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Posted

I agree, Leslie, and it's certainly important to distinguished among the various potential defects in wine. I'm going to quote something Joseph Nase, the former sommelier at Lespinasse (and now at Aqua at the St. Regis Monarch Beach), wrote up for me a couple of years ago in response to a basic question about identifying defective wine in a restaurant (though this all pretty much applies in the retail context as well):

+++

"How do you tell if a bottle of a wine that you got at a restaurant is bad? I never know when to send one back."

Let me start by saying what does not constitute a bad bottle:

• A bottle is not bad just because you don't like the wine. Variations in winemaking style are just that, and a bottle that doesn't suit your preferences is not defective. Of course, the sommelier should help you select a bottle that's to your liking, but ultimately only you are responsible for your personal tastes.

• A bottle is not bad just because the label is damaged. Most wine travels thousands of miles to be with us, and there are plenty of opportunities for bumping and grinding. Likewise, in a cellar where thousands of bottles are stored together, one bottle can break, leaking wine onto hundreds of others. This does not affect the wine inside the intact bottles.

• A bottle is not bad just because it has little white crystals accumulated at the bottom or adhering to the cork. These crystals (called tartarate) are a natural byproduct of unfiltered, unprocessed fine wines and are totally harmless.

• A bottle is not "corked" just because it has bits of cork in it (all this means is that an inexperienced waiter pushed the corkscrew all the way through the cork, thus forcing pieces into the wine), or because it has an unsightly or even moldy cork. The term corked has a very specific meaning, which I'll explain in a moment.

There are essentially four things that constitute defects in a bottle of wine, such that you should send it back: It can be corked, oxidized, maderized or re-fermented.

Corked

Corks are natural products, and some microorganisms like to eat them. A wine is properly said to be "corked" when it has come in contact with a contaminated cork during the aging process. The results of this contamination are almost always unmistakable: The wine will smell like a wet basement after a flood, dirty socks left in the hamper a little too long, moldy, nasty and not at all enticing to the taster. On the palate, it will be astringent, lacking in fruit, with a raspy finish. Sometimes you may even notice a paint-thinner quality.

Still, when you catch a wine in the earliest stages of being corked there may be some doubt -- here, all I can say is that the more you taste wine, the higher sensitivity you will attain to identifying corked wines. Also, if a wine is served too cold, you may not catch the telltale aromas on the initial offering. This isn't your fault, and you are still well within your rights to send the bottle back once the defect becomes clear.

You cannot, however, discover a corked wine by smelling the cork. Many fine wines have issued forth from bottles with funky smelling corks, and vice versa.

Oxidized

Oxygen is wine's invisible enemy, and when a wine gets exposed to air, it becomes "oxidized." The result is flat, lifeless wine that loses its pretty, vibrant fruit scents and tastes insipid -- it will likely remind you of vinegar. The trained eye will also often notice a certain dullness in the color. In whites, it can be a light to dark yellow or even brownish. It is much less obvious in red wines.

Maderized

Heat is another destructive force exerted on wine, usually as a result of bad storage. When one says a wine is "maderized," this means it has been literally baked (this often happens in the holds of cargo ships as they ply the oceans in summertime). It actually tastes like Madeira. The taste will be reminiscent of almonds and candied fruits -- admirable qualities in dessert wines, but unacceptable in dry wines. You may also notice, in the unopened bottle, that the cork is pushed partly out of the neck (due to expansion within).

Re-Fermented

Fine wine is a living thing, the product of controlled fermentation. Occasionally, some residual, dormant yeasts will wake up and a wine will undergo a secondary fermentation after it has been released and shipped. This manifests itself as effervescence, or fizziness, on the tongue. Of course, this is desirable in Champagne (which is purposely re-fermented in the bottle in order to create the bubbles), but never in fine still wine.

When in Doubt

It's difficult to learn to identify these flaws just by reading about them. Only experience and time will give you the training you need to spot every defect. But, if you think a bottle is bad, ask the sommelier for confirmation. Don't be afraid -- at any reputable establishment the sommelier will not take a rejected bottle personally (not that you should care if he or she does). It is, after all, a statistical certainty that a certain percentage of wines will go bad through no fault of the restaurant. Some of these we can return to our distributors for credit; with others we'll just take the loss. We compute our wine prices with the expectation that we'll get some bad bottles. If we honestly think you're crazy, and believe with all our hearts that the bottle is perfect, we'll still take it back -- and maybe we'll have a glass later ourselves.

