robyn

Well - the issue isn't whether you can get a small pig anywhere (I'm sure I could find one here if I tried) - it's whether you can get one where you live. If you tell us where you live - perhaps some people who live in your general area can give you some ideas where to look. I found this easy recipe for you to use if you find the pig. Note that on my part - I wouldn't cook something large on a BBQ the first time I was cooking it. I'd use an oven (where it's much easier to control the cooking temp and keep an eye on things). Once I'd mastered the oven method - I might try the BBQ - although I doubt it in the case of a pig which takes about 4-5 hours to cook. Robyn

Another alternative is having the person who sells directly to the consumer (the retailer or restaurant) being strictly liable for any defects in the food (that's pretty much what we have in Florida). The retailer or restaurant can seek indemnity from the supplier - but it bears the risk of an uncollectible judgment. Robyn

My client bought sugar in railroad tanker cars. It wasn't exactly a "ma and pa" business . He asked to be sent to Atlanta - all his friend were there. Robyn

Funny you should mention that. I cooked a Charlie Trotter recipe last night - Duck Salad with Cheese Toasts and Port-Currant Sauce. It is a relatively easy recipe (although the sauce takes a fair amount of time) - and it always comes out terrific. My husband calls it 4 stars - but he's probably just angling for me to make it again . But assume that it is 4 stars. I serve the salad as "dinner". It's a starter at Charlie Trotter's - I'd have to cook for another 3 days to make it part of a real dinner. Assuming I had some great veal stock on my stove (which I usually don't) and similar ingredients that are staples in world class kitchens. Without the veal stock - well maybe I should start now for a meal in December . And even assuming I could turn out all these dishes (a really huge assumption) - I couldn't imagine getting them all done in the right sequence at the right times. Not to mention the cost factor. This recipe calls for simmering down a whole bottle of port to almost nothing. Throw in the duck breast and the other ingredients - and the salad for 2 costs over $35. I suspect Charlie Trotter has a cheaper way to buy ingredients than I do. By the way - I'm a decent cook. I'm doing a multi-course Thanksgiving dinner for 15. And everything will be cooked from just about scratch - but I am relying on a lot of relatively simple do-ahead recipes (they may take a while to prepare - but I don't have to make veal stock). If my guests want a Charlie Trotter Thanksgiving - they'll have to go to Charlie Trotter's! Robyn P.S. I'm glad it was a 1 course meal - because I burned 2 of my fingers in the duck fat. If that happened at a restaurant - there'd be someone to help you out. I don't have backup like that at home (my husband's the mis en place and cleanup guy).

Along the same lines - Wolfgang Puck cooked on the line in an aircraft carrier kitchen a while back. They had a mini-series about it - perhaps on CNBC. After his "tour of duty" was over - he cooked a special dinner for all of the officers. From the looks of what I saw on TV - a good time was had by all. Robyn

And it would have to be regional, because at least in the Midwest and Northeast it's still my impression that more places send out butter than not (although, yeah, it's usually crap in little plastic packs). BTW: oleomargarine is hardly "new fangled" as one person has said their family believed. It's been around since 1870. ← My recollection (not personal - from reading) is that margarine became more popular in general during WWII as a result of butter rationing. My husband said his family - a "butter" family from the northeast - used margarine during WWII and for a while after. Then came the health claims of the 50's - etc. My family - as well as a lot of other Jewish families - used margarine to keep Kosher - or a semblance of Kosher. Robyn

The full name for margarine is oleomargarine. Robyn

I don't know who did fried green tomatoes first - but this is the place that made them famous. I've been there. It's not worth a detour. Robyn

