Smithy

How do you know whether a quince is ripe and good to buy? I know they'll be hard, because they have to be cooked to soften. In the past I've tried using the smell test but not been able to smell much; the quinces I tried seemed vaguely apple-and-pearish, but not out of the ordinary. The same held true when I cooked them, and I was left wondering what all the fuss is about. Still... the color is pretty when the quinces are cooked, and quince paste is wonderful stuff. I don't know whether I'm expecting too much, buying the wrong fruit, or don't have access to good fruit because our produce buyer doesn't know how to get the good stuff. I'd appreciate pointers and thoughts from those of you in the know.

Up here in Duluth, I can still stick a pot of chicken stock outside and have it cool quickly, or a smaller jar of lemon juice and have it freeze overnight. But it's strictly an overnight operation now. I can see all the debris in the yard! The snow is going! My chives are coming up!!!

This is the reason why I like to buy organic. There have been so many publicized episodes of pesticides poisoning groundwater, wetlands (Kesterson National Wildlife Refuge), streams and rivers (we hear lots about the effect of pesticide runoff and salmon here in the PNW) and workers (there's a ton of documentation about pesticide poisoning and farm workers). I'm certainly not perfect-there are times when it's just not economically feasible, and I'm not going to stop eating in restaurants that don't use organic products. I also buy from the small, non-organic farmers at the farmer's markets who tell me they practice sustainable farming, only spray when absolutely necessary, etc. But I really avoid buying the grocery store non-organic stuff from the big farms in the Central Valley, etc. ← I have my own beefs with the large-scale farms on the western side of the San Joaquin Valley, but I think you've thrown a red herring in here. (Sorry for the mixed metaphor.) As I recall, the Kesterson National Wildlife Refuge problems were from selenium. That's neither a pesticide nor a deliberate additive; it's a natural compnent of the soil in that part of the San Joaquin Valley. As farming increased upstream of Kesterson, more selenium-rich soil ran off into the streams. The grasses in the wetlands took it back up - which was good for cleaning the water, but not so good for the waterfowl that ate the grasses and were poisoned by the selenium. Blame the large-scale farmers for tilling the soil in those parts and adding it to the runoff, if you want, but I don't think you can use Kesterson to argue against pesticides or in favor of organic farming.

Don't forget horseradish. I planted a sprouting root one year in our sandy flower bed next to the house, and was delighted to see leaves break the surface of the planting area only a couple of weeks later. A month after planting (well, it may have been 6 weeks) its leaves towered over everything else in the plot. My darling husband asked what that was, and when I proudly told him, he said, "You'd better move it, or it'll come through the foundation next spring." I didn't believe him at first, but when his brother also advised me that the monster would be knocking at our door come fall and we'd NEVER get rid of it, I decided to move it. That sprout couldn't have been planted more than 4 months, and already the tap root had split in 2 or 3 directions. I was down past my shoulder, digging through after the tendrils, before I got enough to be satisfied. The remainder of my dear giant (I named it Fingol) was replanted at the edge of the woods, where it can fight with the spruce. It hasn't come back in the flower bed, at least, so we haven't needed to do house renovations, and I haven't had to listen to my dear bro-in-law say "I told you so". I often think it would be interesting to plant lupine, horseradish and mint in the same plot and see who won. Someone in Washington (state) said some time back that lupine isn't invasive...but it's very aggressive around here.

Thanks so much for those links, Andie. The first thread is really where I should have put my post. You're a more efficient searcher than I am. Does milk change the color of the pottery? Do you have a feel for when milk might be more appropriate? For instance, the black chamba recommends milk. I haven't heard it suggested in the context of Egyptian or Moroccan clay. I wonder if it's due to the different nature of the clay, or some cultural influence.

