Silver Oak Bistro

[tommy]

Please tell me how he can say that the entrees are too high 

where did menton say that?

... and then make an opinion as to price versus quality.

where did he do that?

"couldn't care a fiddlers **** "

i like that.

How can you defend someone who has gone to a rest. for a $10.00 lunch once and then equates the decor with the food.

i'm not defending a person. i'm pointing out the importance of logic and reason when approaching discussions.

please don't be pissed.

Edited April 6, 2006 by tommy (log)

[whitetrufflechick]

In regards to the appearance of the dining room (paint vs. wallpaper, price-point expectations, etc), from my first dinner at Silver Oak through my most recent lunch there (if I had to guess, I'd say maybe 10 meals total), I have had plenty of time to look around the dining room and wonder about a lot of different things I see there.

Primarily, my own interpretation of the simplicity of the dining room is two-fold: 1. Mike has made no claims to be other than a small bistro (notice the name Silver Oak American BISTRO)... not Silver Oak Restaurant, Silver Oak American Fine Dining, etc. To me, Bistro implies a certain hands-on ownership where the owner might greet the customers or gee, may even paint the darn walls himself and could even be found, at times, in the kitchen.

Secondly, the simplicity of the room is an excellent contrast to the complexity of flavors the come out of the kitchen. If I'm eating something like the Grouper Therapy with Cheesy Grits or tangy barbeque, I'd prefer to be in a simple cool green room where the emphasis is more on the food and flavors.

To me, in this case, the cost of the meal is evident in the ingredients as opposed to fresh flowers on the table or impressive art on the walls.

Recently I had the opportunity to dine at The French Laundry. What struck me looking around THAT dining room was the same thing. Simplicity. Now, I'm in no way saying Silver Oak is in the same league as TFL, but then again neither would Mike (refering to his place as a bistro puts that issue to rest), but there is something to be said for simplicity in decor alongside the complex flavors of the meal.

WTC

Don't even get me STARTED on wallpaper.... I shudder at the thought of a pattern that would make Silver Oak's dining room look even smaller.

[tommy]

OK. so, WTC prefers paint, menton likes painted stencil.

[whitetrufflechick]

OK.  so, WTC prefers paint, menton likes painted stencil.

←

Ugh. Stencils are sooo early-90's

[mfeygin]

OK.  so, WTC prefers paint, menton likes painted stencil.

←

Ugh. Stencils are sooo early-90's

←

Maybe a couple of Disco Balls?

[mfeygin]

First of all if you have not tried the food and therefore cannot realize the quality being offered then price point on a web site is completely mute both pro and con.

actually, if one assumes the food is very good and knows the pricepoint one can certainly conclude "the place doesn't look as nice as it should for the level of food and pricepoint." that, i believe, is what menton is saying.

←

Thank you Hank, Tommy - thank you for translating for Menton, Chef Gary can lower the price by half and offer some frozen farmed Salmon instead of the Yukon white Salmon on the special tonight. The kitchen door is corrected. The bread is not stale (just warmed Gerbinos Semolina bread) until we start doing the corn bread. We do not get complaints about the price (after the customers try it) we get complaints about the portion size (large) - but you know that. Menton did not try any food directly prepared by Chef Gary - how does one judge? Our lunch items are priced from $8 to $12 - one cannot derive value of Dinner from that - ever.

[tommy]

mike, the restaurant is in big trouble if the kitchen can't perform to almost 100% without chef gary being there. i know that's probaby not the case, but the point is it's a weak argument. besides, menton *liked* the food. or did i miss something?

[mfeygin]

mike, the restaurant is in big trouble if the kitchen can't perform to almost 100% without chef gary being there.  i know that's probaby not the case, but the point is it's a weak argument.  besides, menton *liked* the food.  or did i miss something?

←

Tommy, not sure what restaurant you are referring to. Chef Gary does dinner and preps during lunch. I'm glad Menton liked the food but it was lunch not dinner. I just dont like for people to make comments on something that was not sampled - not a good idea. You always comment on your personal experience, why not have everyone try the same concept?

Edited April 13, 2006 by mfeygin (log)

[mfeygin]

mike, the restaurant is in big trouble if the kitchen can't perform to almost 100% without chef gary being there.  i know that's probaby not the case, but the point is it's a weak argument.  besides, menton *liked* the food.  or did i miss something?

