Adam Balic

Are you joking, have you seen what they use to wear? Now that is funny. Not beer, Talisker.

I 'grew up' in the region near Bendigo. It was maybe an hours drive from home. A scallop in Victoria (state of, Bendigo is a major rural city in it) is a scallop. In NSW (?) it is a potato cake (slice of potato battered and deep fried) as per the North of England. A battered dim sim can be a magical thing. Imagine a fried ball of batter the size of a tennis ball with some processed meat and cabbage at its core. Lived off these at University.

I can translate into American for you. First: The teeth are real, this isn't part of the joke. Second: British people can and will humiliate themselves. This is considered to be extremely funny. Being funny in Britian is the wry acceptance that you realise that you are a bigger idiot then other people suspect. Third: Many very good British comics are not always Jewish, so race is not a clue to funny. Although, people from the West Country are naturally amusing.

My guess is that the Italians and Spaniards were eating tomatoes and peppers before the Aussies were eating dim sum. Maybe before they were eating dim sum in Hong Kong for all I know. For all I know Marco Polo brought dim sum back to Italy where they evolved into ravioli. Hell, I never believed he brought spaghetti back from China. Why would he, they had no tomato sauce. This is nearly satire, well done *Silver Star*.

I can't tell you about your question, but Paula Wolfert's account suggets that it is made, but not very common. RE: Tangia? Tannur? Tandooori? I wrote to and pestered Charles Perry on this topic. He was kind enough to point out that 'Tangia' is most likely named after 'Tangiers'. I am much embarrassed.

As a point of comparison, Dim Sum is also available in many parts of the U.S., but it's authenticity varies more. It's actually not ALL bad here. As far as the sensitivity (over-sensitivity?) of Americans... it's probably true. Then again, we aren't the French. Well, it's not so much being over sensitve, it's that lack of an ability to appreciate satire. Dim Sim are not Dim Sum, they are 'more evolved'. Even the most racist Victorian will eat them as it doesn't occur to them that they are foreign. Commonly known as a 'Dimmy'. Many of them are made of mutton for instance. Original fushion cuisine. Dim Sim history

Nope, wouldn't work: Remember American's have not sense of humour. This is a proven and indisputible fact.

Unusual? We've nothing unusual, it's you septic tanks that have revolting snacks (note: Joke talk). Can only speak for Victoria (State of): Dim Sim = Anglo-bastardised version of Asian dumplings. Chico Roll = similar to above, but sort of a fried veg curry spring roll. Pizza with egg. Meat pie with mushy peas. Tim Tams = King of chocolate biscuits. Pickled sheep lips. Polly Waffle = marshmallow wafer chocolate bar Violet Crumble = honey comb chocolate bar. eh, must be more.

Well I think that we can all agree that it matters not one jot about the discussion with me, but it does matter a great deal that you gave us this amazingly excellent story and explantation . 'Course I love this stuff, so I am easily won. The big N was from Corsia correct? Famous for its bread trees and short people yes? Also, traded a lot with Catalans, who are famous for their 'Sea and Mountain dishes' including chicken with shrimp/crayfish. Corsicans picked up the recipe, obviously. I reckon that the big N was craving a little bit of home cooking asked for this dish to be made at one point, not pre-Marengo, but later it was "attached" as per your explanation. Obviously this is all rubbish, but I bet that with a little research I could develope a brilliant fake-history, which is most of history I guess.

Just found one possible origin of "pie" as the gaelic "pighe" which is an earthen pot. So pie could be terrine. What fun!

