Striped Bass

[Kim WB]

I went with my husband to Striped Bass last week, after the Flower Show. We had a 6pm reservation.

I am one of those people that feel that large spaces need to be "warmed up" if you want anything more than a nightclub or cafeteria vibe. I don't feel that this was accomplished, and felt the room was cold and unwelcoming. there are some wonderful structural touches: the ceiling, specifically, is inlaid wood..but ruined with highhat lights shining down. The bar was busy with an after work crowd. I was glad to be seated opposite the bar, up a few steps to a small balcony/alcove area...more intimate.

We got the inquiry when we arrived.".have you been here before? This is how it works..."What did I look like I'd never eaten out before? Perhpas it was our waiter's tone, but it was almost school teacher like.

We ordered a chianti, my husband was not happy with the selection of Italian reds...and we got the schoolteachers' stamp of approval: oh, chiantis are her FAVORITE wine!!!!! well, SUPER!!!!! aaaagggghhhhh....especially since they were out of the wine. In these days of nstant inventory and laser printers, there is absolutely no excuse to be out of a wine at 6pm on a Wednesday night.

I started w/the foie gras, which was good. The pomegrante seeds accessorizing it were difficult to eat, and the foie was a bit too cool..I would have preferred it to be served hotter. My husband had the yellowfin tartare, whcih is notable because it uses larger chunks of tuna instead of the finely diced pieces in a traditional tartare presentation. Tartare had excellent flavor, nice gingery dressing. I'm personally bored to death by tuna appetizers..seared, tartared, flambayed, pureed, or made into sorbet...alright already with the tuna! Of course, my foie gras predictability might bore some, I admit.

My husband had the crispy bass with chorizo...a bit bland, chorizo was more like smoked sausage without spices...I had the Philly Cheese Skate special, Skate as the roll, short ribs interior, parmesan cheese sauce.

Skate was overcooked, ribs were really more like bbq shredded beef, and the sauce was fantastic. Together, it was a disaster. there ws no way that any cook in that open kitchen, from Portale to the garde manger, tasted this dish before they put it on the special list. Even if every compnent was excellent, as a complete dish it did not work. No balance, no textural interest, not even a presentation/color interest...pretty close to inedible. I swirled the overcooked fish around in the cheese sauce..made it palatable.

I had a very good creme caramel for dessert, and a lovely glass of ice wine.

Noise level increased as we dined, but not to an uncomfortable level. Again, I was glad to be on the mezzanine level, as I watched the difficulty of the hostess seating people on the ground floor level, trying to shimmy her size 4 through the tables and chairs. My double digit sized butt would have really been in trouble.

And, there is the strangest set up, a glass screen that seperates the diners closest to

the door and hostess stand..there was a woman eating with her coat on on the other side of the screen.

the wine was in the neighborhood of $100, two apps, two entrees, 1 dessert, 1 ice wine, 1 brandy, $380 w/tip .

[Lreda]

Kim,

Didn't Alfred Portale take on the position of consulting chef here recently. I've eaten at Gotham B&G twice in the last year and have been disappointed. It used to be my favorite place in NYC. Too bad about Striped Bass as I intended to eat here while in Philly to see The Mets.

[philadining]

Thanks for that review Kim,

It's always interesting to hear how things hit people differently. Of course the food can be different from night to night, and you could have a server who got up on the wrong side of the bed, etc, but it always fascinates me how more static things like decor and overall feel of a place will have such varying impacts.

I think the space is pretty spectacular, I sat directly opposite to where you were sitting, up on the raised area, but on the same side as the bar. It felt somehow cozy over there. I think they reacted to some early complaints about the drapes obscuring the beautiful windows, when I was there, they were pulled-back so we could indeed see the details of the glass and framing, but also had the warming effect of the plush gray drapes.