That Laughing Goat Pottery is beautiful. I absolutely, positively, must not go back to that web site. My kitchen cupboards and budget won't stand it. I know there are more threads around here somewhere about curing clay pottery, but this one is up and I'm tired of trying to find the others. If some moderator wants to move my post to a more appropriate thread, or split it to a new one, feel free. I recently experimented with different cures of small Egyptian clay pots. This shape is called a tagine in Egypt (pronounced "DA-gin", with the first letter being such a hard t that it's almost a d) although it's quite different than the Moroccan tagine. In past years I've been told to rub this pottery with molasses (they call it 'black honey') and cook in an oven until cured, and that's what I've done. This year one vendor told me to use oil. "Oil?" I asked, "not molasses?" "You can use oil and molasses, if you want, or you can just use oil," was the reply. The purpose of the cure is to strengthen the pot and get it ready for cooking. My observation is that it also fixes the paint - which appears to be a basic mix of some reddish pigment and water. (Iron oxide? More clay? One and the same? I don't know.) Until the pot is cured the paint leaves reddish marks on hands, cloth, whatever. The paint is strictly cosmetic, to give the pots more of a reddish color; they're more of a muddy brown without it. I couldn't find any of the size and shape I wanted without the paint. I cooked all pots at around 300F for at least an hour - maybe it was 350 or 325 - it didn't seem to make much difference. One vendor said to cook in a hot oven for 20 minutes; another said to cook in a medium oven for an hour; my friends of the molasses cure used the medium oven for at least an hour trick. It seems to me that the coating itself lets you know when it's done. Here's a photo of some untreated tagines, as they came from the vendor in Luxor. The first test was to compare oil vs. molasses. I rubbed the left-hand tagine with molasses and oil and the right-hand one with oil. The paper towel in front of the right-hand pot shows what I mean about the paint rubbing off; that's the towel I used to coat the tagine with oil. Both tagines were coated thoroughly before baking. The molasses and oil have such a different density and viscosity that I had trouble getting them to mix. By the way, they just say "cooking oil", and it's not olive oil. I used canola oil. This is what they looked like afterward. (I can't figure out how to flip that image left-to-right. Sorry.) The oil-treated tagine didn't change color (perhaps that's the advantage of that treatment) and the oil didn't bead up in the pot the way the molasses did. The molasses coat dries hard and beads up on the pot surface when it's finished. There's a fair amount of cleaning to be done afterward to keep it from rubbing black gunk off on everything it touches. By the way, that's also been true of the molasses-only cures I've done before. The next 3 pots got different treatments: oil, wood ash and honey as suggested by Paula Wolfert; oil and honey per another PW suggestion, and maple syrup because that happens to be the readiest source of syrupy sugary stuff I have around here, and I wanted to see what happened. It was not cut with oil. I had quite a time getting the ash to mix in with the oil and honey, and couldn't really figure out what purpose the oil served, because it didn't mix well with the rest. (I think it's the same problem noted above of having wildly different density and viscosity of the mixing fluids.) The oil and honey together mixed better than with the ash, and better than oil and molasses had. Before firing: oil/ash/honey back left; oil/honey back right; straight maple syrup in front. Note the distinctly grey color to the ash-coated tagine. After firing, here's what they looked like: The beading up of the coating shows up more clearly inside the pots: The maple syrup-coated pot had the hardest glaze of them all, and seemed slightly tacky before I cleaned it up. I washed all of them to get the loose stuff off, and oiled them and cooked them some more. As Paula notes above, the oil gives them more of a sheen. When all is said and done, here's what I have for this size tagine: Back row, left to right: Ash/honey/oil; maple syrup; honey/oil Front row, left to right: Newly treated molasses/oil; well-used molasses-only warhorse; oil-only The maple syrup-glazed pot still has the hardest glaze. I can't see that the ash made much difference, comparing the oil/ash/honey to the oil/honey. I think the caramelization of the sugar must provide more of the coloring than the ash, at least for these pots. The oil may help the coating flow more if you can get a good mix, but the oil/molasses coat is pretty spotty. The oil-only pot still looks the most porous, but it's stopped rubbing off on my hands and I'm sure it's good to go. Whether this will make any difference in actual cooking remains to be seen. I suspect it won't. I wondered whether the maple syrup would give a different flavor, but after the pots have sat a while they all seem to smell about the same.

When I first got my Rifi tagine I noticed very fine cracks in the surface. I wrote and asked whether it was defective, and was told that they're surface cracks and not a factor in the pot strength. I've almost quit noticing them now - I had to look hard to find them in the first place - but I can imagine that in a drier climate they might start to grow. I'd suggest oiling the cone and baking it again as you did in the first place. The oil and ash treatment described above might help fill in the cracks and seal the surface, too. Finally, rather than take the suggestion of someone who might now know what she's talking about (!) tou might should contact tagines.com and ask what they'd suggest. Photos would help if you have a digital camera.

