Citrus on seafood?

[Kent Wang]

It seems to a be a Western tradition to drizzle some lemon on seafood. I can't stand it myself, and I don't believe it is practiced at all in China or even all of Asia. Do all Western cuisines combine citrus with seafood? Why? Was it done originally to mask the "fishy" taste?

[BryanZ]

I wouldn't say Asian cuisines don't combine citrus with seafood. For example, Japanese cuisine employs yuzu, a bitter vibrant citrus, with many types of fish.

Edit to add: Thai uses lots of lime and tamarind, which is kind of citrusy with seafood dishes.

Edited October 16, 2005 by BryanZ (log)

[Gifted Gourmet]

The fishy flavor can be minimized by using lemon juice or any citrus juice and it certainly "sharpens" and enlivens the (possibly) otherwise bland taste of some fish .. maybe ... in a fried fish dish, citrus cuts through the oily tastes as well.

[ladyyoung98]

frankly if the fish has a "fishy taste' or even a fishy smell, i personally would not touch it as that is an indicator it has gone or is going bad.

Edited October 16, 2005 by ladyyoung98 (log)

[Adam Balic]

It seems to a be a Western tradition to drizzle some lemon on seafood. I can't stand it myself, and I don't believe it is practiced at all in China or even all of Asia. Do all Western cuisines combine citrus with seafood? Why? Was it done originally to mask the "fishy" taste?

←

No, it's done to enhance the flavour, as simple as that. The is actually quite good quality fish in some parts of the West, without fishy taste. Not all Western cultures do this either and in the UK were citrus fruit do not grow on trees, malt vinegar is used. Interesting to know that there may be a cultural preference for this, I would have thought a preference for an acid with food was quite universal.

[Kent Wang]

Interesting to know that there may be a cultural preference for this, I would have thought a preference for an acid with food was quite universal.

←

In Chinese cuisine, vinegar is indeed used as a dipping sauce when eating dumplings. Chinese cuisine rarely uses citrus outside of desserts and pastries.

[FistFullaRoux]

According to Alton Brown, (IIRC), lemon was originally used to "dissolve" bones stuck in the throat of the eater. The acid didn't really melt the bones, of course, but the action of sucking on a slice of lemon did often dislodge the offender.

From there it became customary to include a slice of lemon on a plate of fish, and from there it became common to squeeze the lemon onto the fish iteself.

[Adam Balic]

Yep, when I am choking to death on a bone, I often think to suck on a slice of lemon.

[sazji]

Here it seems to be a recent fashion to say "never, never, never put lemon on fish." They say it "masks" the flavor of the fish. I think it's one of those things that Turkish yuppies heard and repeat to show how cultured they are. A friend from Greece was visiting and asked for some lemon to put on his fish; someone at the table fed him the "never never put lemon" line and he nearly exploded in a gush of nationalism; something along the lines of "We have been eating fish here for thousands of years, and now you Huns off the steppes are going to tell me how I should eat it? You don't even have your own words for fish, you use ours for God's sake!!!" Luckily he said it in a tounge-in-cheek enough way that people laughed instead of being offended. But aside from the Hun part, I had to agree with him, and squeezed lemon on my own too as our friends tut tutted and mourned the culinary ectasy we were forfeiting.

(I'm actually one of those people who thinks people should be able to put anything on their food they like, if they like it. Even ketchup. As long as it's not on food that I've cooked.)

[Tess]

Is ponzu not used on fish in Japan?

[Pan]

frankly if the fish has a "fishy taste' or even a fishy smell, i personally would not touch it as that is an indicator it has gone or is going bad.

←

We didn't have that luxury in rural Malaysia in the 1970s, without 24-hour electricity and, therefore, without refrigeration. The procedure was to buy fish that had been caught that day, make a curry (or some other dish with sauce) out of it that evening and thoroughly reheat and eat leftovers for a few days. Or fry it up that evening. But considering how hot the weather was and how bio-active equatorial ecosystems are, even something caught that morning might be a bit fishy that evening. "Why didn't they pack it in ice?", you're probably wondering. Well, ice had to be trucked in from the capital as a big block and packed in an unrefrigerated wooden bin. Only one place in the township did that: The coffee shop at the crossroads. So no ice for the fishermen or the guy who vended the fish from his bicycle.

Back to the topic of this thread: Lime juice wasn't a necessary ingredient for fish or seafood there. Fresh tamarind (asam gelugor) was frequently used, but the most common thing was to use plenty of spices.

[ladyyoung98]

frankly if the fish has a "fishy taste' or even a fishy smell, i personally would not touch it as that is an indicator it has gone or is going bad.