Valid suggestion and I could have. But I'm still wondering why all these these places take such great pride in their biscuits and their breakfasts and then serve them with non-butter. Portion control butter is available, so it's got to be either to save money or that's what people have come to prefer. ← Margarine was cheap. Lots of folks in the south were poor (or thrifty). And people got used to eating the stuff. It's just the way they eat. Chances are if you ask for butter in a "real" southern restaurant (not a white tablecloth place) - they won't have any. BTW - we used to have a "New York" style deli here. The southern people liked pastrami cold on white bread with mayo. Because that's the way they eat. When I absent-mindedly ordered a pastrami sandwich one day - without giving any particulars - that's the way I got it. Robyn

You might take out a short term subscription to a legal search engine and look for court cases for some background. I once had a client who was charged with "moonshining" on a rather large scale. I recall that he pled guilty and served 5 years in the Atlanta federal prison. Robyn

They aren't. The larger a chicken is - the more flavorful it is. But the larger chickens aren't as tender. You should pick a chicken on the basis of what you plan to do with it. You wouldn't pick the same chicken for BBQ that you would for stew. I think the hardest kind of chicken to find these days is a real stewing chicken. Of course - there are other things that enter in a chicken's flavor that have nothing to do with size. Robyn

You can get anything you want on the internet - assuming you're willing to spend the money. I order cheese on the internet - chocolates - lamb - when I'm in the mood for a big deal. What I am not willing to do is spend a couple of hours making grits (which I make all the time) on a regular basis. IMO - the simple, pure and unadulterated is a bunch of hooey if you're trying to do something like grow tomatoes in Florida. Without pesticides - you're simply raising food for the bugs. And I've read several articles which discuss how this year's hurricanes have scattered a lot of local crop infestations far and wide. We in this country spend a fairly small percentage of our disposable incomes for food because our farming techniques are very advanced in terms of technology. I doubt most people are willing to spend double or triple for their everyday eating to get so-called artisan food on a regular basis. There's a bigger problem with industry groups. We have a product grown here called "ugly tomatoes". They're really tastey. There's a huge fight going on about exporting them to other states because they are - well - ugly. They don't meet the esthetic standards for export tomatoes. The tomato board isn't protecting consumers - it's protecting the established tomato interests. BTW - we get fresh black eyed peas here on a seasonal basis. They're a local product - and the season isn't very long. Robyn

OK - this is the topic: "I believe it is inevitable. Much like the disappearance of the rain forests, our beloved Southern Food, the hand made food of the working class is destined for extinction. Within my lifetime (I'm just 42!) I believe that hand made Southern food will only be found in expensive, white table cloth restaurants such as mine." I submit that part of the premise is false. Southern food isn't disappearing. You can find shrimp and grits or crab cakes benedict on tons of menus where I live. And they're not expensive, white table cloth restaurants. And I make stuff like that at home. And of course the "hand-made" part is true. Who has time to cook hand-made meals 100% from scratch most of the time - whether in the south or elsewhere - and - in a restaurant setting - at anything other than an expensive restaurant? Like those Anson Mill grits - they're perishable. Have to be refrigerated or frozen. And require 1-2 hours to cook. There are lots of nights we just want to make some eggs - with sausages and peppers - some cajun spice - and grits. We don't have time to cook grits for 1-2 hours. I refuse to feel guilty because we don't have the time to spend hours every night cooking dinner. Robyn

