markovitch

no argument there

jaz- bingo. the behavior of food and beverage terminology is one of the best testing grounds for any theory of semantics, and prototype theory creates some interesting paradoxes, mostly because of the amount of sensory information that one may associate with a given term (taste, smell, sight... and in which state, even sound, in some contexts). In nearly all languages there are special categories for food terminology. at this very moment I am writing a paper about 'recipe syntax' in english, which is an isolated, highly marked form of sentence which operates without subjects.

sorry, those are just random examples (the only ones i know of) to illustrate my point. I made absolutely no claims to the validity or, as you have intimated, the degrees of validity of these drink variations. I really have no stock in this argument at all, I thought illustrating how deep these distinctions go in the minds of people would be useful.

well, I'm a linguist, i guess my 2 cents may be worth 2 cents in this thread, at least with the language as expanding notion (i'll try to keep it short): we are really discussing two rather different facets of linguistics: (1) the standardization of grammar (2) the semantics of cocktails. Perscriptivism in Grammar is not a popular idea for linguists (we prefer to describe natural language, not enforce arbitrary acceptability judgements), and thus we find people such as William Safire rather distasteful. For a nice, concise rant from a learned man about these subjects, I suggest Steven Pinker's "Language Instinct," in which there is a chapter entitled 'language mavens' directed at people like Safire. now, as to the semantics of Cocktail terminology, I will introduce a common, but not uncontriversial concept from semantics: prototype theory. Prototype theory argues that when a person hears a noun 'X', the word triggers some notion of a prototypical 'X'. Both the speaker and the listener will, invariably, have different protypes, but there is a sizable amount of overlapping features between the two conceptions of 'X' to keep it mutually intelligible. Prototype theory borrows heavily on the Wittgensteinian idea that language is a game to which we all know the rules, but play a little differently. If we adapt this notion to the martini, it is easy to see both sides of this argument: if 'martini' triggers the image of a martini glass, then there is not much of a problem with the appletini, but if 'martini' triggers a memory of taste, or something of the like, seeing a key lime martini with graham cracker crust is infuriating. I am on the precipice of lanuching into a very, very long rant. I will stop now to save us all... This'll all blow over as soon as sex in the city is demoted to kitsch. I hope i didn't offend anyone who is familar with this stuff, but prototype theory is really cool edit: spelling

Hang on... you'd add Dots? What do you like there? We were there last week and it annoyed me that I was paying over $5 for a burger (without fries) and didn't get to specify how to have it cooked. I did like the velvet flocked wallpaper and the black velvet paintings, but I don't think I'd go out of my way to eat there unless it was past midnight and I needed cheddar fries. regards, trillium i'm not a fan of dots either.

Hmmm. Portland, you say? Maybe you need to come over to our place and taste what we've got... that might help you eliminate some of the things you don't like and it would be fun to know another cocktailer in pdx. We just emptied a few bottles before the move (Barbancourt, erm, some other rum and the Maker's Mark), but it's scary how many boxes we had to move full of booze bottles. And I have a stash of Seville oranges in the freezer... My story is the same as cdh's, I cut my teeth on Wired's cocktail site (which was sold to someone else I think) except I was fortunate to have been living in the same city as the authors (some of whom were still tending bars). I've been slowly working my way through every featured cocktail in Paul Harrington's excellent book and it's been a fun and educational ride. You might try hunting it down through bookfinder or something. I think it's nicer to buy bottles as you need them to try different cocktails then to buy a bunch of stuff all at once. regards, trillium sounds like fun, but not anytimes soon. I'm neck deep in school... it's going to be non-stop until the middle of May.

believe me, I've noticed. I wouldn't have asked such a thought provoking question to amateurs :) Ya'll are great and I'm very appreciative of all the advice. If i could repay somehow, I would. if anyone comes through portland, i'll throw a college cocktail party like you wouldn't believe. all kidding aside, i'm glad ya'll are here. My roommates sure look at me strangely when I buy nice booze, then they try the drink. its the same think that happened when i started cooking for them. oh, and i cracked open the tanq 10 tonight (its a weeknight, i know, but i had a reason to celebrate!). WOW. i had spent a good deal of time dissecting the differences between regular tanq and the bombays before, but tanq 10 is the smoothest gin i've had (so far). talk about thought provoking!