←

PS - we are OK.

[tommy]

mike, the restaurant is in big trouble if the kitchen can't perform to almost 100% without chef gary being there.  i know that's probaby not the case, but the point is it's a weak argument.  besides, menton *liked* the food.  or did i miss something?

←

Tommy, not sure what restaurant you are referring to. Chef Gary does dinner and preps during lunch.

←

you state that chef gary was not cooking when menton was there. you also say that he wasn't in the kitchen when the poster on the mouthfulsfood forum ate there.

Menton did not try any food directly prepared by Chef Gary - how does one judge?

what i'm saying is that this shouldn't matter: the kitchen should be able to perform without the chef being there or if the chef is prepping, or whatever, and the chef's absense should certainly not be used as any sort of excuse explaining why someone might not have had a good meal.

You always comment on your personal experience, why not have everyone try the same concept?

the poster on mouthfulsfood forum and menton have both posted on their experiences at the restaurant. how can you suggest otherwise?

Thank you Hank, Tommy - thank you for translating for Menton,

actually, i was translating for hank, on menton's behalf. several people seem to have read too much into posts or accused people of saying things that they haven't, and menton, this time, isn't one of them.

i should note that it's rare that a restaurant owner or chef can come on egullet or mouthfulsfood or any other internet discussion group and meet and accept cricitism gracefully. personally, if i were an owner or a chef, i'd stay as far away from these people and their opinions as possible!

Edited April 13, 2006 by tommy (log)

[mfeygin]

mike, the restaurant is in big trouble if the kitchen can't perform to almost 100% without chef gary being there.  i know that's probaby not the case, but the point is it's a weak argument.  besides, menton *liked* the food.  or did i miss something?

←

Tommy, not sure what restaurant you are referring to. Chef Gary does dinner and preps during lunch.

←

you state that chef gary was not cooking when menton was there. you also say that he wasn't in the kitchen when the poster on the mouthfulsfood forum ate there.

Menton did not try any food directly prepared by Chef Gary - how does one judge?

what i'm saying is that this shouldn't matter: the kitchen should be able to perform without the chef being there or if the chef is prepping, or whatever, and the chef's absense should certainly not be used as any sort of excuse explaining why someone might not have had a good meal.

You always comment on your personal experience, why not have everyone try the same concept?

the poster on mouthfulsfood forum and menton have both posted on their experiences at the restaurant. how can you suggest otherwise?

Thank you Hank, Tommy - thank you for translating for Menton,

actually, i was translating for hank, on menton's behalf. several people seem to have read too much into posts or accused people of saying things that they haven't, and menton, this time, isn't one of them.

i should note that it's rare that a restaurant owner or chef can come on egullet or mouthfulsfood or any other internet discussion group and meet and accept cricitism gracefully. personally, if i were an owner or a chef, i'd stay as far away from these people and their opinions as possible!

←

LOL - good point Tommy, you guys make us better serve our customers needs - but it has to be subjective. Remember the comment cards? This is a much better way of getting feedback but not without drawbacks.

[menton1]

Uh, please quote my comments here that I made about the dinner. Maybe I missed them or can't remember any.

[Rail Paul]

you guys make us better serve our customers needs - but it has to be subjective.  Remember the comment cards? This is a much better  way of getting feedback but not without drawbacks.

←

Are you suggesting that Menton, who offered some dissenting views in his otherwise favorable comments, should confine his negatives to the comments card, while people who praise the place should do so publicly on the various foodboards?

[tommy]

you guys make us better serve our customers needs - but it has to be subjective.  Remember the comment cards? This is a much better  way of getting feedback but not without drawbacks.

←

Are you suggesting that Menton, who offered some dissenting views in his otherwise favorable comments, should confine his negatives to the comments card, while people who praise the place should do so publicly on the various foodboards?

←

i believe mike was simply drawing a parallel between comment cards (old school) and internet food forums (reform school).

what is it about this thread that causes so many otherwise bright and considerate people to completely lose their minds and miss or misinterpret every friggin point being made? maybe it's in the 'cue. that's some goooood 'cue.

Edited April 13, 2006 by tommy (log)

[Hank]

I was going to let this topic go to rest but since my name has been mentioned twice recently I feel it necessary to defend my position concerning Menton1.

