chefzadi

Diva- I've said numerous times that I am African as well. Algerians consider themselves to Africans as well Arab/Berber, so do other Maghrebis. It wasn't untill I came to the States when I met a few saying that they were not African (yeah, whatever), some suddenly become 'Italian' or something. I am very aware of the negative connotations and unfortunately it comes from Black-Americans as well. Suzy brings up some interesting points about the naming game for Middle Eastern places. As far as cuisine is concerned though the common term is "Maghrebi cuisine" not North African anyway. Also, everything about my experiences in bigger cities is that there is even more interest in North African cuisine than French cuisine. For every one recreational class on French cooking I teach, I'm asked to do ten on North African.

perhaps i'm the only one who thinks this way, but to me Moroccan food has a strong resemblance to some North Indian cooking styles, but a little tweaked. Whenever I read a recipe for a "tagine" style dish I am struck by the resemblance of the spice list to North Indian masala-fied preparations. There are some key differences of course, but just to my ignorant eyes, nose, and mouth, there seem to be marked similarities. But much less fire. So, don't know if Chefzadi or others would agree but would you say "sort of like Indian but ... milder or more subtle or.." milagai ← Milagai, I can see why you would describe it that way. I've been learning about Indian cuisines from Episure and Gautam especially. All of us understand cuisine through own experiences. I used the think that Indian food was all heavily spiced and hot compared to Magrhebi cuisine, but that's not that's not true either based on the Indian homecooking I've had more recently. There are any number of Magrhebi dishes that you would be able to recognize as having an Indian counterpart. The spicing would be different, but that depends on the cook. Pilavs (Pilau in Indian?), flat breads (some are similar to Rotis, parathas), koftas, etc.. I think comparing Indian and Magrhebi cuisine/culture is an interesting discussion, one that I've had on other boards. But I doubt the vast majoirty of people from the outside would know enough about Indian and Magherbi cuisines to understand what we are talking about and probably get even more confused.

Exactly. And this applies to Maghrebi cuisine as well.

Provencal food is not exactly world's apart from it's neighboring region of Italy. As for Socca, guess what a version exists in the African side of the Med, don't about Italy (I'll ask Albiston). It's like going from Morocco to Western Algeria.

Let's change the title of the thread to Maghrebi cuisine. The comments here about "African" and "Middle Eastern" having negative connonations doesn't surprise me. I posted African on purpost. I can just as well go for Algerian and leave it at that, I've asked Zinadine Zidane to help me promote Algerian food. Isabelle Adjani is more beautiful than Betty Crocker and she has agreed to be the face of Algerian cuisine.

I don't have time to make an in depth post at the moment. I have another class to teach. I'll quickly add that understanding North African food is not rocket science. We can talk and talk about it. But when more knowledgeable diners, especially in urban areas see the food, most of it will be recognizable. As for the perception that North African is heavy and fatty, hmmm...I've only heard that one from people who've been to Morocco or read old Moroccan cookbooks. It's not like Americans have a clear idea of what Moroccan is anyway. I know I teach people how to cook Moroccan, Algerian and Tunisian. These people include other Magrhebis straight outta North Africa. It's not like all cuisines that are well known in America translate well into smaller towns, most probably don't. As for North African being more home cuisine than restaurant cuisine, a visit to France can provide an answer.

I'll get back to you on that later today. I'm asked the question in real life all the time. In the world of marketing a sound bite answer will propel awareness of the cuisine. Anyone familiar with Mediterranean cuisines will be able to instantly recognize aspects of North African, so possibly that is a good starting point.

I know you would watch my dear foodie. Yes, there is the question of marketing and more information on just the basics of cooking North African. Depending on the dishes, most ingredients are readily available even at regular markets. I've bought spices and chilis from Mexican and Indian vendors, sometimes those ingredients aren't necessary. A box of couscous or bulk couscous is probably pretty easy to find in most parts of America. The vegetables can be found in regular supermarkets, Italian and Middle Eastern grocers usually carry the harder to find vegetables. So the interest is there and the ingredients are for the most part readily available. I was reading about Paula Wolfert trying to find cilantro when she was writing her Moroccan cookbook. How things have changed! I think just a little nudging here and there is all that's needed. For my part I'm teaching some North African dishes to the next generation of American chefs.

Excellent points Therese and John. There is a place with belly dancers here in LA that's been open for a long, long tme (maybe 20 years) so there is a market for that. (Not one that I am at all interested in tapping into, if I haven't made that abundantly clear already. Heh.) I agree with you and those sentiments were also expressed in the Korean thread you refer to. Another 'break out' cuisine is Peruvian too.

I'd rather see the North African restaurant business in the States grow slowly, things are perking up in LA at least. There is certainly interest in home cooking, given the number of pakaged products that sell. At Sur La Table where I teach regularly they stock tagines, couscousieres, spices mixtures and harisa. And these items sell. It's an interesting case of strong awarenes on part of the home cook, at least in urban areas, and lack of REAL restaurants. It's exciting for me to see where this will all go.

I can see that in the smaller cities. There's a North African place that's been open for about 10 years in LA. It's a little place, it caters to North Africans and Arabs.

Those smaller, neighborhood places seem to be doing better. The more expensive, themed restaurants aren't even really North African. Those seem to require the bigger investments. There is an upscale one in LA that's been open for about 7 years and they've expanded. That's really good for fickle LA. In Europe they are doing much better, healthy business. There's a group of French-Algerians entrepreneurs and celebrities that are in the restaurant business, they have places in France and London. I don't know if North African restaurants are doing better or worse than other types of restaurants in America, where the failure of restaurants is pretty high. EDIT: Moroccan is not synomous with North African.