thanks for all the advice, man... I've got the limon press covered (growin up in tucson has some advantages) I was trained well in the ways of bourbon, my older brother's best friend lived near me in high school and he was alway feeding me good bourbon and water until i demanded it straight... Evan williams has always been my base bourbon. I like it more than most of the stuff to which it is compared. I spotted that one as a great cost/benefit bottle while ago. I'm going to take this slowly, but i'll keep ya'll updated as this goes along. Keep the recommendations coming! i'm going to buy some more stuff this weekend... has anyone had three olives vodka? it seems reasonable and my GF really wants the shaker that comes with it. ~m edit: ACCCCCCCCCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ay kant spel

i guess unless Jim does it it just ain't right.

(singing) bourbon bourbon everyone likes their bourbon! if you're like me you aren't digging the peat flavor that is prominant in scotch. Try one of the garden variety Bourbons: Maker's Mark or Jim Beam, or Woodford's Reserve, or.... there are tons. I cant help you about being overeas, my brother lives in the UK and I send him bourbon for every holiday, it is all he asks for. edit: digital dexterity and mornings are mutually exclusive

thanks guys. This'll be a paycheck by paycheck, gig by gig project (the pennies trickle in slowly in college, as i'm sure you all know/remember well), so if ya'll want i'll keep my purchase record in this thread as it builds. I bought two of the Regan's books online, so with luck i'll soon know to which drinks Drcocktail is referring soon. Markovitch's quest for a stocked bar in college, 1. Tanq 10 (3/31/04)- Tanq is my preferred Gin from the standard top-shelf three (Tanq, Bombay, Bombay saph), so I upgraded. 1. M & R dry vermouth

I was actually hoping for people to suggest based on their personal tastes: along the lines of 'if i were to do it i'd by a, b, c, d etc.' I could do a decent job on the project on my own, but that wouldn't be interesting. I'm new enough to liquor as a flavor/taste experience to jump on something i've never heard of on the suggestion of someone with experience (like an egulletteer) but not on my own. maybe its too tall an order. oh well.

so I just turned 21. hurray, now i'm not committing a felony for a good drink. Egullet has netted a nice group of dedicated imbibers, so I'd like to tax their knowledge a bit. I've a bar in my house for a while (i unearthed it in the basement of a house i was gutting) but it holds a little less than rose's lime, shaker, jigger, strainer and glassware. here is the challange: I want to stock my bar, well. I have acquired enough taste in booze to (1) not look like too much of an idiot on this forum, and (2) not wish to ingest any sub-par booze. $25 a bottle or less, every major type (gin, vodka, bourbon, scotch, tequila, rum etc). If you were me, what would you buy? edit: ya know, for a linguist, i should learn about my own damn language

okay... zest, little or no pith. got it. i don't know how big limoncellos are, but 15? how much peel do i need to do 1/2 batch? i was planning to do my favorite cheap vodka- monopolowa, will that do? (remember i'm still in college, tho i just turned 21, so i can do this all legally, at last, but not expensively) my roommate has some fine homemade tennessee sorghum molasses... this sounds like a great idea. i can't wait to try my new manhattans: Pappy van winkle 12yr lot B homemade grapefruit bitters preserved Rainier cherries in syrup (homemade too, but not my home) sweet vermouth.... holy jeezus... this is gonna be fun. mark

I have been feeding people with all kinds of dietary restrictions, be they disease related (allergies, celiac-sprue) to moral/ethical, i find it is best to search out recipes that require no substitution at all. buddhist sour soup is a good example (though ive seen versions with pork). then the dishes do not come across as 'compromised.' one thing i've noticed about carnivores and tofu/tempeh(along with compassrose): they don't complain if they don't know, and they don't notice if the tofu doesn't have corners. Smash it, cut it oddly, crumble it, it doesn't much matter.

