markk
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Posts posted by markk
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If you went into a store and asked for a batch of an item when you returned, "with no trans fats", and the shopkeeper posted on eGullet the dilemma of what do do - to sell you a regular batch and not tell you that it had trans fats in it, or to tell you that that was the only way she could make it for practical reasons, and lose your sale, so what should she do? - what would you have advised her?
I'll let K8 answer that for herself, but you're twisting the issue a bit, and she acknowledged as much. So did another poster.
If a customer asks if something's vegan/organic/trans-fat free/has nuts in it, that's much different than asking if something's 'fresh' or not. If you want to know if it's 'fresh,' that's a preference. A hope. A wish. And until they know the logistics of the operation it's not really something for the customer to debate.
If they're really that concerned about freshness and quality, it's fairly easy to get the big picture of how most commercial food is made, from the Food Network's factory tour show to the Internet.
If you ask if something is vegan, free of trans fats or has nuts in it, that's a whole other question altogether, and one that should be taken seriously and answered honestly.
But experience has shown that the interrogators of the world are, by and large, fickle and cheap. They come in just twice a year, because your cake costs $x more than the sheet cake at the grocery store that they usually buy, but Aunt Nellie's coming to town and they want something special, so they expect you to treat them to a song and dance and lots of personalized attention when they grace you with their presence. They want the quality product (for once) to impress and expect that you'll recognize the 'favor' they're doing you.
Again, if you have religious/nutritional/allergic questions, I've got all the time in the world for you and respect you for asking. But if it's an esoteric debate or because you want to feel special and/or feel entitled to special treatment just because you're you (and you're not a regular customer), that's another matter entirely.
Lastly, when you're baking from scratch it takes more time to put out a quality product, period. There's less time to shoot the shit so time is at a premium. It becomes a question of 'do I spend ten minutes with this person (and the one after that and the one after that) answering questions because they didn't get enough attention as children, or do I get more pies/cupcakes/bars out?' It's a pretty easy answer.
So my question to you is this: let's assume you're a regular customer. You know me and I know the names of your pets and kids, what you did for the Super Bowl, etc. Would you accept the fact that the cookie/pastry/pie you came in for as part of your regular stop isn't out today because I just spent twenty minutes describing the minutiae of professional baking to someone who comes in twice a year? What about the day after that? And the day after that? How long before you'd quit coming because the production schedule's so erratic that you can't count on the usual items being available for sale?
I genuniely hadn't meant to twist any words, and I hadn't meant to keep the baker from doing his or her work. When I say I'd like to ask the owner or the baker a question, I'm frequently told "he's busy baking in the back, can I relay your question to him?", and it's fine with me if somebody goes back and shouts out my question to him and brings me back the answer. I appreciate that he's busy doing what he has to do; I have that in my own work (I don't take phone calls for that reason - people with such questions can only reach me by e-mails, which I can answer at 3 am when I've knocked off, if I need to.)
It was the broader concept of not telling people things that are deemed to be "trade-only" knowledge, or deciding on my behalf that I can't deal with the answer.
So again, if the customer comes in and says she'd like 8 somethings "with no trans fats" when she returns (to parallel the original post), I'm curious if you all apply the same logic and suggest giving her the standard item with the trans fats, or if you advocate teaching her that making them without them would shorten their shelf-life and double the cost, and letting her make an informed decision, or if the sale of the 8 somethings is more important.
And I think you left out the category of customer that I usually am - I go into a shop for the first time (well, everybody has to at some point), and if I get products that I like with ingredients that I like, and I get my questions answered honestly, I will become a regular customer, and if I meet the owner late in the day when he or she is finished cooking or baking, we'll get to know about each other's kids over time. But that relationship has to start sometime.
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By the way, it seems to me that you're spending more time thinking about which restaurants you should be going to than just embracing the experience in a more spontaneous way. My advice would be just to let yourself go, discover the city in a more relaxed way, and trust your senses. Whatever you will get will be a Paris experience. By planning it so carefully, you are at the risk of treading onto too-well-beaten paths and missing the "Paris" aspect. Or be led into places that are internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of.
That's a good point, though I also understand the fear of having one of your only-two meals in Paris be a dud.