I don't agree with your first point. Like I said in my attempt to answer your question - there are a lot of interesting cuisines that have their roots in poverty - but all great cuisines aren't cuisines of poverty (perhaps none is- but why go for the home run and a lot of extended argument ). Even some dishes which we think of as having their origins in abject poverty - like corned beef and cabbage - aren't. The Irish celebrated their arrival in the US - the land of opportunity - by buying beef (albeit a cheap cut) - because (I seem to recall) they couldn't afford beef during the potato famine. By the way - I think there's a difference between a cuisine of poverty - and an older cooking method designed to compensate for lack of contemporary conveniences (like electricity - refrigeration - etc.). Heavily salted items - like salted cod - which appears in a lot of different cuisines - were designed to compensate for a lack of refrigeration - not a lack of money. You know - I've eaten at a lot of "new Southern restaurants" - everything from a place like Crook's Corner many years ago to a place like Reign in Beverly Hills more recently (really high end - read expensive - fried chicken) - and lots in between. When Bill Neal started it all - it was kind of fun. It was "kick it up a notch" - but let's not pretend we're serving foie gras with truffles. And the prices and atmosphere were in line with that attitude - no $4/pound grits. And the first time you have a crab cake Benedict - well that's fun too. But "new" southern cuisine is basically the stuff your grandma (not my grandma) made - with a couple of twists. It's tasty - it's good - it's important historically - but it's not great cuisine - and when it starts to take itself too seriously - I think it falls on its face. You know - I make shrimp and grits at home (and eggs and grits - and lots of things with grits) - and I use Quaker "quick" (not instant) grits. They're pretty good. I agree that instant grits are pretty awful. I can afford to take 5 minutes to cook grits instead of 5 seconds - but I've tried "designer grits" before - and I don't have the time to sit by the pot for hours to make them come out right. OTOH - I doubt many people would pay big bucks at a white tablecloth restaurant for shrimp and "Quaker Quick Grits" . Robyn

I enjoy cooking (like I enjoy reading, gardening, playing the piano, golf, travel, etc.). But the things I enjoy doing have to take a back seat to the things I *must* do. And I've had a bad couple of years in terms of those "must-do's". I'm certainly not unique - it's just a PITA when one has to deal with it. Robyn

I'm glad you resisted the urge to delete. I know that eGullet isn't fond of discussions of non-food issues - but when the topic of the SFA conference this year was exploring race through the lens of foodways (that's really fancy - like when designers talk about colorways ) - it's apparent that when you're talking about the south - it's really hard to extricate the food from the non-food issues - especially socioeconomic issues - in a surgical way. I always knew that socioeconomic issues permeated *almost* everything here - but when I read about the SFA conference - I realized that they permeated *everything*. FWIW - I don't think your description of what people do on holidays in the south is unique to the south. Remember "A Christmas Story" - the horrible/funny scene where the family wound up in the Chinese restaurant on Christmas because the dogs ate the turkey? Moreover - I think that the major determinant of the type of family get-togethers you describe is physical proximity - no matter where people live. My grandparents' and parents' generations had more family get-togethers than people in my generation because they all lived relatively close to one another (NY metro area). In my generation - my husband's and my siblings are scattered throughout the country - closest is perhaps 300 miles away - furthest is 2000 miles. Doesn't make family get-togethers very easy. In addition - the older people get - the longer distances seem. Three hundred miles isn't anything when you're 40. It's a lot when you're 80. None of my inlaws' siblings came to their 50th wedding anniversary - even though they lived about 400 miles away. Perhaps southern families are somewhat behind the curve in decentralizing - but I think they'll catch up. Robyn

I don't much like cornbread. But my husband does. And we both like the Williams Sonoma mix better than the recipe on the back of the White Lily cornmeal box (which is what I used to make before I found the Williams Sonoma stuff). It's more like cake than bread - which is why I suspect we like it so much . American producers of a lot of things have priced themselves out of the market. I have a can of Phillip's crab meat in the refrigerator right now (bought at Costco) - and the crab is wild caught from Malaysia. I suspect I could get better at a high end restaurant (although the Phillip's is far from cheap) - but the lump stuff in a can is perfectly fine for home-cooked crabcakes - crab salad - etc. We have a Barbara Jeans's around the corner from where I live. Don't much care for the place (food is too salty) - but I'm sure if they used domestic instead of foreign crabs - they'd have to charge $25 for a plate of crab cakes instead of $12. Can't say that I mourn the loss of domestic production in most areas. For example - I use a ton of pine nuts a year (for making pesto) - and when Costco started selling Chinese pine nuts - it cut my pine nuts spending by about 2/3. I know that domestic producers of other produce - like garlic - are also in trouble because of the Chinese. And in an area like gardening - everyone is worrying about the entry of the Chinese into the orchid market. I suspect that my attitude derives at least in part from the fact that I have never lived in one of the few areas of the country where there's a large amount of local artisan produce. Florida is a very large important state in terms of the food industry - but the mainstays of the industry - the two largest are cattle and citrus for juice - and there are other biggies like "Big Sugar" - aren't the things you're likely to fawn over at the local farmer's market. In our local area - in addition to cabbage and potatoes - we also produce sweet onions - and small crops of seasonal produce like blackeyed peas - collards - etc. - but it's hard to get excited about those crops. Robyn

