Rachel Perlow

We were going to be having Thanksgiving with our Korean/Chinese friends, with lots of Asian dishes. Unfortunately, just as she is getting over bronchitis, he seems to have the flu, so we've uninvited outselves (my parents were going there too, I can't risk my dad getting sick). I was doing a lot of the traditional parts of the dinner anyway, so now I'm just cooking it all and bringing it to my parents' house. Butternut Squash Soup Salad of Mixed Greens with Dried Cranberries, Pecans and Raspberry Vinaigrette BBQ Roasted Turkey with Gravy and Grand Marnier enhanced Cranberry Sauce Cornbread Stuffing with Mushrooms, Celery and Onion Whipped Yams with Praline Pecan topping (Roast Acorn Squash for the dieters) Traditional Green Bean Casserole (Green Beans Almondine) Dessert is Pumpkin Creme Brulee and Apple Tart Tatin from Patisserie St. Michel.

Wait, so is a pint of oysters "cheaping out" or is that the correct amount to use?

As I recall, on the thread that bloviatrix linked to, there was some discussion about possibly needing to soak "old world" beans. When you say that you used the Parson's method, I take that to mean that you didn't soak them and used 1 tsp. salt per pound. Could you please report on how long it took to get them done? For comparison, I have found that Camellia Red Beans and pinto beans take 2 to 2 1/4 hours. I would guess that garbanzos would take longer. ← Yes. I only rinsed them, put them in a small LC with a little salt, covered with boiling water to a level about 3/4 inch above the beans, and popped them into a 250 degree oven. I checked every 30 minutes to see if it needed any water. Total time in the oven was a about two hours; I wasn't timing it precisely, but certainly no longer than 2' 20". (Then of course when I used them in the chorizo & garbanzo recipe they cooked about another 15 minutes or so.) ← Did they ever need additional water? If not, next time try not to check on them. I think they'll cook longer if the steam is not allowed to escape and heat released from the oven every 30 minutes. They'll probably be done to the same level in 2 hours instead of 2:20.

When should you defrost the frozen turkey, if you're using a frozen turkey, for Thanksgiving? I put mine in the fridge on Friday night. Is that too early? If people haven't yet, is it too late?

Rochelle, did you order any stuffed chickens as long as you were ordering from Poche's? Next time, do. Everyone.

Announcement: The eGullet Q&A with Arthur Schwartz is now open. If you've been missing Arthur on the radio, especially with Thanksgiving upon us, now's your chance to "ask Arthur."

