The Herbfarm

[southern girl]

FG- I got around to the links and called WA AGO's office. Unfortunately the state of Washington does not regulate company policies. Thus no special rule regarding restaurant deposits. Although it does have some regulations in regard to the cancelling of a contract...I was told it doesn't apply to this situation. I will be receiving a complaint form in the mail (they have one on the internet, but, since I want to include the ambiguous policy description from the website, I have to provide a printed copy thereof). The clerk told me to expect to wait about two months before there is some kind of resolution. She also mentioned I might want to file a complaint with the BBB. And that small claims court is an option. That is where things stand now. Any suggestions?

[Fat Guy]

Well at least you asked the right questions, and you never know what might happen as a result of the complaint. At the very least it will annoy a lot of people.

You don't live out there, right? So small claims court isn't a serious option for you. But a BBB complaint makes sense. I've never actually heard of a prospective restaurantgoer checking with the BBB before going to a restaurant, but it can still put some heat on a place.

[Blue Heron]

It has been my experience that filing a BBB complaint yields results, as no respectable business wants to have a blemish on their BBB report. Over the years we've filed a couple of complaints with the BBB and not until that time did we receive any satisfactory customer service & compensation for our disputed items (non restaurant related). Both times the complaints were resolved to our complete satisfaction.

[southern girl]

Thank you BH for reinforcing the BBB idea. With some much aprreciated help from FG I have posted my complaint with the Washington BBB.

[robert brown]

Southern Girl, anything new in this situation? Keep up posted and your eye on the ball.

[southern girl]

Southern Girl KO'd...by the Herbfarm and Amex....I just received a letter from Amex telling me I would have to pay up...the Herbfarm wins.

During the interim I received an offer for a gift certificate to return to the Herbfarm (non-transferable or some lucky PNW person would have been the beneficiary!). I declined the gift certificate and reinterated my request for a credit to my Amex since the chances of my returning to Seattle were slim, which I would think they factored into the equation before making the offer (not to mention that although I did enjoy Jerry Traunfeld's food...I now have a very bad taste in my mouth...and would not care to return). I received absolutely no response from the Herbfarm to this request (it was by email- so there is no...the check is in the mail). I have to think this is not the first time they have been challenged on their policy...and not the first time they have won...as I am sure their dollar volume to the credit card companies is quite high. If I am Amex...I have to think they thought something along the lines of...Gee, a complaint against the Herbfarm who provides us with a very substantial amount of income from the percentage we charge for them for allowing people to use our card....vs. a long term cardholder, who does use her card until the numbers wear off...but provides insignificant (comparatively speaking) income to us...Easy decision for Amex...Herbfarm by a KO over SG.

I did write AMEX expressing my disappointment with their decision...and I imagine I will receive on of those lovely form letters telling me TS in politely phraseology ! Boo Hiss Herbfarm!! Boo hiss Amex!! And also the BBB for closing the case.

As an aside...the Herbfarm received the Mobil 5 star award last week. The food really is excellent...but, I would never go back...nor would I ever have made the reservation in the first place had the policy been clearly explained...(guess that makes me sound like a(n) (un)gracious loser!

Edit to improve clarity

Edited November 20, 2002 by southern girl (log)

[Blue Heron]

SG- so sorry to hear this news. I can't believe it. Especially that the BBB would close the case on such a deceptive and outrageous cancellation policy. I would never recommend the Herbfarm to anyone based on your experience with them. Not because of the food, but because of the management.

[lizziee]

Southern Girl,

Is the matter completely closed or is there any appeal?

Can other AMEX members help?!

[mb7o]

No surpises here--both the BBB and AmEx probably looked at the Herbfarm's published polcies, determined they had followed them, and kept the charge. I'd think (and am not a lawyer) that the only recourse if you really wanted your money back would be a (small claims?) lawsuit stating that they didn't explain their policy to you.

However, you have already cost them--the AmEx investigation probably cost them both cash money (typically around $50), time in responding to requests, time to contact you, and so forth. And you have cost them goodwill, on this board and elsewhere. Perhaps they will reconsider based on that, but since they're full most of the time, they probably won't.

BTW, I heard a friend-of-a-friend story that (Carrie?) did part of the dinner presentation talking to a puppet when the friend-of-a-friend was there. Apparently this person and other guests found this quite disconcerting.

[Blue Heron]

"A full refund is given with 30 days advance notice. With less than 30 days notice, the full charge may apply if we are unable to re book your table."