In his post of April 5th he says "the pricing of SOB seems to be in the top 90% of New Jersey restaurants". I questioned where the 90% came from and received no response from him.

The same day he writes, "About the looks of the place. 5 bucks lower per entree average I might be more forgiving." Since when does decor have anything to do with the pricing of the entrees, entrees that he has as yet not tasted. YES, we all love beautful, interesting decor (Venue for one IMHO) but shouldn't a restaurant first concentrate on the food before worrying about how it looks and this place is not that terrible. Also, why just 5 bucks, why not 10 or 15 bucks while the owners are at it. Why should he feel more forgiving if he pays $15.00 for an entree instead of $20.00 when the quality of the food might and probably will be compromised if they do go down 5 bucks. Tommy, you seem as bright as they come when evaluating food on this site. Please explain all this to me. I am truly more than willing to listen and learn.

Menton1 also mentioned in the same post about the filthy door with which I could not agree with him more. That should never happen anywhere. But, I went there the following evening and the door had been cleaned and painted. Case closed. Why not just plain tell the chef and or owner instead of posting about a dirty door considering that the rest of the restaurant and kitchen are spotless. I'll bet that some people read into his comment that just maybe the rest of the restaurant might also be filthy. I know %100 that I would have.

On another site Menton1 posts that the average price of entrees are $25.00 to $28.00. PLEASE, will someone tell me where he got that info? What is his problem?

If Mike walked into my office I would have no idea who he was and I am certainly not affiliated in any way with this or any other restaurant but what IMHO are very poorly thouight out comments about SOB can only hurt a fairly new and fragile restaurant that is trying very hard to be a success in a town with many restaurants. Menton1 and everyone else on this site should realize that decor takes a lot of money and after investing in a professional kitchen there is not always any money left over to put into the walls and furniture. I'll bet that once the owners make enough money they will re-invest some of it into the decor. Until then, please Gary, just keep up with the wonderful food and Menton1, please be more considerate of honest people who are dreaming the American dream.

You love or hate the food, so yes, please post that for that is what food sites are all about but the rest is all BS.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Hank (log)

[tommy]

Please explain all this to me. I am truly more than willing to listen and learn.

i suppose i'll start with this one:

On another site Menton1 posts that the average price of entrees are $25.00 to $28.00. PLEASE, will someone tell me where he got that info? What is his problem?

entrees (from the SOB website:)

19

23

26

25

22

25

18

26

27

28

26

average = 24.09. not too far off the 25 dollar mark.

if i have time later i'll try to explain why people have lower expectations when prices are lower. honestly i don't know if i'll be able to come up with anything more simple than "people have lower expectations when prices are lower."

hank, now, i'd appreciate it if you could response to *my* queries here.

thanks in advance.

Edited April 13, 2006 by tommy (log)

[Hank]

Please explain all this to me. I am truly more than willing to listen and learn.

i suppose i'll start with this one:

On another site Menton1 posts that the average price of entrees are $25.00 to $28.00. PLEASE, will someone tell me where he got that info? What is his problem?

entrees (from the SOB website:)

19

23

26

25

22

25

18

26

27

28

26

average = 24.09. not too far off the 25 dollar mark.

if i have time later i'll try to explain why people have lower expectations when prices are lower. honestly i don't know if i'll be able to come up with anything more simple than "people have lower expectations when prices are lower."

hank, now, i'd appreciate it if you could response to *my* queries here.

thanks in advance.

←

My appologies to Menton1 as to my math. After using a calculator I came up with the same $24.09 as you did. I was surprised but numbers and calculators do not lie.

As to the questions you asked of me I believe that I answered them in prior posts and this last one. By saying 5 bucks less he feels the price is too high and lets forget the decor stuff. It doesn't swim. And how can he assume to be more forgiving if he has not tried the food and therefore does not have a clue as to the quality which I know that you know always comes at a price, especially meats and fish.

And, speaking of decor. Did anyone on this site ever go to 28 in Montclair. They had absolutely zilch decor but were packed 7 days a week and the noise level was atrocious. (A tin ceilingt no less)I have not been back since they closed for a while to renovate but I am told there is no change. I could mention so many more including NYC but I do think you understand my point. Once the plates arrive it's all about the food and may I please repeat. I have gone to many restaurants all over the world (part of growing old and being able to afford to travel) and have never, ever heard anyone say that though the food was delicious they would not go back because of the decor or setting.

