chefzadi

Now that I think about it my MacDo comment seems to be directed at your statement about McDonald's in this thread, not my intent. I hear it in real life too. "You have McDonald's in France! (giggle, giggle). France is becoming increasingly industrialized with two income households. American movies and pop culture are popular especially with the younger generation. Just a few reasons why fast food and convenience items are increasingly popular. There's also big business, but that's a whole other topic.

the problem with replying as you go along, you miss stuff like this.anyway, see? i thought right! hehe... i look forward to what will be some really great stuff!!! ← I'm confused now. I think there's been a change in plan, Colameco is doing it. He has a Korean wife and all. Or maybe John Jones will do it, I hear he met a Korean once.

Yes, but that's Japanese though. And it's a commercial product. Turmeric isn't used in Korean homecooking. Not to nitpick or anything.

My pick would be Mike Colameco, and he already has a cooking/food education show on PBS. His wife is Korean and he's prepared authentic Korean dishes before on his program. http://www.colameco.com He's also a really nice guy and very down to earth. However, I don't think America is ready for a dedicated show about Korean cooking. Perhaps a miniseries on it of 3 or 4 episodes. I've already made my points about this on another thread (click). Be it as it may, that doesn't mean the eG Society isn't ready for it. We've been wanting to do a eGCI course on Korean food for a while, but nobody so far has stepped up to the plate to do it. So Farid, if your wife would be perfect for such a thing, perhaps she can be convinced to do this for us? The last time I asked her, she said YOU were the best candidate for the job. The two of you should put your money where your mouths are and propose a course outline to Janet Zimmerman (JAZ), Dean of the eGCI. ← Pursue your first pick. We did step up to plate, it's been delayed till Fall. We might be dead by then.

She knows alot.

I nominate my wife. She's sexier than Nigella (much thinner, but still curvy), can tae kwon do chop Martha, speaks more clearly than Julia Childs, can out smoke and drink Bourdain, she's a total smart ass but is passionate about food, only thing is she's shy.

I agree with you Carlsbad. On another note, the repeated mention of the 'success' of McDonalds in France makes me wonder if this is America's great culinary contribution to the world. Is it a point of pride that French people (not all of course) are eating at Chez MacDo? Makes you happy or what? Oooh, we passed on the basest form of processed food to the French and they ate it!

I'll post about the game plan later. I want to quickly add that it's a fanatastic buffet, catering, potluck menu. It's also great for Kosher or Halal menus.

This is quite normal. There may be a lot of chilli in the Vietnamese diet (though never as much as in Thailand), but usually not directly in the food. The chilli is most of the time presented on the side, as a sauce or as whole fresh peppers to break up and add to your plate at table. Dishes and soups are served without chillis. So it is inaccurate to speak of "spiced down" Vietnamese food just because the dishes contain no chillies. The spiced-down versions are only the ones where no side dishes of fresh or pickled chillies are provided. As far as Asian food is concerned, catering to Western tastes often means serving a less refined version of the cuisine. Wow. Where can we see that? ← So true what you say about Asian cuisine. Panda Express anyone? Couscous Royale in France. If that's not for tourists, don't know what else is. The LCB commercial will air nationaly in the States. Don't know the time slots yet.