Wait! Wait! This has been bugging me, and finally I realized why - because I have the answer right here on my shelves: the 1873 edition of Littré. If that ain't French etymological authority, I don't know what is. So I looks it up, and sure as hell it's unequivocal. To begin with, the first of the 14 possible meanings of the word is Sorte de pâtisserie qui enferme de la chair ou du poisson - that is, "a type of pastry which encloses meat or fish." This in itself certainly implies that the type wrapped in pastry came first. Note that nothing is said about the meat or fish being chopped or cut up at all, let alone to a paste-like consistency; this makes a lot of sense, because the word is bourgeois in derivation and actually (both etymologically and culinarily, if I may so express it) runs much more parallel to the origins of the English "pasty" than to "pastry" or "pie." Haven't hauled out my OED yet, but what do you bet that the origins of the English word are OF or MF. Norman, perhaps. Consider the close kinship betweel Cornwall and Brittany, and the equally close kinship between pâté and "pasty" is unmistakable. (Early pasties, BTW, didn't contain chopped meat either, but large chunks of meat or fish. Sound familiar?) And THEN - after literary/historic citations dating to the 13th century, and after the obligatory blah blah blah about how the word comes from pasté and the 's' evolved into the circonflexe as such things so often do, Littré sayeth: Pasté a la forme d'un participe passé formé de paste, pâte: ce qui a été pasté, fait avec la pâte. That is: "Pasté has the form of a past participle formed from paste or pastry; that which has been pastried, or made with pastry." I don't see where that leaves much room for doubt, do you? BTW sorry if my different modes of emphasis got confusing - there are only so many ways to mark this stuff up.... EDIT: Yes!!!!! OED quoth re "pasty": ME from OF. I knew it! Wheee!!!! :undignified little triumphal dance: So what I said, with more French squiggles though. I am making 16th century chicken pie for dinner right now, do I get to call it a terrine? Is being cooked in a 19th century pie dish (terrine/tureen), thats gotta count right?

Smoked pancetta is common in Italy, especially the northern regions with more Slavic/Germanic influences. The word "Pancetta" is the Italian dimuntive of "Pancia" which means "Belly". Therefore, "Pancetta" is simply cured pork belly, irrespective of smoking or not, the exact methods of curing varing from region to region. Similarly, "Bacon" is the "back and sides of the pig, ‘cured’ by salting, drying, etc. Formerly also the fresh flesh now called pork" (OED). Bacon in the UK also varies a great deal depending on the region or the cure used. Many bacons are un-smoked, but although this may not be obvious in the USA, which seams to have a more restricted range of bacon types. Obviously Pancetta and bacon are not identical as the two terms cover a broad range of product types. But they are very similar and some UK bacon types resemble pancetta more closely then the resemble other UK bacon types.

Funny how true that is, given the promotion of the filth as 'Aussie beer' overseas. I am from Vic. and we mostly drank Cooper's (still remember the old style stubbies before they went all fancy-mid neck), VB, Melbourne Bitter, Cascade and Boags. I may have tasted NSW beer, but can't re-call. Funny how the humour is so Australian specific and they think that 'The Office' is going to work in main stream USA.

Jonathan - I think that if you go back to the origins of the word etc, the there wasn't really a distict "French" or "English" cuisine (although there was regional preferences, balance or sweet v sour and spice proportions etc) and the words usages are very similar. However, over time as French cuisine developed and became increasingly sophisticated and loaded with specific cooking terms, the distinctions became more and more apparent. So while the English pretty much started with pastry/pie and ended with pastry/pie, the French have ended up with this very complicated etymology. What your posts highlight for me is that really should pay more attention to the little squiggles dancing around French letters, especially since my own name has one.