With all that said Tommy, I would love to break some bread with you (after passover) and discuss some serious restaurants we have both gone to, even Hoboken.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Hank (log)

[Lutece]

Please explain all this to me. I am truly more than willing to listen and learn.

i suppose i'll start with this one:

On another site Menton1 posts that the average price of entrees are $25.00 to $28.00. PLEASE, will someone tell me where he got that info? What is his problem?

entrees (from the SOB website:)

19

23

26

25

22

25

18

26

27

28

26

average = 24.09. not too far off the 25 dollar mark.

if i have time later i'll try to explain why people have lower expectations when prices are lower. honestly i don't know if i'll be able to come up with anything more simple than "people have lower expectations when prices are lower."

hank, now, i'd appreciate it if you could response to *my* queries here.

thanks in advance.

←

This whole thread about Silver Oak is such a turn off.

What is e gullet? A site to learn about restaurants and where to go eat.

This is such catty bullshit that I now wonder what kind of people belong here and why they're being so vicious.

Constructive criticism is one thing, but I think here you've gone too far.

The web site has the prices and pics of the place.

Please just comment on the food and what u think of it all and all and stop the nonsense already.

Silver Oak is a good neighborhood place IF you like that kind of food.

Its certainly not for everyone. The end.

[tommy]

This is such catty bullshit that I now wonder what kind of people belong here and why they're being so vicious.

Constructive criticism is one thing, but I think here you've gone too far.

The web site has the prices and pics of the place.

Please just comment on the food and what u think of it all and all and stop the nonsense already.

i beg your pardon? if you don't like this discussion, don't read it. no one is making you read it, and, so far, no one is stopping you from adding your opinion.

read my thoughts on SOB here.

as far as my thoughts on this particular thread on this particular forum, where have i "gone too far"? please qualify that statement. unqualified statements are exactly what i'm railing against on this thread. unless, of course, you think that adding unualified statements actually bolsters your position or makes a point. i'll suggest that they don't.

as far as your question "what is e gullet", well, i really don't have the answer. i'm guessing it's whatever the posters define it as.

[JohnnyH]

Tommy -- off topic, but I've had a chance to read through your blog. Nice job so far; good luck.

This is an interesting thread. If nothing else, it's made me want to go to Silver Oak so I can see for myself.

[Rachel Perlow]

I am officially asking you all to please refrain from posting off topic, attacking posts of other members, or discussing other posts on other website (go to the other website to post about posts there). Please stick to discussing the food and restaurant in a civilized manner. I haven't deleted posts from this thread yet, but I may do so and/or lock this discussion if the bickering and baiting continues. Thank you.

[dumpling]

Jeepers...

The food is good. "Nough said.

Edited April 14, 2006 by dumpling (log)

[tommy]

"Nough said.

←

why? if "'nough said" was reasonable at all, this forum wouldn't need to exist. sharing opinions on decor, service, parking, whatever, is totally reasonable. and it should be expected. just because the opinions aren't popular with some people (in this case, with about 4 people), doesn't mean they aren't valid or worthy of discussion/debate/whatever you want to call it. unless, of course, the goal is to totally stifle discussion. i sure hope that's not the case.

[dumpling]

I am supporting Rachel's position to stop the bickering and baiting. That is what I mean by "Nough said." And with that I retire to my quiet little corner to munch on my lovely Picnic lobster rolls(Grilled split bun! Great accompanying taste).

Thinking fondly of the SOB BBQ'd ribs... But heck it's Friday so I will have to wait at least until tomorrow.

Have a lovely day folks. Eat well...

[tommy]

I am supporting Rachel's position to stop the bickering and baiting.  That is what I mean by "Nough said."  And with that I retire to my quiet little corner to munch on my lovely Picnic lobster rolls(Grilled split bun!  Great accompanying taste).

Thinking fondly of the SOB BBQ'd ribs...  But heck it's Friday so I will have to wait at least until tomorrow.

Have a lovely day folks.  Eat well...

←

in *that* case, i'm definitely all for no-baiting no-bickering and civility. and i'm definitely all for somehow getting my hands on Picnic's lobster roll.

and i'm definitely thinking tonight is a great night for some SOBBQ (pronounced "ESS OH BEE bee que"), given the dreariness that is NJ at this time.