robyn

Just when I said I hadn't read an article about tariffs in years - one appears in each of my 3 morning papers . Robyn

If you're a pariah - you have company. I cook my greens for one hour (per the recipe in Bill Neal's Southern Cooking - I may not be an expert but Bill Neal was). BTW - since collards are cheap and plentiful this time of year - no reason one can't toss those outside leaves which resemble shoe leather. Robyn

I've found that with a single crust pie - the crust isn't super-important - and that Mrs. Smith's is better than I can make in my usually too warm kitchen. As for that pecan pie - my favorite is pecan pie on the bottom - with sweet potato pie on the top. They really complement one another. Have a recipe if you're interested. Robyn

Not that I've ever been to. And remember that the traffic down to Naples is quite horrible. Only thing that's don't miss in the area as far as I'm concerned is the Edison Museum in Fort Myers (it's really fascinating). Robyn

The issue of shrimp farming being political is very much on-topic, and I would urge us to keep it that way. Limiting it to a debate of cheap vs. expensive completely ignores some of the economic, social and political factors and variables that influence that price. So far we've mentioned World Bank, IMF, free trade, market price and the difference between capitalist and socialist economies as possible explanations for this but there may also be others. I think in doing that with the shrimp trade it prevents you from rationalizing this debate as follows (and I apologize in advance Robyn, because I don't wish to be seen as ganging up on you): Agreed. It's nice, but it's unrealistic, and not at all reflective of the actual cost of the good. If only for a second let's put the shrimp debate aside and talk about bananas, also heavily commodified and subject to these same market fluctuations. Here's an interesting graphical breakdown of the cost of bananas: A bar graph of production costs (taking into account that, at the moment, the wholesale price of a 43 pound box of Ecuadorian bananas is $2.90 USD): I couldn't find the same data for Shrimping but would suspect the lessons to be the same....that is, we aren't paying the full price of the thing because so many "costs" aren't accounted for. And about 5% of what we pay ends up in the hands of the producers. Let's go back to Shrimp then, shall we? Well, if you're a supporter of free trade I'd think you'd be ok with the death of US shrimpers. It's a matter of efficiency, and shrimp farms (rather than the trawling that occurs domestically) maintain a reliable volume, with lower labour costs and higher economies of scale. Of course the protectionist antidumping laws could also kick in and help prop up an industry that's a victim of these same "market economy joys" many speak so highly of. But wouldn't that be contradictory? This isn't a question of trust one bit. I'd love to think Vietnam could make their own decisions around secure livelihoods. But when they rely on a very fickle U.S. economy for the bulk of their revenue in that sector, then it's just not the case. Unfortunately the fickle nature does not include our demand for shrimp, or our willingness to absorb a fluctuation in price that actually DOES reflect changes in the propducing country. So begins a long rant on the dangers of a market economy that I'll put aside, but I would invite your comments about what I've posted here. Some of the sources for the graphs and such: www.newint.org www.foodfirst.org UN FAO (Food & Ag. Association) http://www.mises.org - Article on The Fallacies of Shrimp Protectionism ← The forum policy disfavors political discussions - and I hate to write long messages which get 86'd because they're too political. So I will try to stay as non-political as possible. I don't think a comparison of bananas and shrimp is quite on point. Because we don't have a domestic banana industry (except for some specialty stuff in south Florida) - and we do have a domestic shrimp industry. And that shrimp industry is diverse. I'm not sure that shrimpers in Maine have much in common with shrimpers in Florida. Perhaps they all want to impose prohibitive tariffs against non-US shrimp - but I can't recall reading many - or any - articles about that in the local papers in recent years. What I have read tons about is gripes about net rules (you know - the rules that are supposed to protect things like sea turtles). I don't purport to have a complete understanding of the economics of domestic shrimp trawling - but - if I had to guess - the thing that would most likely kill domestic shrimp trawling is net rules - not imported shrimp. Now the people who love turtles more than shrimp are probably thrilled with shrimp farms - no matter where they are - because no one ever killed a turtle harvesting a farmed shrimp. And I suppose that's a defensible point of view (although it's not my point of view). On my part - my only strong feeling is we shouldn't force our domestic producers to comply with some rules (like certain environmental rules) and then allow non-US producers to export things to us when they don't have to play by the same rules. If our shrimpers have to use TEDs (turtle-exclusion devices) - we shouldn't allow shrimp from elsewhere that have been caught without TEDs. It's not a level playing field. But my understanding is we don't allow imports of trawled shrimp caught without TEDs. Which is perhaps why farming shrimp (particularly overseas) is an attractive alternative to trawling. But you can see how it gets complicated - particularly for turtle-lovers. Robyn