So here's a question for you. In the introductory pages of the Guide Michelin's red-lipped Paris pages (in the center of the book) are all kinds of great lists and compilations, and a section headed "Le plat que vous recherchez" (the dish you're looking for), which lists traditional dishes (une andouillette, du boudin, un cassoulet, un confit, une bouillabaisse, de la tete de veau, etc...), and none of the restaurants listed comes under the "internationally supposed to be typically Parisian but of which true Parisians have hardly ever heard of" category for sure. Let me type in the places listed for a cassoulet, and ask, are any of these any good?:
Benoit
D'Chez Eux
Julien
Chez Leon
Pays de Cocagne
Quercy
Sarladais
A Souscyrac
St-Pierre a Longjumeau
Table d'Antan
Au Trou Gascon
Auberge Pyrenees Cevennes
Dauphon
Gastroquet
de Marche
Quincy
Thoumieux
In the days when I used to go to Paris a lot, the menus at D'Chez Eux, A Sousceyrac, and Thoumieux were dripping with the most mouth-watering dishes I could imagine - cassoulet, Bresse chickens stuffed with foie-gras, slabs of foie-gras, confits (but you couldn't see in the restaurant for the dense clouds of smoke, which mean I couldn't indulge). What's the current deal with these places? Are these the traditional bistros that Bryan is hoping for?
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Interesting story.
One thing stands out to me. Why did you not engage the owner and let her know that her wine list was lacking.
People often seem to agonize over things and even seek support on line rather than talk to the establishment's owner or management, something that has a possibility of actually remedying the situation.
Well, that happened. Before I ate there the first time, I stopped by in advance to check out the list, and then asked, "do you have a corkage fee?". I'd even tell you that the first time I took advantage of it that night on my first visit, she asked, "you don't like any of our wines?" And I explained that such wines as the generic "Cotes du Rhone", and "Macon Villages" didn't do it for me. There was one night when they had a special "themed" dinner (Southwest of France) that they told me "we're going to have some better wines for that", but they couldn't pull it off (I brought a really nice Argentinian Malbec). I really can't sit down with her and explain that wines have to be chosen by taste, not by label, and that there are a lot of regions in the world now producing delicious examples of one grape or another, that provide better drinking than you get if (and this is my guess) some wine distributor's rep chooses your list for you. I mean, what's she going to do, hire a wine director? If a restaurant has lousy food, other than send back your dishes and complain about them, there's really no additional rememdy but to stop going there. But if a restaurant has a tiny, terrible wine list, and a perfectly reasonable corkage fee, I think that's the remedy right there. Bring whatever wine you'll enjoy more, and let us have approximately what we'd make in profit on one of our bottles. To me, that's win/win, considering that I can't do any more than tell her, "yes, we don't like any of your wines" because I can't teach her how to choose wines, or choose them for her (I'm only there on vacation, you know.) I did make a point of having her taste every wine I brought, and she did say "oh, that's delicious", and of course, I'd leave her most of every second bottle to enjoy, presumably, with some food at the end of the night.
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I've known people who didn't plan Parisian meals in advance, but just wandered the neighborhood where their hotel was, at night. You certainly could stumble in to a great meal, but when you're only there for two days, it's very natural to want to line up sure things. It'd be a shame to have only two dinners in Paris and have one of them be a dud. I've had dud meals in Paris and elsewhere in France for sure.
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Thanks. What I'm really trying to learn is, when do you have to, by law, list the ingredients in the food you sell. I mean, the law covers packaged and frozen foods.
But what about supermarkets and specialty stores? They don't have to provide the ingredients for the prepared foods that they sell in their display cases by the pound?
Is it the law that if they pre-pack them, then they have to label them as to the ingredients?
I couldn't get this answer from those links.
I know that some markets and stores do list the ingredients on little cards. I'm curious as to the laws governing the sale of items not commercially manufactured and packaged.
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'I'm pretty sure that if you read the original message, it's not at all about getting anything for free'
No problem. That may not be your intention. But I read the original message. It was that message to which I was replying. Look, it's perfectly OK to want something for free. Even to ask for it. Really. But it is disingenuous to blame the restaurant when you don't get it.
I didn't want anything for free. And I didn't blame the restaurant for anything. I have a plenty big mouth; if I wanted to question the second corkage fee, I would have spoken up. And if I objected to it, I wouldn't have kept going back and opening more second bottles of wine. What I wanted was various people's opinions on the somewhat unique nature of the situation, and I got them.