Thanks for the food warning. I try to be careful - but there's no harm being reminded a bunch of times. Last thing I want to do is poison myself or my guests (don't have enough bathrooms ). I did order a little portable stove last week (not for Thanksgiving but for next year's hurricane season - you couldn't find one of those things within 1000 miles of Florida in the late summer or early fall) - so I may heat up the soup on the regular stove - and then put it on the portable stove (assuming it arrives in time for Thanksgiving). Robyn

I've worked on EBay for quite a while as a seller - and if I were a buyer - I'd be *very* careful about buying anything expensive there. Replacements Ltd. is more expensive (as are many other reputable dealers) - but I don't think you have to worry about your money going "poof". FWIW - Clark Howard has rated Ebay as one of the lowest rated companies in the US in terms of responsiveness to consumer complaints. If someone is thinking about something that's used and *really* expensive - doesn't hurt to look at the silver auctions at Sotheby's and Christie's (I sold something at Christie's last year - and was very pleased with its services). Robyn

What kind of warranty do you get from the scratch and dent outlet? If the thing is sold "as is" - I'd forget about it. Robyn

In other words, you look askance at most great food traditions. It is undeniable that women, who were once relegated to the kitchen, are in general to be credited with the survival of home cooking until recent times. It does not follow that a current call to preserve or restore home cooking is a call for the subjugation of women. Far from it. ← Last time I looked - you were a lawyer. You were lucky enough to get a lot of time off from work after the birth of a child - and you could immerse yourself in what The Cynical Chef called "The Hobby of the Wealthy" - making handmade food (and I enjoyed the thread!). Now I know you don't think of yourself as "wealthy" - but most working class people in most parts of the US would think you wealthy: 1) if you got paid childbirth leave; or 2) you could afford to take off so much time in unpaid childbirth leave. I'm not fussing at you in particular - I can afford to do the same things - even without having a baby . So can a lot of people here. But the point is most people can't. So how does one get the great food traditions of home cooking when a husband and wife are both working 40+ hours a week and trying to raise a couple of kids in the process? When my husband and I were working (we're both lawyers too) - we were each putting in 40-60 hours a week - and - even without kids - the last thing we wanted to do when we left the office at 7-8 was put anything on the table. That's how I learned a lot about restaurants . I assume you are back at work now - putting in long hours - and that your wife is still working a full-time job - and that your cooking efforts have been curtailed somewhat. If they haven't been - then I tip my hat to you - you have more stamina than I do. Robyn P.S. For those of those who think we worked so hard because of TV or ads or consumerism - you've never been a trial lawyer. You get out of the courtroom - and then you head back to the office for a few hours (at a minimum) to get ready for tomorrow. If you're a doctor like my brother - it's up at 5 to the hospital - last patient at maybe 5-6 - and you have about 3 hours before you're ready to crash. There are a lot of jobs where one can work fewer hours and a regular workweek - but a lot of those jobs don't pay enough so one can afford help. So when you get home - it's helping the kids with homework while you catch up on a few loads of laundry. So who has the time to spend 3 hours a day in the kitchen (even if one cooks Rachel Ray's 30 minute meals - unless you want to lose a couple of fingers - they'd take most people a lot more time).

