magnolia

Fat-Guy - following on from my posts to the parallel discussion on the London board... I've exerted more time & effort to finding good bread in five years in London than I did for 25+ years in New York... that is to say, it barely takes any time or effort to find it in New York, and I am constantly searching for it - usually with disappointing results - in London. I want to believe... Where on earth are you getting your 'better' bread in London ?

As a corollary to Rail Paul's question - to what extent do you think a restaurant critic needs to be a cook - i.e. are critics 'born' or 'made'? How much does it matter if a restaurant reviewer is someone who eats out seven days a week, or stays in six days a week learning/practicing the kinds of dishes he/she is likely to be critiquing?

I am pretty sure it comes from a bakery that's owned/operated by POilane exclusively for themselves... it may not be in the shop in Victoria...I think they sell Poilane at Selfridges too. But it all tastes exactly the same, and Poilane's modus operandi and reputation depend on total control over ingredients & process, to the extent that I believe they import various ingredients from France because they are no acceptable equivalents here.

The bread's about the same price as it is in France, but - and I'm just going to say this and not get into the bread discussion again !!! - at least in France there's lots of good bread at far less. In London sadly, in general, the bread is terrible. Sad that it has to come down to charging £10 for a good loaf. If sourdough's your thing, Poilane bread lasts and lasts. It doesn't get mouldy and it doesn't get stale.

I have the very sad deli counters at Waitrose and Sainsbury's on Finchley Road, where I'll be darned if the prosciutto or serrano are the real mccoy, and the people don't really know their stuff. I'm sure they'll be expanding to other locations as well. Sigh.

Until now, I had no knowledge of cuisine à l'eau but I ate chez Loiseau about this time last year. It was outstanding in so many ways (including the cost, but that was down to the wine). I posted my experience on this board but I've no idea how to find the thread. At that time it wasn't difficult to make a reservation - we made one with only a few days' notice - but there were no empty tables. I would go back in a second if I had the opportunity.

Now I'm in salivatory mode...it's all coming back to me like a sweet memory. Try to find some of the northern Rhônes - Yves Cuilleron's 'les ayguets' (see www.cuilleron.com) and Pierre Gaillard's Fleur d'Automne...these are very thick, gloopy wines reminiscent of Sauternes - slightly lighter with good acidity - and definitely a splurge, at between 25-35 for 50 cl.

I haven't read previous threads on this so forgive me if I'm repeating someone else's suggestions - to add to the Italians, Maculan makes three sweet wines - the first two are affordable and not so hard to find - Dindarello about 10 quid a half bottle, and Torcolato at about 14. The best, however, which is only made in good years, is the Acini Nobili - nearly impossible to get and about 30 if you can. But outstanding, worth the effort- like liquid toffee but not cloying. If you see it on a restaurant menu, try it ! I am a sucker for almost anything Bonny Doon does, Vin de Glacière is no exception. And there seems to be a lot more of it on UK restaurant menus than in the US (though it's not so easy to find in shops) Steve Klc - I've heard of Navarro, but not Chappellet. Do tell? I'll be in NY next month and would love to try something new. Also I was under the impression that Rutherglen used a solera system, so non-vintage - you mentioned a '96. Am I missing something?

As Mogsob said, it's a 2/3 size bottle. But that price is not bad - it retails for about £30 I believe. Gavin what style sweet wines do you like? I can probably make some recommendations that will knock your socks off - but it's a bit off topic for this thread. We can take it to the wine board, or if you are at Dim Sum on August 31, we can chat then...? Let me know.

I am so glad you liked it ! If I had to choose...it's my favourite restaurant in London. I treat it like my local. There are so many good points about it. Last Friday I had two huge, yummy sardines (pan-fried?) for starter & steak bearnaise as a main, Alvaro Palacios Dofi and Maury Solera 1928 to drink. I'm back there tomorrow night to say goodbye to one of the employees who's leaving.

Would those little figurines in the Epiphany cakes be considered Santons? I have yet to be roi for a day...

Thanks to everyone for this, I never even made it beyond the peripherique but I've copied this thread and will keep it for next time.

What are santons? I can't find this in my dictionary.

NB!! If you're going in mid-to-end of September, which it looks like you are, wine regions such as Burgundy (and probably Bordeaux) will be in the full swing of harvest. This is a *really* busy time of year for them and as Bux has mentioned, most are just not set up for casual tourists/travelers/curious observers. While someone at each winery probably will be answering phones, you should do some research before showing up, because it's unlikely anyone will be able to spend quality time with you. That said - I certainly don't want to discourage you - call the tourist agencies in Bordeaux and Beaune, they may be able to advise about specialist vineyard tours or wine industry guides who can take you around and arrange for tastings etc. and if the weather's good and cool, it should be spectacularly beautiful. Have a great time !

