lizziee

Steve, It is not so much the actual cell phone usage as the constant ringing of the phone. I don't mind if someone has a vibrating ring, but when every 5 minutes you hear the ringing of a phone in an expensive high-end restaurant, it is very annoying.

In Today's New York Times under Food Stuff by Florence Fabricant, there is this short item: "Take Pity on the Poor Risotto Noted, as "an environmental advisory," on the menu at Harry Cipriani, 781 Fifth Avenue (59th Street): "The use of cellular phones interferes with preparation of risotto." If a restaurant, particularly a fine dining one, does not have a policy about cell phones or the GM is loathe to stop the cell phone use, what do you do? If one of the options you use is to ask the cell phone user to stop and they refuse, what then?

Wimpy, Please be aware that most Paris Michelin star restaurants, except for the hotel restaurants, the bistro and the brasserie are closed in August. Buerehiesel in Strasbourg is also closed in August. I have not been to Joigny since it lost a star, but had a wonderful meal there many years ago.

Steve, Excellent, well-thought out post. Steve says: "Because there are at least 8 restaurants in NYC offering near flawless consummate achievements in technique, presentation, service, quality of ingredients, creativity, ambience night in and night out--delivering what the chef is trying to achieve against this historical standard of achievment--that's how." The crucial part of this statement is "delivering what the chef is trying to achieve against this historical standard of achievement." Subjectively, I might not "like" the achievement, but as a critic or knowledgeable diner, I have to put personal preference aside and judge a chef on what he wants to "say." My expectations for a critic is to let me know what the chef tried to achieve, how well it was accomplished and how well it was delivered. With this knowledge in hand, I can then decide if this is a restaurant I would enjoy or just as soon avoid. I think that is where subjective evaluation comes into play - the decision to go or not. Steve says,"Yes there are sudden punctuations--the sudden emergence of an Adria or a Gagnaire which upsets the canon--but the really knowledgeable, really trusted sources find a way to deal with these and frame them in the context of what has come before--and this exists outside what one's subjective response is." I think this is the crux for the serious diner. Steve P. put it more succinctly,"Well the issue isn't whether it is perfect for you, the issue is whether your palate is complete in it's understanding of haute cuisine" or understanding of what Adria and/or Gagnaire want you to experience. Whether my preference is for the cerebral or the purity of the ingredient or the subtle mixing of flavors or the innovative and unexpected is unimportant. My judgement must put aside personal preference and focus on the success of the stated goal.

Now, to the implied question. What I expect from a reviewer is to "clue me in," and "what to expect." The reason I made the trek to El Bulli 2 years ago was from a review in AMEX that described "inventive, creative" cuisine. It was for that one reason I was intrigued and built a trip around getting there. If on getting there, I asked where is the --------- on the menu, then, it's as if I didn't use the review at all. For example, when you read a description of a hotel, you decide if the fit is right for you. I think, given that you are comparing 3* to 3*, there is a different fit for each person.

Steve, To fill in the blank - I say that Ducasse is a perfect 3 * dining experience and anyone would find their expectations met. His goals for the diner, the way I view what Ducasse is "trying to say", is perfectly met. I would not hesitate to suggest Ducasse, but I would also clue someone in about what to expect.

Steve P -- Err, you might be beaten to that by another eGulleteer who is assisting in my "rehabilitation". My condition is, I believe, incurable and perfect for me. I think it is impossible to change the bias one has towards food or a particular restaurant, but I think it is important for anyone, be it a professional critic or an amateur, but knowledgeable diner, to honestly take into account one's biases and then try to assess a restaurant on what the chef is trying to achieve. I prefer Gagnaire to Ducasse, because I enjoy the cerebral aspects of Gagnaire's cuisine. Ducasse's emphasis is not the cerebral, but the integrity of the ingredient, perfectly prepared. My expectations at Ducasse and Gagnaire are very different and I think it unfair to use my personal preferences as a basis to downgrade one over the other. Cabrales, I fear that the only way you will like Gagnaire is if he cooked in the style you enjoyed. But then, you would not be eating Gagnaire's food.

