When is a Collins not a Collins?

[Gary Regan]

Can't speak for the creator, but I think that the guy who came up with the Dylan Collins was, perhaps, thinking of the lemon aspect of the drink when he started to experiement.  That's all I'm going to say on the subject of drink names in this thread.  I think we've worn it out!  Can we agree to disagree? 

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Hi Gary,

Can I tempt you into answering one more question about drink names?

Leaving aside the Dylan Collins and its creator, do you have any advice for people creating drinks, naming them, and convincing people to sample them?

Last holiday season, a friend and I had a cocktail party with a set drink menu of 6 or so drinks. I brought what I thought were a couple great cocktails; but, everyone wanted "something with vodka" or "Satan's Whiskers". Sadly, the batches of pineapple infused rum and "Mother-In-Law" cocktails went nearly untouched. It seemed most people's interest in "Satan's Whiskers" had nothing to do with the cocktail itself; but, only with the name. As well, their lack of interest in trying the Mother-In-Law seemed to have nothing to do with the cocktail; but, with feelings about their own Mother in Laws.

Do you have any guidelines you use yourself when coming up with names for cocktails?

-Erik

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Hi Erik:

I find coming up with names for drinks to be far harder than coming up with new recipes, though my friend FatDeko has some great ways of going about it. (How goes it, John?)

Best example I can give you is my drink, The Debonair, a simple mixture of single malt scotch & Canton ginger liqueur that I came up with in the early 90s (thus enraging scotch aficionados).

On the label of the ginger liqueur it said that ginger liqueurs had been around in China since the Xing (sp?) dynasty, so I just called it the whisky xing (pronounced "ching").

Nobody wanted a whisky xing.

The drink went through a few other names until finally I took out my thesaurus, looked up "sophisticated" and came up with The Debonair. Within a month it was on the cocktail list at Rainbow Room, and Dale told me he was using a case of malt per month just on that drink.

Everyone wanted a Debonair . . .

I made cocktails for a party over the holidays, using up ingredients I had in house that I thought would work, so I wasn't making any classic drinks at all, though I used classics as my base for the new recipes (which I didn't record).

At the party I made menus giving the drinks very simple names such as "Pear Cosmo," "Spicy Scotch Sour," etc. And this seemed to work quite well. People had a good idea what to expect since the name gave them a clue.

John "fatdeko" Myers approach, though, is, I think, the best one.

Hope this helps.

[Jack Rose]

Well, thinking of the Rathbone Sour has me going in a couple of directions. Basil Rathbone played Sherlocke Holmes on the silver screen, but I can't recall any particular choice of libation, content with his pipe.

Don't think that it involves the herb basil because of its flavor profile and really don't see it flavoring gin here, in a smash or an infusion. I heard of basil mojitos a few years back in disbelief, but being something of a curious sort, gave it a shot and will be the first one to admit that it had to be an April's Fools Day joke.

I am thinking that it is a mention to his name, referring to a bourbon sour using Basil Hadyn's. I just finished my bottle of Baker's, but that seems fitting due to Baker Street and the Sherlocke Holmes connection.

Do you want proportions, fatdeko?

[Jack Rose]

just to clarify, a bourbon sour using one of Jim Beam's specialty line of small batch Kentucky Bourbons, both Basil Hadyn's and Baker's, make sense here (Holmes lived at 221B Baker Street). I will try out the Basil Haydn's tonight for I have it here at my bar at home and tell you how it goes. I have always made my own fresh sour - 3:1 fresh lemon to lime juice, a third demerara by volume and egg white (usually one or two depending on the batch).

I guess that qualifies as my answer.

[ThinkingBartender]

Jack: you seems to thought alot about this. Basil Haydens is one of my favourite Bourbons.

As for the Basil (herb), it could be. Gin, basil, strawberry, have been used in a few cocktails in London. It does work, but not worth bragging about it.

Matchbar make a Rathbone Gardens which has Gin/ Basil/n Strawberry. Mint Leaf (indian restaurant) also had a strawberry and basil thing which I don't recall the name of.

Apparently Sherlock Holmes drank a "great deal of Brandy" (according to web searches) and was a "wine connoisseur" (again, according to web searches).

Basil infused Gin is very palatable.

However, I would hope it is the Basil Hayden Sour. yum.

Cheers!

George

[scratchline]

Say, Jack, why not throw basil syrup into a Basil or Baker's bourbon whiskey sour. If it works in a julep it should work in a sour. I like that Basil connection you came up with. Now if you can just work in the 7% solution...