Arthur Schwartz in his Connecticut kitchen. © Photo Don Heiny Guest Bio Arthur Schwartz, also known as The Schwartz Who Ate New York, was one of the first male newspaper food editors in the country and is now a cookbook author, cooking teacher, and restaurant consultant. For nearly 13 years, he was host of Food Talk, a daily program heard on WOR radio. His web-site is appropriately called www.foodmaven.com. Schwartz’s career started 35 years ago as assistant food editor and food feature writer at Long Island’s Newsday. Nine years later he created, as executive food editor, the New York Daily News “Good Living” section, and also became its restaurant critic. All four of his cookbooks have been nominated for national awards: Cooking In A Small Kitchen (Little Brown, 1978), What To Cook When You Think There's Nothing In The House To Eat (HarperCollins, 1992), Soup Suppers (HarperCollins, 1994) and Naples At Table: Cooking In Campania, which, when it was published by HarperCollins in November 1998, immediately hit the Los Angeles Times Hot List. This November, Arthur Schwartz’s New York City Food: An opinionated history with legendary recipes was published by Stewart, Tabori and Chang. You might say Schwartz was born with a wooden spoon in his mouth. His paternal grandfather was first a professional chef, then a food manufacturer, then a curmudgeonly waiter in a Jewish dairy restaurant. His maternal grandmother's home cooking was the envy and despair of the neighbors. His father could spend an entire day shopping for just the right ingredients for one dinner. In short, he grew up in a food-obsessed Brooklyn family that went, and still goes, to any length for a good meal. He is the author of numerous articles for a wide range of magazines, including Bon Appetit, Saveur, Food & Wine, Cuisine, Vintage, French Vogue, German Lui, Playbill, and Great Recipes. He has been the New York restaurant critic for Travel-Holiday magazine's annual Good Value Dining Awards, and a New York restaurant critic for Food & Wine magazine. During the summer of 1989, he was the food critic on Fox network's (WNYW-TV) local morning show, Good Day New York. He has also appeared many times on Good Morning America and Live With Kathie and Regis, and continues to make frequent TV appearances. Schwartz teaches to sold-out classes at all the major cooking schools in the metro New York area -- The New School and ICE (Institute of Culinary Education) in Manhattan; The Silo and The Complete Kitchen in Connecticut; A la carte, Sur La Table and the Viking Center on Long Island, and across New Jersey at the four Kings Cookingstudios, Classic Thyme, La Cucina d’Ana and Cooktique. He also has his own cooking school on a water buffalo farm in Paestum, Italy, about a half hour south of the Amalfi Coast, and he conducts seasonal gastronomy and culture trips to southern Italy. He has lectured and conducted seminars at, among other institutions of higher education, New York University, Columbia University, New York City Technical College, The French Culinary Institute, and the Culinary Institute of America. He has been honored as Cooking Teacher of the Year by the New York Association of Cooking Teachers. He is a member of the International Association of Culinary Professionals (IACP) and received that organization’s Award of Excellence in Electronic Media. He is listed in Who's Who in America. Q&A Intro This week eGullet welcomes cookbook author, food writer and historian, Arthur Schwartz for an eGullet Q&A. In addition to discussing his books, New York, Italy, and everything else food maven-ish, Arthur had a traditon of turning his former radio show into a Thanksgiving helpline. So feel free to ask him about all of these topics. We would also like to thank Mr. Schwartz's publishers for arranging a book giveaway at the conclusion of this Q&A. Five copies of New York City Food will be awarded. Click here for an excerpt from the book about "Why Jews Like Chinese Food."

I was reading through this thread from the beginning and had some more thoughts on the budget. How exactly is the payment handled? Do people pay at dinner, once a week or month? Do you get reimbursed immediately? by cash or check? I was just thinking that you guys should establish a set price for dinner, perhaps $5 pp, $3 for kids under 10. Keep the food cost pp in the $3-4 range and alot the extra $1 pp to a kitchen equipment fund, if things are still needed. Now that the cohousing Dinner project has been operating for about eight months, how is the kitchen equipped at this time? It sounds to me like you are chopping everything by hand (lots of talk about knife skills). Do you have a food processor? An extra large one from a restaurant supply store might be a good investment, for example.

Remind us again what your goal is for food cost per person? You spent less than $3 pp ($120). I've found that when shopping/cooking for a large crowd like this you shouldn't feel so budget constrained at the store. Even if you had splurged on two more packages of chicken and the extra salad veggies, I doubt you would have even reached $4 pp ($160). Keep that in mind on your next shopping trip for the group dinner -- actually try to spend your full budget. Also, I didn't see any hot sauce listed in your ingredients. If you didn't add it to the pot(s) because you wanted to keep it kid friendly, next time you should at least have it on the side. Personally, with Jamalaya, I like Cajun Power Garlic Sauce in the dish, which isn't hot at all; and Tabasco or Louisiana Hot Sauce on the side.

Even if you thaw it properly in the fridge for several days and carefully dry it off?

Thanks for letting us know about Hilary's. Actually, the place that we really went to a lot when I was growing up was China Sky, which was at that location before Hilary's. I always missed it whenever I drove by Hilary's. Actually, the first place that sprang to my mind was the place in Millburn, whose name I can't recall and can't find on yp.yahoo (not JJ's, I've never been there), is the Chinese place that replaced the IHOP on Millburn Avenue. It always kept the IHOP look, but had great food, at least to my memory. Is it still there?

