Varietal

[Vadouvan]

Had two dessert tasting manus last night at varietal.

I will say that how well you respond to the desserts greatly depends on how many flavors you can process at once and how well your brain and tastebuds can convince you that they are all compatible.

There are a few facts that you cannot dispute :

The pastry chef is talented.

He has amassed a lot of skill and techniques that result in fairly unique presentations and concepts.

He gets an A+ for detail and effort.

His food gets you thinking seriously.

However......

Would I ever desire or crave any of the desserts ever again ?

Probably not.....

The interesting thing about food these days is the question of whether the sum has to be greater than the parts ?

Should a mango dessert be better than the best mango ?

It should be at least as good.

I would say that at the end I left feeling that the quest to incorporate so many savory elements into desserts just really ends up missing the point for me.

There were some great textures, good flavors but I did not love any dish as a whole.

[chefboy24]

However......

Would I ever desire or crave any of the desserts ever again ?

Probably not.....

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very interesting, but

there are tons of hits across the town

turbot with chateau chalon sauce at jg

polenta & mushrooms at l'impero

etc etc

there are definitely some memorable dishes on this island but, as great as they are, i don't think i ever crave any specific dish anywhere. i go out for the whole extravaganza of an experience of an evening in a restaurant, right?

[icecreamparty]

actually no

i think that good tasting dishes are necessary

rather than just entertainment value

that comes much easier in this town then taste

and that is not a dig against varietal/

just a daccord with vadouvans underlying principle

it is a restaurant after all. to feed people.

hay is edible/i want something that tastes good!

having only tried the desserts, i would say that i would have to refrain from comment on the entire restaurant/

certainly an important opening

[Vadouvan]

actually no

i think that good tasting dishes are necessary

rather than just entertainment value

that comes much easier in this town then taste

and that is not a dig against varietal/

just a daccord with vadouvans underlying principle

it is a restaurant after all. to feed people.

hay is edible/i want something that tastes good!

having only tried the desserts, i would say that i would have to refrain from comment on the entire restaurant/

certainly an important opening

I actually do not think Chef JK makes those desserts for pure entertainment value, I firmly believe he strongly stands by what he is doing, like I said, the logic is evident, it just goes a bit too far for me. We do process tastes differently. I wouldnt say they were outright bad dessert, just not my kind of dessert.

It is a good question whether one's response to the dessert is affected by the preeceeding meal, looking at Varietal's dining room menu, probably not but I can imagine the response *may* be slightly better preceeded by a Paul Liebrandt meal or an Alinea meal. I had dinner prior that evening at Degustation and those two meals were solidly incompatible.

[rmillman]

We did the dessert tasting Sat. at Varietal. I highly recommend it.

I am a fan first of taste, then presentation and then technique. Too many modernist reverse this order.

JK is one of the most creative, precise and inspired pastry Chefs I have had the pleasure of sampling from. From flavors, textures, platings and techniques, he rocks.

Pictures of the dishes are presented above: four course we had the 1) sweet potato ice cream, 2) white chocolate cubism, 3) wolfberry and 4) chocolate puree.

Each dish had both main highnotes as well as subtle additions like lime paper, caramelized mushrooms (even the kids like these) and a reverse pear ravioli (I am assuming it was a reverse spherification because of the skin texture).

I hope that he contines developing and becomes a recognized star.

[Vadouvan]

The restaurant is definitely poorly designed

Its super cold and loud.

Starkness is one thing but you walk in to the bar and the first thing you see is a door to the basement and one leading outside, perhaps an exit.

Service is good.

The bar menu is basically useless, I cant understand why restaurants cannot serve the regular menu at the bar instead of silly fried raviolis with olive oil powder.

Controversy may have become the way for young pastry chefs to gain respect and recognition that regular chefs get, unfortunately, form over flavor results in some pretty bad combinations.

[tupac17616]

Controversy may have become the way for young pastry chefs to gain respect and recognition that regular chefs get, unfortunately, form over flavor results in some pretty bad combinations.

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Which flavor combinations did you find so disappointing?

[Vadouvan]

Which flavor combinations did you find so disappointing?

Let me preface by saying the following detail still do not change my inherent opinion that the conception is genius but the homogeneuos aspect of what creates "deliciousness" was mostly absent or a dying whisper. In english, several elements of of each dessert were excellent but the sum of the whole was muddled. Correct me if I am wrong and perhaps I should have have eaten each component seperately but Like music, I assume composition is about the homogeneous results.

Edited March 8, 2007 by Vadouvan (log)

[tupac17616]

Correct me if I am wrong and perhaps I should have have eaten each component seperately  but Like music, I assume composition is about the homogeneous results.