I don't know about wholesale prices here - but our shrimp must be running like crazy. This week - you can find fresh 16-20 local Mayport shrimp (head/legs on) in the stores for $7.99 pound - frozen 16-20 Key West Pinks (headless) for $11.99/pound. How does that correspond with the wholesale prices you're looking at? Robyn

If they were really *that* good - even frozen and out of season - there would be a market for them outside of Maine as a "gourmet" item. Perhaps not in Florida or other states which have plenty of local shrimp - but elsewhere. Robyn

This is one of the best websites I've found about GMOs. It's the Genetically Engineered Organisms Public Issues Education Project sponsored by the Cornell Cooperative Extensive (the Aggies). Since Cornellians tend to be liberal - and Aggies tend to be conservative - I think this project calls it right down the middle . I've heard a speaker from the project before - and he was excellent. Surprised me how much people talk about GMOs from a political point of view without knowing anything about them from a scientific point of view (myself included). Robyn

No one has defined what's meant by "hispanic" food. As far as I'm concerned - Cuban food has about as much in common with Mexican food as it does with Chinese food. Robyn

I admit that Florida usually isn't as cold as Ohio - but the last few times I've been - it's been kind of cold. Of course - I usually plan my trips around winter shelling at the solstice (which involves going out on the mud flats at about 5 am with a flashlight). Come to think of it - that's about now - and we're going to be a bit chilly here in Florida early this week. Robyn

I don't think the word "pristine" is the right word - but I know what you mean. And I've never had a meal like that in North America - only in Europe. My husband and I have a phrase for it - "the food sings" (and the atmosphere and the service simply enhance the song). Robyn

It was on one of the national news programs last night. The gist is that the middle class in China is expanding by leaps and bounds - and the members of that middle class all want to do a new-fangled thing - go out to dinner. To relax - impress their friends - etc. The restaurants which are being opened to accommodate the diners come in various sizes - big - huge and colossal! And a few are chains. The piece focused on one of the chains where the restaurants were huge (hundreds of diners) - and then it pointed out that you ain't seen nothing yet (i.e., the 4000 seat restaurant). The piece didn't discuss the quality of the food - but no matter what it is - I suspect that it's better than I can get in Jacksonville . I've been reading about Asia lately. I suspect a lot of the cities there are more crowded than I'm used to. I saw a piece about smoking in Toyko. It's prohibited on more than a few streets because the streets are so crowded that it's almost impossible to smoke without burning other people who are walking on the same street! Robyn

We're frequent visitors. I'll note that the best time to visit in general IMO is between Thanksgiving and Christmas. Rates are low - the weather is good - the bugs aren't awful - the shelling is excellent (particularly during the winter solstice) - and the half of Ohio that visits between Christmas and April hasn't arrived yet . Robyn

I don't think that statement is a universal truth. And - in my experience - in great places - it's more the exception than the general rule. As for those places where it is the truth (and I've had the bad luck to dine in a few of those places) - well those places simply aren't great places. We're talking for the most part here about "destination restaurants" - and if the only people those places treat well are a small percentage of customers - well they shouldn't be in anyone's book of "destinations". If a high-class chef doesn't want to treat all of his customers very well - he should open a catering service instead of a restaurant. Robyn

I think politics may be getting in the way of reality here. In another thread - I mentioned a news article last night about huge restaurants in China. The main thrust of the article was that there were so many more people in China with middle-class incomes than there used to be that dozens of these mega-restaurants were opening to meet local demand for a relatively new-fangled thing for most people - "eating out". Does middle class in China mean what it means in the US? No. But it means that a lot of people are living a lot better than 30 years ago. And that means mom doesn't have to/want to sit home stirring stuff in a pot over a wood-burning fire for hours night after night. That's a National Geographic view of the world (everything primitive is better). I'm sure mom enjoys her new clothes - and the opportunity to have someone else wait on her - even if the food she's eating isn't just like grandma used to make. For what it's worth - I find the National Geographic view of the world somewhat patronizing. And I think there are a whole lot of people in China who prefer GM golden rice to famine. To me - the sin is when snotty Europeans try to convince starving Africans that it's better to do things the old way than to try GM crops so people won't starve. I appreciate fine hand-crafted food. And - being upper-middle class - I can afford to make it at home - or buy it at restaurants (I have both time and money). Most people in the world don't have that luxury - and I think it would be presumptuous of me to impose my preferences on them. Robyn