Several in this thread have expressed that of all the 'ethnic' cuisines in France, Maghrebi cuisine is the best represented, so much so that it doesn't even seem ethnic anymore. The European and African sides of the Mediterranean have been in contact with eachother since the Romans. So the relationship is nothing new. I can prepare any number of Maghrebi dishes authentically, traditionally just like my maman, aunts and grandmothers and I really don't think most non-Maghrebis would be able to tell the origins of the dishes. I can prepare an ancient steamed lamb recipe that would look and taste like it was prepared sous vide. So if Moroccan in Paris is being toned down, if the restaurant is renamed Western Algerian cooking than it becomes wholly authentic, but from a different region of the Maghreb. It's not as simple as saying that Magrebi cuisine is becoming absorbed into French cuisine, because it's being adapted to the French palate. It's more that the diversity of Magrebi cuisine is becoming better represented. Most French are aware of this. I've mentioned before that Albert Camus was born in Algeria and did not want to leave his beloved country. Jacques Derrida was born in Algeria and campaigned for the rights of Algerian immigrants in France, Isabelle Adjani is half-Algerian and has been outspoken in the past about Algerian immigrant rights. There's Zidane who has talked about racism. I mention these things because this thread has overlapped into culture and patterns of immigration. The relationship between France and the Maghreb (and the Maghrebi diaspora) is deep. For a country that may seem to Americans to be a little 'insular' or socially conservative that's a pretty good list of famous French people who are 'allowed' to question dominant society. French culture is complex and layered, to try to understand it from an American or even Dutch view of pluralism will create more misunderstandings, as evidenced by many posts regarding French eating habits. Cutting edge modern day cultural anthropology indeed. Let's take the example of North African restaurants in France. Maghrebis and Pied noirs flooded into France after the end of colonialism. This is my parents generation. Most come to do hard labor jobs, many Maghrebis are illiterate. Not really the type of folks to open up alot of restaurants even if the French want them. The initial few are small, humble places. The second generation Magrhebis like myself. The North African restaurant scene in France is moving beyond the 'couscous joint' to cater to Maghrebis, not just the French. A quick google in French about this will provide lots of information. As for supply and demand and the French palate. Well it's already been determined that couscous is one of France's favorite foods. Also there are enough Magrhebis in France to support our own restaurants. So there is a demand for it. Why not more restaurants then? It is growing. But France is not a capitalist society. Immigrants to France don't come with the dream of opening their own business. A successful restaurant in France doesn't translate into a cash cow as readily as it does in the States. Also, opening a restaurant in certain neighborhoods is a very cumbersome process. The windows have to be a certain size, it has to fit into with the architectural history, etc... It can be very expensive. Contrast the North Africans with the Koreans who came to the States beginning the 70's armed with cash, overall a higher level of education and an entrepreneural to capitalis friendly Los Angeles. Boom in one generation the Koreans have a self-sustaining economy and infrastructure. And enough restaurants to rival cities in Korea. EDIT: I want to clarify that the rate of illiteracy was high with colonial Magrhebis, not with current Magrhebis in France or in the homeland. Also there was quite bit of literature written by literate Magrhebis during the time of colonialism.

I don't check the California forum much. Michael, you should have PMed me to let me you would be down my way. I didn't make it to New York as planned, mostly because I didn't want to travel without my wife and children. Let's arrange something.

You sound like a French chef. I don't think it's always accurate to judge 'authenticy' based on spicing. Not that you aggressively made that assertion. And it is not my intent to be contentious at all. I've already mentioned that absolutely authentic Algerian dishes often times lack spicing entirely. Korean Temple cooking is absent of garlic, an ingredient that is strongly associated with Korean food and Buddhist cooking is known for having lots of mild and delicate dishes. Traditional Korean Yangban and Royal court cooking is also know for being milder, with a range of dishes that are delicately flavored. Koreans have a range of soups that are clean, refreshing and here's that word again, "mild". I didn't try Vietnamese in Paris, but I have tried it in LA/OC where there is no shortage of Vietnamese restaurants, some say possibly the best outside of Vietnam, maybe better given the current economic situation in Vietnam. Alot of the dishes are very mild with no chilis. The natives oftentimes have highly refined versions of their own cuisines without having to create something new to cater to anyone else's tastes. Sometimes 'high' cuisine is temporarily lost through war, colonialism, economic challenges, etc... (as a side note to my fellow French. The featured French chef in Le Cordon Bleu North America informercial is none other than ME with my smiling Algerian mug. Are you proud of me? )

A couple of days with my family would probably cure that But anyway, in terms of Beirut nightlife -- I have to hand it to them, I don't think any other city comes close. There is that intense "stay out all night drinking" atmosphere that probably comes from all the kids who are out of sight of their parents for the first time (in a still somewhat conservative culture, both for muslims and christians), coupled with a deep sense of irony & black humor that comes from the fact that the building you are drinking in may well have contained dead bodies 20 years ago. I may be exaggerating a little, but basically the end result is a scene where people really seem to want to get away from everything and have a great time, so they are laid back and don't take themselves all that seriously, if that makes any sense. ← Yes it makes perfect sense. I'm especially enjoying reading in between the reports on food.