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Last night I threw caution (and cholesterol-consciousness) to the wind, and made grilled veal rib chops with a brandy/cremini mushroom cream sauce. On the side were string beans (in a string bean-reduction glaze with lemon zest), and potato pancakes. I took extreme care in plating it and composing the photo. Then the memory card in the camera malfunctioned, and I have none of the photos.
But as no humans were harmed in the incident, I'll survive. I had wanted to have photos one dish with sauces from this year, though. Oh well, the memory will have to do me. -
Hopefully you can get some inspiration from a truffle dinner I had in France one year.
The last item you'll see is something that you probably wouldn't think to use truffles in, but it worked sublimely well. It was a pasta in a parmesan cream sauce, much like an Alfredo, with the addition of raw ham. I can tell you that it's a great combination with truffles. For that matter, I'll bet you could grate them over a carbonara as well. Or you could always place slices of them under the skin of a chicken before you roast it.
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I also didn't see the original thread, but I'm glad you started this one. I can't wait to try it!
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I'm toying with the idea of a belgian endive/radicchio/ smoked bacon lasagna, because I love that flavor combo, and because I think the smokiness and slight bitterness would be a nice contrast with the sweet Bolognese.
At first I thought you meant have the Bolognese in another layer from the belgian endive/radicchio/ smoked bacon (I don't advise that) but then I realized that you meant a contrast to a separate Lasagne Bolognese.
The belgian endive/radicchio/ smoked bacon sounds heavenly, and then I'd surely use white wine or dry white vermouth in the Béchamel. And in light of those ingredients, you could absolutely use a fresh goat cheese in a thin layer as well. Perhaps each layer should start with a thin spread of goat cheese, topped with the belgian endive/radicchio/ smoked bacon, topped with the Béchamel. Omigod, that sounds wonderful.
Edited to say: I hate tomato sauce, as I've said, so I have a million alternatives for things like lasagne and pizza.
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Do you really want to know that I have to use a quart of Red Dye #5 to make your Red Velvet cake?
Yes.
I hadn't meant to enrage you, and I'm sorry if I did. So many of the bakers here are saying that customers don't need to know so many things, and that they don't want customers micro-managing their businesses. But this is true of every business that there is. People want to micro-manage their car repair shop so they can get their car sooner, people want to micro-manage their web designers because they think they know a better way to do something, people want to micro-manage their supermarket so they get the products they want, and bascially people want to micro-manage everything. But can you imagine what life would be like if everybody decided to withhold information about everything because they don't think people want to know it? It'd be sheer and utter chaos.
If Americans knew what their food was going through on a daily basis, not just bakery, but EVERYTHING, they would be horrified.Well, we can work to change that.
I hope that K8memphis will chime back in. I understand her concerns about fats and sugars hidden everywhere in processed foods, because she and I were taking that same argument against other posters on another thread. I'd like to know how she would feel if the people preparing some food that she bought that didn't have to have ingredient labels decided that it'd be better for her if she didn't know the hidden fat content of the food, for all the reasons she and the other bakers are giving here for withholding other types of information.
In the case of the red food dye, I still think that the best answer is one that was given to me when I asked about the trans fats in an appealing-looking cake I saw at a bakery. The baker said, "yes, it's made with trans fats. To make it with all butter would add about $12 to the price of the cake. Would you be willing to pay that?"
My aged computer gave up the ghost, I am at my kidlette's house.
But this is really interesting. An organic baker would totally want every jot and tittle revealed. That would be the nature of thier business. That's their pride and joy.
But and y'all could not have chosen a more perfect example because I kept little Chef-boy off of red food coloring like a hawk when he was little because of all these blablabla reasons. So I would not purchase any product because I would loose my control of every crumb the poor little kid ate. Might be why he went into food huh? But be that as it may...
But freezing does not produce any allergic reactions that I am aware of. And I would venture to give my ingredient list as it pertains to allergies etc. In my experience, what I would say is that my products are not safe for whatever allergy and that in the case eof a wedding cake, I can make a small portion of the cake to correspond to their need as best I can, however I do not guarantee things for celiac's or nut allergies where anaphylactic shockand death is emminent. Just requests for light adjustments.
Now my biggie here is that I do not see myself as the guru of all things baking. It's not my responsibility to educate the masses. I'm not opposed to 'sharing' obviously, but I do not expect to calm the fears and resolve every mistaken notion and retain my customer base.