[eje]

As for the Basil (herb), it could be. Gin, basil, strawberry, have been used in a few cocktails in London. It does work, but not worth bragging about it.

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There are lots of basils, and I think some might be better in cocktails than others.

I'm particularly thinking, purple thai basil, with its spicy, cinnamon-ish overtones might be nice in an infusion or cocktail.

RE: Cocktail Names

Thanks for your responses, John and Gary, they were both quite helpful and informative.

I can't think of a better theory than Jack Rose for the Rathbone Sour, so I will not hazard a guess. Though, I will note, while Holmes was Rathbone's most famous role, he appeared in many, many movies and TV shows in his long career.

[Jack Rose]

Myers, it looks like enough time has passed for appropriate responses, are you going to let us in on what makes up a Rathbone Sour? It looks like no one was correct, but I am still interested in its components and how you devised it.

[fatdeko]

Myers, it looks like enough time has passed for appropriate responses, are you going to let us in on what makes up a Rathbone Sour?  It looks like no one was correct, but I am still interested in its components and how you devised it.

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Goodness Gracious, Gents! I thought for sure that I had posted the answer and finally put this thread to bed, but alas, I may have dreamed the whole thing. My apologies.

The little Tome goes to young Mr Kinsey--both for being nearly spot on and for wasting mere minutes on the puzzle. (My point was, afterall, how a drink's name can readily drop a dime on its contents) A tip of the Hat goes to eje for his Basilology and a free drink to Jack Rose for keeping me to task and tempting us all with a BH Sour. (I'm still waiting for you and JohnnyD to pop in and put me through my paces)

Truth be told, I was reminded of the Rathbone after a Jorno queried about drinks that should have hit, but missed. I dusted off an old recipe that I could never quite get right but still had affection for. I make no claims for its quaffability.

So Sam was right as it is nothing more than a gin sour with a bit of THAI basil muddled into the simple syrup. I lean toward Thai Basil for its relative ease in muddling, ie. Thai Basil really likes to release its oils, and the flavor profile has a more pronounced anise/fennel/licorice attitude and not nearly so much "weediness" as Italian Basil. And you can't beat it for the subtle spice notes, too.

A slice of cucmber while muddling works well here too. It seems to lighten the ponderousness of the basil and cut through some of the lemon's acidity.

Recipe? I'll give you a measure-free Regan-esque version: your mileage will vary at nearly every turn.

Get some simple syrple in a mixing glass, along with some Thai Basil and a slice (or 2) of cucumber.

Muddle till your heart is content. Or, If your anything like me, stop when it's all mashed.

Add Ice and pour Hendrick's Gin over the top. Something in the neighborhood of 2 ounces should do.

Don't forget to annoint with a few dashes of some bitters. Ango works well, as does Fee's. An additional dash or tow of ROB #6 is de rigeur.

Give the whole mess a good shaking and either strain into a pre-chilled cocktail glass or right over top some crushed ice in a DOF. If you've chosen the latter, go wild with the final flourish--a grate of nutmeg, or even long pepper or (my favorite) a pinch of smoked paprika.

myers

ps: PM me Sam, so I can send you the book. Or I can just C/O it to PEGU.

[fatdeko]

Ummmm.......

That recipe should include LEMON JUICE.

I don't know how I forgot that part. Well, actually, I do. Oops.

myers

[Jack Rose]

Myers, thanks for the question and putting a few of us to task at its discovery. I had an awful episode with basil and rum, likely falling for a trick regarding a mojito variation. Basil does go well with Martini and Rossi Bianco vermouth though, but that pairing is not mine but Jody Adam's from the Rialto at the Charles Hotel in Boston.

I have planned on stopping in and am just waiting to hear back from Johnny D. I will have to come regardless to make an introduction and see Oolong for myself.

[slkinsey]

The little Tome goes to young Mr Kinsey--both for being nearly spot on and for wasting mere minutes on the puzzle.  (My point was, afterall, how a drink's name can readily drop a dime on its contents)

Woohoo!

ps:  PM me Sam, so I can send you the book.  Or I can just C/O it to PEGU.

Actually, sending it to Pegu isn't a bad idea.

[eje]

myers,

Finally got around to having all the ingredients at once and of the cocktails I offered for the fourth, your rathbone sour was the clear winner among those requested.

Delicious!

~Erik

Edited July 5, 2006 by eje (log)

[slkinsey]

Oh! Myers, I got the book. Very interesting. It currently occupies a place of honor among the cocktailian tomes at Pegu Club so others may enjoy it.