venue

[dRock]

Nicely said. Peace and love to all!

[tommy]

A customised tasting menu. Well, is it or isn't it? I go back to my point to Tommy that Chef's motivation to create this "leave it in our hands" tasting menu really isn't anything special..

and i say it *is* something special for the reason i gave above and which i'll repeat below.

you yourself say that you have no idea what the chef's motivation is when sending out courses, so i question why you continue to offer (negative) possibilities/explanations.

in the way of example once again, if the chef thinks that one course follows another perfectly, highlighting the contrast or similarities in taste and texture between those courses, then i'm all for having him send the courses out in a certain order, or even choose certain courses over other. that is what i'm buying into when i let the chef orchestrate my meal. this possibility does not, of course, negate the possibility that the chef is a lazy lout, looking to make it easy on himself, but in my experience it's the former rather than the latter when you have the kitchen decide what/when you're eating.

again, it comes down to having faith in the kitchen. i've let kitchens choose my courses at many restaurants many times, and never expect that i'll be receiving dishes that aren't on the menu, with the notable exception of omakase which, by nature, i think isn't necessarily a menu-driven dining experience to begin with. it's clear that some people have different expectations when deferring control to the kitchen.

my point, of course, is that i have faith in this chef. i just hope he trains those runners a bit better!

Edited November 2, 2005 by tommy (log)

[jasper]

Venue's menu style is the same as March in NYC. The" put yourself in our hands concept was adopted from there. "

By the way March just recieved 1 Micheline Star as well as WD-50.

[camper]

I plan on going to there tonight. What types of wine should I bring? After WTC I'm going to try and keep a level head, however I am quite critical of just about everything. And yes when you think you are in the chef's hands, Tommy, there should be at least one course off the menu that the chef might have ready on a daily basis. I just ate at the Ryland Inn and got two courses compliments that I could find no traces of on the menu.

[tommy]

And yes when you think you are in the chef's hands, Tommy, there should be at least one course off the menu that the chef might have ready on a daily basis.

←

i haven't seen that written. and it hasn't been my experience at March or the French Laundry, for example, or countless other restaurants, and more importantly it wasn't an expectation of mine or my guests, nor was it a requirement. perhaps there was one dish at the French Laundry that didn't appear on any of the night's menus. so yeah, i guess i'm wrong.

bring a white and a red and some bubbles. you can always take home what you don't finish. enjoy your meal. i know i did.

Edited November 8, 2005 by tommy (log)

[camper]

What kind of red and white? Big small acidic buttery? Anyway a chef should be able to create of the cuff, without hesitation. Granted on a busy Saturday night leeway should definitely be given.

[tommy]

What kind of red and white? Big small acidic buttery? Anyway a chef should be able to create of the cuff, without hesitation. Granted on a busy Saturday night leeway should definitely be given.

←

this particular chef has about 20 dishes on his menu for you to choose from. on a first visit i certainly wouldn't be concerned with not being surprised or that the chef didn't go out of his way for you. that's just nonsense. just as i wouldn't pair a buttery white with most dishes.

if you want tips on food/wine pairings, there are lots of discussions out there, including wineloverspage.com, and probably even the wine forum on egullet.

[camper]

Well I just got home from the restaurant and I don't know what to say. The place was absolutely dead. Granted it is a Tuesday night, but 15 covers won't keep the chef in business for very long! My wife and I both had separate 6 courses and all in all pretty good. Im not going to go in a lengthy discussion but after going to Trotters, Per se, Daniel The Ryland, Bouley etc etc the younger generation needs not only to explore new technique but merely how to season their food. Aside from that everything was just fine. I brought a William Seylem Pinot noir, a mulderbosch chard, and a montsant--- across the street from the priorat varietals. Congrats to chef Sarkar and may he do very well.

[jasper]

Well I just got home from the restaurant and I don't know what to say. The place was absolutely dead. Granted it is a Tuesday night, but 15 covers won't keep the chef in business for very long! My wife and I both had separate 6 courses and all in all pretty good. Im not going to go in a lengthy discussion but after going to Trotters, Per se, Daniel The Ryland, Bouley etc   etc  the younger generation needs not only to explore new technique but merely how to season their food. Aside from that everything was just fine. I brought a William Seylem Pinot noir, a mulderbosch chard, and a montsant--- across the street from the priorat varietals. Congrats to chef Sarkar and may he do very well.

←

That is so funny! Camper why dont you tell everyone on this forum that you work for the Ryland Inn and that you were the chef at the Lawrenceville Inn. You think people on this forum are stupid! Dont try making yourself and your employer look good at someone elses expense. That is extremely unprofessional and uncool. If the younger generation of chefs need to learn how to season food, then why are you not at Lawrenceville Inn anymore?

