Sugarella

Yep, that's a beauty! Congratulations...... I have to ask a stupid question though. What are those yellow and green spinning top shaped thingamies on the platter?

I make fudge a lot and have quite a few concoctions, but I'm looking to make it all much better. Unfortunately all of the recipes I've come across are "quickie" recipes and sickly sweet, but I'd rather do it the slow, old fashioned way, which will not only improve taste & texture but will likely give me more consistent formulas, hopefully. When I was a kid there was a place in Niagara Falls that made the best fudge ever..... not terribly sweet, very tasty, detectable ingredients, smooth and creamy, etc. And you could watch the guy walk quickly around a marble table paddling it with a big wooden spatula. Any ideas where I could learn the old fashioned standard formulas or the correct method?? I've tried looking online but no luck finding the real deal.....

Well I'm a bit taken aback here. No, I wasn't speaking directly to you, Wendy, I was answering the question of the original poster and sharing my opinion, and that opinion was to be forthright about what you use and to be happy with your product. There was no attack intended, nor can I find one after rereading what I wrote several times. And although several people made statements to not dsclose the use of mixes, I chose to quote you and K8 because your quotes were more "to the point." I was trying to not have too many quotes in my post, that's all. No ill will intended to the people I quoted; I just found both of your statements more articulate. Nope, not standing in judgement or being on higher ground. Also not disapproving, either. I wrote that if Dailey prefers the mix cake then she should by all means use the mix cake. Ok, 3 statements that I'd suggested cake mixes are poison and this is absolutely not the case. I never said anything of the sort and I have no idea how you get that out of what I wrote. Let me clarify....I don't think cake mixes are poison, nor do I think the use of them is criminal in any way. I don't think people who use cake mixes are bad people. You work in a facility as a pastry chef....Dailey and I work for ourselves and sell made-to-order cakes directly to our customers. There's a difference there, in that we deal with customers face-to-face and therefore have to field many more questions about the product before we can sell it, as I'm sure you're aware. So my post was in response to Dailey, or to anyone reading who is in the same situation, to simply make the product you feel tastes the best and to stand behind it, whatever that product may be. Hope that clarifies. Again, no ill will or disrespect intended to anyone.

I believe your chocolate cakes keep their texture after freezing and thawing because the cocoa powder is so alkaline/acidic. Try adding ingredients with similar properties to your white and yellow recipes and I'm sure you'll see similar results to your chocolate, as I have. I freeze all of my cakes because .....how to explain this.... they just seem to develop a better "body." I don't know what chemical reaction causes this, but they do keep a good crumb for longer periods, keep their structure, and are able to retain their moisture for longer as well. After baking I cool them to room temp, freeze overnight just so they're solid, then bring back to a thawed state under refridgeration the next morning. I've done side-by-side comparisons of all my cakes having some fresh and some previously frozen, and after several days the previously frozen cake tatses much fresher than the fresh one does. And because I do weddings where cakes need to be worked on for days I do of course need them remain fresher for longer, so I never skip this step. Pastry chefs do heartily believe that pastries and cakes should never be frozen, but this belief has roots in the days long before the invention of plastic wrap, and of course it would have been a no-no back then. But times change.

Well, because you said you want this for a meat-only cake, a potato-based mock frosting was the first thing that came to mind. Rice-based quickly came second. Mashed potatoes or pureed rice would be a good starch to bind the other ingredients together. I did once make a shepherd's pie the wrong way and my potatoes spread like buttercream, but it was awfully good. And they even browned in the oven like meringue. Try cooking some whites with cream of tartar like you would for buttercream, minus the sugar, then whip your butter into them. Seperately, mash your potatoes or rice with heavy cream or buttermilk for a smooth consistency, then cream the two together. The possibilities for herbs and flavoured oils are endless. Is that what you were looking for? Boy, I'm hungry now.