The thing is the Herbfarm *didn't* have to re book the table since she was there sitting at it. They charged her full price for her guest that didn't show. That's crazy. I think their cancellation policy is very deceptive, and all that business about not presenting a bill at the end of the meal for your convenience, blah blah blah... but just sending the bill straight to amex... it's deceptive because they don't want you to know at the time that you are being charged extra. Plus charging for wine not drank when another wine is bought instead... I don't like their policies.

[Schielke]

Yeah, that is a horrendus policy for them to maintain. It is insulting to the customer and pretentious on their part. I seriously hope they reconsider. Although at this point I am guessing pride will stand in their way of doing what is right.

Ben

[col klink]

SG, I am so sorry this happened to you. I will make sure that nobody I know befalls the same and I'm horrified that your trip to our beloved Pacific Northwest has been soiled in such a fashion. The Herbfarm has just created an insane amount of ill will through their actions and everyone I know or don't know and asks me about the Herbfarm will hear of their business practices.

[mamster]

Yeah, SG, if it makes you feel better, this ended up costing the Herbfarm a hell of a lot more than the price of your extra meal in lost business. Not that this does you any good personally, and they're probably still filling the seats, but I firmly believe that in the long run bad customer service comes back to bite you. Thanks for giving it the good fight and reporting back.

[southern girl]

Thanks for all the supportive comments...they are appreciated.

Lizzie...unfortunately this was the appeal...they suspended the charge while investigating...came to their conclusion...so that is the end of the line...

I don't think there is anyway Amex members can help...but...I won't complain about anyone deciding to boycott the Herbfarm.

mb70...A puppet...oh my god...I dodged that particular piece of torture...the introduction of the staff ad infinitum was bad enough....I would have gone over the edge if Carrie had used a puppet...where is that puking emoticon when I need it ....she and her new-ageiness were hard enough to swallow and not regurgitate!

We also need an "evil" emoticon...here is a thought...tax accountants and lawyers feel free to chime in...I wonder how they report the "income" from cases like mine...if the tax and tips are actually itemized and paid? DO they divide the "tip" among the employees...or does the house keep it as part of the bottom line? I wonder how the IRS views this type of thing (insert evil-grinning emoticon here).

[Steve Klc]

So to recap:

A few months ago, before SG's AMEX decision, I wrote that the Herbfarm seemed to be a "gastro-tourist gimmicky self-involved hokey production. I don't care how inventive or emotive this Northwest amateur hour--oops, six hour--touring production of "Cats" is, it just won't ever be worth enduring for me because it is still "Cats." I don't care how good the individual dishes may be I would be so frustrated by what seem to me to be one anti-customer service policy and procedure after another I would probably have to stand up and scream" and "This is fine dining shtick for the Branson Missouri busload and USA Today crowd."

Fat-Guy wondered about the "general phenomenon of big-fish-in-small-pond restaurants. I've been to so many of them now that I'm far beyond being able to be surprised at the Herbfarm's behavior. Indeed what I'd be surprised to find in an Herbfarm-like situation would be humility" and followed it up with "For all I know the food at the Herbfarm is superb. Maybe there are some dishes served there that are as good as some dishes served at Jean Georges or Les Crayeres. I don't know. But what I do know is that you'd never see this kind of behavior from Jean-Georges Vongerichten because he plays in the arena with Daniel Boulud, Eric Ripert, David Bouley, Christian Delouvrier, and Alain Ducasse, whereas the people running the Herbfarm display all the telltale signs of small-time, small-town, small-minded, unchecked arrogance and it sure looks like they need to be taken down a notch. And if the local and national food media won't do it, we'll be happy to do it here on eGullet."

Then SG, when asked to compare just how good her dinner there was, replied "I have enjoyed incredible dinners at ADNY, Jean George, Lespinasse, French Laundry, Everest, Mansion on Turtle Creek and Gary Danko...it is definitely not in that league. IMO, I also don't think it could hold its own course for course in food, service or wine (though they do have a great cellar) with Ouest, Gramercy, Veritas or Picholine. It couldn't match Le Cirque, Aureole or Aqua in Las Vegas."

And this was prior to the predictable AMEX resolution.

So really, is there anything left to say? Is anyone really surprised a puppet might be a part of the dog and pony show?

[MsRamsey]

So really, is there anything left to say?  Is anyone really surprised a puppet might be a part of the dog and pony show?

Was it a sock puppet, sock monkey, ventriloquist's dummy, what? I must know.

[tighe]

Don't know if this is the truth, but the story I heard was something about Carrie having her hand up Jerry's wazoo and making him dance on a table while he sang a song about that evening's menu......that's just what I heard....