Edited November 9, 2005 by jasper (log)

[jasper]

This guy talks down every place except those that he is affiliated with.

Check out some of his past posts.

Edited November 9, 2005 by jasper (log)

[dRock]

This guy talks down every place except those that he is affiliated with.

Check out some of his past posts.

←

I was just on the Lawrencville Inn forum and I am extremely saddend. Its obvious! I just dont understand why others especially fellow chefs would go out of their way on these forums to make truley great chefs and restaurants look bad. What is their benefit? I am wondering if Scott Anderson was even in for dinner last night? These forums should be an outlet for honest opinions about places not for self promotion or sabotage. I wonder if Criag Shelton is aware of his chefs behavior. Its just down right low!

[camper]

Listen, I didnt want to get into talking about Venue last night because it was late. I thought both the service and the food was very good only a little underseasoned. It was both very inventive and exciting. I've never had or even heard of Salmon cotton candy but it was very good. I am no where near being a chef but most of my friends are and I've already called most of them to try this place.

[xyz123]

←

[dRock]

←

Actually, the five course menu was NOT $55, but $75. per person.

←

[BryanZ]

My family went back to Venue again, for like the second time in the past few weeks. The consensus is that their meat dishes are better than their seafood ones. Also, they're not serving the "air" right now and are doing flavor "injectors" instead. Again, very El Bulli/Alinea.

It's worth noting that members from the same party can order different numbers of courses, making it easier for individuals with different appetites to dine together.

I will be going next week and will post a full report.

[dRock]

My family went back to Venue again, for like the second time in the past few weeks.  The consensus is that their meat dishes are better than their seafood ones.  Also, they're not serving the "air" right now and are doing flavor "injectors" instead.  Again, very El Bulli/Alinea.

It's worth noting that members from the same party can order different numbers of courses, making it easier for individuals with different appetites to dine together.

I will be going next week and will post a full report.

←

What kind of injectors are they doing? Do you mean transfer pipettes? I havent seen these or heard of them being served at Alinea but I know its big at elbulli and cafe atlantico. What were the flavors?

Although the fish dishes are very good, I also am a huge fan of the meat dishes as well.

[BryanZ]

I'm hearing these reports second hand, so I don't know for sure. I wish I could offer more. I promise I'll recount everything when I go.

[jasper]

Are they doing a food network shos on venue in Hoboken, NJ?

You can now view the food network show featuring Venue, WD-50 and Moto by going on to the food networks website. www.foodtv.com

Click on the show "eat this" and view episode 2. This episode features Venue and you can see more of Venues cuisine on the bonus footage section of the episode.

This show will soon also air on TV.

When, I have no idea.

[tommy]

nice job, chef. i'm guessing they spent the better part of a full afternoon at your place?

[jasper]

nice job, chef.  i'm guessing they spent the better part of a full afternoon at your place?

←

They spent about 3 hours filming. The whole food network team was very nice including Dave Leiberman.

[BryanZ]

In light of this fury of publicity, I'll finally be venturing over to Venue this evening. I will post a full report when I get back.

[BryanZ]

Venue is a confounding restaurant. It aims high and often succeeds, but after my meal there I almost feel pity for the place.

Let me clarify. I wasn't blown away but was, instead, pleasantly surprised. Seven of the nineteen "dishes" I tried tonight were "very good," or on a level that I felt was beyond the normal realm of relatively fine dining. If you order intelligently, you can have a top-notch meal. If you happen to try some of Venue's less inspired dishes, it's easy to be unimpressed.

It must also be noted that my party of two made up 50% of Venue's business for the whole evening. Granted, this was a blustery evening the day before Thanksgiving, but with so few covers on any night, Venue simply cannot stay in business.

My dining partner and I discussed more viable locations for Venue but couldn't come up with any. Moving into NYC would put Venue in direct competition with wd-50, a restaurant that is, in my opinion, clearly superior. A move to a more affluent town like Milburn, Short Hills, or Summit might meet with some success, but we both had a hard time believing that residents from these towns would support and patronize such an untraditional restaurant. Such towns support the likes of Scalini Fideli and Serenade, traditional restaurants that are very different than Venue. Moving out into the countryside seems even more likely, as Venue's food does not entertain visions of country hills and farm-raised produce.

