robyn

I think more expensive places that rely on corporate expense accounts everywhere will be hurt. Companies are hurting - and excess is OUT - both as a matter of finances and style. I recently read an article that said companies which used to encourage employees to double up on hotel rooms when they were on the road are now encouraging employees to skip hotels altogether and crash with family and friends. At the highest end places - I don't think prices will fall much - if at all. Food isn't getting any cheaper - and it is hard to reduce labor costs without affecting service levels. Places lower down on the totem pole have been and will probably continue to do things like rework menus - substituting cheaper items for more expensive ones - etc. Robyn

I can only speak for myself and my husband. But - on our part - it has nothing to do with money - or putting "dining notches" on our belts. We just can't eat that much food! At least not if you are talking about cuisines which have a lot of rich food. I think your impression of Japan is a little off the mark. I have to say that our most favorite trip/food trip in recent years was to Japan in 2006 - when it did not have a Michelin Guide (so we had to find and use many alternative sources of information in terms of finding places to eat - everything from hotel concierges to web sites). We had lots of somewhat expensive meals (the yen was weak then and just about everything was priced very reasonably) - and lots of not so expensive meals (we were there for 3 weeks so we had a lot of meals). But we never felt stuffed - and actually lost 2-3 pounds each during the trip. Because the food is very light - even the fried food like tempura - the portions are small - and you walk a lot in Japanese cities. I was determined to try at least one of each of the 12 or so major types of Japanese restaurants - many of which are difficult or impossible to find outside Japan - and I think we accomplished that. Although Japan is a bit more discovered now - it is still not a major tourist destination. There is no path - beaten or otherwise - that you have to try to get off of. And - most important - you can eat anything you want anywhere without fear of an unwanted intestinal ailment. We tried lots of strange things at places like the Osaka cherry blossom festival - lots of street food - at about 100 yen ($1) a pop. Didn't care for some of it - but I never worried for a second about eating it. Note also that Japan is very food friendly for people who are vegetarians - people who keep kosher - etc. - etc. It is my idea of food heaven - and I only wish it wasn't such a long trip to get there! Robyn P.S. When Michelin did come out with a guide for Japan - I wasn't surprised to see so many starred restaurants. After all - Tokyo is the largest city in the world - about 35 million people - and it has over 100,000 restaurants. Osaka - a smaller city - has *only* about 6 million people. And - although there is more tourism in Japan these days - most of the tourists are coming from places in Asia - like China. You are well advised to learn a little Japanese before going on a trip there.

It's so disappointing. I'm 25 and I have noticed a lot of my chef friends around my age or younger only want to eat at *** Michelin star restaurants. They seem to think that these restaurants are the be all and end all of food... ← Thank you for confirming my very informal unscientific observations. Like others - I don't know where the money is coming from. Not that young people shouldn't have really fine meals once in a while. We started eating at very high end places in our late 20's. But - even when we were in France - they were special occasions. And the prices were a lot different then (dinner for 2 with modest wine at a 3 star place in France outside Paris might cost $150 or so - the recessionary years of the 70's and early 80's were good for something). But money has never been a major consideration when we travel - the most limiting factor then and now has been our inability to eat large rich meals on a regular basis. Kind of like trying to eat Thanksgiving dinner 5 days in a row - but worse. Robyn

FWIW - I might have mentioned here or in another thread that I found the current format of the Michelin Guide to Paris (which has dozens of listings) much less useful than the old format (which had hundreds). I liked Zagat's a lot better in terms of finding places to eat (mostly lunch) when we were out and about sightseeing and didn't have reservations. Simply because it had a lot more listings. Barbara W - I didn't mind the spartan rooms at L'Esperance. I mentioned them only to indicate that they weren't quite what one would expect in a 3 star place - at least not these days. Of course - back then - a lot of high end restaurants with rooms had somewhat strange rooms. Our room at Troisgros was a hoot. Think slightly run down 1970's Playboy style in purple. The room even had a spiral staircase - not a great feature after a night when one has had perhaps a bit too much wine. BTW - one of the problems with Michelin and 2-3 star restaurants these days is wine. I don't know how much emphasis Michelin puts on wine - but wine is certainly part of its equation. Great restaurants in the past had been around for a long time - accumulating wine at fairly reasonable prices over the course of many years/decades - and winding up with great cellars. It is almost impossible to put together such a cellar today without spending a large fortune (I seem to recall that was one of the problems Loiseau ran into - going heavily into debt to put together a "3 star" wine cellar). Prices of even the nicest dishes and flatware are peanuts compared to the cost of a wine cellar. Since I don't drink wine - except for champagne once in a while - perhaps some of the Michelin "stress" problems could be solved by rating food and wine separately. Robyn