So what is your theory? ← Don't know if I have a theory, just some observations and thoughts. Certainly it's not like there is a flood of North African immigrants to America, but there are communities in the bigger cities. In Los Angeles, the NA community is composed of 2nd generation French North Africans like me, Pied Noirs and children of Pied Noirs, as well as immigrants straight out of North Africa. They are opening restaurants, but not necessarily North African ones. Don't know specifically why more aren't tapping into the market. It seems more are opening French or Mediterranean restaurants that cater to Americans. Then there are the North African places that try to add percieved sophistication and exoticism by putting a French accent on it. On a certain level I find it offensive like Le Colonial Vietnamese, it seems to be capitalizing on a Eurocentric fantasy of a glamorous colonial life. On another level, I am afterall French too and am part of the French community and the two cultures have mingled and there is in fact a natural by product that can be called North African French. Anyway, back to my point about the layers of North African immigrants to the States, it's not a cohesive group in certain ways, they are not all coming from the same place and the level of education varies. Many are here for professional jobs, so it's not like they are looking for a business opportunity in a new restaurant. So the demand is there, created by books, products, cooking segments, North Africans/Arabs, tourists to North Africa, a French community, etc... but not enough entrepreneurial spirit or money on the part of NA immigrants. I'm not very clear on all the reasons why. I have to think about this more.

LUCY! Yes, you said it so much better than I. I don't know about that particular situation, certainly the American can obtain French citizenship fairly quickly. It takes two years after marriage and not just residency. It might have to do with his lack of credit in France, but again I don't know enough about that situation. The bureaucratic obstacles for anyone opening a business can be tremendous. Safe guess, almost none. Probably the same for Bakersfield, California.

Is this recipe for alcuzcuz reported as being continguous from Moorish times? Or is it a more recent rediscovery?

Well, yes. France is small compared to the US, but it is diverse in many ways. Your in laws are not unique, but they are not representative, no more than the Parisian is. Which goes back to my earlier point, "so strange to explain one's culture to others." I lived and worked in Korea for a few years. Tiny country, lots of regional differences. I wouldn't presume to comment on Korean cuisine or what Korean people think about other cuisines based on visits to a few regions or by knowing even my wife's own family. Not that I think you suggested that about French people./

Overall I agree with you. North African seems to be an anomoly, though.

I don't think it's a lack of immigrants either in this case. This seems to be a case where supply does not meet demand. Boxed, instant couscous is available in almost all the Supermarkets in LA with the exception of Asian and Hispanic stores. Bulk couscous is a staple of health food stores, at least around here. The recreational cooking classes I teach on North African cooking are always sold out with a wait list. Clearly there is interest. Most have heard about it, tried some version of it (maybe those awful instant varieties prepared according to package instructions or couscous salads *yuck*) The little neighborhood places serve good, sometimes fantastic couscous and it is a slice of our way of life, but as I've said before they are not representative of the huge range of our cuisine. As for the 'themed restaurants", Omar your description is perfect. They are theatrics, not about food or culture.

It took about 3 hours with 36 students. It would take less time and man power with experienced cooks. Remember they are learning and there is time spent on explaining things. My wife and I could do the prep together in the same time. But we read eachother's minds and have a rhythm going, like a good kitchen line should. I usually piss her off though. Heh, heh. The game plan is all in the prep or mise en place. Alot of the recipes have the same ingredients. A list is made of the TOTAL ingredients, cuts and amounts.

So says my Los Angeleno wife. I like Mexican food, now. Can't say that I would miss it if I couldn't have it. I'm learning alot about different chilis from my Mexican/Central American students. We use chilis in North African, but not the huge range that Mexican cooking does. Rachel Lauden wrote a fascinating article about the Moorish influences (via the Spanish conquerors) in Mole. So sorry Lucy that you can't find great Mexican. In my part of town, well everywhere in LA we can get great mom and pop Mexican for often times less than $5.00 for a filling meal. We also have a range of regional cooking available, as well as some upscale places. Funny how alot of the upscale places have a caucasian Exec. Chef and a Hispanic Sous chef. *cough*

Recall, Francois Simon pondered how the English speakers got to the new hot restos so fast. We're simply crazier than they are. ← You know how much I appreciate your posts and your views on cuisine.

Do Koreans cook curry at all (like the Japanese do)? ← yes from commercial curry mixes. those blocks of curry like the Japanese. turmeric is found in a few processed, commercial products. but turmeric powder itself is not a part of the Korean pantry.

The Mexican food in France thread got me thinking about the lack of North African restaurants in States. I've been reading/hearing about this next big trend in America for about 6-7 years. When I have time I'll dredge up some 'reports' on it. I'd like some feedback from the members here. What are your 'theories'? Lack of North African immigrants? Lack of demand? Lack of knowledge?

Yes I understand that to be the case with many expats. Just like the lack of couscous places is void for alot of French in the States. I wonder why there aren't more couscous places in America? Is it the lack of North African immigrants or is it something else?

With this I agree. The Francophiles are oftentimes more French than the French themselves. There are more French chains than just Quick. Some of them are bistro chains. Also in France prepared foods can be easily purchased through the traiteur, etc... I'm not exactly sure what the point about Mexican food in France is. There are lots of countries that don't have good Mexican food. And there are parts of America that don't have good Mexican food. Is this a huge culinary void in France? Are French people depressed about the lack of good Mexican food in France? EDIT: I wonder what the reaction here would be if French people started analyzing Americans and making sweeping characterizations? Why is it okay to criticise 'perceived' French snobbery? Are there any French French (not Francophile) snobs here? Is my love of the finer (and humble country cooking) aspects of French cuisine snobbery? I don't like chains, some French people do. Let's find one to post adoringly about them.