I will post later about the development of North African restaurants in France. Maybe it will provide some insight in 'ethnic' French dining and how it developed. Maybe Zeitoun can talk about Lebanese food in France and maybe compare it to what he sees in NY. Again, the patterns of immigration are very different in France then in the States and opening a business in France takes much longer. There are so many factors here. Playing cultural anthropologist by looking at restaurants and grocery stores will provide shallow insights into "French culture". EDIT: Cross post with Pierre, my post wasn't in response to his.

Yesterday evening we had the first of our Bastille Day celebrations with friends. They weren't French, although there was one Francophone in the house. I didn't jot down the names of the wines. We had some roses from the Rhone. Excellent on a summer day and with the menu. We moved onto Burdundy reds later. I tried some Oregon wines for the first time and was pretty impressed. We started off with two cheeses, a Spanish sheep's milk cheese and a California artisanal cheese. I didn't buy them and I don't recall what they are called. (I was too busy eating and drinking.) The host made Greek yoghurt dip, which he served with triangles of pita bread. I brought couscous and chicken with preserved lemons and olives. The chicken dish turned out to be an interesting and succesful combination of cooking techniques. We added some homemade tomato jam that we added to the sauce. I'll post a recipe later. Dessert was store bought ice cream a new flavor from Trader Joe's. Porto It was easy, fun and relaxing. The way getting together with friends should be. Next weekend we're having a picnic. Spicy Marinated Olives, Grilled Chicken with Tarragon Vinegar, Pan Bagnat, Smoked Salmon and Creme Fraiche Potato Salad, cheeses, bread chacuterie and Chocolate Cake For dinner A few simple things for guests to eat as they arrive, Olives, bread, maybe a relish made from the tomato jam. Salad Cote du Boeuf (maybe some grilled vegetables as a side) Cheese course Tarte Tatin That's it. French homecooking. Simple stuff.

You see that in the States, even in LA the 'gourmet' stores carry some sort of packaged, premade, frozen Mexican foods. Even in areas that have lots of really good mom and pop Mexican restaurants, there are any number of Mexican chain restaurants. You'll see Mexican chain restaurants in predominantly Hispanic neighbors full of local patrons. Anyway, I don't think that's what Parisians think good Mexican food is. It's an introduction. I don't know how far it will go. Not every country in the world will have good Mexican food or needs to.

I've been thinking about what Pierre said about the spicing of Moroccan cooking being toned down in Paris. He's correct. Moroccan cooking overall tends to use spices more consistently, meaing spices show up in most dishes. This style overlaps with Western Algeria. But this is not the cooking I grew up with. So the Magrhebi places in Paris were a bit assaultive to my tastes when I first tried. Now I've changed my mind and I always recommend people try in Paris. The Setif style I grew up with was mild and delicate. Hardly ever any cinnamon, especially in savory dishes. For a Magrhebi meal with lots of courses I prefer a mix of mild, spiced, hot, etc... Spiced dish after spiced dish overwhelms me. This isn't the French side of me speaking here either.

At the risk of going off topic I want to add that "French National Pride" is different from "American National Pride." These things are complex and neither can be understood by imposing one's understanding of one side. I'll add that you don't see French tourists going around expecting the world to be French or speak French. As for culinary pride. The French chef's culinary pride is different from the average non-chef French person's culinary (national) pride which really doesn't exist. EDIT: strange trying to explain one's culture(s) to others.