Since this is the France forum - I will restrict myself to our trip to Paris last month - our first in almost 20 years. We dined only at restaurants we had never dined at before (in some instances at least not in their current reincarnations). We had meals at 2 Michelin 3 star restaurants. I can say that Guy Savoy is probably still at the top of his game. Our best meal in Paris - and hard to imagine he could do better. I'm not sure whether L'Ambroisie was at the top of its game. If what we had was it - it is either over the hill - or the 3 stars never made sense. Or perhaps it is - like Julot has mentioned elsewhere - a private club where - if you are not a member - you will never know what it has to offer. OTOH - by way of contrast - we were the only non-regulars in our room when we dined at Guy Savoy - and were made to feel immediately like "members of the club". Very similar to the meal/service we got at Gordon Ramsay RHR when we dined there in 2004. Brilliant. Briffard at the George V was a really good meal. But certainly not more than 2 stars. We dined there at perhaps an unfortunate time. I don't think the transition between Briffard and his predecessor was complete. I have to note though that the service was extraordinary. I'd have to try this place again when the transition between chefs was complete to say anything definitive. Another 2 star was Senderens. This was my second favorite place after Guy Savoy. We had dessert there one night with Julot and wife after dining elsewhere - and a complete meal another night. Really yummy food. I have read a lot about how Senderens has taken his classical 3 star dishes from Lucas Carton (some of which probably came from L'Archestrate) and tried to make them more affordable. IMO (we had dined at both L'Archestrate and Lucas Carton) - his efforts are a great success. Perhaps the most educated of palates can tell the difference between the dishes made with the ridiculously expensive ingredients - and those made with with the lesser ingredients (at 1/3 the cost) - but I can't. IMO - Senderens is still at the top of his game - but he is playing a different game now than he was playing 20 years ago. Senderens has so many moves - maybe he should be a contestant on "Dancing With the Stars" . Robyn

I am not sure I buy this story. I happen to have dined at L'Esperance shortly after it had been awarded its third star for the first time - a very long time ago (when I made my reservation - it had 2 stars). It was a very solid 2 star - although I'm not sure it deserved the 3rd star (I'd say it was a close call). And it was a pretty modest place even after the 3rd star had been awarded. Nothing very fancy. Almost no English/other languages spoken. The "rooms" that went with the restaurant were - shall we say - spartan. Funny - the thing I remember most about our stay was breakfast. Best prunes I have ever had in my whole life. Overall - I wouldn't be (and wasn't) surprised that the restaurant lost the 3rd star - which was a marginal 3rd star IMO. You have to remember that about this time - Robuchon was doing his thing at Jamin - no chains. Senderens was doing L'Archestrate. Etc. Stiff competition. Doesn't mean diners shouldn't have gone to L'Esperance whether it had 3 stars or 2 or 1 or none. It was an excellent place to dine in a geographical area where it was one of the best (if not the best). I was always more inclined to put it in the category of places like the Hotel de France in Auch when Andre Daguin was the chef. Amazingly solid 2 star - with little or no possibilities for 3. Still - worth a detour and an overnight trip IMO. Perhaps the fault lies not in Michelin - but in diners. I used to enjoy going around France to try well-regarded 1 and 2 star restaurants. Knife and fork restaurants too. I was young - and all of it was new to me. Today - many "foodies"- even those in their 20's - wouldn't think of doing anything less than a grand tour of 3 stars only. Just to put notches on their belts and get ammo for their food blogs. So - if it isn't 3 stars - it isn't on their radar screens. And some people who run really good restaurants in out-of-the-way places do whatever they think is necessary to get/retain 3 stars - even if their attempts are misguided. Perhaps restaurants are responding more to diners than to Michelin. So maybe - to paraphrase Shakespeare - "The fault, dear Brutus, lies not in our stars, but in ourselves...”. FWIW - I do think Michelin has its faults. Its primary one IMO is being too slow to pull the trigger in terms of taking away stars from famous restaurants which used to be great - but haven't been for years. Robyn

