Carrot Top

It floors me that sometimes people don't seem to read the original questions that are posed in the start of the threads on eG. In threads about 'What will you make that is different for Thanksgiving than turkey' there are answers that argue for the original turkey. Then there are answers that discuss turkey gravy. The actual posts that encourage or support something that is actually 'different'...as the person that started the thread requested...are very few compared to those arguing for not doing what he wanted in the first place. In a thread about a restaurant murder when the question is asked 'Is there anything that might seem like a pattern that could be found' when answers are given to this question, one is reprimanded for being unsuitably coarse in not sitting down on the floor and crying, instead, for the murdered fellow. (Seems a better idea to me to try to find a way to avoid the same thing happening next time, but no...let's sit and cry instead. It is more appropriate.) In a thread that asks for new ways to do Xmas pudding, as in 'deconstruction'...or creative ideas....again....posts are made to argue against the idea of other people who might actually post a creative idea or two. Or more. It floors me that it seems this medium of communication falls more into the category of making posts to support one's own personal doings rather than actually reading and answering the requests that are specifically made. And it floors me that people seem to consistently argue for the mediocre. Wandering off-topic into areas that actually say something or offer some real, important information do not floor me. But this other stuff, does.

Perhaps this comment of mine really should be placed under the 'things that floor me' thread...but the original question that jackal posed was 'How could you present Xmas pudding in a new way?' So guess what. I made an attempt to answer that question, Betts.

Thank you for sharing the beautiful photos during Ramadan, Yetti...and of course at other times, too. And the greetings of the season to you and your family, also. Good thoughts for your mother's recovery. It is good that you are there with her.

I think the answer is lobbyists. All lobbyists who work for the fast food industry should be required by law to eat one of these things before they go to work each day. I bet their sinking productivity levels could be measured on a daily basis.... and of course a daily nap after lunch would be a required part of their days, too....

Actually that is probably the best idea. Keeps the authenticity, adds to the Dickensian factor (just imagine how the little tykes would love a sparkler!) and god knows it would save time effort and expense! At my home, sparklers it will be. But you know jackal....he is made to emblazon the road of fine cuisine with adventures that the rest of us can gasp at and admire while languidly reaching for the nearest pop-tart and bottled water....

M. Lucia, it sounds like Onion Heaven at your house. Behemoth...I am rather casual about cippoline agrodolce. Often I omit the blanching part (for easier peeling) and just peel with a very sharp little knife. Then they are popped into a saute pan with a knob of sweet butter, a sprinkling of salt, a generous grind of black pepper and some fresh minced thyme if it is available...otherwise a small pinch of dried thyme. Pour beef stock over to barely cover, add sugar and balsamic vinegar (about 2 tsp. sugar and 2 T vinegar per cup of stock) and simmer away on medium heat till the stock boils off, then lower the heat and let the onions caramelize nicely. Sometimes a bay leaf is a nice addition for a stronger flavor, and sometimes raisins...but I like them best, 'straight up'. These things are truly addictive. That lentil and goat cheese thing sounds dangerous, too...

Well then...here are some 'starter' ideas. They may all be too far removed from the original to suit, but I'll list them just for the fact that they may lead you to other ideas possibly. *Take the usual Xmas pudding, a small one, and enclose it in a filo dough shaped 'Beggar's Purse'. Possibly a recipe could be developed that would include a brandy-flavored pastry cream or custard to top the pudding that would hold up to the brief time in the oven that browning a Beggar's Purse takes, so that when the purse was broken into with fork, the sauce would spill out. This could take on the aspect of Santa's sack that is thrown over his back, filled with gifts...and could have added garnishes of various sorts during plating. *Bake French Meringue into small circles that vary in size from 3" in diameter down to 1" in diameter. It could be regular or cocoa/chocolate flavored, as you wish. Cut the (already made) Xmas pudding into circles also, of the same sizes. Stack up into a Christmas tree shape...first meringue, then pudding, meringue, then pudding, till done. Top with a flutter of edible gold leaf...attached to the top of the 'tree' with a small dab of icing. Could be that this could be flamed with brandy at service time, though I am unsure how the gold leaf would react, it would have to be tested. *I like the idea of the tastes of Xmas pudding and Macarpone together. One could make either a layered torte to be served with....an intensely flavored orange sabayon perhaps? Candied tangerine segments might be nice with this combination. Another way of putting it together would be to see if you could drain the mascarpone to get a firmer cheese then shape the cheese into small balls with your hands and the already-made plum pudding into balls with a melon baller then stack them up into a tree shape...I don't know if the cheese will be able to attain that measure of holding texture, though...but if you really wanted to play with it, you could blend it with a gelatin mix then attempt it. *The flavor of pear also seems to go with Xmas pudding, to me. You might hide a center of pudding inside a poached pear so that it would not be seen till cut into...candied violets might make for a rather rococo addition to the plate. *Top, or use as a background...the Xmas pudding with a large, imposing fluted caramel wedge. *Make the puddings in pyramid or cone shaped molds, or cut into these shapes from a larger molded pudding. Individually plate then enclose each with spun sugar. Okay. That has been my Xmas pudding thinking for tonight. Now it's off to find a tot of brandy for either the pudding or me.