As long as we're talking irrelevant philology: pâte is from the low Latin pasta which means both pasta as we know it today and pastry -- hence pâte feuilletée, puff paste; pâte brisée, short paste; pâtes (plural) are noodles, macaroni, etc. It can also mean a person's constitution, character or temperament: Elle est d'une pâte à vivre cent ans = She's the sort who will live a hundred years; she's built to live a hundred years. pâté, with the accent on the e, means the meat or fish preparation discussed in this thread, either cooked in a pâte or in a terrine. I'm not sure whether the connection is that the pâté was originally cooked in pastry or because of its paste-like consistency, but I suspect that the second explanation is correct. pâté also means an inkstain on a piece of paper and a cluster of houses isolated by roads. And the wet sand children play with on the beach is also called pâté. pâtée (two e's, feminine) is the mash used to feed some farm animals -- "a mixture of foods reduced to a paste (pâte)". Here endeth the lesson. And Trillium, that does look very tasty. Pasta/pate et al. mean "Paste", many terms derive from this root. The distiction of pâte as refering to the consistancy of the filling is interesting and would make sense in the modern usage, but early pâte were simply pies (which has the same latin root) and the fillings were not always a "paste". Also as the pastry shell wasn't eaten originally, it makes sense that the terrine (same root as "Tureen") and pâte would be distinguished by the container, rather then the fillings. From "Le Menagier de Paris", 1393. PASTÉS DE VEAU. Prenez de la rouelle de la cuisse, et convient mettre avec, près d'autant de gresse de beuf; et de ce fait-l'en six bons pastés d'assiette. (VEAL PASTIES. Take the round part of the thigh, and put with it almost as much beef fat; and with this you make six good pasties in platters.) In the same section there is a chicken pie, the chickens are simply sectioned, not made into a paste. Still word usages change, so origins are not the only 'right' answer. Pâte en croute, makes little sense as 'pastry in a crust', the 19th century English "Terrine of pâte de foie gras" makes even less sense as pâte=pastry, so the word now refers to the filling alone.

It all looks great, well done. "Terrine" is derived from 'Terra' as in terracotta etc, and refers to the ceramic dishes they were cooked in. "Pâte" derives from "paste", as they were originally cooked in pastry, basically it means "Pie". This is all largely irrelevant now though.

Alas, I have nothing funny to say about this. From the little I've read from the very amusing Mr. Gill, I doubt he's made much of a positive contribution to culinary criticism and it's a pity this thread didn't take an enlightening tack. Where were the other funny bits?

???? This story line sounds familiar. The movie ET perhaps? I believe it was Reeses Pieces that in fact were used in that movie to entice the extraterrestrial out of the shed in the suburban backyeard. Well done you got it.

We Australians respect the food products from other countries and try not to rip off regional names like Cheddar.

This would be "PondII" otherwise known as the Pacific?

I would guess that the piece is typical Australian self-conscience satirical humour. The author is poking fun at himself and Australia, more then he is being critical of American "snacks". The reason why the snacks aren't researched is because this would defeat the purpose of the article. Obviously some forms of humour don't translate that well. However, peanut butter cups and Reece's Pieces (like Smarties, but evil) are the work of the Devil. If an extraterrestial had ended up in a suburban back yard shed and been exposed to these, then the Earth would have been destroyed for crimes against Galactic Life.* * More Australian humour.

disgusted - one point, none of the people here (certianly not me) are AA Gill, so why direct you angry against us? If I knew of the information that you have, maybe I would agree with you, so could you be more specific? This is an open forum, so why not use to to defend your self against 'glib ignorance' etc, rather then simply venting spleen?

Oh can I apologise on Jamie Oliver's behalf for being so successful in this industry and giving us a great new concept restaurant . He has raised the profile of chefs no end and opened a window into the reality of kitchen life. Take a look in the reflection of that window before you start knocking him. And those are good things it is true. Unfortuately, while he talks about the need for improving British eating habits and kiddies food in particular Britian etc, he promotes exactly the opposite for Sainsburys. A cooked Christmas meal, why bother when you can get ready meals from Sainsburys? I am neither a chef nor a reviewer, so in this regard I value the contributions of both, however this involves being critical. But 'critical' doesn't equal 'negative" As in every aspect of like, there are good things and bad things, nothing is black and white. The same can be said of restuarant reviewers or chefs. I personally think that the good aspects of Jamie et al., are cancelled by the negative aspects, but this is just my opinion. The same thinking could be applied to restuarant critics. In fact, I doubt if Jamie et al. would be very happy about the idea of not getting the type of promotion and exposure that critics provide?

Jay - hey no offense etc, but if it came down to the wire, you would jump into the pit if it meant taking Jamie with you right? I mean, talk about noble sacrifice.

How about we dig a pit and toss the lot in? Place bets on the out come and have few ciders?