I've had better luck with eggs with brown shells too. Not sure why. One suggestion for things like deviled eggs (where the original taste of the yolk isn't super important). Most stores - at least the ones where I live - sell peeled hard cooked eggs for about the same price as fresh eggs. And the whites are always perfect. Robyn

I posted this in the wrong section of the forum - but was directed to this thread (I don't read the New York forum because I don't live there - or visit often). Anyway - here is what I wrote in relevant part: "I very much enjoyed [the] op-ed piece in the NYT about take-out delivery people from Chinese restaurants in New York getting sc*****. It is probably a true observation about people who deliver all kinds of the food all over the US. Without getting into politics (OT) - I just want to say that it is important IMO to deal justly with the "working poor" people we meet personally in our lives. Pay decent salaries and give nice bonuses if you employ people. Give good tips. Etc. It is very easy to vote for X who promises who to do Y for people like this - but there is nothing like putting Z dollars directly in their pockets yourself. Keep this in mind as the holiday season approaches. I have to laugh - because one of my most hated things to do during the holiday season is to pass out Christmas gifts to the people who collect our garbage and recycling. Not that I mind the money. I just hate waking up at 7 am and standing outside with a bunch of envelopes in what is pretty cold weather for north Florida. Anyway - for everyone here - get a bunch of tens and twenties and hand them out liberally - to the people who deliver your Chinese food - and those who do similar things for you. Robyn"

Having been in that space - I can't imagine 5 tables seating 2 on the ground floor. Unless the people are all very good friends! Robyn

← I don't think it's a question of browbeating. It's just a heck of a lot easier to eat that way! Perhaps some people don't know that it's an acceptable - in fact the proper - way to eat (I didn't at one time). And when you tell people it's ok - they will be greatly relieved not dropping grains of rice covered with food all over the place. FWIW - I have traditional Chinese rice bowls at home for when I make Chinese food - or do "take-out". Robyn

Both are wine stores serving food. ← Where was the restaurant in the 16th? Didn't seem to be a restaurant in the wine store. Either upstairs - or downstairs. Robyn