I wouldn't ask a doctor of his or her opinion about another doctor, but I might want to know who they use as their doctor? Many, many chefs make a point of going to Citronelle, including Adria. Michel Richard is passionate about food; he is demanding and expects that same committment from his staff. But the bottom line for me is that I have had some of the finest meals ever at Citrus (when Michel Richard was in Los Angeles) and Citronelle in D.C. To return to the question at hand, the chef's table at Citronelle is much like what Michael describes at his restaurant. Michael, your description sounds like a wonderful experience and one that deserves to be a "destination restaurant." I look forward to hearing your thoughts on Paris.

"I'm trying to picture the table at Citronelle- is the glass between the table and the rest of the dining room, or between the table and the kitchen?" The chef's table at Citronelle is in the kitchen, right next to the glass that separates the dining room from the kitchen. It is approximately 15 feet, give or take, from the passe. The table is a beautiful, polished wood French farm table that lends an informal "country" feel. Michel Richard never has to worry about anyone seeing his kitchen. It is spotless. At Citrus, in LA, it was also an open kitchen, but with no chef's table. Unlike, Steve, I am a huge fan of Michel Richard. I think his creativity is exceptional, his passion as strong, his commitment total and his quest for the best, the best. He is a chef completely deserving of the acclaim he receives and the respect of every chef you speak to both in the States and in France.

Stagis, I have used this recipe and it is a never fail. I have used it with corn from the market so it is not necessary to worry about fresh-picked, although I agree fresh-picked is the best. Creamed Corn 4 to 6 Servings 4 to 6 large ears of fresh corn ( 3 cups) 1 1/2 cups heavy cream 3 tablespoons unsalted butter (optional or use less) 2 tablespoons finely chopped flat leaf parsley 1 tablespoon finely chopped fresh sage Salt and freshly ground pepper 1. Using a thin sharp knife, slice the corn kernels from each cob into a large measuring cup, scraping the cobs with the knife to extract any juices, until you have three cups. 2. In a large heavy saucepan, bring the cream to a boil over moderately high heat ( it tends to foam up and boil over, so be ready to stir it down). Add the corn kernels and return to a boil, then reduce the heat to moderately low and boil gently, stirring, until the cream is thick and coats the corn, about 15 minutes. 3. Stir in the parsley and sage. Season with salt and pepper to taste. If you are going to hold it for a couple of hour, do not add the butter as the butter will separate on re-heating. (In fact, I made this Saturday night, and didn't even add the butter - it didn't need it.) The recipe can be made up to three hours ahead. Set aside at room temperature, partially covered. rewarm over moderate heat until hot.

Catalunya is an impossible place to navigate. When we were there last year, ALL the route numbers had just been changed. As a result there were no up-to-date maps so no route numbers corresponded to the map. Also, Bux is quite correct that going to a destination restaurant is very difficult. Unlike France, these are generally free-standing restaurants which necessitates finding a place to stay plus figuring out what mode of transportation to and from the restaurant. At the moment, the San Sebastian side of Spain as well as the Costa Brava have the excitement of the "new" chefs. It is as if Spain needs to catch up to this culinary bonaza and create the supporting aspects of hospitatlity ie. R & C type establishments.