Mark, If you were a regular I would reveal some secrets but I would have already taken your pusle too. I tea-totally would not reveal something that I knew would be a deal-breaker. Sorry, I'm really capatalist that way. I've had my own home business forever but when I actually opened up a retail place where I was responsible for every dime and dirty dish, you better believe that no one would be more disappointed than me if you found out whatever secret I was keeping from you and you quit me. But damn me if I didn't keep it hid as long as I could. Tough Love.
Hopefully we'll be replacing the computer soon...
Okay, but here's what I'm really asking... and I'm trying to parallel the original post...
If you went into a store and asked for a batch of an item when you returned, "with no trans fats", and the shopkeeper posted on eGullet the dilemma of what do do - to sell you a regular batch and not tell you that it had trans fats in it, or to tell you that that was the only way she could make it for practical reasons, and lose your sale, so what should she do? - what would you have advised her?
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"Again, it's not that I want something for free."
That IS the point. You DO want something for free. You want to be able to open YOUR $10 bottle of wine instead of THEIRS! And the fact that it gets so under your skin is not THEIR fault, but YOURS. If it bugs you so much, you should probably just eat elsewhere.
And by the way, every 'regular' thinks they're the only ones keeping the place in business. Maybe because it's seasonal, there are lots of people there when you are not visitng for your three days.
I'm pretty sure that if you read the original message, it's not at all about getting anything for free, but rather a pretty interesting question about what to do when a regular customer opens a second bottle of his wine to have one glass of it, and before froggio's irrelevant message, it was nicely answered in the discussion.
And yes, I think that bragging about an $80 corkage fee in a discussion that wasn't about that, is definitely obnoxious. Of course restaurants don't have to let you bring wine. Many do because they believe in accommodating their customers, who in return, are happy to pay for the privilege. It's not about depriving the restaurant their income stream, it's about drinking a wine that you enjoy with your dinner. As far as whether his wine list is "great", it may only be great in his eyes. As far as whether it's fairly priced, if the markup on a bottle is the same $80 as the corkage fee, then I don't think it's a great (customer-friendly) list.
Edited to say: yes, sure, I answered him in the same obnoxious tone with which he bragged about his corkage fee, which I thought it was way out of line for such a nice thread as this.
Also, it's too bad that the only "general" restaurant thread that's not locale-specific is this one called "restaurant life" - I think that's a flaw, and that you're right that it implies a trade-only participation. Is there a general "restaurant" board for non-trade John Q. Publix?
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By the way, Chufi, you seem to be really talented in the kitchen. I'm sure you could improvise a great lasagne, considering that it's just stuff between noodles. Sauce-y things keep it moist, and things that melt like cheese bind it. But you can really just follow your imagination. It doesn't matter if you make a lasagne that nobody's made before. It wouldn't matter if you put shredded beef and onions braised in beer inbetween the layers, and now that I think about that, if I could think of a cheese that went with that (I'm sure you can), that'd be delicious.
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In that case, I wish we had more food merchants like you!
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Do you really want to know that I have to use a quart of Red Dye #5 to make your Red Velvet cake?
Yes.
I hadn't meant to enrage you, and I'm sorry if I did. So many of the bakers here are saying that customers don't need to know so many things, and that they don't want customers micro-managing their businesses. But this is true of every business that there is. People want to micro-manage their car repair shop so they can get their car sooner, people want to micro-manage their web designers because they think they know a better way to do something, people want to micro-manage their supermarket so they get the products they want, and bascially people want to micro-manage everything. But can you imagine what life would be like if everybody decided to withhold information about everything because they don't think people want to know it? It'd be sheer and utter chaos.
If Americans knew what their food was going through on a daily basis, not just bakery, but EVERYTHING, they would be horrified.Well, we can work to change that.
I hope that K8memphis will chime back in. I understand her concerns about fats and sugars hidden everywhere in processed foods, because she and I were taking that same argument against other posters on another thread. I'd like to know how she would feel if the people preparing some food that she bought that didn't have to have ingredient labels decided that it'd be better for her if she didn't know the hidden fat content of the food, for all the reasons she and the other bakers are giving here for withholding other types of information.
In the case of the red food dye, I still think that the best answer is one that was given to me when I asked about the trans fats in an appealing-looking cake I saw at a bakery. The baker said, "yes, it's made with trans fats. To make it with all butter would add about $12 to the price of the cake. Would you be willing to pay that?"
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You can also make a delicious "lasagne ai quattro formaggi". For this you'll make a traditional Béchamel, and top it with a mixture of Gruyere, Emmenthaler, Taleggio, and Fontina cheeses (and of course Parmiggiano-Reggiano). Just make several layers of that. You can use some white wine in the Béchamel according to your taste.