+++

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted

Excellent post, Steve.

An addition; send it back if wine is too warm or cold (the bottle can be accepted after bringing it to the correct temperature).

beachfan

Posted
Corks are natural products, and some microorganisms like to eat them.

I love it when explanations of potentially complicated processes are started off with a sentence as simple, correct and understandable as this one. :smile:

Posted

It is my understadning that TCA contamination does not cause a wine to lose flavor or structure, rather it is another odor that contaminates what is already there. There is not really "early" stages and "late" stages of TCA taint, it either is or is not.

In fact, if you take a bottle that is corked, pour the wine into a glass, and swirl very aggresively, you can miss the corked smell because you will raise the aroma of the wine over that of the TCA odor. When I was training, we were taught not to swirl our wine aggresively when examining the wine for defects, such as TCA, cooked, or oxidization.

When checking to see if a wine is corked, I never swirl because that could mask the cork smell temporarily.

Posted
There is not really "early" stages and "late" stages of TCA taint, it either is or is not.

In fact, if you take a bottle that is corked, pour the wine into a glass, and swirl very aggresively, you can miss the corked smell because you will raise the aroma of the wine over that of the TCA odor.

I'm with you on the second part, but are you sure corkedness is all-or-nothing and never progresses? Certainly there are instances that are much harder to detect than others. Are you saying that the moment a bad cork comes in contact with wine the wine instantly becomes as corked as it's ever going to be?

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted
I'm with you on the second part, but are you sure corkedness is all-or-nothing and never progresses? Certainly there are instances that are much harder to detect than others. Are you saying that the moment a bad cork comes in contact with wine the wine instantly becomes as corked as it's ever going to be?

No, you are correct, the musty smell is certainly stronger in some wines than others. Now, is that because the TCA taint has progressed or because it was just a worse contamination to begin with? I tend to go with the latter explanation. However, I would argue that if TCA does progress is just does so from a mild musty smell to a more severe musty smell. But, in any event if you have TCA you have that identifiable odor.

The point I disagree with is that you can have a "mild case" or "early stage" of TCA taint that only destroys the fruit and midpalate of the wine but imparts no musty or moldy smell. My experience and training tell me that if you have TCA, you have the odor, and it takes a shockingly small amount of TCA to produce the stink that ruins the wine.

Loss of fruit but no TCA stink is probably another culprit aside from "corked".

Posted
In fact, if you take a bottle that is corked, pour the wine into a glass, and swirl very aggresively, you can miss the corked smell because you will raise the aroma of the wine over that of the TCA odor.  When I was training, we were taught not to swirl our wine aggresively when examining the wine for defects, such as TCA, cooked, or oxidization.

When checking to see if a wine is corked, I never swirl because that could mask the cork smell temporarily.

this makes sense, and is something that never occurred to me. thanks!

Posted

Ron, I've checked several wine reference books this morning and couldn't get closer to an answer. Apparently, although we know a lot about it, the phenomenon of corked wine is not yet fully understood. I suppose that makes sense because if they knew everything about it they could probably solve it. In the meantime, we may have to be content with the corked wine scene from Fawlty Towers.

Steven A. Shaw aka "Fat Guy"
Co-founder, Society for Culinary Arts & Letters, sshaw@egstaff.org
Proud signatory to the eG Ethics code
Director, New Media Studies, International Culinary Center (take my food-blogging course)

Posted

Sorry for this being out of sequence, but Sherry Lehman is the only wine shop on my do not patronize list since they precisely failed to do for me what they so graciously did for Southern Girl.

I had been given an expensive burgundy (nuit st. georges if I remember accurately) that was absolutely corked, as a birthday present. It was a gift from my brother who had recently purchased it at SL but no longer had the receipt. I returned the nearly full bottle, with cork, and was told that I could have bought this anywhere and they wouldn't honor the return. I explained it was a gift but the basic response I got was "tough luck". I even managed to stay polite throughout the entire encounter, and that was difficult. I still get angry thinking about it. So, SL has now lost my business, as I told them they would, for the last several years, and I discourage others from shopping there as well.

Oh well.....

Andrew

Posted

Fat Guy is correct. TCA leaches out of the cork and the corked taste gets worse over time. If the wine is stored upright, it may never happen. Common wisdom is that wines should be stored on their sides to keep the cork moist and avoid oxidation. This makes sense, but I believe in fact has never been prooven.