My question would be...what is the intent of the new presentation....is it simply the visuals you are (for the most part) looking for, or do you want to take it further into the creative realm of building something slightly new, in taste or texture components? As a side issue I am curious to know if the intended guests will be more happy or more taken aback with the messing about with a standard? And also am curious, as you state that this is a restaurant dinner...are you making the dessert then carrying it into the restaurant or do you have such a thing as a compliant chef at this particular restaurant who would actually be willing to....try what you request? I have some slight ideas but want to know more what your intent is, please.

Once you have had Cippoline Agrodolce you will never go back to creamed onions.

Nostalgia? Hmmm. My daughter informed me...over a bowl of morning cereal recently....that it would be 'healthier' if she could have pizza for breakfast, based on the sugar-laden calories in most breakfast cereals. Cereal is an immensely popular all-purpose fast convenience food, isn't it? It can be eaten morning, noon and night. It is something that even the youngest hungry child can prepare for themselves without an adult's help (let's forget for the moment images of spilled milk slopping from the heavy gallon jugs... and the cereal boxes that don't ever get closed right). It comes in all sorts of flavors, is easily digestable, and in a pinch one can pretend to being eating something healthy because of the 'grains' and the milk. It is also inexpensive which matters to lots of people who have children to grow. It seems to be the ultimate 'modern' food to me, in that it fits in so well and usefully with the way life is for a huge segment of society. Ah. For nostalgia, it is fun to visit Cereal City in Battle Creek, Michigan. A fun walking sort of museum dedicated to everything about cereal, with lots of interactive displays for the children. That 'cereologist' image is sort of fun, though. Uh...but I am not sure whether the actuality of seeing unknown people in their pajamas would really be a fascinating experience.... What do you think? Prefer pajamas or something else...worn....by your server?

Yeah...well my crankiness makes me feel even more cranky about being cranky. As a side issue to my comments on commentators and their audiences it perhaps should be expressed that in a previous profession it was my personal experience on several occasions to see write-ups in both newspapers and magazines, both of good repute...by writers that in one case did not decide that the full story would be as interesting as half the story...thereby shading a reality into something not quite as real...and in another case, having my words actually re-shaped and re-formed into meanings that they never initially held. There were other occasions where this did not happen. But have it happen to you...in print...in public...and it is likely there will always be questions in your mind as to what 'journalism' is and what 'criticism' or 'reviews' are, as practiced. I say they can slip quite quickly into the genre of creative nonfiction. And what is one to make of that?

Ah...so kind of you, Michaei. Tally-ho, chop-chop and all that. Yours in times of war and peace, Karen-San

Absolutely. Would this not hold true for reviews also?

I had questions and concerns that I 'verbalized'. They were my own questions and concerns and I did not presume to say otherwise. Literally, I had no specific person in mind but rather a body of work(s) by many here and there....and a tone that I picked up. It is possible that it is only me that picked up this tone...but I never claimed it as a fact that required 'answering for'. I merely stated my own thoughts, for myself, on that 'tone'. The questions were about the genre, and the questions were about stylistic approaches, about what is perceived to be the 'correct' approach...and the questions were about human nature. If there is a straw man or woman in your mind, they really are yours alone. If there is none, great! Whisk away my impertinence.

Nope. Decide for yourself.

This is possible and probable that different reviewers are being thought of, Bux. But I am thinking of nobody specific at all...in terms of the questions I have. Does a 'review' of a restaurant, as we generally understand it, as written by most reviewers across the country...fall under the category of traditional 'journalism' and therefore is it to be taken and read in the same ways journalism is? Is it subject to the same rules even though (to me) it seems to be a very different experience to prepare a traditional journalistic report which is based on verifiable facts rather than subjective opinion? There are lines being crossed here in ways of writing about things that makes the writing about things somewhat muddied and unclear to my mind. And I love good writing. I love good writers... and admire good journalists who take the time to research and check facts. This seems rather unclear to me....and it also galls me that people might read an opinion as a fact. And basically I have to admit I don't really care a whole lot, except I felt belligerent today.