I had that "cheeseskate" as an appetizer, and I wonder if the smaller size is a more appropriate setting for this. My skate was perfectly cooked, and perhaps I would have tired of it as a main course, but I thought all the flavors meshed really nicely, especially pulling some of those grilled onions and trumpet mushrooms into the mix. My skate had some nice crunch from panko crumbs, so I had some good textural variety going on too. I suppose it shouldn't be surprising, but it was eerily reminiscent of an actual cheesesteak, and I mean that as a compliment...

Our main courses were really quite vibrant, not a dull moment on those plates, which were the Escolar and a special of scallops and sweetbreads.

The sommeliere recommended a wine that they did have in the cellar, and it was just perfect. So good, that in fact, I'm ready to defend her honor on the dueling grounds!! Name your weapons, I 'll see you at dawn! OK, that's probably just the wine talking, but she did suggest a truly amazing French Burgundy, and I'll be forever in her debt for opening my eyes to that particular wine.

I completely understand that food and service might vary from night to night, and that something that impressed me might leave you cold, so I'm not discounting your opinion. But for the record, I really enjoyed my last meal there, especially the wine and the cheeseskate. I don't know that I'd bother ordering the cheeseskate again, but I did like it! Sorry to hear you were less impressed.

Edited March 15, 2005 by philadining (log)

[Kim WB]

hmmm, that is interesting. I was there on Wednesday... I can certainly see how the space can impress when you first walk in..but what about the main floor? Do you feel the lighting was complimentary to that particular space? And how ugly is that fish sculpture? Disconcerting, at least to me. I guess, to me, it was a cool space poorly designed for a restaurant. would be a really cool bar or club.

When were you there? Because I'm wondering if the skate special was a dinner special before or after it was an app special. I can't defend that dish..it failed in so many ways for me...the panko provided no texture. The short ribs tastd like they were in bottled sauce...overly salted. The ribs overpowered the fish...no balance.

We did not have a sommelier, our waiter took and served our wine selection. My husband felt that the list was unexciting and traditional, in the "fish with white wine" kind of way. I can't defend his opinion, but the he's a 1000+ bottle collector so he can usually work his way thru a wine list pretty easily. There is no way to defend presenting a wine list and being out of a selection during the first seating on a Wed nite, IMHO.

Lacroix, Vetri, LBF..in my opinion, all head and shoulders above Striped Bass.

[cinghiale]

Thanks for the report, Kim.

I'd been considering going, but I am somewhat averse to the Starr emporium, having never had an outstanding meal at any of his outposts (OK, other than Morimoto). Esp. at those price levels, I'm backburnering that visit.

I disagree about the space, though (at least, as rendered under the Stein regime): I think it's pretty spectacular and is a suitable stage for what should be terrific food. I have problems getting relaxed in "cozy" settings, like 21, Oceana, Bar Lyonnais.

[sadistick]

This post really makes me re-think my dinner reservations here....Maybe I should go for Vetri, or Lacroix instead....Hmm....

Anyone have a phone # for Vetri?

[Kim WB]

I disagree about the space, though (at least, as rendered under the Stein regime):  I think it's pretty spectacular and is a suitable stage for what should be terrific food.  I have problems getting relaxed in "cozy" settings, like 21, Oceana, Bar Lyonnais.

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Not to belabor the point, but the conversation about the space intrigues me. I'll agree its a spectacular space, and anyone walking in would most likely agree. But then, as a diner, there are so many flaws: the weird "table by the front door , protected from the frigid weather by a smoked glass 6 foot freestanding screen" and, I don't know, maybe 700 square foot main dining area, tables close together and arranged in rows, nothing to soften the space to make it look less like a cafeteria...grantd, a restored beautiful cafeteria with vaulted wood ceiling and magnificent soaring windows, but still, row upon row of tables and chairs..I think you especially notice this when the restaurant is not very full. Finally..am I the only one who thinks the fish ( which is not, btw, a striped bass) is incongruent to the rest of the space?

[Kim WB]

This post really makes me re-think my dinner reservations here....Maybe I should go for Vetri, or Lacroix instead....Hmm....

Anyone have a phone # for Vetri? 