Posted
Fat Guy is correct.  TCA leaches out of the cork and the corked taste gets worse over time.  If the wine is stored upright, it may never happen.  Common wisdom is that wines should be stored on their sides to keep the cork moist and avoid oxidation.  This makes sense, but I believe in fact has never been prooven.

It has been proven that the cork must stay moist for aging or it will dry out and change shape and allow the introduction of air.

A wine can be contamintaed with TCA if it is always stored upright as long as the cork is contaminated with TCA. The wine need not come in contact with the cork.

Posted
A wine can be contamintaed with TCA if it is always stored upright as long as the cork is contaminated with TCA.  The wine need not come in contact with the cork.

as quickly? where is this study?

Posted

I know of no study that gives the rate of contamination as it correlates to the angle of the bottle during storage. However, I also know of no bottles of wine in which the wine never comes into contact with the cork. Additionally, I have had wine that was transported and stored upright that was corked when opened and tasted.

Posted
Additionally, I have had wine that was transported and stored upright that was corked when opened and tasted.

are we to believe that you believe that these corked wines that you have tasted never came in contact with the cork!?!?!?! c'mon! i love ya kid, but let's try to stick with facts that are at least a *little* verifiable. if not, we should all make sure that we couch our comments as "tinged with opinion," rather than "cold hard fact."

:kiss:

Posted
are we to believe that you believe that these corked wines that you have tasted never came in contact with the cork!?!?!?!

No. This sentence in the my post, to which you refer, kind of gives it away:

"However, I also know of no bottles of wine in which the wine never comes into contact with the cork"

That means that I know of no bottles of wine in which the wine never comes into contact with the cork. Put differently, there is no such thing as a wine that has never come into contact with its cork.

That means the bottles of wine that I had that were corked and stored and shipped upright experienced at least some contact between wine and cork.

I was differentiating between bottles of wine that have MAXIMUM exposure between cork and wine (those stored on their side) and those that have MINIMUM exposure (those stored upright).

I believe that it was Marcus' point that the latter would not be corked or would be less corked, and my experience has been to the contrary.

I hope that those facts are sufficiently verifiable. :unsure:

Posted

Ron Johnson's comments are largely anecdotal and based on personal impressions. I can't quote specific studies, but there has been active discussion in the wine press on this subject. Corking is not an instantaneous process, it happens over time and gets worse over time, but it requires more than splashing the wine against the cork a few times. Today all wines are initially shipped on their sides, so all wines are in contact with the cork for a substantial period of time. If the process of shipping wines were changed such that they were shipped upright, there would be essentially no corked wines. The question then arises, what about oxidation. It would probably increase, but by how much and over what time, if ever, is not known as no study has ever been conducted. Certainly a large number of very old wines, 50+ years, are oxidized no matter how well they have been stored. This is because wine corks are imperfect, and many will admit air no matter how carefully they have been manufactured. It would take a controlled study over a long period of time to prove a difference between the normal level of oxidation over time for wines stored on their side versus upright. People who have tried this in informal studies over a few years have not been able to show a difference to my knowledge. Since corked wines are a very significant problem with a known high incidence of 3-7%, there is a real tradeoff. Another answer is plastic corks, but that's a whole nother subject.

On a previous point, Southern Girl raised the question of returning a corked bottle of wine to Sherry Lehman and her view that they did the right thing in taking it back. I'm not sure, as corked wine can be viewed as an act of god which is outside of the control of the retailer no matter how much due dilligence and best practices are employed. This then creates a question of warranty (insurance) which is ultimately paid for by the consumer. Auction houses in fact will not take back corked bottles, but will take back entire lots which can be shown to have been sold in poor condition. Restaurants will always take back a bottle, as that environment demands it, and the wines are priced accordingly. There are however, stories of the old 21 Club where old wines that the restaurant wanted to finish off were offered to favored customers for $100 with the customer accepting all risks, a very good deal. The retailer occupies a middle position and I'm not sure what the right answer is here. A high service, high markup, store such as SL will want to satisfy a customer in most cases, right or wrong. However, their prices are very high (Zachy's are even higher) and one can find the same wines, particularly grand cru Bordeaux for much lower prices. I would personally take on the risk of corkage to get the lower price. I would expect any retailer to take back a bottle if the problem were oxidation as that is their fault either in sourcing or storage.

Posted

although i've brought this up before, i'll mention that Soho Steak, in NYC, refused to refund my money for a corked bottle. although i generally don't give a crap about a shit place like that, and although i generally don't spend my keystrokes talking sh*t about a place, i will share this fact: they suck. don't ever go there. and, if the "manager" is reading this, and if i ever see him again, i will punch the shit out of his smile since he decided to charge me for 1/2 bottle of corked wine.

