phaelon56

Here's a current thread with some supplier commentary and also a link to an older thread that's chock full of info on various mail order bean suppliers (you won't find any info on Phaelon Coffee because it's not quite operational yet ) Espresso

Here's a good place to start your research Roasts: Buying It... In Search of Master Roasters

The espresso at Bouchon Bakery was just plain average at best - and I mean restaurant average - not good espresso bar average. I did have espresso in NYC this weekend that was excellent - as good as what I can produce at home. Several were at 9th Street Espresso (who has their own espresso blend but I'm not sure where they source it). The other shot, a double ristretto, was at Blue Spoon on Chambers Street. They're using Intelligentsia's Black Cat blend. I'd never tried Black Cat before but it was intriguing. I had a quick espresso and took a cup of drip coffee with me to drink on the street. Fifteen minutes later, halfway through the cup of drip coffee, I still had distinct flavor artifacts swirling on the back of my tongue from the Black Cat - truly amazing.

You've already received plenty of good advice. And yes - $250 - $350 is about how you have to spend on the grinder. A $200 - $300 espresso machine in a restaurant is a pointless endeavor. It will be slow, messy, produce subpar drinks, do a poor job of steaming milk and also wear out in 6 - 12 months (perhaps not but chances are good that it will). If you can't justify, afford or dedicate the time and resources to having a good fresh grinder and staff members trained to make decent espresso drinks (and they must have the TIME to do so even when the joint is jammin').... consider leasing a small one group commercial machine that is set up to use pods. Then find the asolute best quality and freshest pods you can get (there are better pods out there than the Illy brand). Use pods... keep track of sales and profit... run the numbers after one year and then consider buying a machine. You'll spend $2,000 - $2500 for a decent but basic one group commercial machine. And allow about $200 per year for routine parts and maintenance (2 hours per year of professional tech maintenance at $60 per hour plus an average of $80 per year for parts). A good commercial machine, properly maintained, will outlast most restaurants. And this past weekend I had an espresso at Thomas Keller's Bouchon Bakery in the Time-Warner Center at Colombus Circle in NYC. It was mediocre... and it was made with Illy pods. Even the best... so it seems.. just don't get it when it comes to quality espresso in restaurants. And I went to Chez Panisse Cafe in Berkeley for lunch on my 50th birthday a few months ago. The coffee sucked.

Very good new development. You can now buy excellent Vietnamese coffee on-line direct from Trung Nguyen Coffee If you've been drinking Cafe Sua Da made from Cafe du Monde or other US brands you will be amazed at the qualitative difference that a good Viet brand of coffee makes.

"Burr grinder" doesn't tell us enough. That category ranges from $30 POC (piece 'o cr*p) to more money than most espresso machines. Possibilities are multiple: 1) inadequate grinder or dull burrs on a good grinder - either one causes inconsistent particle size and contributes to poor extraction 2) Underdosing.... are you pulling double shots or singles? Some reference tell you that a single shot can be as much as 1.5 to 2 oz but a 2 oz single will generally be very anemic. If you can increase the amount of coffee in the basket with proper grinding and tamping you'll get better results 3) Old beans yield flat taste. Oiliness in the first few days after roasting usually indicates "tipping" (aka over-roasting). Oiliness that devlops and increases after that is a function of aging beans. When they hit a certian ageing point much of the flavor is diminished 4) Shot pull time... how long to pull a shot on your machine? If the pul time is much less than 23 - 25 seconds you may have underextraction. Any or all of the above could be at play but good fresh known roast date non-oily beans are IMHO the bets place to start. And if our local roaster can't provide it find one by mail-order who can do so.

No - did not make it. But I'm now dating a food savvy woman who lives in Ithaca and that might make a good weekend destination - thanks for reminding me! And if you pass through Ithaca be sure to check out Carriage House Cafe - a new place on Stewart Ave near Buffalo - just below the Cornell campus. Excellent food, simple menu with fair prices (reasonable considering the quality of the ingredients) and they serve world class espresso drinks - they really are that good. There's also an on-premises bakery that bakes the best baguette I've had in years.

Perhaps your colleague might consider saving on travel time and eating at a culinary school restaurant in Manhattan? It's not everyone's cup of tea but I've had a number of good meals at L'Ecole - the room in SoHo operated by the French Culinary Institute. Service was not highly polished but was attentive and adequate - and prices very fair.