(I'm really terribly sorry, I just couldn't help myself once the thought occured to me )

[MsRamsey]

Never mind

Edited November 21, 2002 by MsRamsey (log)

[thelastsupper]

Before the first place burned down, there was a bear puppet called Herb that would go around and describe the dishes. yes, I'm shuddering too.

[tighe]

Before the first place burned down, there was a bear puppet called Herb that would go around and describe the dishes. yes, I'm shuddering too.

Maybe Herb started the fire to put himself out of his (and everyone else's) misery......

[boris]

Went to the Herbfarm on Friday evening - The Essential Root was the theme. I have to say we had a great meal. I have to say that it was our best meal in the Pacific NW, and that includes comparisons to Vancouver (Lumiere, West).

Was it worth the price of admission?....just. Tariff was pretty high. Wines included, but not all that great, and IMO just a way to jack up the price of the meal by $50 per person, and serve $10 worth of plonk. Next time we will bring our own. Reasonable corkage, but shouldn't it be waived since you are already paying for wine????

I have to agree with the comments made about there reservation/cancellation policy, and this will be a factor in whether we return. My suggestion:

Cancellation that cannot be filled by the restaurant in time entitles the individual to a voucher that can only be used to reserve a LAST MINUTE cancellation (one that was not able to be filled by someone on the waiting list). I feel this would be a win-win for both the restaurant and patron. The restaurant had at least 6-10 empty seats on Friday, so their arrogant policy cannot be justified any longer. People are not rioting outside to pay $150 - $170 for what, in this persons mind, is an amazing dining experience.

Thankfully, not much of a "dog and pony" show, and NO PUPPETS!! Have to rank it in the top four meals of all time for us.

Mark E.

[mamster]

Can you tell us about the food, boris?

[mikeczyz]

Have to rank it in the top four meals of all time for us.

what other restaurants would be included in this elite group?

mike

[boris]

To try and reply to the above:

Started with:

Small snacks: various root "chips" of various shapes and sizes. Long curls, ribbons and fat chips - the best was an intense red beet chip - with a parsely herb dip; oyster with gingered burdock; herbed onion and walnut tart; sunchoke(jerusalum artichoke) flan with paddlefish caviar.

Oregon black truffle, sea scallop & potato ravioli in parsley soup

....whole scallop which was not seared but just passively cooked within the ravioli - WOW. Unfortunately, the truffle was practically devoid of flavour. The soup was amazingly well balanced - just enough of a hint of parsley. I believe it was in a cream and vegetable (or chicken?) stock.

Herb-smoked black cod with beets, pea sprouts, and REAL wasabi....the dish of the night

Seared Duck Foie Gras w parsnip puree, sage-poached prunes, shallot rings and apple caraway sauce. ...Prunes and caraway sauce were (for me) a very original and tantilizing accompanyment.

Angelica root and lemon geranium sorbet. OK, am I the only one that finds a "palate cleanser" an Austin-Powers type of flashback? Something akin to aspic jelley?

...............regardless, this was something to be proud of!! YEA BABY!!

Herb-Rubbed Muscovy Duck Breast with confit-turnip cake, savoy spinach and huckleberry sauce.

...crispy skin, meltingly tender meat, and perfect berries(placed in suspended animation from the fall)

Celery root , hazelnut &asian pear salad

....YAWN!!! Maybe everything else was so much better, but this did not float my boat.

Dessert: Sweet potato, pine nut, and rosemary tart;

Carrot-calvados souffle with bay custard sauce (damn, did I use my dish of the night line already? OK, so this tied); ginger ice cream with lavender poached cherries and chocolate sauce.

Brewed coffee tea, etc........Passed

Small treats:

peppermint dark chocolate truffle

raspberry rose geranium fruit pate (diamond shaped jelly) - WOW

chocolate-date shortbread (looked like a classic french macaroon)

candied parsnip

jasmine white chocolate truffle.

I would state that the whole experience was better than anything experienced in Oregon, BC, or the rest of Washington. Better than: BC: Lumiere, Oest/West, Bacchus, Gavroche, Bishops,..etc

WA: Cascadia, Rovers, 727, Harvest Vine, Juanita, Canlis(are you kidding?) etc...

OR: Wildwood, Paley's Place, Higgins (that's all for now)

Mark E.

[boris]

Mike czyz:

I would rank in order: 1) Troisgros 2) El Bulli 3) Raco Can Fabes 4)The French Laundry 5) The Herbfarm, then others...

Mark E.