The stats for French profits have appeared in other media too - like this article from the New York Times. The Times article also details some of the reasons for the chain's success in France. One of the reasons that I've read about is that some menu items are based on traditional French food - like the Croque McDo. The restaurants are attractive. And the service is fast. Note that we had very good service most of the time in Paris - but not at La Defense. And the business people in the restaurant where we dined got the same miserable service. Very very very slow. Three servers trying to serve perhaps 40 outside tables (it was a nice day and lots of people were dining outside). You would think there was no unemployment in France! Not inexpensive - and the food wasn't good. Now perhaps most workers at La Defense have company cafeterias and the like - but sometimes people might want to go to lunch somewhere else with a few friends who work at other companies in the complex. It is easy to dismiss La Defense in terms of what is available on a culinary basis there - but I've read that 140,000 people work there - and another 30,000 live there - so it is a pretty important part of Paris. Note that we did not in general find service at lunch to be slow - by our standards - in Paris. Even at Guy Savoy - the "lunch regulars" were in and out in about 90 minutes - we took longer because we had more courses. And - at other places - the meals were paced so one could dine in about an hour. At this place in La Defense - we waited more than an hour from the time we sat down until we got our food. Of course - if you want to eat in 30 minutes - not an hour - you'll be hard-pressed to do so in many French restaurants - but we got in and out of some cafes in 30-45 minutes when we ordered simple things. So I don't think it is only an issue of "fast food" versus "slow food". I suspect price - and predictability in terms of the quality of the food - may be more important. What Julot says about people traveling "on the road" is also relevant. And his description of France sounds exactly like the United States. For example - you can drive in the southeast US (where I live) and perhaps stumble on a restaurant that serves good BBQ. But 9 times out of 10 - what you'll get is mediocre or worse. Which is why - unless we happen to know a particular non-chain place that is good when we're driving somewhere - we stick to chains (although McDonald's isn't on our radar screen - we like chains which serve buffets with lots of southern vegetables - places like Waffle House - etc.). Also - if one is traveling with children - there are few places that are friendlier than McDonald's. I think that predictability of the food product will become more and more important as world economies slow. An independent restaurant where business is slow may be tempted to serve things that should be thrown away. Most McDonald's have enough business that they won't do this (and - if they did - the powers that be would probably come down on their heads like a ton of bricks). As for John's comments - Paris is an extremely expensive city for average tourists in many respects. But they can go to museums very cheaply (particularly with museum passes - a 6 day adult pass to all of the best is 60 euros - and kids usually get into museums free). A random meal for 2 in a decent bistro would usually cost us about $50-60. If you're traveling with a couple of kids - make that close to $100. And that is only for lunch. Most people like to eat dinner too . So comparing museums with restaurants isn't a good comparison. I suspect that $50-60 for lunch isn't an inconsequential amount of money for the average person who lives in Paris either. We had a cab driver to CDG who gave us a lengthy discourse about the increased co-pays he was required to pay for himself and his family these days under the French medical system. Those are more than a few dollars that won't show up in his local restaurants. So I don't think it's a question of "psychology". It's money. Tourist money - local money. Dollars - or euros. Just look at the demographics here. We are all mostly older people (like you and me John) - younger couples without children (DINKS) - single people - etc. Not too many 30 or 40-something people with kids asking about nice places to dine. These people especially are being squeezed - and they especially are most likely to wind up dining at less expensive chain restaurants (when they can afford to dine out at all). Just out of curiosity - what is the median family income in France - or Paris (although Paris may be atypical because there are probably more rich people - and more poor people - than in other parts of France - not too many in the middle). BTW - I know more about economics and markets than food. And any data about anything that pre-dates the 4th quarter of 2008 is ancient history IMO. Because that's when world economies started to fall off a cliff (before that they had been perhaps strolling down a hill). I suspect 4th quarter statistics will be very bleak for many industries - including the restaurant industry - whether in France or the US. Robyn

As an aside - we stumbled on a little wine store called Cavesteve. Any relation? Robyn ← Well, there are two, one near the Bastille in the 4th, the other on the rue de Longchamp in the 16th where we were. Both are not so little when you go downstairs for instance. ← We went to the one in the 16th. My husband did go downstairs to pick out some wine - and he said it was pretty big. Good wine too - at reasonable prices. Robyn P.S. Is the wine store the same as the restaurant you mentioned?

March is still high season in south Florida. You are more likely to get deals in shoulder or low season. And who knows what will be going on with the economy 6 months from now? Certainly not me. Robyn