I'm a professional baker of the "wouldn't touch a mix with a ten foot pole" variety, but one thing I've learned over the years is that you just can't please every potential customer, so you might as well produce what you like, and your customers will follow suit. People will either like your cakes or they won't, and there isn't one cake or buttercream recipe that all people will enjoy, either. Some people like very sweet, some people prefer barely sweet.... and wouldn't you rather be producing cakes that you enjoy eating as well? You can't effectively represent and sell a product you don't really believe in. So if you think your doctored mix tastes better than any all-scratch recipe you've found for the same cake, then by all means use it and stand behind it. Just don't serve it to me. .......... I completely have to disagree with these comments though. It's not inappropriate at all to want to know what you're eating; it's not rude, and as professionals are we not obligated to disclose ingredients to those who ask? Mixes do contain emulsifiers and preservatives, and sometimes food dyes, and some people may be asking due to allergies. I don't think lying about the quality of your product is appropriate or professional at all. And if you do feel the need to lie, couldn't one assume you're not proud of the product you're using? If that's the case then you shouldn't be using it. If you don't have any issues with what you're using then you should unashamedly disclose it. I don't mean the recipe, I mean the ingredients, especially if those could be an issue for someone. What's wrong with saying you use a doctored mix recipe? People do know what that means. There's only 2 good reasons for someone to ask: 1 ~ They want to know what they're eating, or may not want to eat cake mix - so be it. Be truthful. 2 ~ They're fishing for any excuse to lower the cake price. If that's the case and they found out you were actually baking from scratch, believe me, they'd find another reason to whine about how it's not fair they have to pay for something they ordered. But finding good scractch recipes for cakes, like any good food recipe, are like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but they do exist. Too bad there's so many crap recipes out there that so many people give up and resort to mixes, simply because they don't have the time to wade through a million crappy recipes. And as for comparing this to asking boxers or briefs..... uhm..... well, will they be eating the underpants??