There have been several discussions in this forum about the points you bring up Steven. I've said some critical things about this before, I've also stated that France is changing fairly rapidly. An article abou Zinedine Zidane. Last year he was voted in a poll as "The most popular Frenchman of all time." He is a proud Algerian with family roots in the Kabylie and he is a self described "non-practicing muslim" (like a large number of muslims in France) and he is from "the hood" in Marseille. A very particular ghetto Anyway, there is more to ethnic France outside of Paris. Multiculturalism and pluralism exists in different ways in France. Again, Ptipois and I especially have fairly detailed discussions about this as well on eg. I'll look for the threads. Cultural/culinary comparisons are tangled discussions with lots of threads. (I apologize if the ZZ article is not on the topic of food enough, but it does address alot of point made in this topic, namely "ethnic" France. I couldn't find a better article that deals with many of the issues brought up in this thread.) EDIT: It also says alot about French pluralism that such a fairly recent and painful relationship with North Africa is being quickly absorbed into more positive things.

Vserna- I was hoping you would answer. As expected your answer is thorough and insightful. As you know the Spanish returned the 'favor' by conquering a few Algerian ports, most notably Oran. The city still has a Spanish flavor and I have wonderful memories of my time there.

In rather smallish pockets though, no? And mostly other "ethnic" European. Mexican being a bug exception, but then of course parts of The States were once Mexico. I don't think I'm disagreeing with you much, if at all. America is so big. There is Hawaii of course, but I don't want to get too off topic.

Not to get too off topic, but Steven did bring up New York. A topic of conversation that comes up again and again when I get together with French friends in LA is the lack of good French restaurants in LA. There is a large enough French population here to support many good French restaurants. Easy to market to through numerous organizations and dying for some real French food.

Couscous was voted France's food a few years ago. "Conquest by couscous" quipped a conservative politician. In Clifford Wright's The Mediterranean Feast he sites a French writer mentioning eating couscous in Toulouse (I think) a few hundred years ago. I can look up the exact date later if it's really important to anyone.

I know in Sicily couscous is still prepared and there is even an International festival. I'm invovled in a discussion about Brazilian cuzcuz elsewhere with a Brazilian woman who tells me that cuzcuz in Brazil is mainly consumed during the Junine Feast. She tells me that there are Portuguese, African and Italian recipes.

I agree with Ptipois for the most part, probably entirely. This is a repeat of what has been said in other threads. France has a stronger culinary tradition then America. Any number of threads here indicates this. Julia Child exploded onto the food scene in America with well, French food. As for 'ethnic' foods in America it's really in the last 30 years that all of this has been embraced with great gusto. Of course Italian-American and Chinese-American for example were popular long before. My wife recalls 30 years ago, alot of people in LA asking her what a Korean was? The French will soon be (if not already) be introduced to kimchi through a Le Cordon Bleu cookbook. We're not far behind the Americans in understanding other cuisines. For instance, French people know that Africans including North Africans don't just cook meat on a stick. Another repeat, In France there is restaurant food and home cooking. Two different things. Sure the North African at the tiny mom and pop shops is tasty, sometimes fantastic, but it is not representative. Who would know from eating at one the intricacies and complexities of Algerian cusine? Berber sustenance cooking, Arabic, Ottoman Turk, returing Moorish/Moriscos (Hispano-Arba), Sephardic Jewish, Italian, French influences. Just as it's not possible to understand French regional cooking by eating at a 'standard' bistro, it is impoosible to understand North African through restuarant food. I think Pierre said that the spicing for Moroccan in Paris is toned down. The Algerians complain about restaurant food in France and Algeria that the spicing tends to be strong, some say even vulgar and not representative of the nuances we have with spices, which sometimes we don't even use at all. It takes time, care and lots of eating to understand a cuisine or a culture. One must go inside as well and not judge by what you see in restaurants only.