I just got a box of yellow, thick skinned pnk grapefruit from my parents in Arizona. the skins are really thick; i was thinking about tossing a bunch of pith and zest in a bottle of vodka before this thread popped up. Could i make Grapefruit bitters? Should i make grapefruit bitters? These fruit are really good but their pith is incredibly bitter (probably from way too much sun) mark

props to you homey as an aside, did anyone notice Martha Stewart is nominated?

i would put money on something exotic but distinctly american. Hazelnuts, or something.. maybe avocado. that would be a good one. I would ask the Japanese chefs if the stakes are as high in these new contests as they were in the japanese contests: the shame, the tradition etc. i'd also watch the makeup of the assistants (whether they are cronies of the american chef, the japanese or both) and how the language barrier is dealt with. Language problems exist in all kitchens, but rarely are two allstar chefs involved. i expect a full report :)

Hi, I have a friend who is travelling to SEA this coming weekend to Visit U W grad school. She is a celiac travelling with a vegetarian, and they are wondering about restaurants in the area of the University which will be accomodating to dietary restrictions but still serve interesting food. Any Suggestions are appreciated

Sounds good, could you post the recipe? maybe this betrays me as a gung-ho cook, but as far as i'm concerned, that IS the recipe

i use it in place of cous cous and Bulgar for my celiac girlfriend. Quinoa provides a great substitute for her. Quinoa pasta is great ( i even like it), there are a lot of Q basedd products made for the wheat-free/celiac clan, such as quinoa 'oatmeal' which is perfect for breading. I first encountered the stuff in its native environ-- The Andes. When i was hiking to Machu Picchu that stuff kept me going almost on its own. my favorite use is Kemer, which is essentially turkish tabbouleh-- tomatoes, lots of sumak, parsley, lemon juice and paprika. My tukish homies think mine is pretty damn close to the real thing, if not better.

The one variety of mushrooms that taste terrible. I agree with Busboy on this one. Once, in a particularly uninspired moment, we put some on a pizza, but I recall the results were disappointing in both the culinary and psychedelic aspects. We used to keep them frozen in the belief that would better maintain their potency, but it also made them somewhat easier to swallow. Otherwise, when thawed they quite resembled oysters in consistency. SB (doesn't really care for oysters anymore either) actually it does work if you do the following: leave the caps whole, place on parchment and cover them in chocolate. refrigerate until the chocolate hardens. flip them over and cover them again. refrigerate. repeat a few times. the key is to get so much chocolate on there that it will melt and so thoroughly cover the inside of your mouth that you can chew the little bugger up and swallow it without that horrid taste ever getting near your delicate tongue. but for the love of god, and i speak from experience, if you are going to store them, LABEL THEM CLEARLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the Hindu, the Buddhists have been on earth for a very, very, very long time. While they are not all vegetarians, there are healthy populations in each group that are, and have been for ages. I don't see any posts on this thread telling anyone what they should or should not do. I see this thread as a lively discussion. but its all beneath you anyway.

i never claimed to be a christian. I was raised a christian, and I have read the bible numerous times. hence the 'modicum of expertise.' I don't really understand part of your argument... " either it's okay to eat meat today, or it's not" do you mean that a 'god-given right' is true and constant throughout all time and space? Biblical interpretation has yielded an awful lot of misguided ideas of dominion and stewardship, such as converting the heathens, burning the witches, enslaving the less than human. Now i don't want to get caught in an argument of scale and severity, these are just examples of past, popular biblical interpretations that have been shunned in more recent times. The word of god may be constant (and correct), but the translators, the interpreters and the believers are not. People INSPIRED by god are still people. Thankfully, that has led to evolution and deeper understanding of humanity's relationship with god. I refuse to believe that humanity will not continue to deepen their understanding of their world, or, if you will, their 'dominion'; if that is true than all is truly lost. That is my only point. EllenC-- right on!

bring whiskey and anyone will feed you. I'm serious. In a country full of Tequila connoisseurs, whiskey is a high ticket, highly prized item.