Thanks to all for the suggestions about where to go as a 'day trip from Paris'. As it turns out, due to pet-sitting responsibilities and work schedule, I didn't have a chance to venture out after all. But we had a fantastic time. I’ve only been to Paris in August for a couple of days at a time in the past, never for a week. I was under the impression that ‘anyone who’s anyone’ heads out of the city, and was in a bit of a food panic. What would I eat? Where would I eat? Surely I would starve ! It's true, most things are closed. The markets were there but ‘thinned out’. Most restaurants and food shops (indeed all other kinds of shops too, clothing, cleaners, salons) that are not located in the centre or around the major hotels, were shuttered. But the weather was fantastic and we had Paris almost completely to ourselves – no traffic, few pedestrians once we left the main drags. And where something was open – museums, grands magasins – including La Grande Epicerie and Galerie Lafayette Gourmet – the crowds were minor, and expressed the same smug, secretly ‘knowing’ glances that New Yorkers who remain in the City in August do, as if to say ‘what’s the fuss about getting out of here? There’s more for us’. As for food, all I can say is a little research and flexibility goes a long way. I used my 2002 Pudlo and had a list of places that were meant to be open. However, not all of them stuck to the printed vacation schedule, as guidebooks are written far in advance of their publication date, the information even in the most trustworthy ones is a) subject to change and b) sometimes more than a year and half old by the time it’s printed c) just plain wrong – so best to call in advance to find out the vacation schedule. For example, mine indicated that La Cave à L’Os à Moelle (L’Os à Moelle-“lite”) would be open, but that L’Os à Moelle would be closed for August – this didn’t really make sense at it’s owned/operated by the same people, and indeed, both were closed at least for the week I was there. When we weren’t picnicking or making a meal out of ice cream (Newsflash: Berthillon may be closed but it’s not the only game in town!), we went to the following restaurants, I’d readily return to all except possibly Bistrot de Champêtre, as they each surprised us in some way. Monday dinner Bistro Champêtre (rue Saint-Charles, 15th) – if this were a gastropub in London (indeed, it looks like an about-to-be-renovated 70’s pub) it would be packed every night and held up as a model of what London needs more of (except of course for the prices, they’d be pretty painful for pub grub). However, for Paris it was a bit disappointing – I guess after all these years I am eternally optimistic that almost every place I eat will have something to recommend it - in this case, the service was good, the portions, large. But the food was bland and boring. I wrote down what we ate, otherwise I would not remember… magret de canard (distinguishable by its size); a lamb dish about which we can recall nothing else; and a Baba au Rhum which was too sweet (the rum should speak for itself). Tuesday lunch Swann et Vincent – a pretty Italian restaurant near the Viaduct in the 12th, on rue Saint-Nicolas – with its tile floors and high ceilings, is cool and welcoming on a hot day, Food is fresh, simple and home-made. We had a plate of fried sardines, and one of just-wilted spinach with shavings of parmesan, followed by gnochetti” with pesto and tagliatelle carbonara, and a half carafe of Chianti. A perfect lunch – if you can follow with a snooze ! And I think there are one or two other Swann et Vincents around. Wednesday dinner We hit pay dirt. The day before, we had been searching for an open bakery, and we passed a restaurant whose name, Stéphane Martin, I recognised from my guide. It was being renovated which surprised me because the book said it had just been renovated. I asked if it was changing hands and in fact one of the people doing renovations was the chef/owner, and he said definitely not – and that it would be open the next day (turns out it had been renovated last two years prior, and the info in the 2002 guide was therefore a bit out of date). Although I thought it was highly unlikely that it would be ready (it really looked like a construction site) I called for a dinner reservation. When we arrived, it didn’t even smell like paint. It’s a small restaurant, maybe 25 covers divided between two rooms. Only two of the other tables were occupied. There was a set menu of three courses for €29 (plus an extremely fair £3.50 supplement for a couple of things), and each course offered three or four choices. For starters, E. had langoustine ravioli in an oil and basil sauce, and I chose marinated sardines. Both were delicious but the ravioli were exquisite. We were also offered a couple of amuse-gueules, home-made cheese sticks and some stuffed olives. For the main dish, I wanted to try a signature dish, a braised jarret of porc with spiced honey, but it was for two and he wasn’t game. So I had the had a “moelleux de homard” and he had a “rable de lapin” (saddle). I didn’t regret my choice – the moelleux was amazing, a reduction of the lobster mixed into creamy mashed potatoes, with large chunks of lobster. The head of the lobster was positioned at the side of the plate like the ornamental carved stern of a dragon boat. I’d say this was the best main dish of the week. I am not a rabbit fan, and E. declared it ‘perfect’ – it was wrapped in bacon. But he certainly paid a lot of attention to my moelleux ! All was washed down by a half-bottle of 2000 Pouilly Fumé. For dessert, I had a tarte aux mirabelles – those little yellow plums I have only ever seen in France in August – and he had a banana sliced roasted and served in its skin, with a sauce caramel and pine nuts. Post-dessert amuses included truffles; sesame brittle; and tiny cannelles.. This was top-notch cooking at bargain-basement prices – the entire meal came to around than €85, including water, wine and service, and served in calm, relaxing and friendly surroundings. Thursday dinner I had heard that the ‘les Bouchons’ chain of bistros – there are about six ? of them - stayed open in August, and that the wine list was interesting. We chose the one nearest us, Les P’tits Bouchons on Blvd Montparnasse, and went for dinner the next day. If it hadn’t been August, I