←

We didn't have that luxury in rural Malaysia in the 1970s, without 24-hour electricity and, therefore, without refrigeration. The procedure was to buy fish that had been caught that day, make a curry (or some other dish with sauce) out of it that evening and thoroughly rehead and eat leftovers for a few days. Or fry it up that evening. But considering how hot the weather was and how bio-active equatorial ecosystems are, even something caught that morning might be a bit fishy that evening. "Why didn't they pack it in ice?", you're probably wondering. Well, ice had to be trucked in from the capital as a big block and packed in an unrefrigerated wooden bin. Only one place in the township did that: The coffee shop at the crossroads. So no ice for the fishermen or the guy who vended the fish from his bicycle.

Back to the topic of this thread: Lime juice wasn't a necessary ingredient for fish or seafood there. Fresh tamarind (asam gelugor) was frequently used, but the most common thing was to use plenty of spices.

←

actually it never occurred to me to wonder why you didnt pack it in ice. im smart enough to realize the problems of rural malaysa. when one does not have electricity for a prolonged period of time, you cant make ice. the same thing applies here even in the united states. case in point...hurricane katrina and hurricane rita. both knocked out power for prolonged periods of time. and granted the places they hit were evacuated but even so had they not been, no way would they have been able to produce ice. simple as that.

but i already made my point with regards to smelly fish and what it implies. if you can smell it as fish...it is going bad. im talking more about raw fish than the cooked variety, but even cooked fish can go off, it just takes longer.

Edited October 17, 2005 by ladyyoung98 (log)

[highchef]

actualy, under extreme circimstances you can get creative with fish.Hey, 2 day with gumbo, you want to eat something else. Hello cerviche' (You know my spelling sucks) And eveyone ate well...hell, there was beautiful redfish, and tuna. Oh, this is sad...but we had a dozen limes and lemons and we ate well. And FEMA kept us in ice and water...that's the key to cooking. or surviving.

[Megan Blocker]

(I'm actually one of those people who thinks people should be able to put anything on their food they like, if they like it.  Even ketchup.  As long as it's not on food that I've cooked.)

←

That's right - don't yuck someone else's yum.

Unless it's really nasty.

[Pan]

[...]but i already made my point with regards to smelly fish and what it implies.  if you can smell it as fish...it is going bad. im talking more about raw fish than the cooked variety, but even cooked fish can go off, it just takes longer.

←

I don't disagree with your point, but throwing out nutritious, edible food is a big luxury. We never got sick from fish that was a little off, because it was cooked through and through with the water of a cold well that nevertheless had worms in it, like all other uncooked fresh non-tap water in the region (no tap water except in cities in those days). Our neighbors were scandalized when we fed the cat we were taking care of some dried fish -- that's people food! And speaking of dried fish, we deliberately let that rot, yet we eat it without getting sick. Bacalao, baccala', dried anchovies -- not to mention fish sauce and shrimp paste. So we really aren't in disagreement, but there are different ways of looking at things.

[PPPans]

Citrus i.e. kalamansi/calamondin is commonly used with seafood in the Philippines. Not only in kilo/kinilaw which is a type of ceviche but also as a dipping sauce. It is even combined with bagoong or fermented shrimp fry to make an excellent condiment for steamed or broiled fish and vegetables.

[Mimi Sheraton]

Ginger is the lemon of Asia in preparing fish, and for the same reason - an astringent touch to clean up any lingering hints of excessive fishiness

[Carlovski]

Anything fried works particularly well with lemon - calamari, whitebait and good old fish and chips.

[sazji]

That's right - don't yuck someone else's yum.

Unless it's really nasty. 

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Perfect! Mind if I use that as my signature quote?

Edited October 22, 2005 by sazji (log)

[chefzadi]

asia is a large diverse continent. i can't think of a single korean fish dish that requires ginger. sure it's added sometimes to soy sauce based sauces, but it's not an automatic thing. my favorite korean fish preparations are the pan fried salted fish, which is actually quite fishy.

it seems to me though that throughout the world fish dishes have some sort of astringegent/acidic component or is salt preserved.

[Chris Amirault]

Farid, do any Korean dishes use citrus of any kind?

[Milagai]

Indian seafood dishes I can

think of, (whether tandoori or amritsari maach of the North

or seafood + coconut dishes of the South or similar dishes

of the East) almost always include some souring agent,

ranging from lemon juice to tomato to yogurt to tamarind to kokum.

Ginger is a frequent addition...

Milagai

[touaregsand]

Farid, do any Korean dishes use citrus of any kind?

←

Off the top of my head I can think of teas and I know that some kimchi preparations have citrus but it's not a common thing. I have think about it a bit more, again because it's not a common thing.