I'm glad this topic was given new life recently but I do have to sadly report that I've wasted an entire evening reading all of this. Although all opinions and anecdotes are always welcome, and I'm not dumping on anyone for theirs, I've noticed that 2 and a half years and fifteen pages later there doesn't seem to be any real answer to Mark's original question..... What is a restaurant owner to do in this situation? I'm quite suprised it hasn't been brought up yet, but small children running under foot of a server carrying scalding food and beverages (in an upscale restaurant, mind you, where they cannot reasonably be expected to dodge rapidly moving obstactles as a server in a family oriented place would be expected to do so) is an accident waiting to happen and is most certainly a liability issue for the restaurant. Suppose that hot pot of coffee is accidentally dropped on a child's head, burning him and scarring him permanently, heaven forbid. Would the restaurant be liable? To the best of my knowledge, in all jurisdictions in North America, the answer would be YES. And why?.... Because the restaurant allowed that child to be running under foot unattended and would therefore be responsible for any accidents. In the same vein, some people may think food-throwing is just something that children do, but forks are generally just as easily at hand as a child's food is. And having been the recipient of a thrown fork quite recently that, had it not missed me and had lodged itself in my eyeball instead blinding me permanently, you'd better believe I'd sue. I'm not a sue-happy person but losing an eyeball at dinner would probably incite me to become one. And before anybody decides to ridicule the preposterousness of the possibility of such an unfortunate event, let me remind you I cite this an an example because it is a completely possible scenario, as I've witnessed. So, now that we've established that a restaurant can in no way, shape or form allow this behaviour of any patron in order to protect its own financial interests, I do have a suggestion for you that might help solve a problem before it starts: Considering you're at an upscale, trendy restaurant, I expect it's fair to say that most customers do end up waiting a few moments before being seated, whether they have reservations or not. Use this to your advantage. Parties with smaller children who are left waiting a few moments can easily be guaged as to the type of behaviour you can expect for the rest of the evening. If the child/ren cannot sit still or are being disruptive while waiting to be seated and the parents do nothing, then you just don't seat them, period. The hostess can inform the parents that they're being too disruptive and that it's a liability issue for the restaurant. Nothing wrong with this, and in fact I expect your insurance carrier would agree. If the parents are upset by it and promise to never return, well then you really win! If you're upscale and trendy someone else with well behaved children will walk in the door in 2 minutes anyways. I'm speaking of very small children here, but children that pass the "5 minute wait test" should of course be seated with their family, and the Windows on the World approach mentioned pages and pages ago should then be adopted. After all, if you let them in and serve them you should be prepared to cater to their needs and entertain them as well as any other patron. Immediately they should be occupied with something inexpensive (on the house) to keep them entertained, such as a fancy umbrella drink (non-alcoholic - see below) or a very light hors d'oeuvre. Consider it inexpensive crankiness insurance. And seat them near a window or something interesting, and have the servers engage them as readily as they would an adult patron. After that, leave it to the parents. Then, if all hell breaks loose later on and the parents do nothing, one warning to remain seated/not throw things/not spit/scream/crap their diaper then proceed to wander around the restaurant removing their own diaper because Mommy's too busy to change it (ugh....been in that restaurant too!). One warning....after that you just have to throw them out. It's a relatively simple concept, really. You can't allow other patrons to behave that way so why is it acceptable for children? Quite simply put, it isn't, because you're liable for everything they do. I've never understood the age-old adage that "the customer is always right" and other such nonsense. 95% of the time the customer is right, and you should bend over backwards to please them, but the other 5% are just dickheads that you can easily replace with better customers by not accomodating them, by not rewarding bad behaviour. I cannot understand why businesses are so afraid to stand up for themselves, especially in this day and age of frivolous lawsuits being so common. If your customer puts up a fuss, just keep the business' best interests in mind and, if you have to, pull out the big guns and cite liability issues, insurance issues, or health department requirements. (as in the case of the diaper incident I witnessed.) I don't undersand why this is such a hard concept for some people to grasp. It's YOUR restaurant. Act like it. Having said all that, I do happen to be one of those people who thinks children SHOULD go to restaurants. I went to upscale places when I was quite small, and there was never an issue. But then again, I wasn't ever allowed to get up from the dinner table at home or scream at the top of my lungs or throw things either, so I'm pretty sure it never occured to me to do it in public. Just never happened. And I'm sure I wasn't taken to restaurants until I was able to sit at the table at home properly, either. And while I agree that parents should put a little more effort into parenting and should understand their children's limits, we cannot expect every restaurant patron to overnight become mature enough to in fact be parents, so businesses need to take it upon themselves to do the policing within their own walls instead. And any other business is fully within reason to exercise these rights, so why not restaurants as well? Well I hope that offers at least some semblance of an answer for you. And on a more horrifying note...... I got drunk for the first time when I was six. My brother, 2 years my senior, my sister, 1 year my senior, myself, my grandmother and my dad were in a restaurant on some sort of family trip. As all 3 of us kids were into eating just about anything and always delighted in these excursions, we'd usually watch what others were being served and then declare something to the effect of "oooh I want to have that!!! Dad would usually oblige, figuring he was broadening our culinary horizons, quite correctly of him. This particular occasion it was big fancy umbrella drink served inside carved-out pineapples, with brightly coloured fruit skewered onto plastic swizzle sticks. I distinctly remember how entertained I was that my beverage was considerably larger than my head. I also distinctly remember it tasted like coconut milk, which I hated, but found remarkably easy to drink nonetheless. I don't remember anything else, but I do recall the story being retold by my father and grandmother many many times with disgust, and the notion of my grandmther's that I could quite possibly have drowned after taking a full unconscious header into my soup bowl after passing out drunk. Yup, they served us kids the real deal, and I drank the whole thing, at six years old, before anyone at the table noticed what was in it. I guess it was the restaurant's way of "quieting the kiddies" in case we were to later become unruly. On a lighter note, regarding cellphones in movie theatres..... simply declare in a very LOUD voice that the entire audience can hear that the offender is to GET OFF THE PHONE NOW!!! I promise you, public humiliation still goes a long way these days, and your 5 second outburst and subsequent laughter is usually over far quicker than that phone call would've been, so don't think of yourself as being disruptive if you do it. You're actually shortening the duration of the disruption, and that is a public service. Works every time. Edited to say: I'm sorry this is so long. Also edited to say that although restaurants may be and should be inclusive of children, they should just simply keep the liability issue in mind as leverage if they find they have no other recourse. I still believe well behaved people of any age should be welcomed anywhere. Hope that clarifies.