I recall seeing them smushed with the back of a woooden spoon whiel they were in the demi-glace - before the cream was added. But whatever prepared form of green peppercorns they were using were fairly soft (I think these were the type that were purchased bottled in liquid and they lacked the crunch of dried green peppercorns - these were a bit denser than bottled capers but by no means hard).

The first time I ever tried steak au poivre it was done with a green peppercorn sauce and that style remains my favorite. I don't recall the specifics (it was done in a restaurant where I worked at the time but this was long ago. if I recall correctly they deglazed the pan with a demi-glace, reduced it quickly, threw in the peppercorns, mashed them slightly, tossed back in the steak and then flambeed with cognac for a moment before serving. I think. But I do recall how tasty it was!

A one-cupper mellita cone with some filters, a zip-loc of fresh roasted and freshly ground coffee, a mug and a "stinger" (aka immersion heater to heast one cup of water). I'm due to get a small hand cranked Zassenhaus grinder but there are supply problems with that item at present. Pre-round coffee is okay for a few days if it was really fresh and I ground it myself but when I travel for a week or longer it just doesn't cut it.

Indeed you can. And Sumatran, along with most other Indonesians, usually makes a pretty good single origin shot. I generally use an Indoenesian coffee as about 30% - 40% of my espresso blends.

Looks like what the cooking supply catalogs call a "perforated French bread pan." ← Look carefully at the pizza crust picture and you'll see similar marks on the bottom of the pizza. I also know that they use a very expensive type of traditional espresso machine (not a La Marzocco or Synesso which is what they should use) but the espresso and cappuccino is a bit on the flat and undistinguished side. In their defense it's actually no worse than many restaurants serve and better than some. They'd be better off with a good commercial superauto machine and really fresh locally roasted beans. But that ain't gonna happen.

Intrepid eGulleteer Daniel recently undertook a trip to the Olive Garden restaurant in in Times Square. His meal report (scroll to page 5 of the thread to see the actual review and pictures) indicates that the food ain't so great and is not exactly cheap. Times Square Olive Garden The price range I'm interested in discussing to is not places that are perhaps a trifle cheaper than Babbo or Lupa. I'm talking about a ravioli entree that's $10 - $12... salads that are $4 - $7... spaghetti and meatballs for $8 - $11... My NYC experience in this area is limited but I've always enjoyed my meals at the remarkably low priced Frutti di Mare So.... what are your nominations for best low to very moderately priced Italian restaurants in NYC?

Daniel - thanks for the report - and thanks for "taking one for the team". This comment prompts me to think that you refer to the people in prison who've been really bad - not just the garden variety general prison population

The citrus notes hint at that being new crop Ethiopian Yirgacheffe. It sounds as though he's found the right balance in the blend and perhaps a bean that keeps the citrusy notes under control. I've made some espresso blends with Yirgacheffe that will just about make you pucker up but I love that flavor note when it's not too astringent.

Wow. That's a prettty steep upcharge on some items. overhead costs in the types of high trafffic locations where chains are likely to be located in NYC is unquestionably a major factor. But that kind of pricing makes the value proposition for the casual diner, even a person who finds OG's food to be acceptable, to be less than compelling. I can think of at least a half dozen independent places in Syracuse that serve ravioli superior to OG in the $11 - $12 range - exactly what OG charges for that item here. But I can think of far more independent places than that in NYC where the same item is available for $12 - $13 - much less than the Manhattan OG. And the quality at these independents is superior - I know because I've eaten both on repeat occasions. It doesn't take a golden or highly acute palate to detect a difference.

Moderator's Note: Folks - let's keep this on topic. We've had to prune the thread to remove a large number of posts that are straying into a lot of superfluous discussion about why we talk about what we talk about, as opposed to the actual topic. The topic remains the Olive Garden in Times Square - other locations in Manhattan are also a reasonable area of discussion. If it's a general discussion of chain restaurants we have a great thread to join in on right here Chain Restaurants: The Thread For Outback-centric discussion we have also just the place Outback Steakhouse; this traveler's friend Thanks!

Due to political turmoil and economic challenges very little Haitian coffeee reaches the US (I suspect far less coffee is produced in Haiti than in the DR). But there is a supposedly "premium" variety that is sold at the airport in Port au Prince. My girlfriend's mom visits the US a couple times each year - I have already put in my request to have her bring me a bag next time she's coming up this way.

