under the pressure of the moment could remember the exact name of the chef. It's Jean-Michel Bergougnoux.) Clearly, Gian Piero works the same things from the market, like the peas and beans, or sides like the different risottos and gnocchi, into different combinations/substitutions/additions for each diner and each dish. Loved the way the plates are presented--angled from say 5 o'clock stretching to say 10 o'clock--and with Gian Piero's inherent artistic sense and eye for plating this invariably looks like a little tapestry of color. Refined, stylish, sophisticated and urbane. Wilfrid had some funky yellow bean cradling his slab of Hudson Valley foie gras--do you remember the name of that bean? I had the same salad as Wilfrid and found it a gift of cool, clean flavors. I enjoyed the slender yellow corn shoots, too, picking them out and eating them separately. Service in the dining room has not improved over the course of my three visits--in fact there were all new, young faces in the dining room this time. The previous young faces were earnest, professional and perfectly attentive. If anything, it slid back two steps which I'd attribute to the same things Wilfrid noted--the less experienced maitre'd/sommelier that night rather than the more assured Edward Berriman. We had to wait for our very nicely matched wines too long, too often after several courses were already served. And Wilfrid, don't forget you were asked if you'd like that bottle of Ting put on ice for you! The next time I go--I'm picking the wines I want off the list first--and then saying to Gian Piero create a dish around each wine.

Bux--a bit about the dye. Step back a bit--why be concerned about a natural product added to improve the visual appearance, and hence the diner's ultimate satisfaction, as it is brought to the table and set in front of him? Are you concerned about a pastry chef adding a microscopic percentage by weight of a natural stabilizer--like guar gum, carob, whatever--to a sorbet mixture so it doesn't form ice crystals so readily--and so when the diner bites into it he is not disappointed? I confess I add a half drop of a food safe blue dye to my pistachio creme brulee to give it a visually-appealing green tint. The flavor is what is important. But if you have that covered and improve the color of something to meet diner's expectations and so you don't prompt an initial negative visual perception of the diner, what's really so bad? It's exhibiting total care for the diner. I'd hope you'd still consider eating my pistachio creme brulee.

Not that Daniel needs any help. My favorite passage of the review was: "Questionable assumptions abound: ''At the end of the 20th century . . . traditional fine arts -- painting, photography, sculpture, music, theater, dance and literature -- had become lackluster and static''; ''The chef as a creative talent was a relatively new idea.'' Mixed metaphors fly in close formation: ''The slice of mankind that is lucky enough to dine at Daniel is certainly recharged by Boulud's exalted contribution.'' But you know what? I couldn't put this crummy book down. There's a certain affinity group that simply can't resist a book like this, and I must admit, though not without shame, that I'm part of it." I'm in that affinity group as well.

Everyone handles stress and pressure differently in any occupation or profession. Perhaps part of the problem is that cooking has not historically been viewed as a profession but rather as a trade or occupation. Does anyone really think line cooks at small restaurants are treated significantly better, on the whole, than low level auto mechanics changing oil in a gas station somewhere? But all those eGulleteers bringing a white collar perspective to this thread have expanded the issue--that it is more of an all-encompassing issue of abuse, workplace rights and or unprofessional conduct which cuts across much more than the pass. When Steve P. writes "But I think that societal behavior changes more slowly in places where the traditions are historically chauvenistic and authoritarian in the first place. Doesn't anyone see a connection between the employment of apprentices or stagieres and the type of behavior being described?" I found myself answering most definitely "yes." At times kitchen help are barely treated better than migrant farm workers. Many of these old French/European chefs are jerks in the kitchen and act, to varying degrees, inappropriately as pompous egotistic autocratic Marine drill seargents because when they 13 they were thrust into the care of that previous generation's ill-mannered chef and beaten down to the point that it's an ingrained cycle--so that it's ok for him to treat anyone he comes into contact as the equivalent of the 13 year old boy he once was. All the while saying "mon cherie" and smilingly flirtatiously to any female outside his kitchen and of course keeping up the disingenuous facade with any food media. Heaven help you in the kitchen. This was called "paying your dues." I'm hopeful this is changing but the last vestige of this old guard is still at the stove and in some cases, still are our reigning media darlings and "top" chefs. That's the interesting upshot of all this--which the US might be the driving force behind--is that we're smarter, more sensitive, more media-savvy and more aware as a society now, even if a high percentage of people going into food and cooking have not gone to college first. Going to college and entering a white collar profession isn't a way out of this. But in the US we have more and more college grads becoming chefs, professionals changing careers to willingly enter food because they are passionate or creative and can't get food out of their blood. Far fewer products of the French/European apprentice/guild/trade school system will remain. I suspect whatever change we've seen so far, as some posters on this thread have said they've witnessed, will just continue to reach critical mass. Chaulk another one up for America. It's hard, hot, stressful work. There's yelling. Get over it. However, the most important issue to realize is you don't have to stand for an abusive situation. Leave. Get a new job. You are empowered by your talent and work ethic and you are ultimately responsible for how people treat you. There are union-protected jobs mostly in hotels which are at times stifling creatively but offer no filter or protection for sensitive souls; there are also very nice, very professional chefs and pastry chefs out there in restaurants, hotels, bakeries who will treat you with respect and show you loyalty. You just have to value yourself enough to try to find them. Until you pay your dues enough to control your own destiny.