It's a funny thing. Until this year I've been told in Egypt, both at the pottery stand and at my friend's house, to rub my various pots with molasses (they call it black honey) and bake before using. That's what I've done. This year I went to the same pottery stand as ever and was told to use oil. When I asked about molasses, the vendor said I could mix the two if I wished, but that it wasn't necessary. Recently I've tried curing pots by rubbing, then baking, with oil, oil and honey, oil and molasses, oil and honey and wood ash, molasses only, and maple syrup. The darkening of the pots comes with the ash or the sugars. The oil doesn't darken the pots, and it may leave them slightly more porous, but that last may be my imagination. Once there's a coat of something caramelized, the oil certainly closes up the pores more. The oil does seem to distribute the coating materials more evenly, so my earlier pots cured strictly with molasses are more spotty than the recent pots cured with oil and X. When all's said and done, I'm not sure there's much difference in the cure. I agree with Paula that the ash/sugar/whatever seems to be mostly cosmetic. I have photos if anyone's interested, but it may take a few days. Camera and computer don't seem to be talking the same language right now.

I can see why it would only be somewhat helpful. I'll add some questions for you to answer. First: how much bigger than your burner is your clay baker? If it's a small baker - the same size as the burner - then you might be able to use it over low heat. However, if its sides are tall relative to the base, then they might not warm up fast enough to prevent cracking. If the baker is oblong and parts of it would overhang the burner, that could also cause uneven heating with consequent cracking. Second: I don't recall reading a temperature restriction on the rifi tagine in the oven, although I know the cone isn't supposed to go into the oven. Are you sure the pot part of the tagine can't go into the oven at high temperatures? I think I've done that with mine. Finally, I should note that not all clays are the same - even if they're unglazed. My Egyptian clay pots are much more porous than, say, a terra cotta planter. Somewhere in one of these clay pot threads Paula Wolfert reported that the pottery cure of coating a pot with molasses and cooking it didn't work on terra cotta planters because their pores were too fine. However, the molasses coat is the only curing method I heard (until recently) for Egyptian clay cooking pots. In other words, different clays will have different heat conduction and expansion behaviors. Sorry if the Corning Ware seemed extraneous.

You may not have to wait so long for your rifi. Mine, and Fifi's, both were supposed to be that long but they only took a week. Speaking of Fifi: I've been hoping Madame Materials Scientist would make an appearance here to shed light on the oven/stovetop confusion. I guess I'll have to start this. Three determining factors for whether something can go on the stovetop include: * how much it expands when heated (thermal expansion), * how fast it transmits heat (thermal conduction), and * how intense and localized (okay, maybe that's 4 factors) the heat source is. If you have something that expands quickly when heated, but doesn't conduct heat well, then it won't do well on the stovetop with high heat. Why not? Because the stove flame (or coil) will heat a small area of the pot - maybe the entire bottom but not the rim, or maybe just a small portion of the bottom - too quickly for the rest of the pot to keep up. The heated portion will expand, but it won't do a good job of transmitting the heat to the adjoining clay on the sides so that clay will start to heat too. If the heat is too intense then the heated portion will expand too quickly; the unheated portion will still be cool and not expanding, and you'll get a crack. (This could also happen, by the way, with a thick pot that heats up too quickly on the outside for the inside to keep up.) How do you get around that? Lower the heat source so that the pot can heat up fairly uniformly, or else put the pot in the oven so the whole thing gets even heating. Pots that transmit heat quickly - good conductors - will be less prone to cracking on the stovetop because the heat at the base will be transmitted quickly to the unheated sides. Corning Ware is a good example. I've been surprised at the things I can cook on the stovetop, now that I've started playing with this concept. I've risked a ceramic casserole dish that is emphatically not intended for stovetop, and it's done just fine. Still, I'm cautious with the idea: can you imagine the mess I'll have if a stew pot ever cracks on the stove? Yow! The other thing to remember about clay pots is that the reverse - localized quick cooling - can be just as disastrous as localized high heat. Add liquids slowly. Don't add cold liquid to a hot pan. I heat my liquid somewhat (what little I seem to need), and I add it at first by pouring it slowly onto something else in the pot (meat, for instance). It warms slightly as it dribbles through the meat down onto the pot, and then as I add more the entire pot bottom cools, more or less evenly. Does that help?

That was interesting and enlightening. What was even more enlightening for me, however, was in the next paragraph: "While this step [that is, heating the paprika] is crucial to releasing the flavor, be cautious:The high amount of sugar in paprika can quickly burn and turn bitter. This step takes less than 20 seconds." At last I know what's been going wrong with some of my paprika-laden dishes. Great article, Ron. Thanks indeed.