The Coffee Review (a widely respected authority on coffee charactistics and quality) has this to say about Dominican coffee Most places either use proprietary marketing names for the Dominican varieties they sell or just label it as Santo Domingo which tellls us little about its provenance other than it being of DR origin. Thus far there does not appear to be a "Gold Cup" or Cup of Excellence" type growers competition in the DR but hopefully that will come sooner than later. When growers are trained and incentivized to produce better coffees and given an opportunity to get them to market without having those superior beans mixed in with lesser quality beans through co-ops - everyone benefits. The major importers / brokers, including the one that my employer buys from for our commercial roasting operation, do not generally stock Caribbbean coffees with the exception of having Jamaican Blue Mountain when it's in season. Green Castle Coffee Roasters in central PA is the only place I'm personally familiar with that has some truly rare coffees you'll find in few other places in the US. This includes coffee from Nepal, China, Laos and yes... even some Dominican Barahona. I visited their store when passing through that area. The array of coffees available is dizzying. My concern, possibly unwarranted, is how any roaster can stock that many coffee already roasted and be assured of selling them within a few days of roasting date. I purchased a pound of roasted Laotian beans and was overly impressed. It's the first time I ever tasted that particular bean - but it did seem a bit flat to me and that's often a characteristic of beans that are a bit past their optimal usage window. Just curious - have you tried Haitian coffee? I'm just in the process of learning about that culture and food as I have a new friend who is Haitian. She described to me the preparation process used in rural areas - which is very much as it's done in Ethiopia. The green beans are roasted in an open pan until very dark and then ground in a morotar and pestle before beeing steeped, filtered and served. Raw sugar is often added to the pan before the beans are completely roasted. They usually cook the beans until they're nearly scorched - just about black. I'm guessing that the sugar serves as a counterpoint to the bitterness produced by such a dark roast.

John Hornall, well known barista and former co-owner of Hines Public Market Coffee in Seattle, has moved east and now runs the coffeee and espresso operation for Chestnut Hill Cafe Have you been there, tried it and can report on your experience? Hines was a legendary Seattle institution but lost its lease when the building they were housed in was demolished in the name of "progress". They have a street cart open and are working on a new space but John Hornall has landed in Philadelphia (score one for the east coast!). Reports will be appreciated.

Food that's better than sex? I don't think so. Not for me at least. And I love food.

Ken - The Cona is a vacuum pot and the Brikka is a moka aka "stovetop espresso" maker. They are beasts of a different color and the output is radically different. Moka pots in essence are a way to produce an espresso like beverage without a real espresso machine. As I understand it, in Italy, when one refers to espresso in the context of drinkign it at home it is assumed one is referring to moka coffee. When the context is drinking it outside the home it is assumed that the beverage is made on an espresso machine. Ideally they produce a rich, dark conecentrated coffee that is much closer to espresso than to coffee. As evidenced by this thread it does take time and practice to adapt one's techniques to machines larger or different than the one on which you've developed your process. Your wife will most likely appreciate an Americano style beverage - moka coffee diluted with hot water. As for the bitterness people are reporting in some cases - I suspect an adjustment of the heat level (up or down), a change in grind or even a change of espresso blend may help. many places int he US sell "espresso blend" that is dark and oily - overroasted and therefore inherently more bitter than lighter roasted coffee. Open a can of Illy or Lavazza that's fresh and you won't find it to be cark, charred or oily. But I suggest trying a competent local roaster tha offers fresh beans within a few days of roast date. The grind should be close to espresso grind in terms of being fairly fine - not coarse. But an excessively fine grind can lead to a bit of excess bitterness due to overextraction.

I recently tried Niman Ranch bacon for the first time when having breakfast at Carriage House Cafe in Ithaca NY. IN general the food there is outstanding and the espresso drinks even better. The bacon was fine but nothing special - it didn't seem much different or better than some grocery store brands I've tried (and not as good as a few of them). But when I had a Niman Ranch pork item as a restaurant entree it was fantastic. But is it possiblethat because American style bacon is inherently fattier than many other pork products and also because of the smoking... perhaps the advantage of the higher quality pork Niman uses just isn't an advantage with this type of product?

I can't comment specifically on the foodo in the Manhattan Olive Garden but having eaten in OG in both Charlotte NC and Syracuse NY on repeat occasions I have had consistently good experiences with the service. With only one exception it was always at or above average and on a few occasison was exceptional. I would guess that the server training program and subsequent supervision by management is very thorough in a place like OG. But I'll be curious, if Daniel goes to the NYC branch, to learn whether his experience bears this out there as well. Starbucks, a chain known for a strong service focus, has in my experience been very lackluster in this department in many of its Manhattan locations.