Here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=206...MlN0&refer=home Comments? Robyn Perhaps my description of the topic was simplistic - but I think what the article said is two-fold: 1) A lot of French eating establishments at all levels are in trouble due to the state of the economy; and 2) To a certain extent - when diners are counting their euros - especially for meals like lunch when they're at work - they may well wind up spending their lunch money at places like McDonald's instead of the local cafe. Now obviously the person who might have dinner at his local bistro - but doesn't due to economic conditions - will not wind up at McDonald's. He will just stay home. But at a place like La Defense at lunch - well we saw a lot of fairly empty restaurants - and large numbers of people at McDonald's. Can't say I blame them - because the restaurant we ate at was awful. And - at least at McDonald's - you get a consistent product for a fairly low price (or so I'm told - I don't think I've had a meal at McDonald's more than once or twice in the last 10 years - and that was when we were driving on interstate highways in the United States). The worst kind of dining experience is to pay too much for a mediocre or worse meal. There are two other factors. One mentioned in the Bloomberg article was the smoking ban. I don't think the smoking ban has hit high end dining - but - in a country with so many people who smoke - I suspect it has surely had an impact at the cafe and lower bistro level. I'm a smoker. Why would I go to a cafe to have a drink at the end of the day if I can't have a cigarette with my drink? Simple answer is the only places I went to were those with outside terraces where smoking was allowed. That is ok in early October - but one would have to be a pretty hearty smoker to sit outside in January or February. And a cafe can't do ok if it has little or no business during the winter. Second is the attitude about service. I know what I've read about the French attitude about service in restaurants (and elsewhere). We're really not "serving" you - we are allowing you to be guests in our establishments - etc. There is sometimes quite a thin line between being civil to one's customers - and being surly. And I am sure some restaurants cross over the line (I know we had it happen on more than one occasion). For those of us who live in or have traveled in other countries - especially ones with exceptional levels of service - like Japan - well let's just say that the service ethic can leave something to be desired in terms of some experiences in France. Perhaps even the French are getting tired of getting poor service when they are spending their hard-earned money to dine out or do other things. Anyway - what is going on in France is going on elsewhere these days. Bloomberg just gave it kind of a "French twist". BTW - precarity isn't a word I'd ever heard before - so I looked it up. Here is the definition. It seems to be more of a European concept than an American one. And since politics is beyond the realm of this forum - I won't say what I think about the concept. Robyn

As an aside - we stumbled on a little wine store called Cavesteve. Any relation? Robyn

Since this thread is so long - I mentioned perhaps 3 years ago that if you only want to make red velvet cake once in a while - Duncan Hines makes a very good red velvet cake mix. I'd give it a B+ (as opposed to most recipes - which are C or worse). Note that red velvet cake isn't supposed to be dry or dense. Robyn

We had a very nice trip to Paris - except for the weather (lots of drizzle/rain and even a hail storm) - and the lack of cabs. Regarding dining - we had everything from the ordinary (omelets at a cafe) - to the extraordinary (our lunch at Guy Savoy). Cocktails/wine at sidewalk cafes - and at the George V (FWIW - the martini pour at the George V is about twice as large as at a cafe - so - at 24 euros - it is a very good value). We didn't have a budget - but I don't like to throw money away either. For example - we noticed at some nice - but not high end destination restaurants - that although we could have lunch for perhaps 25 euros or so - it would have been entirely possible to spend more at dinner than one might spend at an excellent 2 star restaurant. So when you dine at a place is sometimes as important - or perhaps even more important - than where you dine. A meal that puts a smile on your face at 25 euros might be disappointing at 75 euros or more. Many places have fixed menus which are exceptional values - both at lunch - and dinner. The 100 euro lunch at Guy Savoy is an example. So is the 130 euro dinner at Le Cinq. So are the many 20 euro menus at lesser places for lunch. It is entirely possible to spend X at a particular restaurant for a particular meal - or 3X. So - particularly if you are on a budget - be prepared to be flexible in terms of what you eat if you would like to eat a notch or two or three (in terms of quality of dining) above what you think you might be able to afford. Some places are just bargains. We spent 283 euros for dinner at Senderens for 2 - including enough decent alcohol to make us tipsy . Chef Senderens has been in the forefront of the movement to lower prices in higher end places - while attempting to make the most minimal sacrifices possible in terms of food quality. And it shows. If he made his langoustines the way he used to at Lucas Carton - they'd probably be 90 euros now - for a starter. Instead - they are 35 euros - and - IMO - every bit as delicious. For me - this was the last part of a trifecta with Chef Senderens - since I have dined at l'Archestrate - and Lucas Carton. And I applaud his efforts - which I think are a great success (and he started with his concept even before the world economy started to deteriorate). If you can't afford dinner - do lunch. There are only a small number of places where lunch isn't much cheaper than dinner - and the quality of the cooking is usually at the same level (although the ingredients used may be cheaper than those at dinner). I am not so experienced with ingredients like truffles and caviar (in fact - I am almost totally inexperienced) that they are necessary to my enjoyment of a meal. I suspect most people are like me. In fact - one of the things I enjoyed most on this trip was a mini Vacherin bought at a cheese store with a great loaf of bread. Absolutely delicious - and only 5 euros or so. This may not be a big deal to people who live in Paris - but it is a big deal to me - since this is food I cannot get in the United States. Finally - with regard to reservations - check - and recheck. Preferably by phone or through the concierge at your hotel. I thought I might dine at l'Arpege and emailed them perhaps 2 months ago or so about a reservation - asking for an email confirmation. I never heard back from the restaurant - and assumed it was full for the evening I requested. Didn't think about it again until I got home. And there - I found 2 phone messages from the restaurant trying to confirm my reservation - and then canceling it for lack of confirmation. Of course - I wasn't there to answer the calls. I was in Paris. I know it is sometimes daunting to call foreign countries. But I found it easier when I wanted to because I enrolled in a Bellsouth phone plane for $5/month - for only a few months - where I could call France for 7 cents a minute. I will never again rely on email to try to make an important reservation. If I think of anything else - I will add it. But - in the meantime - do pack comfortable shoes - because you'll need them! Robyn