Eau de vie is a clear liquor made from fruit juice. Kirsch would be an example.

Mine would have to be decorative jars of dried things like juniper berries...I haven't really got a clue what to do wth them. They were all purchased in the late 80's. ( I've also got a lot of really old tea.... used one teabag and didn't like it so just kept the rest, the idea being I might eventually use it all for special occasions or guests but they're not good enough for either. Edited to say: I've also got a big glass jug of opened maple syrup in my fridge that I've been carting around from apartment to apartment for years. I came across an old jar in someone else's fridge once that'd turned to vinegar and it made a really super vinaigrette......I'm still waiting for mine to turn to vinegar though. Wonder what I'm doing wrong?

I believe that the hunger pangs felt in your stomach are actually a chemical trick of your brain, trying to get you to give it the vitamins and minerals the brain and body systems need at the time. Since we absorb the majority of nutrients from our food so quickly (well before our stomach is finished disgesting, actually), coupled with the fact that people who eat poorly tend to be hungry more, snack more, and get into poor shape, whereas healthier eaters can eat smaller portions of healthier food less often and be satisfied, this seems to make a lot of sense. I don't think that's all of it though. A good part is psychological too. The fact that smells of cooking food, memories of events, extreme emotional situations, or merely the suggestion of going to eat a good meal can trigger hunger indicates we can be physiologically inclined to eat and store nutrients when the brain and body systems aren't actually in need of them. I guess we're just built to be eating machines, basically. Interesting topic.

That's 250g of cream cheese to how much IMBC?? ← Sorry....it's a standard buttercream....5 yolks, lb. of butter, etc. I've never measured the finished recipe to give a yield.

Yes, unfortunately you would lose the pattern during smothing. It's better to just lay the patterned fondant down and just give it a light press wherever the flat areas are, but it doesn't make for a perfect looking cake because of that, IMHO. Those rolling pins are very useful for small pieces, though.

To a regular IMBC or SMBC recipe I just whip in 250g cream cheese and it makes for a terrific icing. I like the tang of the cream cheese to be tamed by the butter in the recipe; nice flavour. I also add 1 Tbsp. almond extract but you could of course omit that. Don't worry about cream cheese being left at room temp...there's so much salt in the cheese it's actually foodsafe at room temp for a week or so. It would dry out before it went bad.

Hehehe.....if you got the turkey yesterday and you're making it next weekend it must be frozen..... frozen turkeys don't let go of as much liquid as the fresh ones do. But it'll still be good and you'll have a great turkey. I can't remember from the time I tried it with frozen exactly how much water was in the pan 1/2 way through but I do remember it seemed a lot less than all the times I've used a fresh turkey. But with the fresh ones, using one of those large roasting pans, you'll end up with turkey water 1/2 way through cooking coming nearly all the way up to the top of the pan, so the cavity is full of water too. That's how the stuffing ends up soaked, initially. But the turkey water does re-absorb back into the bird and it doesn't leave the stuffing soggy, either. Somehow it all just works. To stuff, be careful because the water is scalding hot and it'll splash back at you if you try to shove the stuffing in there too forcefully. I have 2 large flat wooden spoons I use to scoop the stuffing, then slide it down into the cavity, pressing gently to compact the stuffing as much as you can. It still takes me a good 15 or 20 minutes to stuff the bird this way because you have to go slow, but that's the only tricky part. I do also use the rack that came with the roasting pan.... it sits just barely above the pan bottom, but I don't think the height would make much of a difference. Any more ???s just hollar, and no you're not dense. My middle name is dense. My Thanksgiving for tomorrow got cancelled and I was supposed to do all this with my sister providing the bird, so I think I'll pick one up and make myself a turkey this weekend too. I already bought all the stuff for it.