wouldn’t have chosen to sit outside on this busy avenue. But it was really quiet. As a starter, I had tuna marinated with bean sprouts and dry noodles in a gingery-soy sauce, which was great, and E. had a cold cucumber soup with scoops of melon with tomato/basil sorbet. I’d say this was the starter of the trip. For my main, I chose confit de canard, which was huge, rich and unctuous – though I guess not really a summer dish (though casting an eye over what I ate, nothing was very summery !) and he had veal with gnocchi and mushrooms – I’m not a veal fan but he said it was good. The other star of the meal (and of the week) was my dessert, a moelleux of chocolat (I guess moelleux was a theme), the perfect just-solid outside with melted chocolate inside, served with pain d’épice ice cream (a cross between gingerbread and spice cake). E ordered a ‘vacherin with raspberry coulis’ which we expected to be some intriguing preparation using vacherin cheese. As it was, there was not a hint of cheese in any of it – it was more like a Pavlova, with meringue bits layered with raspberry. But by then, after a bottle of Condrieu Jean-Luc Colombo 2001, we were too sated and happy to bother to ask ‘where’s the Vache’. Friday dinner I had been hearing non-stop from E. about how he coveted my moelleux de homard, so we called Stéphane Martin to find out a) if they had any tables left for that evening and b) if moelleux was still on the menu. Yes to both, so we returned. The heat had taken the edge off our hunger, so we ordered à la carte this time, but from the same menu. We skipped the starters, and E had the moelleux de homard, and I had a fabulous pavé de foie gras - a very large portion of pan-fried foie served with match stick potatoes and peppery leaves – not arugula but similar. The waiter recommended an excellent Wolfberger Rangen Tokay Pinot Gris 1997, on the menu for €50, and I’m told normally costs at least 1/3 more in shops. Same amuses as on the previous visit, and even one other familiar group of diners (this time the restaurant was half full. So much for eating light - for dessert, we shared a plate of cheese and a refreshing apple tart and went away happy once again. Not sure what it will be like when the neighbors come back from holiday – but I’m looking forward to going back next chance I have. Saturday dinner: This was our last night, and I decided to do something completely out of character: i.e. picking a restaurant based on location, location, location. I booked Le Ciel de Paris, on the 56th floor of the Tour Montparnasse, which I thought would be like eating at a latterday Tavern on the Green – i.e. beautiful setting, unbeatable view, food is beside the point. In my albeit limited experience, of the handful of restaurants-with-a-view in which I’ve eaten, only Windows on the World (RIP) succeeded in evolving into a place where you’d go for the food, and it took them a long, long time. But a restaurant critic I’d met earlier that week told me Ciel had a new chef who was doing interesting things. And really, how bad could it be? I figured the worst that could happen was that it would be a colossal rip-off, not the worst thing in the world. It turned out to be magical. Another hot but clear night, and Ciel of course is airconditioned. We were led to a table by the window (we were told this could not be reserved, so we were just lucky) where we had a bird’s view of all the major sights: Eiffel Tower, Arc de Triomphe, Place de la Concorde, Arche de la Defense – all sparkling below. It was difficult to tear myself away long enough to look at the menu which had an extensive menu plus a prix-fixe option with many choices. Again, being too hot to go ‘whole hog’, we shared a large starter of bonito tartare. Then E. had a saddle of lamb, and I had a succulent braised oxtail stuffed with foie gras. We shared a baba au Grand Marnier for dessert, and a bottle of Nuits St Georges Louis Jadot 1998 which E declared ‘well-priced for this kind of restaurant’, although it more than doubled the cost of the meal. Every table in the restaurant was taken but the table was ours for the evening, and we took our time. Great people watching: the crowd was a mixture of tourists (Spanish, American, Japanese) dressed in everything from shorts and t-shirts to evening-wear, and French families celebrating birthdays (Happy Birthday was played on the piano-bar several time – yes, it’s a piano which has been custom-extended to double as a bar – how much more kitsch can you get?) Although the meal was wonderful and romantic, it was by far the most expensive of the trip and a perfect ending. I might go back for breakfast though, as it’s open from very early and I’ll bet it has a totally different buzz during the day. Paris sans Berthillon I’ve only been to Paris in August for a couple of days at a time before, not long enough to lament the closure of Berthillon at what would seem the most inopportune time (from a visitor’s point of view, anyway!) But I hardly noticed, after finding Gelati Alberti on Rue Mouffetard. A tiny place that resembles a kiosk more than a shop (there’s only uncomfortable seating for five or six), it’s clear Alberti has put all its effort into the flavours and presentation of the ice creams/sorbets. The large range of flavors includes nothing more unusual than lemon meringue and green tea, but the quality is very high and if you order a cone, the scoops are carved into roses. Down the hill, also on Rue Mouffetard is another ice cream place - Octave, which I cannot recommend – not because the ice cream isn’t good (it is) - but because I got into one of those typical fights with the manager that only seem to happen in Paris. We sat down at one of the out-door tables, after having ordered cones from the counter - because we had ordered food to be taken away. It was 30 degrees C and I said we’d be more than happy to leave if a paying customer came along (the street, and shop, were as empty as a Sergio Leone film street, all that was missing was the tumbleweed and twangy music). But he insisted that if an inspector came by, he could get fined for allowing us to sit there. Not only have I never seen a restaurant inspector in Paris, but I doubted the chances of one making an appearance in the middle of August when most places were shut. Whatever. Those who love ice cream will go to Alberti!