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Do you really want to know that I have to use a quart of Red Dye #5 to make your Red Velvet cake? I didn't think so...
You asked a question, answered it on my behalf, and you got it wrong.
I do really want to know.
I don't like dealing with food preparers who decide things on my behalf, because they usually do get it wrong - they draw assumptions and conclusions based on their own needs, not mine. And, they're not mind readers.
By the way, I don't eat non-natural foods, and the reason is neither Ethical, Allergic, nor Religious. That's another assumption that you made on my behalf that you got wrong.
Your statement here is nonsensical, and incorrect: "If Americans knew what their food was going through on a daily basis, not just bakery, but EVERYTHING, they would be horrified. They don't want to know. If you are not in the industry, you can't understand that. They want a good product at a good price."
You have no idea what I consider a good product. Yet again, you're making decisions for me and puting words in my mouth. If you've done it three times in the space of one short post, I have a right to shudder at the thought of what other decisions (ingredients, food safety, sanitation) you're probably making on my behalf when you're handling food and I can't see you.
One of the people agreeing with you in this thread (K8memphis) has posted in mumerous other forums that she has health issues regarding "fats" in her diet, which she needs to avoid. So naturally, when you prepare anything that she's going to buy, and it's cheaper for you to use trans fats, and makes a "better tasting", and "fresher" product as well, you're going to use the trans fats, and decide that this is something she doesn't want or need to know about, right? "If she is not a regular customer, buying more than a cookie, and spends less than $50.00 a week then she doesn't need to know that we bake with trans fats because the products taste fresher and cost a lot cheaper than if we used butter, and I don't need her micro-managing my business." Isn't that what you implied?
Are you going to tell me next that cleaning all your equipment on a nightly basis requires too much staff and adds too much to the cost, and decide for me that what I really care about is a product that tastes good anyway and costs a little less? I have a perfect right to assume that you are, based on what you already wrote.
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When you buy packaged food, the box lists the ingredients. I believe this is a law, but I don't know what kind. When you buy prepared food that's in a display case, and they serve some and weigh it, they don't have to list the ingredients? But when the supermarkets pack that food out for sale, the labels have the ingredients. Is this because they have to? When you go to a bakery, nothing in the display case has the ingredients listed. They don't have to either if they sell things loose?
Does anybody know the laws that govern this?
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Do you really want to know that I have to use a quart of Red Dye #5 to make your Red Velvet cake?
You're damned right, I do. And I think you have a terrible attitude for a food merchant. What if I have a child with a disorder that's worsened by a chemical colorant? What if that dye is carcinogenic, and I'd prefer not to ingest it because my mother and sister died of Cancer?
I have a right to know what's in the food that I buy; if your Red Velvet cake has Red Dye #5, I'd like to know so that I can avoid it. For you to make decisions for me, and for you to attempt to deny me the right to choose, is reprehensible.
So is your statement, by implication, "If she is not a regular customer, buying more than a cookie, and spends less than $50.00 a week then I don't care if her son goes into convulsions because of one of the ingredients in my food that I won't divulge".
I think that every customer should assume that if you're keeping secrets from them, that you're keeping really important ones from them, like the fact that you probably don't really clean down your machinery after use, or keep items refrigerated that need to be, or tell the truth about which foods have known allergens because you can't be bothered to keep them separate. Now that I know you're lying about the Red dye #5, I have the right to assume that you're lying about everything else, you know. You opened that can of worms yourself.
And as far as your implied statement, "If she is not a regular customer, buying more than a cookie, and spends less than $50.00 a week then I don't care if her mother and her sister died of cancer, she's going to eat carcinogenic ingredients here!" ought to be punishable by jail time. She has a right to know what's in the food you sell her so that she can make an informed choice.
If Americans knew what their food was going through on a daily basis, not just bakery, but EVERYTHING, they would be horrified.That doesn't give you the right to poison me so that you can save a few bucks on natural food coloring!
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Yes. I make a non-tomato lasagne because I hate tomato sauce.
Just use your same technique for your beautiful Bolognese lasagne. I don' follow any recipe, but here's all you need to know (I think):
One layer will be sauteed mushrooms, your choice. I usually do a large quantity of Cremini mushrooms (baby Bella here) sliced, and I sautee them in butter with a little garlic and some herbs.