Well, "enuf for gravy" is all relative, isn't it!? I say you can never have too much gravy. But it does leave enough liquid at the end, same as roasting a turkey the regular way, to make some. I make some components of my stuffing (see below) the day before, and make extra stock for gravy at the same time. And yes, you put it back in there as is. The stuffing gets completely soaked when you stuff the bird but there's still tons of turkey water left, so this must end up being re-absorbed by the bird, because where else would it go? Can't all evaporate. The stuffing wouldn't be able to absorb any more liquid, being that it got soaked. The bird does absorb any excess liquid right out of the stuffing too, so it's not like it's soggy or anything when the cooking's done. Hope that makes sense. ← Ok, but I warned you, it's fussy. I've never written it down before and it always varies slightly but here goes.... as you can tell I don't experiment too much with the spices on this one..... The day before I make several components for the stuffing plus the gravy stock..... you have to pre-order from the butcher the extra lb. or so of assorted turkey necks or wings, gizzards, hearts, kidneys, plus you'll need an extra lb. of turkey livers. (or chicken livers will actually do.) Even grocery stores cut up some of their birds for Thanksgiving so just ask them ahead of time to save you all the extra bits. The livers are for the pate for the stuffing, the gizzards, hearts and kidneys go in the stuffing, and all the extras like wings or necks are used to make the stock. Stock is for cooking the rice for the stuffing and for making extra gravy. You'll need: 1 lb. turkey necks, wings, gizzards, kidneys, hearts. (The last 3 are chopped and put in the stuffing.... I like about 1/2 of that part to be kidneys.) 1 lb. turkey or chicken livers 2 cups rice 1 large loaf sourdough bread 2 lbs. assorted mushrooms. A combination of oyster, portobello & reconstituted dried shittake mushrooms are nice, but plain white ones or creminis are good too. Chop in largish chunks. 1 medium vidalia onion or several large shallots, finely chopped garlic, as much as you can stand, finely chopped. ) 6 outside celery stalks, finely chopped, preferably including as many celery leaves as you can get. 1 small bunch parsley + 2 stalks (?) rosemary, needles removed from stems, finely chopped. pinch celery powder, several pinches ground sage. salt, pepper, butter, olive oil, sesame oil, oyster sauce, good quality soy sauce (please don't use chinese soy - ick! Cheap Japanese Kikkoman is fine) 1 bottle of red or white wine (both work well) ....some for the stuffing, some for gravy, some for roasting the turkey in the thread above.) Stuffing components: stock, rice, croutons, pate, sauteed mushrooms, sauteed meats, sauteed veggies & herbs. Stock: Roast extra turkey bits like wings etc. with onions, carrots, whatever you'd normally do until just cooked, then turn them into a saucepan with water and cook into a stock with salt, pepper, etc. Just a regular stock. Strain & reserve stock broth, discard cooked components. Rice: Cook 2 cups Jasmine rice (grains stay individual in the final stuffing) or a mixture of jasmine and long grain, or whatever you like, with some of the above stock + 2 or 3 Tbsp. butter, 3 or 4 Tbsp. oyster sauce, 1 Tbsp. good quality soy sauce, and 1 Tsp. sesame oil. Set aside. Croutons, pate, sauteed mushrooms, & sauteed meats can all be done in the same skillet and can be done the day before if you want..... the sauteed veggies & herbs should be done in a very large saucepan so you can just mix everything else into it when you're done. Croutons: Cut fresh sourdough bread into bite-sized cubes (to get about 8 - 10 cups) and sautee in a saucepan with butter, olive oil, salt, minced garlic, fresh parsley, etc. until just browned. Turn onto a cookie sheet and set in a 300 degree oven for about an hour until completely dried out into croutons. Pate: Sautee the lb. of turkey or chicken livers in a little olive oil with some salt, and about 1 Tbsp. soy sauce until just browned, then add 1 full cup of wine (use whatever you'll be using for the bird, and gravy if you put wine in yours) reduce heat to very low, cover & simmer for about 5 minutes. Set aside and let cool, then puree the entire mixture, including any liquid, and set this aside. It's just a very basic pate but it goes in the stuffing too. Mushrooms: Sautee 2 whole pounds of chunkily chopped mushrooms of your choice in just a dash of olive & sesame oils & a dash of salt, and sautee until they stop sweating and appear to be drying out. (about 10 minutes or so.) At the end, add about 2 Tbsp. soy sauce (again with the soy....I've got a theme going here) and sautee another minute or 2 so the sugar in the soy starts to carmelize in the pan. Remove from pan & set aside. They'll shrink as they cook so you want the pieces to be big in the first place so they're still detectable in the stuffing. Gizzards, hearts, kidneys: Chop these smallish and sautee in another dash of olive oil & salt, similar to the way you did the livers, until cooked through. I've never bothered adding more wine to this part but I suppose it wouldn't hurt. When finished, let cool then chop into very very tiny pieces, set aside. Veggies: In the large pot sautee the onions, garlic, celery, until just transluscent, add salt, pepper, & freshly chopped & dried herbs, cook for a minute or so then remove from heat. Add the rice, croutons, pate, little bitty chopped meats, & mushrooms & mix together. This is stuffing. ) There, I think that's everything. I hope I wrote it out properly....this is from memory,but I likely got the measurements right as I've done it this way for years. As you can see I don't get too daring flavour-wise on this; just basic spices. But the combo of the pate & the wine & the sourdough & heavy flavour of the mushrooms with the sharp celery and just a subtle hint of oyster sauce makes for a pretty tasty stuffing, I think. If anybody actually tries my stuffing I really would appreciate feedback on it. I wouldn't mind tinkering but I don't want to ruin a Christmas or Thanksgiving to do it, either. I'd love to try adding oysters but my family wouldn't eat it. Or more herbs and spices. I sure think it's good as is, but my family has a legacy of bad stuffings, so anything would be better than what we've unfortunately had to choke down in the past. Seriously, if you read this and it screamed out to you that there was something missing, I'd be all ears. But if you do try it & hate it, please do tell me. Perhaps I've been delusional with my cooking prowess all this time, and I rarely have an audience to guage honest reactions. But at least now everyone insists I make my stuffing every year.