ChefCrash, that is a fabulous post. Thank you so much for giving us the tour! It's interesting to see how much the landscape looks like certain parts of Central California. I shouldn't really be surprised; they're both Mediterranean climates. I do have one small correction to make, with apologies for contradicting anything in such a fine piece of work. Green olives and black olives CAN come from the same tree, depending on how they're processed. That is at least true for the olives grown in California and processed with the common local lye/brine method. For instance: Lindsay Ripe Olives come in both a Green Ripe and Black Ripe style; they taste much the same; they come from the same trees and are both, as the name implies, picked when ripe. The difference is in whether a particular chemical (ferric compound, if I recall correctly) is added during the cure. I won't venture to guess whether there are other olive processing methods that change the color like that. Question: why did the soil have to be tilled around the trees? Was that for weed control?

Is there something special that differentiates a grove from some other type of stand of olive trees? I ask that because I thought that a lot of olives were grown in California. Is that untrue? ← Thank you for the lesson on US olive production and the clue on terminology. So what is the proper term to refer to a stand of olive trees? I used "grove" from the similarity I imagined with citrus fruit trees, stands of which (well, mainly oranges, but I think lemons and grapefruit too) are called "groves". ← We generally called it an "olive grove", but "olive orchard" is also heard, and correct. Same for citrus or any other stand of fruit or nut trees. While "grove" can be any stand of trees, "orchard" specifies that the trees are cultivated for a fruit or nut crop. We tended to refer to the "orange grove" and "peach orchard" but I think that's mostly because the opposites ("orange orchard" and "peach grove") don't trip off the tongue quite as easily.

Who says you have to give up the old copy? I'll be there are a lot of people around here with both versions.

Hmm. So all these years I've been squeezing extra lemons to get enough juice to cover the batch from the start...and that step was unnecessary? That would certainly save on lemons.

Really? I don't think of cast iron or enamel as good conductors of heat, as, for example copper or aluminum. There is a tremendous difference in the reaction of copper to a heat source, compared to LC. ← You're right about the heat conduction; cast iron isn't a good conductor. It is, however, a terrific heat reservoir. Once you get the stuff hot, it holds the heat well. Don't want to hijack this topic, but it you look here (and click on the links), you'll find that not everyone found those smooth cooktops to be so easy to clean. ← The cleaning issue is one of the reasons I stopped looking at glass-topped stoves. But aside from that, I have to echo pigeonpie's question above: why couldn't you use Le Creuset on one of them? Le Creuset is magnetic, so it will work with induction. Is it a concern of scratching or breaking the top? Is it the size limitation? (Most glass-topped stoves can't handle very large pots like canning kettles without damaging the non-burner glass, so a large oval LC might be too big along its long axis.) Otherwise, you may be short-changing yourself on the cooktop. If you really want one of those things.

Just to make it clear, the tagine is intended for stovetop cooking, as Andie demonstrated, not for oven cooking. I'm sure it can work in the oven, but that conical top is useless then: it can't act in its intended rôle as a cooling tower, and it takes up a huge amount of space in the oven. The more I work with my tagine, the more versatile and forgiving I find it to be. I'm getting bolder about adding liquids at the right stage. I must confess that the other night I heard a POP and thought, "uh-oh, I overdid it". However, I couldn't find any cracks, and as the cooking continued without leaks or sudden spurts from the bottom of the pan, I began to wonder just what I'd really heard. The next day I discovered the remains of the ceramic picture frame that had fallen from the mantle onto the hearth, no doubt helped by the cats. It must have seemed like a very satisfying crash to them.

Yeah, but after you got over the surprise, didn't they taste good?

Based on your description, those might have been Blenheims I grew up with. Does that sound right for the San Joaquin Valley? I remember melting dripping golden fruits, juice running down my arms, almost too rich and sweet to eat more than one. If you were careful, you could split one open in your hands just by pulling gently. They didn't seem small to me, but I dimly recall being surprised at the size of apricots in the store a few years ago, so maybe they were small by today's standards. They were backyard pets, not commercially grown. I don't know my apricots very well, but I sure remember those, whatever they were. You're right about cherries. They travel well and can be gotten in good condition from grocery stores. The oddballs - sweet dark cherries, and tart pie cherries - are available here if someone makes a run to Michigan, but in the meantime I gorge on Bings. I have been ecstatic to find really good nectarines, and occasionally great peaches, in the local supermarket at the height of the season. The problem with those is that each variety apparently comes ripe in about a 2-week stretch, and then you're on to the next variety. That's hard for shipping things across country. I've only found one grocer in Duluth who gets it right. Whether that's thanks to the purchaser or the distributor is another question, but they get a lot of my money in the summer.