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I thought LaCroix was wonderful, but went with a group and did not expereince wine service, list, pricing, value, etc, as I was a guest. I am returning in a few weeks, just a foursome, and will throw my 2 cents into the ring after that visit. I never review a restaurant based on a business dinner..wrong vibe to really realize what the restaurant is offerring or lacking.

[shacke]

I can't remember where I said this but I will say it again. I don't think the new Striped Bass is like the old one. I have so many other places to go to that it doesnt hurt that I wont return. Now remember who you are hearing this from folks - the one schnookie in town who doesnt care for Vetri and Django

(is admitting that against the patriot act ?).

The new Striped Bass restaurant gets mixed reviews and it may indeed be "when you went" which is a bad sign for a restaurant - consistency is an elusive dream for many.

Sorry to hear you did not enjoy yourself, Kim.

[philadining]

.. I can certainly see how the space can impress when you first walk in..but what about the main floor?  Do you feel the lighting was complimentary to that particular space?

I was there on a thursday, I think, and kind of late, so it was pretty empty, and I assume that's why they seatedus up on the edge, so we wouldn't feel so overwhelmed on that big floor. I'd imagine it feels fine when it's full. I don't love the lighting fixtures themselves, but the lighting where we sat was nice....

And how ugly is that fish sculpture? Disconcerting, at least to me.

I guess this demonstrates the ephemeral nature of aesthetics... I love the fish...

When were you there?  Because I'm wondering if the skate special was a dinner special before or after it was an app special.  I can't defend that dish..it failed in so many ways for me...the panko provided no texture.  The short ribs tastd like they were in bottled sauce...overly salted.  The ribs overpowered the fish...no balance.

This has been a frequent special for quite some time, commented on (positively) by LaBan in the Philly Inquirer back shortly after the reopening.

We did not have a sommelier,  our waiter took and served our wine selection.  My husband felt that the list was unexciting and traditional, in the "fish with white wine" kind of way.  I can't defend his opinion, but the he's a 1000+ bottle collector so he can usually work his way thru a wine list pretty easily.  There is no way to defend presenting a wine list and being out of a selection during the first seating on a Wed nite, IMHO.

Whew...OK I can put away my dueling pistols... I can't say that I'm enough of an enophile to make pronouncements on the depth of the list, but, for example, we were steered toward a lovely (red) Beaune with our fish, and it was really perfect.

Lacroix, Vetri, LBF..in my opinion, all head and shoulders above Striped Bass.

I'm not arguing with your experience, but it saddens me to see people considering changing their plans. I thought my meal at Striped Bass was every bit as good as Lacroix, which I loved too. Haven't made the LBF plunge. Can't seem to ever plan ahead enough to schedule Vetri.

Craig LaBan gave it 3 bells last august

review here (may require registration) and did comment that he thought it was a bit cold and stiff, but seemed to like the food (and the wine list) .

Again, different strokes... but my guest and I thought it was one of the best meals we'd had in Philly.

[R Washburn]

Craig LaBan gave it 3 bells last august

Given what an easy grader LaBan is, I wouldn't expect a great deal from a "3 bell" restaurant.

[Kim WB]

This has been a frequent special for quite some time, commented on (positively) by LaBan in the Philly Inquirer back shortly after the reopening.

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Thanks for your response, interesting thread....this is also intriguing..there were no other specials except for the Philly Steak, and its apparantly an "all the time " special. do you think he excludes it from the menu because the play on words is better understood when explained verbally? Or that he doesn't want to put a whimsically named dish on an otherwise serious menu? do you agree that an every day special is not particularly special?

Lou, addressing your specific comment, Portale is indeed there, he was in the open kitchen the night I was there. I also had some very very good Portale meals over the years.

[KatieLoeb]

In these days of instant inventory and laser printers, there is absolutely no excuse to be out of a wine at 6pm on a Wednesday night.