OH YES! This works very well in a pinch, as does an 18" round cake pan. Here's an easy turkey you won't get frustrated with; some roommates & I discovered this trick quite by accident years ago on account of we didn't know what we were doing. (Although I'm sure this is the way turkeys were originally done.) No brining, no basting, squirts juice after the bird comes to room temp & cooks both white & dark meat to perfection. Problem is, I've tried it with pre-frozen turkeys a few times since (usually at my own sad little Thanksgiving parties for one - sniff!) and it doesn't work nearly as well as using a fresh turkey. Freezing & thawing must inhibit the meat's ability to release & re-absorb it's own juices, or somesuch. Anywho, wash the bird, put it in the pan, give it a rubdown with olive oil, rub kosher salt into the cavity & onto the body, and sprinkle at the very least all over with powdered sage. DON'T STUFF IT. (That comes later.) You can get very creative with the spices & all or maybe add some wine to the pan, but otherwise, you're done. But at least do salt & sage. (And wine. Lots. ) If you've got a roasting pan.....forget the lid. Stretch aluminum foil all around the pan & pinch the edges down to form a very tight seal. If you need to use 2 or 3 pieces strung together to cover it, make sure the seams are sealed as well, and cook it for 1/3 - 1/2 of its required cooking time this way. Make sure it's really tight & no steam can escape. Essentially, you'll be poaching the bird, rather than roasting it, for this first part. After 1/3 - 1/2 cooking time has elapsed you need to remove the bird from the oven & stuff it. This is the only tricky part. You definitely need a cookie sheet under there if you're using the disposable aluminum pans, because you'll now notice your pan is FULL of water, and you didn't put it in there. Mmmmm.... yummy turkey water. See? All that turkey juice would've been absorbed by your stuffing and made the bird dry. But stuffing it 1/2 way through cooking doesn't matter because the meat's been poaching. You need to get some long tongs or 2 big wooden spoons to gently push the stuffing slowly into the cavity. The water is scalding hot so be careful and go slowly so it doesn't splash back up at you. This still takes me about 20 minutes or so, and I've done it many times, so count on it taking you 30. Once stuffed, return the (not-so-tight-fitting-this-time) foil to the pan & return the pan to the oven, & continue to cook until done. Not-so-tight-fitting because you now want to be roasting instead of poaching. Remember though, all that time spent stuffing and the bird cooled down, so add an additional 20-30 minutes to the cooking time, because the time spent heating back up after it goes back in doesn't really count. Then, about 1/2 hour before it should be done, remove the foil (all the turkey juice has been re-absorbed now) and increase the heat by 25 degrees and it'll be nice & golden brown. There. Not nearly as gourmet as some other methods but you said you wanted easy. Press a fork down on the meat after it's all cooled and juice still squirts out. Like I said, this only works on fresh turkeys though. (Although frozen are still good, just not nearly as juicy.) I also have killer stuffing, but it's much much much fussier. Let me know if you want it. Edit: typos