(had i added up the bill beforehand, i would have certainly deducted all dollars from the nasty server's tip...i still rue the day that i didn't go over that bill)

yes, i will. :smile:

looking forward to seeing him again. :biggrin: smile for the camera this time.

Posted

Marcus, my comments are anecdotal because I have cited no studies. You say that you cannot quote specific studies either. However, my comments are not based only on personal experience, but conversations with wine professionals (sommeliers, winemakers, negociants, and wine writers, as well as a manufacturer of synthetic corks) from the U.S., Italy, and France.

The only point of yours that I disagree with, and correct me if I am wrong, is that you seem to require that the wine "touch the cork" in order to be contaminated by the TCA in the cork. You go on to say that it requires more than just "splashing" against the cork, and that if all wines were shipped upright there would be no corked wines. This is wrong.

The wine does not have to touch the cork to get "corked" if there is TCA in the cork that is in the bottle. The TCA can travel the inch or two that is the ullage or headspace to infect the wine. Furthermore, the air that is in the headspace will be contaminated with TCA. I know of no study or opinion by any wine professional that the cork must be immersed in the wine in order to infect the wine with the TCA.

Finally, not all wines are shipped on their sides. Only top quality wines and those shipped by knowledgable importers such as Kermit Lynch use cases that allow the wine to rest on their side during transit and in the warehouse. The VAST majority of wine is shipped in case boxes where the wines are configured in the upright position. I know, because I have unloaded wine off trucks and seen it stored in warehouses, that these boxes are stored right-side up so the wines inside of them are upright as well. Therefore these wines have corks that were never immersed in the wine and only experienced the "splashing" that you describe. Yet these wines statistically experience the same rate of TCA infection as fine wines that have been shipped, stored, and aged on their sides.

Certainly a wine takes on a stronger musty smell the longer it is exposed to the TCA, but even a fledgling TCA infection results in this musty smell. In other words, my point is that a wine is either corked (defective) or it is not.

  • 3 weeks later...
  • 5 months later...
Posted

I would like to add an experience a group of us winos had some years ago. We got together to build a wine dinner around a 1995 Araujo Syrah. Others were to bring other cult wines to try. I brought the Araujo. Once opened we found that we felt it was corked. Though it was not as bad as other corked experiences we had had. Nothing we tried in order to make it even remotely drinkable worked. Ultimately I put the cork back in the half ful bottle and took it home in my wine carrier. On the following Monday I called Bart Araujo and related the story as I am right now. Though I never asked for anything, by Wednesday I had a replacement bottle. I thought that was classy. Approximately 30 days later and I'm not exaggerating I opened the wine carrier holding the half full bottle of Syrah. I decided to try it before I spilled it down the sink. Boy am I glad I did. It was glorious, complex, full bodied, voluptious,velvety smooth with the finish going on for what seems like ever. Though that was 3-4 years ago I can still taste the wine. If I never have a bigger richer red wine than that I would not feel deprived. I have been fortunate to have had some of the biggest Australian Shiraz's including the Three Rivers and this would not have paled by comparison. When I called Bart Araujo back and told him this story and admitted that I owed him for a bottle of 1995 Syrah, his only reaction was amazement and of course ha would not hear of being reimbursed for the bottle. One classy guy who really knows how to make spectacular wine. Am I glad I am on his mailing list. There was no question that the original bottle had corked qualities. I have never been able to explain the result and nor could Bart.

" Food and Wine Fanatic"

Posted
...it stinks like mildew.

Training a rather inexperienced staff (at another restaurant where I act as sommeliere during the summer months) on what a corked wine smells like led to one of the most spot-on comments I've ever heard. I had saved a definitely corked bottle of one of our house pours for the end of the shift and poured it side by side with a freshly opened bottle. One of the servers (who knew absolutely nothing about wine) said:

"Ewww-it smells like a dirty hot tub!'

Brilliant! Out of the mouths of babes...I've never been at a loss for words failed to explain what corked wine smells like ever again.:smile:

Katie M. Loeb
Booze Muse, Spiritual Advisor

Author: Shake, Stir, Pour:Fresh Homegrown Cocktails

Cheers!
Bartendrix,Intoxicologist, Beverage Consultant, Philadelphia, PA
Captain Liberty of the Good Varietals, Aphrodite of Alcohol

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