If L'Ambroisie is a must for you, then get the hotel to reserve, but keep after them. L'Ambroisie says their policy is to take reservations only a month ahead to the day, but last year when I called exactly a month ahead (after having verified the policy) they said they had already started taking bookings a few days earlier for the day I wanted, so the policy is rather arbitrary... (I had a French person call and he had the same experience). He then made a fuss and talked them into putting us on a waiting list - from which we eventually got a reservation - but this is the only restaurant in France where I've ever had such an experience, and I wouldn't have bothered after my first call, except I'd had such a wonderful meal there many years before, and this time, I was going with a bunch of people who *really* wanted to go. I think I posted about this last year - the food was spectacular, faultless in fact - but the atmosphere cold and stiff. BYO fun. PS I'd highly recommend La Regalade - much discussed on this board - a really fun, lively place specialising in Southwestern cuisine - which should be doing amazing things with game about that time of year. And if you and your dad are not impervious to the charm of Paris from high above the rooftops, I suggest Le Ciel de Paris - see other post for description (Paris in August).

Speaking of Rue de Beaune, I used to stay in an apartment on the second block away from the Seine. There was an outstanding bakery there that made ice cream creations - huge fruit shapes that were faithful to the fruit they represented, down to the stone in the middle - for example, if you got a peach, it would be peach flavored ice cream in all different peachy colours, the inside the same colour as the inside of a peach, and way inside, almond flavoured ice cream the colour and shape of a peach pit. Same with apples and melons, which had a green "rind" and a melon coloured inside with tiny 'seeds'. Outrageous. But last time I was there, the shop was gone. Anyone know where these can be bought? They never fail to impress dinner hosts ! Back on the subject of Robuchon, the Le Figaro guy told me that Robuchon is restless and needs to be in the thick of things so he will probably be very involved, not just lending his name.

Thanks for reminding me of Legrand - for some reason I always forget to stop by there even though it's really nice. They hold classes/seminars there I believe. My all time fave is still Augé although it is more for high end wines, and the collection is very idiosyncratic. La Grande Epicerie has a terrific wine department too though not as 'romantic' as shopping in a dedicated cave...