Cabrales, We liked Jean Luc Figueras very much. The cuisine is very contemporary and the decor stark. We found the service exceptional. Our waiter, Mikial, had worked at Guy Savoy. The sommelier is a young woman, Helene, who selected wonderful, inexpensive Catalonian wines. It is difficult to describe the food. There are separate flavors on the plate that need to be mixed as you eat it. It is not the 20 ingredient syndrome of some American chefs, but the chef focuses on a number of ingredients and wants the mixing at the moment. We had the tasting menu - 2 amuse were served beforehand. Memorable dishes were: Rare ducks chunks, iced tomato with shrimp, gazpacho soup with apple puree, snails with a red pepper mousse and a baby pork with peach honey and hot goat cheese. I commented on Ca L'Isidre in another thread, but will briefly comment here. This is a real find. We got there around 1:45 and the place was empty. By 3:00 every table was filled, no tourists, mostly affluent businessmen. Our waiter, Joseph, spoke perfect English and with his help we orchestrated a perfect lunch. We started with tiny whitebait deep fried - every time they fry up a batch, they use fresh oil. Next a gazpacho with clams and shrimp - the gazpacho was pureed with a little oil floating on the top. Next quickly sauteed squid in olive oil that were so tender they melted in your mouth. Finally, their speciality - roast baby goat with small onions and white wine. Cabrales, they do a humorous "egg" dish for dessert. Naria, the daughter does the pastry. In an egg shell, she placed sabayon which represented the yolk, white choclate was the white of the egg and underneath it all, liquid dark chocolate. La Dama was horrible - old-fashioned, tired food, indifferent service. They rushed us through our tasting menu in an hour. Gaig - I have no tasting notes. It is traditional cuisine with good service. It has been in the Gaig family for 4 generations, but other than remembering that the room was elegant and the dining was relaxed, I have no recollection of what I actually ate. Botafumerio - this is suppose to be one of the best seafood restuarnt in Barcelona. It is a huge room so the atmosphere is one of "rush." We had the large cold seafood plate - it was piled high with cold spider crab, crab legs, langoustines, oysters, clams. The fish was incredible fresh - just caught. But this is more a place for a quick, light lunch than fine dining.

Robert, In every Michelin Guide there is a card that you can send to Michelin with your comments and evaluation. It asks for the name and address of the establishment and then asks you to rate from very good, good, average, poor on the following: value for money, welcome, setting and atmosphere, food, comfort, upkeep, service, peace and quiet and accuracy of prices as quoted in the guide. Their adddress is Michelin- Editions des Voyages - 46, avenue de Breteuil - F-75324 Paris Cedex 07. Alternatively you can send comments via their website at www.ViaMichelin.fr or e-mail them at leguiderouge-france@fr.michelin.com I think you should definitely send them your reactions to the Euro increase phenomenon.

Steve and Bux, "Adria's cuisine makes it plain for all to see that a dish can be interesting while not necessarily tasting the greatest. Of course there's a balancing act there in that if it tastes so bad it can completely eliminate the value of the cerebral component." Steve, this is exactly correct. Dining at El Bulli is as much a cerebral experience as a gustatory one. As I stated earlier, in 2001, there were so few "good tastes" that the cerebral component was lost. It seems that this year, he was able to again achieve that "balancing act" and provide food that could be both enjoyed for both aspects - intellectual plus delicious. "I think El Bulli also has to be approached as a place where you will be expected to think about what you are eating as much as you will be expected to enjoy your meal. Adria goes beyond challenging your taste buds. Any preconception you may have about dinner is fair game for his menu. This is an approach that most certainly offends many diners and the reason I limit my recommendation to dine here to those who are likely to be ready for the challenge and likely to enjoy it." Bux, what I find interesting in my own experience is that the first two times we ate at El Bulli, I had no preconceived notions and no idea what to expect. I was so "blown away" by the whole experience, in the best sense of the word. I remember thinking that anyone serious about the culinary arts had to make the pilgrimage. Adria was doing so much more than experimentation, he was challenging us to see food in a different way, challenging our culinary education and experiences and challenging us to open our brains as well as taste buds. He was successful on all counts. When I returned, I had expected that same type of "epiphany" and that's why the sheer disappointment. "how often during his meal he is convincingly successful with the dishes he delivers to the table and how persuasive I find his overall sensibilities. It's a ride I find both interesting and pleasurable--sure I get pleasure out of the interesting part and I find pleasure itself an interesting thing--the bumps in the road are an integral part of the experience." We have made plans to return to El Bulli because what you and Robert have found this year seems to indicate that the balancing act is much more in balance. I expect the bumps - in fact that is part of the excitement and pleasure. I also agree that this is not a "ride" for everyone. Thank you Steve, Robert and Bux for such thoughtful replies.

What I find extraordinary is that for 15 pages you have discussed what is fine dining vs cheap eats and in the process have not seen Robert Brown's and Bux's excellent post on Adria.