No harm done. Had we taken a cab - I would have missed the macaroons from Dalloyau . I will note for the sake of people planning trips that many hotels - restaurants and the like pay cabs so they can call them for you and they will show up. But - at crowded hours - and when the weather is bad - you may wind up with a cab already showing 6-9 euros on the meter when you get in because the cab has been called specially for you and has traveled to where you are from another part of the city. In fact - I was talking with a woman who lived in Paris while we were waiting to change planes at Atlanta - and she personally pays a cab company an annual fee so it will send a cab to her apartment when she calls. IOW - people should be prepared to do a lot of walking (bring very comfortable shoes). And note that I am not a wimp. It's just that after 4-5 hours of walking around sightseeing - when I find yourself 3 miles away from my hotel at 5 pm - I like to be able to get into a cab to get back to the hotel - and I found that impossible almost every day we were in Paris. Robyn

You eat Dolphin in Florida? Where is Carl Hiaasen when you need him? ← The dolphin I am talking about is a fish - not the mammal (it is frequently called mahi-mahi in the US). See this article for an explanation. If you go to the markets in France - you will see that European dorade looks much like our dolphin. Regarding Capital One - I don't know about its fees because I pay my bill when I receive it. So all I can say is it's a good card for someone who is just looking for a way to save (more than) a few dollars on currency transactions. I will note that I put one charge on my AMEX card on the same day that I put a charge on the Capital One card (I split the hotel bill between 2 cards - thinking the entire hotel bill might put me above my Capital One credit limit). Not only did AMEX charge 2% - but its exchange rate was $1.40 while Capital One was $1.36. Quite a difference! AMEX is going to get a piece of my mind tomorrow. Crummy exchange rates and surcharges can easily add hundreds of dollars to a trip - money that is better spent on better things. And alas - I looked through all our credit card bills - and we don't have one for the other brasserie (perhaps it didn't take credit cards). So I will never know the name. No harm done - it wasn't the "food find" of the year - just a decent place to have lunch. Therefore - you will have to poke around yourselves and find some good places on your own. As Julot mentioned in another thread - it is harder to find a cab in Paris than a polar bear in Florida. And - IMO - the Metro - particularly on certain lines - was quite disagreeable - crowded and hot - even on cool days. So poke around in and near the neighborhoods where you are doing your other tourist things. With some exceptions. For example - we walked to the neighborhood of Petit Zinc from the Louvre - about a 15 minute walk - because we didn't like the area around the Louvre (apart from everything else - we ran into the "lost ring" scam outside the Louvre - luckily - we knew enough to walk away fast before someone tried to pick our pockets or worse). FWIW - I looked up the history of Petit Zinc - and the exterior and a lot of the interior are original art nouveau. So the restaurant has architectural interest - as well as good food (even though it is currently part of a small chain of restaurants). Robyn