Ummmm, make that OVERPRICED crap. Ok, I like the featherweight bags too. There are other brands like it though.....like Gossamer Wing...they're good. The other Wilton stuff I like is their plate/pillar systems....they're ok......but I think it's all too pricey. Pastry bags in particular. No matter who makes them, it just seems they are way too expensive. ← The OVERPRICED unfortunately comes from retail markup.....I order direct from Wilton wholesale in Canada and their prices are rather desirable....but most of their products like colours or whatever I've found better alternatives for. If I had to buy Wilton stuff retail I'd have a graceful coniption...... $1.20 wholesale for a 4-pillar+ plate setup versus $16 retail....HELL--LOOOOOO!!!!!! I doubt Wilton has any control over that......but alas, unfortunately the majority of their product available, wholesale or retail, is overpriced plastic CRAP. Can't disagree with you there. ..... But, can you elaborate on Gossamer Wing?? Never heard of......

DAMMIT!!! I'm actually in the process of upgrading my cable just so I can watch MS Apprentice. Doesn't look like it'll happen in time for this so I'm sure I'll have plenty of comments after watching the reruns..... in the spring. Having not watched any of it yet....here is the part that uber-bothers me: ARE. YOU. SERIOUS!?! To think that people with no experience can actually pull off a tiered wedding cake, for somebody's actual wedding!?! Good God, help us all!!!! I will have 100% total disrespect for The Martha should she choose to portray wedding cakes in this manner, like any 'ole schmoe can pull one off, lickety-split-like. Don't get me wrong, I like Le Martha; it's Le Marthaites i hate. Ms. Martha herself made herself a billion bucks repacking age-old chivalry to the common folk. Genius, I say! To the person who asked: Uhm....how much time have you got!? Their "Featherwight" bags are TO DIE FOR! The rest of their stuff......crap! And this is coming from a person who does cakes for a living. Somebody please DO keep me informed..... I can't watch the fiasco go down on me telly!

This is my standard cream cheese buttercream, done with both Italian and Swiss meringues. I use Philly... just whip 250g seperately then beat that into the buttercream. I then add 1 Tbsp. almond extract to accentuate the flavour of the cheese.

danlepard: Thanks very much for explaining all of that. It's very helpful to know. Wendy: The book is very advanced technques and designs but explaiined in a way that people with less experience (but not beginners) could actually do the cakes. It's always bugged me when instructions for things (all things, not just cakes) are rated beginner, intermediate, advanced, etc. because a lot of people can jump right to advanced if they've got a real interest and do well. I should probably not have used the professional vs. hobbyist analogy because it isn't really fair..... if you sell a cake I guess you're a professional even if you're just starting out. What I meant was, what I gather from most people I've met online who do cakes is that the majority are not trained pastry chefs (neither am I)....and being on their own trying to find good recipes I figured the more details the better. The lengthy instructions on the design pages, however, I'm not budging on!