I think it's a good website. I want to know if a restaurant where I might spend a lot of money is screwing its employees. To give you a similar example - we went to a high end hotel on the west coast of Florida for a weekend. Right after Hurricane Ivan had departed. Business was horrible (hotel had 30% occupancy and most of those people were insurance adjusters and FEMA people doing Hurricane Charley work in the Port Charlotte area). Several employees told us that the hotel was having them come in in the morning - and then having them leave at 10 am or 11 am if there wasn't anything for them to do. Paying them by the hour (so what they were paid barely paid for their gas). I was still paying over $200/night for a room in lowest season. So I was not amused. At the other extreme - the Breakers in Palm Beach continued to pay all its employees during the weeks it had to close after Hurricane Jeanne. How do I know this? I'm on the hotel email list. I sent back email to management - "Thank you for taking care of the people who take care of us." So guess which hotel I'll continue to patronize? And I won't mind paying a few bucks more - because it's expensive to close a hotel down - even for a few weeks. Anyway - that's my point of view as a customer (and I especially hate businesses that go under and steal employees' money by not paying FICA/income taxes that have been withheld to the government). Robyn

Good review. As someone who visits New York perhaps once a year - and likes to eat - I think your reviews are more interesting than Frank Bruni's these days. I'm glad that you're someone who paces a meal and leaves room to eat and critique dessert (I can't eat as much as a large guy - but I love dessert(s) and always leave room for them). By the way - there's nothing wrong with drinking champagne throughout a meal if you don't want to drink still wine (for whatever reason). I do it all the time . Robyn

Save room for the dessert trolley (I assume they still have it). It's a knockoff of the one at ADNY - chocolates/candies/cookies and the like - but anything like that makes me feel like a kid in a candy store. Robyn

Hi Ellen - Enjoyed your photoessay. My husband and I plan to do a less adventurous first trip to Asia in 2005. About a month - maybe 6 weeks. Just the highlights. Big cities (when you live in Jacksonville FL it's nice to get to big cities ). In terms of countries - Japan - China - India - Korea are musts. The theme of the trip is Asia - the continent of the 21st century. We are interested in seeing places that will prove or disprove this thesis. Places of the present and the future - not the past (museums are nice - but they highlight the past - I'd rather see the Chinese restaurant which was on the national news last night - which seats 4000 people - couldn't believe it when I saw it). I take it you've traveled extensively (or at least more than I have) in this area - and wonder which cities would be on your "must see" list if you were planning such a trip (even if they're cities you wanted to see - but had to skip due to time limitations). Robyn

Don't you trust the people in Vietnam to do what's best for them (assuming that's where you're talking about in terms of shrimp)? Perhaps the people in that country should be able to choose for themselves whether a major domestic industry will be farmed fish production or something more pernicious (like the sex trade in young children in certain Asia countries). Is your primary goal to protect the mangroves in Asia - or the good old boy shrimpers in the Gulf Coast of the US? Robyn

I'm not sure I understand what you're talking about. Shrimp farms in the US - or somewhere else? The shrimp that come from where I live aren't farmed. So what area(s) of the world are you talking about? Robyn

Well what should people eat? Perhaps we're eating more salmon in the US now than we used to because it's $4.99/pound instead of $14.99/pound - but there are worse things than eating salmon. Note that I'm not advocating overeating. It's just nice to have relatively cheap ingredients available. At the opposite end of the spectrum is a country like Norway - where ingredients are ridiculously expensive. I can understand the political decisions which make food expensive in Norway - but it's not something I'd like to see the US emulate (and it doesn't have to). And cotton is the cheapest part of underwear (or any type of clothing). Labor's the most expensive part of clothing (unless you're talking about royalties to Michael Jordan for Nike sneakers). People can debate about standards of living. I'm sure there are lots of people in all first world countries who think they enjoy good standards of living - and some who don't. Since political debate isn't the subject of this website - I'll leave the issue of who's right - and who's wrong - to another place. Robyn

There was a front page article in the NYT Escapes section about Sanibel/Captiva last week. At least judging from the picture in the article - the place looks pretty crummy. Of course - the area where I lived in Miami looked crummy for years after Hurricane Andrew. I'd check and make sure what's open - and what's not. Robyn

The pictures look ok to me. You mentioned that the lamb sweetbreads were gummy and gamey. I've only had lamb sweetbreads once before too (in London earlier this year). They weren't gummy - and they weren't gamey. They were delicious. Wonder if anyone here who knows more about them than I do could comment on whether the difference would be due to the raw ingredient - the cooking technique - or a combination of both. Robyn

It's more expensive to live in and operate a shrimp fleet in the northeast US than northeast Florida. So should our shrimpers be prohibited from selling their catch for less than shrimpers in the northeast? Also - unless you happen to live on or very near a coastal area where there's a shrimp fleet - the chances of your getting fresh shrimp are none. And if you could get them - you wouldn't want them. Here in the Jacksonville area of Florida - we get fresh Mayport shrimp (from Jacksonville). But the shrimp from south Florida and the Keys are frozen (and - if they weren't frozen - they'd be half rotten by the time they got to us). And who the heck wants to pay anything for 36-40+ shrimp? I don't. Not when I can get 16-20 fresh Mayport shrimp retail at Publix for $10/pound. Robyn