Another layer is vegetable. I simmer some spinach, kale, and swiss chard until tender, then chop them up.
Another layer is chicken (or turkey, leftover from guess-when?). I poach the chicken parts in a rich chicken stock, then let them cool in it to absorb the flavors before I pick them and dice the meat. If I'm using leftover turkey, I simmer it in the stock and let it cool, again so it'll absorb the flavors and stay moist, before I dice.
All the layers are topped directly with a Béchamel sauce (before another pasta sheet goes over them), for which I use a very rich chicken stock, and dry white vermouth as well. This sauce directly tops the mushroom, vegetable, and chicken layers, and then gets topped with shredded cheeses such as Gruyere and Emmental, and of course grated Parmiggiano Reggiano. You can also have a layer of Ricotta cheese and sauce.
The top is Béchamel topped with cheese. If you want to get really fancy, you can use some of the mushroom liquid that's given up to flavor one batch of Béchamel, and you can make a very rich root-vegetable stock to use in the other Béchamel, but this may be over the top; just be sure that there's some rich chicken stock and dry white vermouth in the one you make, and be liberal with it.
This is definitely better if you bake it a day or two before, and refrigerate it for the flavors to meld, and then reheat it.
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So, in fact she was perfectly fine with the idea of frozen brownies? There wasn't a need to lie after all?
I would say that if you had told her that that's what you do each day to ensure moist and fresh-tasting items in the case, she would have been fine with that then as well, no?
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She thinks she wants brownies baked that day because in her mind that is what is required for a fresh and moist product.
What she wants is great brownies, which is what she will get, despite the fact that they were frozen.
Those are two very different statements.
Just put yourself in her shoes. Do you like people deciding what you think you want versus what you really want? Can you see the harm in that?
Your second thought is probably right. But the honest thing to do is tell her that you freeze them afer baking so that they stay at the peak of freshness, rather than getting stale, and that they taste identical to "fresh baked", but that since it's impractical to bake every item evey day, that's the best way to ensure great baked goods. Explain it to her just like you explained it here. She'll respect you for it.
Think about what happens when people assume that they know what you want, what's best for you, and what you "meant" to say. As I said earlier, she's probably planning on freezing them herself to thaw and eat at a later date. Your scenario didn't account for that, or for any other possibility of why she asked that. With your explanation of giving her what you think she wants, not what she asked for, she'll get twice frozen brownies if she freezes them, and then when they're mushy and horrible and she tells people that they were, you'll have only yourself to blame.
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the woman wanted them baked the same day she came to pick them up.
If you accept her order as she expressed it and then fill it with brownies baked another day, you are lying.
The concept of "don't ask, don't tell" has no application here. It may in many other aspects, but it doesn't here.
I once took a pleated tuxedo shirt to a dry cleaner whose ad specifically said "hand finishing". But to be sure, I called to verify that, and they said that's what they do. When I got the tux shirt back the day of the event I needed it for, the pleats looked like they hadn't been pressed properly at all - they looked like they were a cheap wash and wear shirt - the shirt couldn't be worn. When I complained, the woman told me "that's what happens when you press them by machine". I reminded her that I called to verify 'hand finishing', and she told me, "well, that's really just an expression, you know." But she lied to me, and I had nothing to wear with my tuxedo. Of course, her fellow dry cleaners would probably tell her that's the right thing to do; we wouldn't want customers micro-managing our business, you know.
But as I say, if you accept her order as she expressed (brownies baked the same day she comes to pick them up) it and then fill it with brownies baked another day, you are lying to her. Can you negate that?
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there is a LOT of construction on Biscayne Blvd from 195 to Michy's. Plus the usual Miami traffic (esp. if you are going any time after 3PM). Expect the drive to take more like 45 min. Bring a flask.
In that case, stay on 95 north and go past the exit for 195, and take the exit marked "NW 79th St/SR-934", then hang a right on 79th, and another right on Biscayne and come south ten blocks. It'll add 4 minutes to your trip. I come via 123rd. St all the time and it's still all of 15-18 minutes at night, and well, well worth it.
Corkage fees
in Restaurant Life
Posted
I explained it (hopefully), with all it's heart-wrenching psychological implications and torments (
), in the initial message that starts this thread, being careful to state that it's a tenuous thing to begin with, and probably one of those things that comes out wrong once you voice it anyway, although many people obviously did understand the exact sense in which I posted it.