A liar or a knave, huh? Nope, not worthless nor uninteresting. Just depends on how the thing is being presented...as an opinion or as a perceived fact...and the way it is written will inform the reader as to how the writer intends it to be taken. To me, pomposity is tolerable at moments. It can be amusing and useful in creating a mood. But pretension sticks in my gullet. To me, I consider a review or a criticism.... entertainment and a view into how other people think....most particularly the writer. If it holds more than that because of whatever has been put into it, that is great. The entertainment part is of the most value to me. Obviously, other things will be of value to other people.

I'm searching to see if this is a trick question, Michael. I don't see why not, unless the 'critic' brought a set of opinions into the mix and got them all blended into the analysis of the thinking behind the meal. For that is not reporting facts, that is something else. And it seems to me that food reviews are being put under the category of 'journalism' in terms of how it is thought we should think of them. But here. We are talking about how people, individuals, react to and then critique a meal. My experience is that I could seat four individuals around a table. I could match those individuals in terms of similar educations.... cultural backgrounds....general personalities...even as to how they had spent the day up till this moment in time. I could serve them four plates of the exactly precise same meal cooked by the same person with the same ingredients plated at the same time served by four servers who looked and acted as close as any four clones could. And I could call them afterwards and say "What did you think of the meal?" And I could get four distinctly different answers. Yep. It has happened. It is sort of like the stories of how when police interview bystanders about what the perpertrators of a crime (jeez bad choice of words when talking about a meal, but whatever... ) look like, they will get completely different 'eyewitness' reports. I just like to see and feel things for myself. And not be told I am being 'educated' by what is actually someone else's personal opinion.

No of course I am not in favor of ignorance. The more one can learn about anything, the better. BUT there is a difference between choosing one's own hopefully intelligent and useful pattern of learning and that of blindly following what someone else may say is the best pattern of learning. Obviously there are some classic things in every metier that require understanding for full understanding of the metier. But two things strike me. One. That a person will not get a full rich education from reading and swallowing another person's opinions which have been displayed as facts. If you think I am overstating the case for gullibility of the public...well...you may think I am overstating the case. Que sera. It may also perhaps not be placed under the heading of 'gullibility' but perhaps a confusion of what is factual journalism and what is op-ed sort of writing. But "Follow-the-Leader" is a popular game not only with children. Two. Too often...again...in my own personal opinion...I see people who are so busy being analytical about things, so busy showing how much they 'know' in an intellectual, tearing-apart-of-subject sort of way....that they are writing scenarios in their heads about what is going on in the moment rather than just experiencing it. Everything they see, feel, hear, taste, is instantly reflected into the pool of intellectual knowledge to be matched or mirrored. They are so busy thinking that they don't even really lose themselves in the fact of tasting something without superimposed this and that. I hope that explains what I said better. If you add in the idea that I love to throw out bold blanket statements just for the purpose of getting a good discussion going, maybe that will help too.

Yes. And that is not about opinion..which is what many reviews offer. Ingredients, processes, history. And cooking. Should be learned if one wants to have a good understanding and sense of food. Reading someone's opinion of a meal does not do this.

I think that's too bad. If you had instruction on how to read space in paintings and how they fit into a history of previous artworks, etc., you could understand the painting on many deeper levels than just an image you can see without any art education. And I suppose there's an analogy with food, in that some understanding of what chefs intend through their methods (the theoretical level) and what the history of different aspects of cuisine have been (the historical level) may help diners to instruct themselves. The fact that I'm less convinced such a culinary education is necessary for the knowledgeable appreciation of food than a good art education is for the knowledgeable appreciation of art may well just be a reflection of my relative lack of knowledge in various matters of cuisine. After all, it's hard for people to know what they're missing by virtue of not knowing things and, therefore, easy to think that ignorance is bliss or some such. Now, if you'd rather not have any of that context and would rather simply use your unaided eye to look at paintings, etc., that's your choice, but I won't pretend that I don't consider it an inferior choice. Whether paying attention to art critics will teach you much that's worth knowing and whether food critics are the best placed to educate the public about matters culinary are separate questions. And I suspect that the public is probably a bit better placed to judge the latter than the former, but that opinion might again be an indication of my relative lack of knowledge about the culinary arts as opposed to the fine arts. ← I have had education in how to read space and other things in art, Michael. And have lived with a gallery-represented artist in Soho in a time when there were only three places to eat in the entire neighborhood...Spring Street Bar, Broome Street Bar, and EAT. And have met and dined and conversed about art at length with the gallery owners who were first to move downtown into that neighborhood in a time of festering magnificent renewal and growth. I do know the difference between an unfettered experience and a possibly over-educated one (if there can be such a thing? that depends on how the person who receives the education swallows it, digests it...whole in a piece as a truth or...as a subjective, again...part of the entire experience). I have seen too many people mouthing the opinions of others without using their own brain cells, their own senses, their own common sense....and standing behind the fine title of 'education' (or in this case, of critical opinion)as they mouth other's opinions as their own. Education to me is a process that starts from within and takes from many places that exist ...outside. Education...often to me as it is used today seems a dry old duck that does not do a lot to encourage creativity. I like to have had access to the more formal facets of education. But the ultimate experience must still come from within. And that, is paradoxical as so many things are.