Aurora--I'll pick up a bit with respect to Trotter's books in a way Steve P. perhaps doesn't feel qualified to. This thread originally started to develop a list of "classic cookbooks" or "some books no cookbook collection should be without." Clearly food pros vs. home cooks may have different criteria for inclusion on their lists--and it's interesting to figure out who was moved and why. The Trotter books moved you at a point in time--with reflection--would you call them "classic" and do you feel no cookbook collection should be without them? If not now--do you feel they will evolve into classics and still be sought out and referenced time and time again in the future? You also wrote that the Trotter books helped you "learn how to take more chances with ingredients, infusions, reductions and flavor combinations" and that "Charlie Trotter is not the only chef who is known for such inventiveness." At this point I'll interject that I'm not a chef and haven't even opened any of his books other than "Charlie Trotter's Desserts," which came out in 1998. So my reaction would be only to this book and only as a pastry chef. By the time Trotter's dessert book came out, we already had serious, groundbreaking, inspirational dessert books by Pierre Herme, Michel Bras, Frederic Bau and Alberto Adria. From my perspective, there is an enormous qualitative difference between these superior titles--all destined to become "classic"--and the Trotter book. Compared with these roughly concurrent titles--the Trotter book is distinguished more by gloss than actual substance. The volume stands out for 1) glorious full page food photography, 2) chapter introductions which noted friendly dessert wine pairings and 3) an "exoticism" of ingredients which seemed intentionally, purposefully weird rather than "inventive." And I don't mean to deny that visual gloss can't be inspirational. I know many chefs who open books and magazines solely to see how dishes are presented--for visual stimulation--and never cook from any of the recipes. There's hardly anything "inventive" or new about the Trotter in terms of dessert technique, no valuable step-by-step or revealing in process shots, and nothing on the order of the personal inspiration, the searching or the creativity that comes through so clearly in the other books I mentioned. Perhaps pastry was Trotter's weakest area, perhaps this is more a reflection of his pastry chefs. I was wondering what reaction you might have had, if any, to the Dessert volume specifically as opposed to the other volumes of the series. But shortly after his Desserts came out--the French Laundry Cookbook came out. Now that is an impressive, inspirational, even lyrical book--again, I'm not a chef--but it would get my vote for the pre-eminent modern chef's cookbook, dwarfing all that came before. A "classic" which all other chef's cookbooks will be held up to and have a shadow cast upon. I don't think you have to be a chef to appreciate this book, either. How does the Trotter series compare with the single volume Keller/Ruhlman collaboration? Anyone else agree this will be the benchmark classic?

Mynamejoe--thank you for linking to Bourdain's "In Defense of Hazing," such an appropriate article.

Wilfrid--if you went to Chicama dressed as you were on Saturday night, you would undoubtedly have been pulled into the swirl of the raucous scene and become its epicenter--even before the show tunes were to break out.

Thanks Jim--are you able to observe or sense any correlation with organic wine in your store or stores--either in depth or quality of selection or consumer interest? I'm off to my local Whole Foods to check out Lamar Street--thanks for the tip and I hope you feel comfortable sticking around.

First off, mlpc, you have a keen eye and you've already added considerable depth to the site. For finding the time, thank you. Do you know if the Chef's Garden piece is online? Would you be willing to post whatever links you have to those newspapers general food sections? Is Hour magazine online? That Chef's Garden piece--if it turns out not to mention the small handful of local restaurants who use their product and not run at least a few quotes from local chefs--would seem a callous and stunning indictment of what you and the Detroit area are up against. In most cases like this--of seeming purposeful avoidance--my first thought is that a newspaper food section editor doesn't want to upset local advertisers or paint them in a poor light. Do any powerful local purveyors or markets advertise in the food section--or restaurants which have a reputation but not the raw goods to stack up to those sourcing the highest quality ingredients? The restaurant review policies of the Free Pree seem damning to me as well. I'm unaware of any other city employing such culinary relativism--perhaps other members around the country are aware?

Cabrales--might the icewine have been the Gold label oak-aged Vidal? That's priced higher than their regular Vidal icewine. It's been awhile, but I think I've seen the half-bottle 1998 Gold going for $80 in some stores up there. There's no doubt buying directly from the winery--which has a nice library and tasting room--is better and cheaper.

beerguyjim--are you aware how US "organic" labelling and certification standards differ from European standards--and whether England, Belgium and France, for instance, all hew to the same standard? In the US, which agencies certify adherence to these standards--agencies paid for by the producers themselves? Or are claims in practice unenforced? In your role at Whole Foods--what % of your customers seem to feel that "organic" matters, at least when it comes to beer? I've gotten Jade in the past from Whole Foods, but not seen Lamar Street just yet--do you mean to imply Lamar Street is a Whole Foods house brand, kind of like Allegro coffee? Thank you for adding your expertise to our site Jim.