Oh I don't know about this. Speaking as one who deals with the same system that Striped Bass does (and indeed did it for them a while back), the restaurant is somewhat at the mercy of deliveries to the local PLCB warehouse or store from which it picks up it's wine and liquor. There is no "instant inventory" in this state. Certain purveyors only deliver on certain days of the week. Some only deliver ONCE per week, so even if the restaurant runs out of a certain product on Tuesday night and orders it Wednesday AM, if the company only delivers on Wednesdays, then it will be a full week before that product comes in again. It might be a day or two before the entire wine list is reprinted to correct that (and presumably a few other) unavailable item(s) or it's like slaying an entire forest every day to keep up with the out of stock items. In an upscale restaurant that paper can be expensive and the process can be very time consuming with double sided copies and pages having to line up just so. Believe me - I've gotten a few gray hairs over it myself. A diner might have no problem changing the daily special sheet on Staples plain white copy paper - but it's much more of a production at the higher end.

And how ugly is that fish sculpture? Disconcerting, at least to me.

There was a rumor after the sale of Striped Bass that Stephen Starr was planning to motorize the giant fish sculpture and turn it into the world's largest "Big Mouth Billy Bass" that would turn it's head and belt out Take Me to the River periodically during dinner.

For the record, I like the fish sculpture just as it is.

[shacke]

There was a rumor after the sale of Striped Bass that Stephen Starr was planning to motorize the giant fish sculpture and turn it into the world's largest "Big Mouth Billy Bass" that would turn it's head and belt out Take Me to the River periodically during dinner. 

For the record, I like the fish sculpture just as it is.

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The artist, who is a tremendous talent and is getting tired of being asked to do "animals" after that piece, is my across the street neighbor. The nicest human being in the world - kind that is so nice you want to teach them to fight or something. I know it's off topic but everything we see has a "history" behind it and that big fish is no exception. http://www.phillipsmetal.com

And Katie - do all PA restaurants HAVE to get their wine through PLCB?? What about small "micro-vineyards" or other small outfits that are not carried by the state? These entities are a big drive behind trying to repeal the interstate alcohol laws (US supreme court case, Swedenburg v Kelly, is the big case to be decided in June, I hear)

OK - enough off current topic - Katie's response made me think of it - sorry sorry sorry, mods -back to striped bass....

Evan

[KatieLoeb]

And Katie - do all PA restaurants HAVE to get their wine through PLCB?? What about small "micro-vineyards" or other small outfits that are not carried by the state? These entities are a big drive behind trying to repeal the interstate alcohol laws (US supreme court case, Swedenburg v Kelly, is the big case to be decided in June, I hear)

By "micro-vineyards" I presume you mean places like Chaddsford winery and such. We can deal directly with them, but only the ones IN PA. If a smaller winery doesn't have a purveyor that represents them in Pennsylvania, I cannot buy that product for the restaurant. Period. Could lose the liquor license for doing so, in fact.

That Supreme Court case is about wineries shipping directly to consumers, not for "wholesale" customers such as restaurants. But if that loosens up (and I pray daily that it does, since the arguments against it made by the large purveyors are specious at best), hopefully it will ease restrictions on wholesale purchasing next. No reason a restaurant with a corporate credit card couldn't be a "consumer" - except for that pesky resale thing, of course...

[Capaneus]

And Katie - do all PA restaurants HAVE to get their wine through PLCB?? What about small "micro-vineyards" or other small outfits that are not carried by the state? These entities are a big drive behind trying to repeal the interstate alcohol laws (US supreme court case, Swedenburg v Kelly, is the big case to be decided in June, I hear)

By "micro-vineyards" I presume you mean places like Chaddsford winery and such. We can deal directly with them, but only the ones IN PA. If a smaller winery doesn't have a purveyor that represents them in Pennsylvania, I cannot buy that product for the restaurant. Period. Could lose the liquor license for doing so, in fact.

That Supreme Court case is about wineries shipping directly to consumers, not for "wholesale" customers such as restaurants. But if that loosens up (and I pray daily that it does, since the arguments against it made by the large purveyors are specious at best), hopefully it will ease restrictions on wholesale purchasing next. No reason a restaurant with a corporate credit card couldn't be a "consumer" - except for that pesky resale thing, of course...

