Homebrewers?

[cdh]

Looking at brewing kits and microbrewery plants, and it seems hard to fing anything between the two(in the UK). I would like to buy something which will produce around 50 litres a time.

I am a beginner; I want to make a strong pilsner, maybe using 20%Kent Goldrings and mainly Saaz(or UK equiv.)and a little chinook. Also some rice. Yeast will be belgian, for higher abv. Malts I am not sure about; any suggestions on what to order?

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There is some discussion of UK brewing equipment over in the eGCI Homebrewing thread. You should have a look over there. It's great that you're interested in brewing your own... come over to the class and get a feel for the process. The next lesson will introduce some of the techniques you'll need to learn for using grains like you'll need to.

As a beginner, you're way out of your depth if you want to make 50L of pilsner lager type beer without serious capital investment in brewing equipment:

- To do it successfully, you'd need two separate climate controlled spaces: a fridge or deep cellar that keeps the temperature around 50F, and a fridge that holds 34F.

- To keep it as light-colored as a commercial pilsner, you'd need to do an all-grain mash to get your fermentables, which will require a 75 liter pot to boil your mash runoff down to 50 liters, and you'll need a heating device capable of getting those 60+ liters of runoff to a rolling boil. In the UK there appears to be a trend toward using electric immersion heaters and plastic tubs, but I'd not recommend them as plastic and heat play strangely together. For a 50L sized batch, something like http://morebeer.com/product.html?product_id=15230 would do the job for you.

- You'll also need a fermentor that fits within your climate controlled spaces.

- Your hopping choices seem problematic stylistically for a Pilsner. Chinook doesn't belong in there... nor does the EK Goldings. Those are nowhere near the "noble hops" that give continental lagers the flavor you expect.

- If you use your Belgian yeast choice it will make your beer taste nothing like a Pilsner. And yeast choice has only a tiny influence on the end alcohol content of your beer. If you want a strong beer, you dump more malt and rice into it. If you want it to taste Belgian, e.g. like Stella, use Belgian Pils malt... I don't believe that there is a particular Belgian pils yeast strain.

- When mashing lots of rice, make sure to add lots of extra rice hulls to your grist, otherwise you're likely to get a stuck sparge and have trouble getting all of the fermentable sugar out of the grain bed.

- The lagering process that Pilsners go through takes months at near freezing temperatures, so if you got brewing now, you'd be ready to drink it in October or so.

- Water chemistry plays a large role in Pilsners turning out like they do, so you'll need a water analysis of your local supply, and the appropriate raft of salts and chemicals to neutralize the not-like-Pilsen water characteristics and to introduce the like-Pilsen qualities that will play right with your malt and hops.

- Brewing light lagers like Pilsner is very advanced brewing, so I'd recommend getting up to speed on the technique by brewing something else a few times to get a feel for your equipment.

[Bill Poster]

Thank you for all the info..yes I am getting a bit ambitious..Just read all that 4 times..ok..

I have access to a cellar, and I can buy a cheap tall fridge.

Agreed, don't want to use anything plastic when brewing; My local Balgladeshi supermarkets sell some of the largest steel cooking pots you ever saw, holding approx 30 litres.

If I DID use the hops I suggested, but with the malt and yeast you suggested, what would I get? The reason I ask is that I was reading about a 'Pilsner' called Tikka Gold- a very interesting product made in the UK, which uses a complicated mix of malts and hops.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Bill Poster (log)

[mtigges]

Around here (North America) it is very common to produce 10 US gallons. About 40 litres ... there's a very good reason for this number which I'll get to. For the most part, brewers convert Sankey kegs. These are the kegs that are used around here (not sure about UK) for dispensing commercial product at bars.

They look like this:

http://home.insightbb.com/~benschoep/keg/keg.jpg

eG doesn't allow embedding of img src with outside urls, sorry.

This page (where the image is) discusses opening a sankey:

Opening a sanke

Personally, I just relieve the pressure and go ahead and take my angle grinder to it.

Anyways. Brewers turn these into big pots. They hold about 60 litres. Typically you put a drain and a filter bottom for the boil kettle. I use two, one for heating hot water for the mash, and one for the boil.

They are fired with propane or natural gas burners.

Pretty simple.

The reason these are convienient, is that most serious homebrewers use Cornelius kegs. These hold almost 20 litres. So, a forty litre batch fills two kegs. This is VERY convient, since you can fill two fermenters, and use two different yeasts, different dry hops ... etc. To get two similar, but different beers.

As for lagers, I'm with cdb. I'd brew an ale first.

But if you have a spot which is naturally around 12C, that's where you ferment a lager for about 3 weeks.

Then transfer it to a keg, and put the keg in that fridge you mentioned for about another month. Done.

Lagers aren't hard, they just require different temperatures. Ales are just as difficult constraint wise ... you still need to be at the right temperature, around 20C, you don't want much more or much less. They are not less temperature sensitive, it's just that their preferred temp is very close to room temp, so they're in general easier to brew. But if you already have a cellar that is around 12C (and you have fridge space) then lagers are just as easy.

BTW, if you want to brew a pilsner with Belgian yeast ... well, not a good choice. It's kind of oxymoronic actually. There is a Belgian lager yeast (I think), but in general Pilsner yeasts are Czech/German/Swiss in origin.

I didn't read all of cdh's post, so I'm not sure if I've rehashed any info he's already related. My apologies for cluttering up the board if I did. I just wanted to encourage you to pursue lager beers ...

Mark.

[Bill Poster]

Hmm.. Its all SheenaGreena's fault, her Pilsner thread got me thinking! I would ideally like to make something of a cross between a good czech Pils such as radegast and belgian Leffe

Edited June 22, 2006 by Bill Poster (log)

[cdh]

Thank you for all the info..yes I am getting a bit ambitious..Just read all that 4 times..ok..

I have access to a cellar, and I can buy a cheap tall fridge.

You're closer to lager brewing than most then... good start!

Agreed, don't want to use anything plastic when brewing; My local Balgladeshi supermarkets sell some of the largest steel cooking pots you ever saw, holding approx 30 litres.

For a 40-50L batch, consider boiling and fermenting in two of those 30L pots. Split your fermentables between the two pots, make double hop additions, and basically mirror your actions between both pots.

If I DID use the hops I suggested, but with the malt and yeast you suggested, what would I get? The reason I ask is that I was reading about a 'Pilsner' called Tikka Gold- a very interesting product made in the UK, which uses a complicated mix of malts and hops.

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Depends on where in the boil you add the hops. The Goldings are going to give a more floral effect, which is sort of like Leffe, if you add them late in the boil. Chinooks are piney, and have serious bittering capabilities, so if you add many of them early, you'll get very strong bitterness, and if you add them late, you'll get pineyness in flavor and aroma. The Saaz are the classic Pils hop, so you want that to predominate, I'd imagine.

[TongoRad]

Hmm.. Its all SheenaGreena's fault, her Pilsner thread got me thinking! I would ideally like to make something of a cross between a good czech Pils such as radegast and belgian Leffe

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Then welcome to the club! To be able to envision something to your exact specifications and then pull it off to your satisfaction is a great reason to begin homebrewing. I'd just caution you, as the others already have, to aim a little lower at the beginning and get some successful batches under your belt before you begin experimenting.

[Bill Poster]

Thanks everyone for your advice(taken).

I have just seen a german home brewery, the smallest on the market(makes 20 litres a time), with copper brewing pot and electronic control(semi automatic). I think it is called Brumas, and it retails at 1500 sterling.

Edited June 25, 2006 by Bill Poster (log)