La Dua (Vietnamese) = Pandan (English)?

[hzrt8w]

I have been on a mission to make the green-jelly like substance they put in a "three color shaved ice" in some Vietnamese restaurants. The shaved ice is composed of red beans (red), mung beans (yellow), and this green-jelly like substance (green).

In another thread, I learned that this green-jelly like substance is made by boiling pandan leaves and adding sugar and agar-agar (leaves discarded before cooling).

I tried shopping for fresh pandan leaves in a local Vietnamese/Chinese grocery market. I could only find one package that does resemble the picture of pandan leaves that I saw. The packet does not have English nor Chinese label. It does have a Vietnamese label: La Dua. I did also find some canned green extracts labelled "La Dua" and the picture on the can does resemble pandan leaves.

Question: Does La Dua (Vietnamese) mean Pandan in English?

Is this what I can use to make the green-jelly in 3-color shaved ice?

[SuzySushi]

Yes, La Dua = Pandan according to Gernot Katzer's Spice Dictionary.

Maybe some of the Malaysians on eGullet can weigh in with more information.

[hzrt8w]

Yes, La Dua = Pandan according to Gernot Katzer's Spice Dictionary.

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Thanks for the link to the dictionary, Suzy. That's very handy!

[SuzySushi]

I use it all the time... It's infuriating to find out that some unfamiliar ingredient is something I knew all along, but by a different name. I also like that he has photos, so I can identify what's really unfamiliar!

[Apicio]

I have a few questions about pandan myself. What is the optimum way of extracting the flavour from fresh pandan blades? What quantity of water, what intensity of heat, and for how long? I know that pandan extract is available but it would be very helpful to know if it is available as a colourless flavoring. The kelly green colour is a big turn-off for me. Reminds me too much of Saint Patrick’s day celebration related food and drink items. Lastly, a tip: using regular unflavoured gelatin instead of the agar-agar yields a more resilient jell which can also be added to tropical fruit salad with strands of young coconut and those tiny ovoid chewy toddy palm meat (you can get as sweet kaong in Filipino stores).

[trillium]

I think the frozen pandan leaves from Thailand (you will find them in the herb section in the freezer) have a lot more flavor then the fresh ones from Hawaii we can buy here in the US (same for galangal). Your questions about heat and water really depend on your leaves, you know? Start by knotting up a bunch and barely covering them with water. Bring to a very low simmer, and you decide when it's done or if you need more water or more pandan. The pandan extract barely resembles its namesake in flavor (kind of like banana extract), and is usually to be avoided, unless you really love the Hale's Blue Boy green syrup flavor or green Fanta makes your heart beat faster. In that case, buy away, and throw some banana extract and fake basil seed flavor in while you're at it!

The deal with gelatin is that it isn't as stable at hot temps, it melts again, while agar agar just thumbs it's nose at the heat and humidity once it has gelled. Plus gelatin is a beef product, while agar is a nice safe seaweed!

regards,

trillium

Edited July 26, 2005 by trillium (log)

[Apicio]

Thanks Trillium. No, I don't like that colour at all.

[anzu]

If you are going to use a commercial extract, there is a Thai extract available which does not have that brilliant green color.

It's labelled as Bai Toey extract, or Bai Toey Flavoring. Bai Toey is of course the Thai for pandan, and may be spelt slightly differently, as there is no standard transliteration in use for Thai words.

It's a very pale green, watery-looking extract, and smells a little different from the bright green Indonesian one. It still doesn't smell too much like the real stuff, though.

I'm not sure if this is how they are making it for the Vietnamese recipe, but I have a few Indonesian kueh recipes where they say to mash the raw leaves to a fine paste (I've used a food processor) with the amount of (cold) water you need for the finished dish, then strain this paste to remove all the leaf solids. I've tried it a few times and the first time ended up with a liquid so strong that it smelt and tasted almost medicinal. The first time was about ten leaves with half a cup of water, I think? After that I used less, but don't remember exactly how much.

I do think that you will probably get a more intense green color if you do it this way, or maybe if you do some combination of boililng some of the pandan and mashing and straining some of it.

Trillium, now I'm curious. Do they really have fake basil seed flavor, or was it just sarcasm? (Not that I'm about to rush out to buy it if it does exist, but still, it's nice to know of the weird and wonderful things that exist in this world.)

[Apicio]

Thanks anzu for another good thought. Now instead of just tying the pandan blades into a knot I am going to try mincing it first. See if it yields a more intense flavour faster. While still on topic, did you know that the scent of pandan is actually the whiff you get when a breeze passses through a rice field close to harvest time? This is also one of the reasons why South East Asians throw a small blade in to their pot when they cook rice from the previous harvest, presumably to restore the newly harvested fragrance that has faded. Tisane made from pandan also goes very well with the various rice-based snacks (kuehs) we have there.

[anzu]

Thanks anzu for another good thought.  Now instead of just tying the pandan blades into a knot I am going to try mincing it first.  See if it yields a more  intense flavour faster.  While still on topic, did you know that the scent of pandan is actually the whiff you get when a breeze passses through a rice field close to harvest time?  This is also one of the reasons why South East Asians throw a small blade in to their pot when they cook rice from the previous harvest, presumably to restore the newly harvested fragrance that has faded.  Tisane made from pandan also goes very well with the various rice-based snacks (kuehs) we have there.

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You're referring to the scent of the so-called jasmine rice, right? (I've called it 'so-called' because I always thought it would be better called pandan rice!). I personally find that the pandan smell is still pretty strong even when cooking older jasmine rice. In fact, after really overdoing it with the pandan essence from minced leaves the first time I tried making it, I actually had to avoid jasmine rice for a while and cook other types of rice, because the scent reminded me so much of my overly strong essence. I did get over it.

I presume the tisane you mentioned is made by pouring boiling water over pandan leaf, and then sweetening with sugar? Or does the pandan actually need to be boiled for a brief period?

[mudbug]

Tangent: this recipe looks good...

Agar-agar Black Beauty

http://www.kuali.com/recipes/viewrecipe.asp?r=461

[Apicio]

Anzu, I make the tisane here by boiling a knot of two or three blades of pandan in water. Its ready as soon as the water gets that greenish tinge. I use the pandan knot for several pots. You know, until its no longer imparting any flavour. Simply steeping the pandan blades does not scent the hot water at all. Incidentally, this tisane is the traditional accompaniment to our rice cake that is served around Christmas time in the Philippines.

Now, the jasmine rice that are so ubiquitous now-a-days did not exist thirty years ago. You smelled this scent on almost all varieties of rice but only when they were newly harvested. This new persistent flavour is probably a result of, once again, genetic engineering of the scientists of the IRRI (the International Rice Research Institute). I guess they learned their lesson because they concentrated their efforts, at first, at developing high yield rice and were quite successful with a particular strain that they called “miracle rice.” But it was absolutely bereft of flavour that people said that it would indeed be a miracle if anyone liked it.

[trillium]

Trillium, now I'm curious.  Do they really have fake basil seed flavor, or was it just sarcasm? (Not that I'm about to rush out to buy it if it does exist, but still, it's nice to know of the weird and wonderful things that exist in this world.)

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I haven't seen any for sale here in the US, but I did see some in the bigger, fancy grocery stores in Thailand! At least I guessed that was what it was, it was with all the other extracts and had pictures of basil seeds on the bottle. But mostly I was just being sarcastic about the green Hale Blue Boy syrup.

regards,

trillium