Yes, men are fine. I've even seen men there at lunch time, although most of the seats are taken by women. Plenty of restaurants survive the middle of nowhere, although I don't think Upper Saddle River is the middle of nowhere. I don't think Tenafly is the middle of nowhere either. I just said that people don't necessarily drive through Tenafly on their way to somewhere else, or they think it's out of the way to get there or something. As for Andiamo, which I've never been to, there are plenty of average Italian places that survive for no apparent reason, see La Famiglia in Bogota, which is always packed despite mediocre food. I think the rent does have a lot to do with is, perhaps the owners of Andiamo own the property outright and don't have as high a monthly nut. Whatever the reasons, some places that shouldn't thrive do, while others you wish would go away are packing them in. The fact that we don't comprehend the reasons why, should speak more to us that we shouldn't go into the restaurant business.

The Cafe Cafe in Tenafly doesn't seem like it's part of a chain. It's a nice place to lunch with the ladies, and at dinner they have many fresh fish specials. Another good option is Max's, very good Italian. Although for some reason they have very cheap flatware. But the food is really very good. I think the location is an issue as people don't generally just pass through Tenafly. You have to mean to be here. But I do miss two of the three places you mention, Menton.

These are the two that I used to go to when I lived in the area, but haven't been to either for a few years. Could we get some more perameters for the request? How far are they willing to drive? Hillary's Chinese Cuisine (973) 379-3393 201 Morris Ave Springfield, NJ Hunan Spring Chinese Rstrnt (973) 379-4994 288 Morris Ave Springfield, NJ

Sounds like, whatever surface you choose for the top of the peninsula, you should hold off (screwing it down) for a week or more until you are sure that it is right. That way you don't ruin the top for naught. (Edit, oops)

What JPW just said. Although I try to get the temperature down even lower than 350, more in the 250-300 range. You're not taking up your oven, so it is better cooked long and slow. Oh, btw, yes, I have done this, two thanksgivings ago in fact. Now there two other major options to consider. First, pan or no pan. Second, breast up or down. If prefer breast down in a pan. But that only works if you aren't of the "show off the pretty turkey at the table" tradition. If you use stock to make your gravy and want a smokier more "grilled looking" bird, don't use a pan and add soaked wood chips in a small aluminum pan on top of the burners (under the grate). Make sure the drip pan is clean at the beginning of the day. The following will result in one ugly-ass, but delicious bird: (Preheat the grill, get it very hot) Start with a brined fresh free range organic, etc., premium bird. Or, just use a kosher one. That's what I do. Put it in a disposable pan, breast side down. You can use a rack or not, the breast is still going to be ugly and the skin won't crisp on top (of the breast, which is actually the bottom in my version), so I don't bother. Add things to the pan if you like them to flavor the drippins, like chunks of onion, carrot & celery. Add a cup of white wine to the pan. I like to shove flavorings under the turkey's skin, herbs like sage & stuff. Then the coup de grace: Lay several slices of bacon across the top (the dark meat area) of the bird. Yes, I know I told you to use a kosher turkey, but I don't keep kosher and the bacon adds A LOT. So :P If you keep kosher, I suppose you could just slather it with duck or goose fat or some other kosher schmaltz. But the bacon is good. Oh and shove some aromatics in the cavity. Garlic, lemon, more herbs, but no edible stuffing. Make that in the oven, you've got plenty of room. The whole point of cooking it upside down is that the dark meat usually takes longer to cook than the white meat. Especially when you cook it the traditional breast side up way, even more especially if you truss the bird. Notice I didn't tell you to truss the bird? You're going to carve this thing in the kitchen, and the dark meat will be done sooner because you are cooking it more exposed to the heat, so it will be done at the same time as the white meat. Finally, the dark meat side has more fat than the white meat side. So gravity combined with more fattiness + bacon will make the bird self-baste the white meat section. Not to mention the white meat will be sitting in the wine/drippings, so it will be bathed in goodness and be amazingly juicy at the end of cooking. Is the grill hot? OK, put the pan with the turkey on the grill (you'll probably have to remove the upper racks, I should have told you to do that when you went outside to preheat the grill, shouldn't I have, always fun doing that when they're preheated to 700 degrees, huh?). Turn the burners down for indirect heat. L-O-L (low-off-low) should allow the outdoor oven to cool off to around 300 within twenty minutes or so. You should leave the thing alone for at least the first hour. Just make sure the heat gets to or under 350. If it's too low after a half hour, you can move one or both burners to medium. If it's too high (doubtful), you can turn the front burner off, but if you do that, check to make sure the temp doesn't get too low. Once you've got the cooking temperature stable and in the 250-350 range, you can insert a probe thermometer in to the thigh and set it for 160 (it's not done yet). It should take 12-15 min per pound for it to completely cook, depending on the grill temp and outside weather (although that mainly effects the settings to maintain the grill temp). So the probe thermometer should go off around a half-hour before the bird is done. (if you don't have a probe thermometer, take the bird's temp with an instant read over the course of the last calculated hour.) Now, you can cook it the whole time in the pan, but if you want to crisp up the breast skin and make gravy with the drippings, you need to intervene around 160. Go outside with two half-sheet pans, pot holders and a roll of paper towels (or turkey grabbers if you got them). Slide one sheet pan under the disposable pan/turkey. Remove from grill. Using turkey lifters or wads of paper towel as pot holders, pick up the turkey and put it back on the grill (still breast side down). Turn up the heat and grill for 10-15 minutes to crisp the skin. You may want to turn it 1/4 turn half-way in to get pretty grill marks. Meanwhile, take the pan inside, strain, defat, make gravy. Put the other sheet pan on top of the grill, to heat, and be ready to remove the turkey to it when the grill marks look nice and the internal temperature reaches around 175 in the thigh. Oh, don't leave the probe in the bird when you turn the heat back up, the wire can't handle the higher temperatures (which is why we didn't stick it into the bird until an hour in, when the grills temp came down). Bring inside. Allow to rest. Carve. Impress.