Thanks everyone for the feedback; it's appreciated. Like I said above, the book is mainly focused on wedding cakes and how to execute the designs within the book. I will include any original recipes I've got, but I expect anyone purchasing the book (assuming anyone does) will do so for the cake designs and instructions rather than for the recipes. Still, I think it'd be a shame not to include them just because they're not the focus. Now, that's just it, I don't really know who the audience would be. Who buys these books? Is it home bakers who are hobbyists and practicing? The majority of people I've come across who make wedding cakes are not culinary trained professionals, so in that respect, of course they would benefit from detailed recipes. Do professional pastry chefs even buy design books? Somehow I doubt they do very often. If I use myself as an example, I started making wedding cakes when a relative asked me to make hers. I was already a foodie, so that helped not make the first one a disaster, but I'd never decorated anything prior to that. I bought Colette's Wedding Cakes ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/031...6/egulletcom-20 ) and went from there. So for many years I was the type of hobbyist buying these books. Now, it'd have to be a pretty special book for the designs to impress me. And those books, versus cake decorating books in general, are very few and far between, in my opinion. But I think because the general consensus in the responses here is that it'd help more than hurt, then I'll certainly go ahead & continue what I've been doing. If somebody doesn't want or need the info, they can skip over it. Why would that be? I can understand the production costs for a book with photographs on every page, but this seems pretty common with many of the recipe and design books I already own. I must be missing something? ~ Sugarella Edit: OAF! I goofed on the link. It works, but it's ugly.

The only thing I can add is that I've tried whipping egg whites that have been out of the shell and refridgerated and they just WILL NOT whip up. So, to this end, I think if your batter relies somewhat on eggs making the cake rise then I think you'd be sadly disappointed. ......

I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread! It's obviously true that there are too many variables in baking recipes as they are standardly written for everyone to yield the same results, especially since home bakers and professionals have ready access to differing qualities of ingredients. This is a bit off the topic of the thread but starting a new thread doesn't seem in order, to me, anyways. Correct me if I'm wrong. Let me start by saying I've been working on my own cake book for a while now, which will focus on design but will include recipes that I've developed myself over the years. (It's a looooooong way off though.) I tend to be very anal-retentive about explaining things, rather I explain EVERYTHING, and have been having trouble shortening my directions. They tend to be extremely long-winded and specify exact ingredients, (it has to be soy oil..... it cannot be canola oil... etc.) which up to this point I've been assuming would be confusing or too complicated to most readers, which is why I've been trying to shorten them. Or I may just come across as pretentious!? In addition, my recipes as I originally wrote them for the book don't look anything like other recipes printed anywhere. I CANNOT just write *cake flour*! I hate that about recipes! What kind of cake flour!?! %#@! So, to that end, let me quote a few of you..... I think you're all right. Too many variables. People weigh and measure differently, flour protein levels vary from country to country, not to mention method needs to be specified to produce exact results. I know, for example, some of my recipes use Canadian yellow sugar, readily available everywhere, yet this exact product is not even availabe in the US. Close, but not exact. So my question to all of you is, professionals and home bakers alike, would you actually prefer many more specifics being noted, as far as ingredients and what they are, or substitutions if those things specified are not available, or why one type of ingredient is being used versus another? Would you prefer methods being very thoroughly detailed, such as what sized pans were used and how they were prepared? And would you prefer step-by-step photos during the batter mixing process? Or would having so much text and detail accompanying a recipe make it appear more complicated and daunting than it really is and actually be a deterrent from trying it? I know some people will inevitably *tweak* a recipe the first time they try it, kind of like putting salt on your food before you taste it, but do you think chronicling my recipes in such a way might at least produce overall better results for a greater variety of bakers? Or would people just not bother with the recipes at all if presented in this way? Any opinions and feedback is appreciated. ...... And on a lighter note....... Welcome, s_atan, and I only mean this in good fun, but, How come Satan got a warm welcome and I didn't!?!

That's funny..... I call her "Martha Martha Martha" too! I vote that it won't be a Bridezilla. I vote that it'll be a really stupid cake design (like one with HARD CANDY glued all over it that people will break a tooth on) or something just plain ridiculously ugly and the bride will think it's fabulous. Or it'll be some wonderful design we've already seen before by some OTHER cake artist who won't get the design credit.

Thanks for the recipes everybody.....looks like I'd better go bake off a few!