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Well, for reason's I don't quite understand, the plaintiffs in Swedenburg elected to challenge the NY statute on a fairly narrow violation of Interstate Commerce. However, there are a number of other cases working their way through the lower courts that are argued on much broader Commerce Clause grounds (see link for handy precis). It is likely the Seven Wise People Plus Scalia And Thomas will elect to dispatch them all with a single decision. If that is the case, your situation should be addressed as well. In fact, even a fairly narrow decision should force the PLCB to allow wineries they do not carry already the means to do business within the Commonwealth.

Or not. I'm an amateur lawyer at best.

http://www.techlawjournal.com/courts/swedenburg/Default.htm

[SG-]

We got the inquiry when we arrived.".have you been here before?  This is how it works..."What did I look like I'd never eaten out before?  Perhpas it was our waiter's tone, but it was almost school teacher like. 

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typical starr restaurant training .... you'll experience this at pretty much all his places... in addition to their attempts to "educate" you on their menu and "chef recommended" methods of dining ..

[philadining]

We got the inquiry when we arrived.".have you been here before?  This is how it works..."What did I look like I'd never eaten out before?  Perhpas it was our waiter's tone, but it was almost school teacher like. 

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typical starr restaurant training .... you'll experience this at pretty much all his places... in addition to their attempts to "educate" you on their menu and "chef recommended" methods of dining ..

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Yeah that can get a bit annoying, but I almost see the point of it at some spots, like Pod, that really do work better as big group-sharing meals. Letting people know that the entrees are designed to be shared is probably helpful. The folks at Lacroix do a similar explanation of the somewhat unconventional pick-any-courses-in-any-order thing, and it helps...

That being said, I didn't get that talk at Striped Bass, and given that the food's not plated for communal sharing, and nothing about the menu is too different than any conventional restaurant, I can't imagine what that "here's how it works" talk could be! (OK, this is a fork, we recommend this for most of your food, soup however...)

I generally just cut them off right as they start into the "have you eaten here before?" and always say yes, even if it's a lie. I just don't want to hear it.

[Kim WB]

That being said, I didn't get that talk at Striped Bass, and given that the food's not plated for  communal sharing, and nothing about the menu is too different than any conventional restaurant, I can't imagine what that "here's how it works" talk could be!  (OK, this is a fork, we recommend this for most of your food, soup however...)

I generally just cut them off right as they start into the "have you eaten here before?" and always say yes, even if it's a lie. I just don't want to hear it.

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Actually, that's not too far off the mark. She said something similiar to " You can look over the wine and dinner menus , and I can get your cocktails for you. Do you prefer sparkling, still or tap waters, becasue I can bring that to you as well"

OH, SO I ORDER THINGS FROM YOU, AND YOU BRING THEM TO ME...WAY COOL...aaaagggghhhh.

And, with all respect to Katie, If the inventory control person comes in on a wednesday morning, and knew there were four bottles of wine abc, and saw that 4 botlles of abc wine were consumed tuesday night, they can do three things: 1. Get his /her hands on wine for service tonite. 2. reprint the wine list to ( sorry, can't imagine the 30 sheets of paper needed to reprint an updated list could break the bank...and if a restaurant doesn't have a decent word processing program to handle the change relatively easily, they should invest in one. )( on that note, you could just put "temp out of stock" next to the wine name, not changing the layout.) or 3. the servers can be notified of the gap in inventory, so that when this wine is ordered, they can immediately inform the customer of its temporary unavailability. What if there are more than two or three out of stock? Then someone is not doing their job. Or, as I suspect, its a wine list designed to get accolades from Wine Spectator or somesuch. It is very frustrating for a diner who highly values wine selection to be told they are out of a wine, and more often than not, the second selection is not available as well. ( In this instance, I am referring to wines on the list over $100)

Edited March 16, 2005 by Kim WB (log)

[CherieV]

That being said, I didn't get that talk at Striped Bass, and given that the food's not plated for  communal sharing, and nothing about the menu is too different than any conventional restaurant, I can't imagine what that "here's how it works" talk could be!  (OK, this is a fork, we recommend this for most of your food, soup however...)