We dined with Julot - and very much enjoyed the restaurant too. It was quite perfect for our first evening in Paris (when we were very tired - and not up to either a bustling place or high end fine dining). Very comfortable room - cozy and visually appealing - good food - pleasant service. Reasonably priced as well for what the place is - and what we ate and drank - about $85 (not euros) per person. The desserts at Senderens were fabulous - and we enjoyed them not only that evening - but at our subsequent dinner at Senderens. Perhaps our only area of disagreement is he said it was a 10 minute walk from our hotel to the restaurant - and it is not a 10 minute walk as far as I'm concerned. Then again - I am much much older than Julot - and our walk to the restaurant allowed me to buy some macaroons at Dalloyau to enjoy with coffee the next morning - and to window shop on the rue du Faubourg St-Honore on our way to the restaurant. I must say - one of my few regrets about our trip is that there is only so much I can eat in 8 days. So I had to pace myself. Which meant probably eating half of what I would have liked to eat. The other regret is the weather was somewhat bad. We even got caught in a hail storm one afternoon - which I suspect is quite unusual for Paris. Robyn

Thanks for the address John - and - when you gave it to me - I realized Labourdin wasn't the place I was thinking about. Labourdin is a cafe near our hotel where we had a light late afternoon lunch (couple of omelets) the day we arrived in Paris. Good omelets - but not the place I was thinking about. Guess I got confused because the transaction date on the credit card statement was the next day (although the amount of the bill - only $28 - should have tipped me off). And the charge from the other brasserie hasn't yet appeared on the statement - so - unless I find a business card in the pile of travel papers currently sitting on my desk - I will have to wait to find out the name of the place (I assume the place will put the charge through eventually). Also forgot to mention that I had oysters and grilled dorade (which - in the markets - looked like the dolphin we get here in Florida - they must be cousins) at Petit Zinc. One of the fixed menus. My husband had the special fixed menu (19.9 euros including a glass of wine) - which was hot potato soup (maybe with some leeks?) and grilled calf's liver in a nice sauce. The total bill was $59 - and we both enjoyed our meals. I wish I could remember the name of the other brasserie because I had rougets on a bed of braised spinach - and they were - unfortunately - better than those at l'Ambroisie. Anyway - when I get the bill - I'll give you the name of the place. BTW - the credit card I used was a new one I got from Capital One (a No Hassle Rewards Card) before our trip. Reason I got it is because it is just about the only national Visa card left in the US (Visa is almost universally accepted in Europe) that doesn't charge a currency exchange fee (most cards are charging 2-3% and some even 4% these days). In looking at the charges coming in - I noticed that the exchange rates were also pretty good (I chart spot exchange rates on a daily basis). I realize this is totally off-topic. But the amount of money you can save using a credit card like this on a trip to France can easily pay for an extra meal at a nice place. No reason to feed your credit card company when you can feed yourself instead! Robyn

We stumbled into these places for lunch on 2 sightseeing days. Petit Zinc is fairly well known. Labourdine apparently is not. In fact - I couldn't even remember where it was until I looked at my credit card bill (it's in the 8th). We still had a lot of jet lag when we ate there. Does anyone know the address (I looked it up and couldn't find it)? We thought both were quite good - and reasonably priced. Neither is worth a journey - even from another section of Paris - but they are both worth a 10 minute detour if you're in the neighborhood. Of special note is the interior of Petit Zinc - very nice art nouveau. Robyn