Hmm. I'm having a lot of fun comparing my Le Creuset French oven (not Dutch, of course, because it's LC and oval, but that's just nitpicking ) and my Moroccan tagine and various Egyptian clay pots that I've acquired. I think the clay coddles the food somehow and gives the dish a special flavor. It certainly helps the meat become tender. I'm not sure I can categorically state that the meat becomes *more* tender with the clay, but I'm also not ready to say it doesn't. I have some experiments in mind. Right now I'm messing with various clay cures and getting ready to post about that. The one thing I am prepared to take a stand on is that you need a pot that's slow to react to heat changes to get the best in your slow cookery. Heavy cast iron, good. Clay, good. I seem to recall being pleasantly surprised at what my Corning Ware did last year, but I haven't repeated the experiment. My beautiful shiny All-Clad braiser, well, it looks good hanging on my wall. If your dutch oven is heavy and retains heat well I think you're most of the way there. Tell you what: I'd be delighted to do a side-by-side comparison, if I can, of some braised dish you especially like, and report back on the results. There are probably some other folks who'd be pleased to join in, some with more experience than I at this sort of thing. Maybe we can get a cook-off going. Got any requests?

ObThreadDrift: yeah, what's up with the apricots? I've given up buying them in grocery stores, ever. I think good ones must still exist, but I haven't even been able to find them at fruit stands. Did someone yank out all the trees and plant a new cultivar - or regraft everything? That seems so unlikely; I've suspected that they're just picked too soon for shipping, but haven't been able to find out.

In central California, around Visalia area, you can get succulent, drip-down-your-chin, juicy, fragrant strawberries from the local farmers. I think it's the Hmong who've opened up new fields, but I might be wrong about which immigrant group to thank. I was amazed to see them still in business late last fall; apparently there are new varieties that can be planted that late in the season and will still come to fruit AND are just as they're supposed to be. They're deep beautiful red through and through. They're bigger than wild strawberries but smaller than the supermarket berries. They are a testament that good berries are alive and well if you live in the right area. I doubt they are unique to Visalia. They still don't travel, and they still don't last more than a few days after they come ripe. I hand-carried a flat or two back, and even the slight jarring that came with my tender loving care squashed a few. Shippers could never put up with that. I enjoyed them immensely. Some years ago the strawberries were particularly fabulous, even for ripe local berries, and my mother paid a fortune to have a flat shipped out to me, over Dad's objections. The shipper was less than careful with the booty. When the berries arrived, some had escaped their baskets and gotten mixed in with the packing peanuts; others had gotten mashed in some airline drop-kick maneuver. The box was stained with berry juice. Still, the surviving berries were wonderful and flavorful. That remains one of my all-time favorite birthday presents, partly for the whimsy, partly for the flavor, but most of all for the love it showed.

I can already see arguments with the equipment. "No, confounditall, I want *blackened* fish!"

Well said, Russ. Thanks for getting up on that soapbox again. This is very well stated. I confess to a bit of hypocrisy on this issue, since a number of items I routinely buy (lemons, for instance) are never in season up here, and I certainly take advantage of produce shipping so I don't have to subsist on potatoes and fruit preserves all the long winter. I draw the line at subquality produce, however, to the extent that I know the difference. (I'm told by a friend in Africa that I've never had a truly ripe banana, so I won't claim to know the difference in every case.)

U.E, if you have the space, I'd advocate freezing the fruits rather than drying them. I don't have a dehydrator, so maybe I'm selling the method short, but I've found I much prefer the berries (blueberries, raspberries, cherries) I froze during the best part of the season to the equivalent in dried form. Well...except possibly for the cherries. Dried tart cherries are a real treat eaten out of hand, and they seem to work better in baked goods than the frozen ones. I'd prefer the frozen ones for a pie, though. For freezing: I wash (gently) the blueberries or raspberries, spread them out on a towel to let them dry somewhat, then spread them on a tray and put that in the freezer. When they're well frozen, I load them into a freezer storage container and they're good to go. I've read many times that you aren't supposed to wash blueberries before freezing them. I disagree. I've tried side by side tastings and found no deterioration in quality between pre- and post-washed berries. In the meantime it's a real pain to wash frozen berries. They keep freezing the wash water and sticking to each other, making it necessary to keep scattering them apart unless you want to thaw them first. That's messy. With cherries I wash, then pit, then freeze all in a muddled mess, not separated at all.