Most "country" pate is made from leftovers - scraps - because chefs never throw anything away. That's a no-no in professional kitchens. One keeps waste at a minimum. So I supposed Gifted Gourmet's answer could be one correct answer. Or another variant would be using creativity to spin straw into gold. Taking the dregs and turning them into something wonderful. I am not sure that all great cuisines have their beginnings in that - but there are certainly a lot of enjoyable cuisines that have their origins in that kind of "Depression mentality". Moreover - a lot of these cuisines engender nostalgia - they bring up memories of childhood - and family - and family traditions. If I'm warm - let me know. BTW - I'm not so sure about the SFA. Like the subject of its 2004 conference - food and race relations - exploring race through the lens of foodways. This might play well on college campuses - and among a certain subset of southern intellectuals - but I doubt it's calculated to bring working class southern white people back to making homemade cornbread. The last thing a southern working class white person wants to hear is a debate over whether his grandmother's cornbread recipe came from her grandmother - or the family slaves (and - at least according to periodicals like the NYT - there were a whole lot of arguments like this at that conference). You might as well hand out free meal coupons for Kystal hamburgers. Also - I don't have a dog in this fight. As a white Jewish person who was born in the north - I just like eating and cooking different kinds of food. When I lived in Miami - I learned to cook Cuban food. When I moved to north Florida - I learned to cook southern food. The unfortunate thing about both cuisines is if you cook them traditionally - they're pretty bad for you health-wise (which isn't uncommon for "Depression mentality" ethnic cuisines - my grandmothers' recipes call for healthy doses of chicken fat - they're your basic "heart attack" food). So they don't appear on our table too often. Robyn

Missouri wasn't a confederate state either. Not that being a confederate state after the Civil War was any great shakes. I just think that the confederate states had a lot of catching up to do in terms of getting even with the rest of the country economically in the 20th century (and I don't think they started to hit their stride until air conditioning became widespread). Moreover - I look askance at efforts to try to cast in stone "traditions" that were in large part the result of miserable economic conditions. Robyn

I think you are equating rural with southern - and rural in the south is associated with poverty. It took a lot to drag big parts of the south into the 20th century (including mammoth projects like the TVA) - but - by the beginning of the 21st century - the south was a lot less rural than it used to be. Good thing too. I never found most southern rural areas to be remotely attractive (in large part because they're very poor). Like the new joke I just heard today - what do a hurricane and a southern divorce have in common - in either case someone loses a doublewide. Please note that I live in a Florida county where there is a bunch of agriculture. Cabbage and potatoes. It is a downright ugly part of the world (and very typical of rural Florida areas) - with a lot of dirt poor workers. Poorly educated workers too (that's certainly one thing we need to improve on a lot - our educational system - fewer than 50% of all kids in Florida graduate from high school). Not anything like you see in Minnesota farming areas. Moreover - I don't think you're going to see anything like you describe in the areas of the south where most people now live - metro areas like Atlanta, SE Florida, Raleigh-Durham, etc. Good thing too. The future of the south - assuming we don't fall 50 years behind the rest of the US - isn't in harvesting potatoes - it's in working at places like the new Dell computer plant planned for the Triad area. If the food suffers from the modernization of life - so be it. Like I've said here before - the south isn't and shouldn't be a museum where strangers come to gawk at the quaint ways of the past. My first priority is to see kids learn to do math - to get educated - to get good jobs - not to make cornbread. I'm not saying that we definitely can't do it all - those are just my priorities. By the way - I don't think of Kentucky as part of the deep south since it wasn't a confederate state. Robyn

The catfish thread .... ← Catfish is a good example of changing times and changing tastes. Many years ago - when you wanted catfish in south Florida - they were usually wild from Lake Okeechobee. One taste of these things - and you knew there was a good reason why catfish aren't kosher . Although farm raised catfish are still pretty near the bottom of the fish lover's totem pole in my opinion - they are a distinct improvement over the original. Robyn