I love bread and cheese - but am usually quite full when it arrives as a 3rd or 4th course for dinner. When we went to the Pompidou on a Sunday - we were looking for a place to eat lunch - but many promising looking places were closed. OTOH - there were some great looking food stores on a street a couple of blocks away. A place that sold bread and desserts called Pain de Sucre. A lovely cheese store across the street. Some great fruit a couple of stores down. We bought a loaf of the bread of Marais - a beautiful dessert - some fruit - and - something I had never seen before - a "mini" Vacherin (which turned out to be fabulous). A veritable feast. Now - where to eat it on this rainy day? We went into the museum - and there was no place to sit down except the cafe. Which had big warnings against doing a picnic in the cafe. I am usually a law-abiding person. But on this day - with this feast - I broke the law. We bought some drinks at the cafe - and then surreptitiously ate our "picnic" (I kept it hidden under my jacket between servings). It is a good thing we were somewhat secretive - because one woman did spread out a picnic - and was promptly thrown out of the cafe. We couldn't possibly eat everything - but the solution to our leftovers appeared. A man and woman - apparently homeless - appeared in the cafe (this was a free museum day) and they were looking for food on the trays that hadn't been cleared (quite sad - but that is what they were doing). We wrapped our leftovers - gave them to these people - and they walked off with a nice little bag from Pain de Sucre. I hope they enjoy Vacherin! I do recommend this area for buying food - but perhaps there is a better way/place to eat it. Robyn

We dined at many different levels of restaurants in Paris. I do not recommend the Drouant outpost at the auto show - or the place we ate at in La Defense (everyone here was right - the food/service at La Defense is terrible) - but every place elsewhere was fine (although once or twice not up to expected standards). We dined at 2 two star restaurants - Le Cinq and Senderens. My husband and I were trying to decide which was better. We went course by course - and decided it was basically a tie (some courses were better at one - some better at the other). No question both are up to 2 star standards in terms of food - service - and ambience - and we enjoyed both meals a lot. Le Cinq is by far the more opulent of the 2 in terms of decor - and dinner was about 450 euros. One reason was our wine selections - and the presence of a champagne trolley (I am always a sucker for a champagne trolley). Senderens was a touch under 300 euros - seemingly a better buy - but I think a lot of the price difference had to do with what we drank - and how much we ate. Note that Senderens looks a lot better in person than it does in the publicity photos - which make it look like a weird spaceship. The designers did a good job of integrating some modern design into the old Lucas Carton space. But - unlike Le Cinq - where every table is very nice - Senderens has some "mother-in-law" tables on the way to the bathrooms which one should try to avoid. I actually enjoyed our meal at Senderens better than prior meals at l'Archestrate and Lucas Carton. It was just a more inviting friendlier place to dine than its ancestors. A suggestion for each restaurant. At Lucas Carton - ask for Pierre Jung - the Maitre d'. He is quite excellent - and will help to guide you through the menu. When we left - he asked us to send our friends over for dinner. So feel free to mention my name if you make a reservation . At Le Cinq - we had the fixed price menu - and found that the restaurant was flexible in terms of substituting some courses (like the cheese trolley for the cheese course - which didn't appeal to me). So ask about substitutions if the starter and main courses on the fixed menu appeal to you - but perhaps the cheese and/or dessert courses do not. Another recommendation for Le Cinq. This was the first time we had been at the George V since its renovation a couple of decades ago. The bar is still excellent - but much reduced in size - and ridiculously small for the hotel. It is a wonderful place to have a cocktail before dinner - but do make a separate reservation for the bar if you plan to have a drink there and would like to be seated in a nice area. The martinis are 24 euros - but they are worth it compared to other places which charge perhaps a few euros less (great pours with nice little snacks on the side). I have left out all the specific courses we had because all people are different in terms of what they like/dislike. And also - because in the case of Le Cinq - the menu changed on 10/8 from the summer to the fall menu. So if you dine there now - your choices will be totally different than ours were. Finally - I have seen some questions here about dress in higher end restaurants in Paris. Paris is a big city - and people tend to dress formally. Suits and ties for men are the norm. Similar dress for women. Unless you are a movie star or model (under 40 - over 6 feet tall - and can carry less dressy outfits with a great deal of style) - wear traditional business clothing. Anyway - I don't think you will be disappointed with either of these restaurants unless you are looking for a dish "cooked" with liquid nitrogen . Robyn