Nick, A really nice menu. It shows that you are "tweaking" your clientele. There is a section in Food Arts called "what they loved, what they didn't get" (I think that's right). Do you find the same problem? My guess would be there are less orders of the Lamb rib eye, the Duck confit, and the Foie Gras. I hope I am wrong because you had to work really hard on these dishes and if I were there, I promise you I wouldn't order a Caesar Salad with dressing on the side.

Steve's comment will only be understood if you have waded through 13 pages of The Fine Dining vs. Cheap Eats thread!

Liza, You're a doll! Yesterday, I went to the book store and poured over every book I could find. Same problem. Gagnaire must have made this one up, but it was unbelievably delicious.

Bux, You are right about that. The red guide, in that case, is the only answer. I was thinking along these lines. We are driving from Lyon to Annecy - I will put that in, in a general sense and see what towns they list - fast route, scenic route, route rec. by Michelin. Then see what might be in the vicinity that looks interesting.

Bux, Once you have your driving directions, Michelin will list the towns on the way to your destination and also note if there is lodging or restaurants there. You can then click on the town and they list both restaurants and lodging according to category ie luxury or by stars. I still use my red quide, however, and couldn't do without it.

You can find the book at: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/bo...1862134-8739001

To enlarge this discussion a bit in the best "e-gullet tradition", I think you first have to decide why a restaurant is a 3 star? or why certain chefs are considered great? On a strictly personal level, what I find the most exciting is taking a dish that is so familiar, that we have eaten numerous times and either giving it a twist that you didn't expect or "tweaking" it to greater heights. Often it is doing something that on the surface seems simple that you say to yourself, "Why didn't I think of that?" Steve's example of Robuchon is perfect. I think he is absolutely correct when he states,"the decision to make the mashed potatoes half potatoes and half butter and cream, that's the culinary equivelent of climbing Mount Everest." Simple yes, but a culinary stroke of genius. When you think of it, the best inventions have been the simplest - the hula hoop, the straw, the coiled telephone cord.

" the menu is a selection of dishes from the carte with 1-4 selections per course, most typically 2. These are full sized portions. In return for selecting from the menu and eating a full meal, the diner receives a substantial discount over the cost of the meal had it been ordered a la carte. " Marcus, Each of the restaurants I listed has a tasting menu. They are not full-size portions, but at least 5 or 6 small dishes that doesn't include the amuse or the cheese. I have the menus from each of the above restaurants and checked my accuracy before posting.

"Many restaurants, including 3 star restaurants, do not offer tasting menus." Marcus, My experience has been just the opposite. Most of the restaurants we go to in France have a tasting menu and only a few offer just an a la carte option. I know L'Ambrosie and Taillevent do not have a tasting menu. I am not sure about Boyer and Lameloise. But the majority - Bras (which you mentioned), Jardins des Sens, Ducasse, Lucas Carton, Guy Savoy, Pierre Gagnaire, Arpege, Apicius, Faugeron, Les Elysees, Pre Catalan, Jamin, Le Cinq, Rostang, Troisgros, Guerard, Bocuse, Veyrat, La Cote d'Or, L'Esperance, Cote St Jacques, Pic, Oustau de Baumaniere, Auberge de Templiers, Georges Blanc, Regis Marcon's Auberge et Clos des Cimes, Lion d'Or, Trama's Aubergade, Passedat - all have tasting menus. " so many elaborate dishes in small quantities requires a maximum in pre-planning and corner cutting such that the results are often not that good." Marcus, I have never found this to be true. What in your experience makes you feel there is corner cutting?

Liza, The issue of the Art Culinaire you are refering to is #48. I made, over the weekend, the scrambled egg with uni and topped with caviar. It was wonderful. They have an uni flan with green pea bisque that sounds interesting. Problem is that it sounds like last minute cooking and hard to serve to company. I love the scallop dish with uni, but my husband hates scallops. Jinmyo, That sounds great, but the Japanese preparation doesn't fit with the menu. I will try it though.