So for now, Venue is stuck in Hoboken, a town filled with young professionals who care little for the nuances of a slowly dissolving madras curry cotton candy. Furthermore, for a suburbanite to trek into and park in Hoboken is just as much of a hassle as driving into the city. For a New Yorker, the prospect of catching a cab down to Clinton St. on the lower-east side might seem more appealing than hopping on that dirty PATH train to Hoboken station.

For these reasons, I am ambivalent toward Venue's future. The food, when right, truly redefines New Jersey dining, but the concept seems unlikely, especially given its current location. The service, while competent for the four diners in the restaurant, could easily suffer when faced with a packed house. Servers were friendly and well-meaning but lacked some of the polish and food knowledge of competing restaurants in the city.

In essence, I want Venue to succeed and prosper and encourage a New Jersey avant garde cuisine revolution, but, sadly, this seems unlikely. Perhaps New Jersey isn't ready, perhaps Venue is actually aiming too high, overly differentiating itself from New Jersey's other dining options.

What I sampled from the menu:

-saku yellowfin tuna tartare "picadillo style" with calabaza, cumin and carbonated sherry flavor

-kaboucha squash soup. caramelized granny smith apple, creme fraiche and madras curry cotton candy*

-diver scallops with potato-carrot puree, pumpkin seeds and orange emulsion*

-australian prawns and manilla clams with flavors of paella

-poached black bass. stewed kale, quinoa, and golden beet-galangal broth*

-arctic char with red chard braise, pears, jus, and green tea foam*

-braised grass fed short rib. lotus root chips, pomegranate jus and japanese sweet potato with maple fragrance*

-new zealand lamb shank raviolo. tomato coulis, akudjura, spicy paprika, garlic infused dehydrated yogurt and micro mint

-shelly farms poussin. butter scotch, apple wood smoked bacon, salsify and young carrots

-four star ice cream sundae. white truffle ice cream, dark chocolate ganache, chips, pear fritter, almond praline, wild berry cloud and chocolate whipped cream

- sweet potato pana cotta. oatmeal crisp and cranberry compote

Extra courses/amuses/etc:

-tuna sashimi. caviar. celery soda.

-crispy rock shrimp. sweet and spicy sambal aioli, toasted sesame and frizzled leaves of wasabi root

-honey aspic. crystallized vinegar. nori.

-buddah's hand sorbet. wild sesame seeds. fish flakes.

-foie gras milkshake pipette. pistachios. cranberry.*

-"cracker jack" pipette

-shiso soda*

All in all, I would put Venue among the top restaurants in New Jersey. Although its offerings may not be as quality as Ryland Inn or Restaurant Nicholas, there is a lot to be said for pushing the culinary envelope (something that the former two restaurants may not be doing as much as some might hope).

[dRock]

Brian,

You must work or do PR for WD. Just kidding. But WD also has many misses on their menu. When you are pushing or trying to push the envelope, chefs sometimes lose vision of what a customer expects. To compare either of these places to a ryland inn or daniel type restaurant is unfair because they are on two completely different sides of a spectrum. It is unfortunate that most people lean toward the Ryland inn tradional side. Thats why a place like Venue Can be dead during the week. It also doesnt help that they are in a shit town with all sushi restaurants and crap italian joints. I urge everyone how reads this to go to venue and Wd. Try something new for once in your lives! You just might like it. I give these chefs alot of credit for having some balls and going against the grain. It shows me that to them, it is more about the art of what they do than the money. And to me, that goes along way. I may not be a fan of Wd-50. In fact I think its pretty bad but I have a huge amount of respect for wylie and I wish him and his restaurant the best of luck.

[jasper]

Please guys, lets lose the Venue/WD comparisons. We are two different places with different culinary styles.

[BryanZ]

I felt that the level of creativity was much higher at wd-50. While I do not contend that every dish at wd-50 is a smash success, I think that it challenges the diner more tha Venue does.

Venue seems to present many familiar flavor combinations in a new, retooled, or whimsical way. I thought most of the time this worked very well, but I was simply not as blown away by Venue as I was by wd-50.

With that said, I don't hold Venue's lack of customers against it. Some people might be intimidated in such a situation, but I thought it was almost tragically endearing. I remarked on some of the technical shortcomings simply because I noticed some slight over sights that could have been magnified in a full house. For example, when my dining partner got up to go to the bathroom, her napkin was not folded or replaced. Several items were mispronounced and the servers, as others have noted, did not have a comprehensive understanding of the food. Although wd-50 is more of a "casual" restaurant, the service and overall feel was more serious and cohesive.

And of course, I will be going to Alinea in about a month. If dRock is right, it will blow both Venue and wd-50 out of the water.