Your post did seriously entertain me, mebutter. Lovely, testy, point-on post there that has brought chortles of laughter from me in memory all this morning. Here is something that I must say. It is possible that nobody at all will agree with me on this...and it is also possible that nobody will even deign to answer the idea. So what. I am feeling mildly pugilistic as usual. It does not seem to me....that the ultimate way of 'education' in terms of food, of dining in restaurants...can be or should be made by 'critics'. The education about food...the gainsaying of knowledge that would allow for fine discriminations....the experience of food which is visceral and subjective...which can only be made objective by so many qualifications and delineations within each dining experience....is to my mind best made by the individual restauranteurs, by the chefs, by the tastes and experiences of the diners. The food is the education itself and the diner is best, self-educated. As when looking at a painting...a work of art. Do I want to be informed by a critic of its greater or lesser importance first, its place in the Grand Scheme of things, everything surrounding the making of it and the artist that created it, the influences, the differences from its influences, whether it is 'pure' in its way or not and whether the critic approves of it or not? Uh...not really. I want to see that painting as it stands with no forethought or analysis in my mind at all. I want to taste it and experience it unfettered. As unfettered as is humanly possible. To feel....that one needs to read and be 'educated' by critical reviews seems rather sad to me...and rather wrong if most people are doing it and following along...allowing their own perceptions to be shaped by someone else's. Knowledgeable guides to food and restaurants are good and valuable things for those that wish to have a 'lead' into where it is they want to go. But I say, let each person taste....for themselves. For greater knowledge of food, there are cookbooks. There are books written about the history of food...providing the way of education in what might be considered 'authentic' or not authentic...if that matters to the reader/eater. I would not ever really wish to argue...a review with a critic that he/she wrote. They have their taste, I have mine, and to each their own. But I really have no wish to be 'educated' by the subjective tastes of someone elses palate....it feels sort of pushy to me. That's just me.

Well. I know you guys are all serious about this, and rightly so. But it has been greatly entertaining to read, nonetheless. Maybe in unanticipated ways, but nevertheless... Mebutter....you just took the prize for the most entertaining post ever. A "10" on the Laughter Scale. And that...is what I look for in a critic. Mostly...an entertaining read. Everything else is so terribly subjective with food and with the people that eat it that.... honestly...how can one say what another will like or dislike...particularly given possible daily inconsistencies of BOH or FOH....and then of course the inconsistency of human beings which even depending on the particular "mood" they are in at the moment of dining, can affect the flavor of the food and the experience of the meal. A really good read and a hopefully good lead. What more could one ask?

Well... Papaya King has been surviving and apparently doing well with New York City rents for a loooooong time.....and in some decent foot-traffic locations, too. Of course, who knows. Could be they own the buildings...but the shops are so tiny that I sort of doubt it.

Uh... No. No. Please, god, no. ← I pretty much have a little freak-out from seeing the nom de flume [sic] "Carrot Top," but not from our eG friend here. I think of the unfunny performer who could be Janet Reno's redheaded stepchild. But eG Carrot Top, you are worth the cover charge. ← You are a dear person, tanabutler...and not only for saying the above but for your beautiful photos and the care you have for things from the earth...and in the way you show us their beauty. I don't watch much TV...the children watch it as I wander around 'doing things' in the house...so when I chose that Carrot Top name I didn't think of that fellow! It was hard to find a name that wasn't 'taken' on eG ....lots of people here! and this is my first 'on-line' experience. The name was chosen because it is one of the ridiculous names small redheaded girls are called in their youth that makes them blush and makes them sort of mad...which of course happened to me. At first, every time I read it on-line, it made me laugh out loud to think of myself as this name, so that is good. It shows that so much less nonsense matters as one gets older! I was uh...yeah...somewhat shocked when I saw who this other Carrot Top was... But he is younger than me...so the name is mine first!! Sometime soon will get a photo and post it so there will be a different reference point for the name, I promise. P.S. Hey wait a minute...the cover charge here is free!!! Pshaw.