Indeed. Your point of view is, of course, neither right or wrong. It is simply and opinion like any other. While I'll agree with you that there is a lot going on with each dessert, I found most of the combinations enjoyable. Different strokes...

[Vadouvan]

Indeed. Your point of view is, of course, neither right or wrong. It is simply and opinion like any other. While I'll agree with you that there is a lot going on with each dessert, I found most of the combinations enjoyable. Different strokes...

Excellent, then lets stop second guessing each other, it seems more these days any "dissenting" opinions are quickly followed by attempts to clarify "why you did not like it".

Suffice to say I am not some rube who started eating complicated food yesterday.

The problem with Varietal's desserts is that the more exposure you have had to the individual components (like goji berries, indonesian soy, mushrooms,absinthe )in thier conventional uses, the less you are likely to enjoy the whole.

The caramelized mushrooms and tarragon macaroons which arent actually macaroons but possibly meringues were particularly jarring additions.

[rich]

According to Eater, the pastry chef (Kahn) is resigning in the next day or two.

[larrylee]

For posterity, Varietal is the focus of this week's NYT restaurant review.

Edited March 22, 2007 by larrylee (log)

[rich]

So, apart from the GC debate, do people believe the reason for Kahn's departure was the NY Times review or are/were there other factors in play?

Could one be cost? Most critics believed the prices were too high. Is this a cost cutting measure and will we see prices drop?

Edited March 22, 2007 by rich (log)

[Sneakeater]

None of us knows the truth, but Eater presented it more as Kahn's decision to leave than Varietal's. Either way, I can't believe the review wasn't a contributing factor.

[Sethro]

I would wait to hear something from the horse's mouth before guessing at the reason. Eater bi-lines are equal parts news and speculation (not a knock on eater, that's their writing style).

[Sneakeater]

Boy THAT'S for sure.

[docsconz]

Whether at Varietal or elsewhere, Jordan Kahn is a talent to be reckoned with. I just hope that with his youth he doesn't get too discouraged or too disenchanted from some of the criticism that he has received. If he can weather that storm he has a bright future ahead.

[rich]

Whether at Varietal or elsewhere, Jordan Kahn is a talent to be reckoned with. I just hope that with his youth he doesn't get too discouraged  or too disenchanted from some of the criticism that he has received. If he can weather that storm he has a bright future ahead.

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I agree Doc. So I hope he's not leaving because of the NY Times review. That would give the appearance of "bugging out."

[Sneakeater]

This is more baseless inexcusable internet speculation, but if the departure is Chef Kahn's decision, I would take it more as his taking leave of a ship that may be sinking (no pejorative intended) than his overreacting to criticism directed at him.

[rich]

This is more baseless inexcusable internet speculation, but if the departure is Chef Kahn's decision, I would take it more as his taking leave of a ship that may be sinking (no pejorative intended) than his overreacting to criticism directed at him.

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But that too could be problematic if insiders see him as the cause for the leaks - and not the leeks he used in his desserts.

[tan319]

This blows me away.

I must admit, I couldn't see it coming except in that perhaps people spoke of a rather big difference in what the two chefs were doing cuisine wise and that Jordan got a lot more press then the chef!

If true, best of luck!!!

Edited March 23, 2007 by tan319 (log)

[Pan]

This is more baseless inexcusable internet speculation, but if the departure is Chef Kahn's decision, I would take it more as his taking leave of a ship that may be sinking (no pejorative intended) than his overreacting to criticism directed at him.

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But that too could be problematic if insiders see him as the cause for the leaks - and not the leeks he used in his desserts.

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He used leeks in desserts??

[tan319]

Don't know how I missed this piece of crap review.

What a jerk.

I hope Kahn doesn't go ( if this is at all true that he's even considering.).

[Pan]

tan, have you dined at Varietal?

[tan319]

tan, have you dined at Varietal?

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Pan. I think you know where I reside so the answer is no.I don't see where it matters.

If you reread this thread in it's entirety, you'll see I've never said "wow, that eggplant dessert is the...."

I'm talking about this new even more shitty, bitter, style of " food journalism" that doesn't stop at not liking the food but just tearing down a place ( and it's chefs) until the owner is a quivering pile that starts counting the beans and trying to slowdown the business that will definitely have a dent put in it, at the very least.

This review even kind of ( it seemed to me ) ended the way member Sethro said Bruni always ends his reviews , with three sentences about desserts.

Which would point to threads being read, reviewers being pissed or amused by commentary and seeming to reply to it.

He did it with GILT and it was crap then.

It's been stated here not only that Varietal as not only a different kind of restuarant but is probably not going to thrill all.

As far as how it eats, people like 'doc, ect. and their opinions stand with me.

Even if I hated it and Kahns desserts, I would want to know whats behind them and protest a review like this just as loudly.