Zabars's bread is far better that of its closest equivalent in London - "Boo-bird". So n'yeah ! Anyway, what's wrong with the bread at Gramercy !? If it's really that bad - definitely say something and they *will* take you seriously. FACT Oh, I forgot the 14th Street greenmarket and City Bakery.

Good - maybe this will enable us to actually patronise Flâneur and not gawp at its prices, speculate on how it makes its rent payments, and wonder if its a money-laundering operation ! Simon - I was actually thinking of the bread in France, which is so close to UK geographically, yet so far gastronomically (I know, I know, we differ on this point!). But to your point about the bread in New York - restaurant bread in New York is by and large WAY better than it is in London - and you don't have to go searching for it. You are lucky to live in a part of London - possibly the only part ! - where proprietors actually care what they sell to people. In my opinion, most London restaurants serve bread because they think they have to, I'd rather have no bread than bread that looks, smells and tastes like styrofoam. As far as supermarkets go... I haven't been to Safeway...and Waitrose is OK for baguettes and the Sally Clarks breads. But Sainsbury's bread is horrible, tasteless and soggy. And in general, London does not have anything like the quantity of places to get bread that's at least decent - that New York does. An unscientific list off the top of my head: Columbus Bakery (both east and west side); outrageously priced Grace's Marketplace and Eli's as well as Zabars and all of its offspring Vinegar Factories, Vinaigrette factory - whatever they're called... ; the newish place under the 59th Street Bridge; Agata and Valentina; Dean & Deluca; Citarella east and west; even the more humble D'Agostinos and the unfortunately-named Hot & Crusty...

This is indeed sad news, particularly given that the state of bread in London is deplorable and embarrassingly bad to begin with, to lose a good one is a blow. But I fear you falling for the deplorable and futile British habit of grumbling minus action = perpetual miscontent. Take your fears straight to the source, tell the guy with the ponytail or the ginger-haired woman behind the bakery counter how much you LOVE St John's sourdough and ask if there's anything that you (and other customers) can do to make a case for keeping it! Surely if enough customers complain they'll keep it on. I've always found St John to be very customer service oriented, down to the time a few years ago when I couldn't face the pressure of making my own sweet shortbread pie crust and they did one for me in my own pie dish. If that doesn't work, go to Poilane or Paul, both make great sourdough - the one I bought from Poilane lasted almost 10 days without getting stale.

Near your hotel: La Galette - cheap and cheerful and good for crèpes and cider, a little taste of faux France...Also has anyone mentioned Maison Blanc or Paul - both head and shoulders above Pâtisserie Valerie for baked goods and pâtisserie.

Ooops... I'm nothing if not geographically challenged...

Just spent a great weekend in what I would call "the country" - er, Sussex (it's all your frame of reference. folks), one of the highlights was my stay at Hotel du Vin/Bistro in Tunbridge Wells. Accommodation was just OK but we booked very late and probably got one of the loser rooms that every hotel seems to have. The restaurant serves what I'd call "sophisticated bistro food" (I realise this is an opportunity for our old friend the oxymoron) in that it's a bit more refined and soigné, but only just. The portions are generous and the prices compared with London, extremely fair. For example, we had a petit salé that puts that of my beloved La Trouvaille to shame: twice as big, juicy with just enough fat, with cracklings...at something like 2/3 the price or less. Also a wonderful duck confit with salsa verde, over lentils with tiny bits of sausage, served in a cast iron skillet. The wine-by-bottle list was also fine (well, that's what they are famous for) good and well priced though the handful of options by the glass were suprisingly disappointing. We also went to a very nice neighbourhoody place called Thackeray's. It consists of several rooms, some of which are for dining, some are bar. An imaginative menu but one that doesn't try too hard...duck confit canneloni starter was the standout dish for me, followed by main of pork pot roast, then starter of juicy scallops. E. had calves liver which is not my thing but he liked it. Prices were also relatively gentle. So basically, if we lived there and didn't have to count in cost of transportation or accommodation, we would have saved ££ in comparison to a what we would have spent at like-styled restaurants - and come out ahead on quality and quantity.

Now it makes sense to me why the coffee in Vietnam is so good, they must use chicory - either they got the habit from the French or vice versa. I always try to bring back Suchard dark chocolate cubes, which used to be widely available, and sold individually, at news kiosks, Felix Potin (RIP) etc. but now only seem to be available in packs of three, in the candy sections of a handful of shops like La Grand Epicerie (For me that's as silly as having to go to Bloomingdales for a Hershey bar ! but I need my fix)