I wasn't planning to test the Butternut Squash Lasagna in advance, as it seems a pretty straightforward recipe. Lasagna is something typically on the Italian-American Thanksgiving table. I'm not Italian, but my sister-in-law is, so there will usually be something like lasagna or manacotti when she hosts Thanksgiving. This year, we will not be at her house and instead I am co-hosting with a friend, at their house. I like Butternut Squash, and usually include something made with it at Thanksgiving -- I've served Butternut Squash soup in the past. Actually, I thought of making it this year as a run through for next year (which will probably be at my brother's house).

I'm thinking of making this Butternut Squash Lasagna recipe as a Thanksgiving side. Any opinions? I doubt I'll have time to do a test recipe before I make it for the holiday, so I'd appreciate y'all's thoughts.

Excellent solution.

Go to the grocery store with tape measure. Measure the largest turkey you will ever need. Go get a balloon or beach ball and blow it up to similar dimensions. Sit that in your roaster in the prospective oven. Don't forget the roasting rack.

That's a good point, Scott. How did you store the stock? Here's what I do for stock, soup, tomato sauce, chili, anything cooked up in large volume (some to eat immediately, most to put into the freezer): Put into container no larger than 1 quart. Fill the sink with lots of ice and cold water (or a large bowl if only a few containers to chill, I usually have more than 4, so I use my smaller sink) Put the containers into the ice water to chill. Only after the containers have thoroughly chilled this way do you put them into the fridge (the stock won't gel that quickly, btw, even though the ice water is colder than the fridge, that takes time as well). I usually put what is to be frozen in the freezer directly from the ice water -- it is colder than the fridge. For stock, I'll usually put some into smaller containers, especially ice cube trays.

You said it was in the fridge for "several hours," I'll read that as three. Not long enough to gel. Give it more time, go to sleep and check it in the morning. The late morning, sleeping late on a Sunday morning.

Broad Ave is long, is this the address? Woo Jung Restaurant Address: 254 Broad Ave, Palisades Park, NJ 07650 Phone: (201) 592-7006 We've got Korean "relatives" coming for Thanksgiving weekend. They enjoyed Han Il Kwan in Fort Lee on their last visit. Have you been there? How do the two restaurants compare?

Try stirring a spoonful of Grand Marnier into the canned whole berry.

I'm curious how the bread pudding went over last year? I tried that for dessert one Thanksgiving and it was barely touched. I know it was good. The main reason cited was that no one wanted a starchy dessert after such a big meal and that bread pudding was very similar, in texture I guess, to the bread stuffing that went with the bird.