I generally just cut them off right as they start into the "have you eaten here before?" and always say yes, even if it's a lie. I just don't want to hear it.

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Actually, that's not too far off the mark. She said something similiar to " You can look over the wine and dinner menus , and I can get your cocktails for you. Do you prefer sparkling, still or tap waters, becasue I can bring that to you as well"

OH, SO I ORDER THINGS FROM YOU, AND YOU BRING THEM TO ME...WAY COOL...aaaagggghhhh.

And, with all respect to Katie, If the inventory control person comes in on a wednesday morning, and knew there were four bottles of wine abc, and saw that 4 botlles of abc wine were consumed tuesday night, they can do three things: 1. Get his /her hands on wine for service tonite. 2. reprint the wine list to ( sorry, can't imagine the 30 sheets of paper needed to reprint an updated list could break the bank...and if a restaurant doesn't have a decent word processing program to handle the change relatively easily, they should invest in one. )( on that note, you could just put "temp out of stock" next to the wine name, not changing the layout.) or 3. the servers can be notified of the gap in inventory, so that when this wine is ordered, they can immediately inform the customer of its temporary unavailability. What if there are more than two or three out of stock? Then someone is not doing their job. Or, as I suspect, its a wine list designed to get accolades from Wine Spectator or somesuch. It is very frustrating for a diner who highly values wine selection to be told they are out of a wine, and more often than not, the second selection is not available as well. ( In this instance, I am referring to wines on the list over $100)

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If only it were that easy Kim. I was the bev manager at The Fountain Rest and it was nearly impossible to have the extensive wine list we had and everything be in stock with the correct vintage. It is more than just reprinting the list every night. Having the PLCB involved in your program means that there is another tier of people and paperwork waiting to screw something up. I could go on and on. The fact is if you never managed an extensive wine program in Pa you will not be able to understand the challanges it creates. When Katie managed the Bev program at the Bass I was one of her sales rep's. On several instances her order got messed up and I jumped through hoops just to get her something by the weekend. If I couldn't come through she was stuck. The amount of paperwork and rules Pa has in place causes many bev managers to be stuck without product. There just isn't enough time in a day to fix all the errors. You just do your best.

[Kim WB]

  It is more than just reprinting the list every night. 

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I guess what I don't understand is why its not just this? I print out flyers for my business, professioanl quality, with an advanced photo/editing program and a high end color printer. It's a $1500 investment.

I admit I did not think of the limitations that the Penn board forces upon restaurants, and I can certainly see how it would be difficult to function at 100% with these restrictions..but then why not reprint the list, or have servers know what's 86'd?

NOTE to Bunny who works at SB: I will not get into a back and forth via PM...you are welcome to repost your comments to me here ont he thread, and I'll be happy to respond.

[sara]

So the chef was named best rising star by James Beard-- is the place really that good now? I guess I'll have to get over the unwarranted $400 price tag I paid at New Years Eve 2000....

[philadining]

So the chef was named best rising star by James Beard-- is the place really that good now? I guess I'll have to get over the unwarranted $400 price tag I paid at New Years Eve 2000....

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I don't really have anything to add to the posts above, except that I liked it very much back in January, and despite the ownership change, it hasn't gotten any cheaper since 2000! We spent over $300 for two, but almost half of that was (one bottle of) wine. And when I was there, Christopher Lee seemed to be very much in charge. I think Portale still has a presence, but our server implied that it's largely been handed off to Lee.

It's pretty cool that the Beard awards gave Christopher Lee best rising star, and Mark Vetri best chef Mid-Atlantic, but how the hell are we supposed to keep complaining about Philly being overlooked all the time?

[shacke]

bumped for SABG

[Carlson1105]

Dined at Striped Bass Friday night. Outstanding, fabulous, fantastic. Every part of the evening was terrific. Service was great, no speeches, no sneering when we asked for tap water. Enjoyed all 5 items on the tasting menu, especially the Halibut and the Cheeseskate.