Butchery

[Chris Buurman]

Hello> I have been in the culinary business for about 20 years I did take some time off however to persue my passion... that being of course butchery and fish mongering ( about 3 years in a busy toronto market setting).

I learned plenty but never hear much talk of it. I would be glad to help change that and allow the discussion to begin here. So place your topics and I will try top respond. Lets reach out and touch some meat. Well you know what I mean.LOl

[jayt90]

Here is trivial question to start:

I can't find big leg bones for my dog. What happens to them?

[chefreit]

I would love to learn more about primal and internal cuts of beef in general.

Such as grading standards for retail markets, if it is an internal cut where is the grade stamp?

Also online resources would greatly help.

Butchers I speak to have little or no clue when I use NAMP jargon, or ask what grade is the pork? They don't have an answer, am I asking the wrong question?

[aidensnd2]

As far as pork goes I believe that it isn't graded. It's inspected and either passes or doesn't.

[Chris Buurman]

Hello> I have been in the culinary business for about 20 years I did take some time off however to persue my passion... that being of corse butchery and fish mongering ( about 3 years in a busy toronto market setting).

I learned plenty but never hear much talk of it. I would be glad to help change that and allow the discussion to begin here. So place your topics and I will try top respond. Lets reach out and touch some meat. Well you know what I mean.LOl

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If you go to any market type place AKA St. Lawrence market they will have bones in there bone bins it realy depends tho on the type of dog u have as some bones are too hard for them hence there teeth break or the bones splinter and will cause your dog some serios pain as the splinters may have a hard time passing through the digestive system (if you know what I mean).

Try getting them the shank bones they work best.

[Chris Buurman]

I would love to learn more about primal and internal cuts of beef in general.

Such as grading standards for retail markets, if it is an internal cut where is the grade stamp?

Also online resources would greatly help.

Butchers I speak to have little or no clue when I use NAMP jargon, or ask what grade is the pork? They don't have an answer, am I asking the wrong question?

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Well first off where do you buy your meat from?? Market type enviornment, supplier, grocers? The marking on internal cuts varies but will usualy be on the outside of the criovaced bag. Are you talking about tenderloin for example or are you talking about organs and such.

As for the online sources I will try to post some up soon my first day on egullet afterall.

As for the NAMP garble seeing as it is an American standard most Canadian butchers will have no idsea of what you are trying to say... from a restaurant view you never do speak to the buthcher you speak to the sales rep and he just wants to sell you meat!!!!!! Literaly

[Chris Buurman]

As far as pork goes I believe that it isn't graded. It's inspected and either passes or doesn't.

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No thats not true. Pork is graded as for the gradeing system I would have to check in on that. All animals sold for human consumption except of coarse those sold by the second rate non federaly inspected suppiers or those guys who sell out the back of there trucks will be graded.

There are different ghrading systems put in place for different animals.

[Chris Buurman]

Here is trivial question to start:

I can't find big leg bones for my dog.  What happens to them?

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Sorry as to what happens to them. Large suppliers will send them to companies for rendering andfor making stocks/demis/powdered Knorr instant stocks etc.

Also alot of them go into the bone bin and they have them taken to a processing plant and it costs about 3 dollars per pound to do so.

I remember that we didnt have enough romm in the freezer to store all of our bones.

Also some companies buy them and smoke them for your dog as well as for soup bases.

If you ask real nice perhaps your butcher would save you some and also you could make your own dog food from chicken bones and cornmeal etc.

I could put a basic recipe up for you if you would like.... It is far cheaper than buying them and much better for your dog

[chefreit]

As far as pork goes I believe that it isn't graded. It's inspected and either passes or doesn't.

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No thats not true. Pork is graded as for the gradeing system I would have to check in on that. All animals sold for human consumption except of coarse those sold by the second rate non federaly inspected suppiers or those guys who sell out the back of there trucks will be graded.

There are different ghrading systems put in place for different animals.

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If I’m correct it is graded 1-3 by marbling.

[polack]

Talked about this question on a previous thread and never got a good answer. The question is, when it comes to shelf life of meat in the display case, i.e. when it's experation date is up, what do they do with the meat? We talked about how long meat could hold up in the frig. before useing it and feeling safe when you do use it. I never see meat in the local grocer store go on sale because the date is about to expire and I often wondered what they do with it.

Polack

[chefreit]

I would love to learn more about primal and internal cuts of beef in general.

Such as grading standards for retail markets, if it is an internal cut where is the grade stamp?

Also online resources would greatly help.

Butchers I speak to have little or no clue when I use NAMP jargon, or ask what grade is the pork? They don't have an answer, am I asking the wrong question?

←

Well first off where do you buy your meat from?? Market type enviornment, supplier, grocers? The marking on internal cuts varies but will usualy be on the outside of the criovaced bag. Are you talking about tenderloin for example or are you talking about organs and such.

As for the online sources I will try to post some up soon my first day on egullet afterall.

As for the NAMP garble seeing as it is an American standard most Canadian butchers will have no idsea of what you are trying to say... from a restaurant view you never do speak to the buthcher you speak to the sales rep and he just wants to sell you meat!!!!!! Literaly

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I'm talking about grocers. Usually, suppliers are about on the same page, lingo varies a little. In butchers market, or counters situations I get the feeling like they are trying to hide something or out talk me.

Or possibly they are just dancing around the question because I will not like the answer.

[Chris Buurman]

Talked about this question on a previous thread and never got a good answer. The question is, when it comes to shelf life of meat in the display case, i.e. when it's experation date is up, what do they do with the meat? We talked about how long meat could hold up in the frig. before useing it and feeling safe when you do use it. I never see meat in the local grocer store go on sale because the date is about to expire and I often wondered what they do with it.

Polack

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Well a local grocer is usualy owned by a very large company. Now lets take steak, it stays on the shelf for 2 days maybe 3 and then off it comes. goes back to the plant, gets ground, viola!!!! ground meat special in isle 2.

Its all about minimizing your loss.

Having worked in a retail but private butcher store we all had to minimize our losses. So when you trim a hind quarter some goes to ground meat some to stew meat etc. Certain meats like beef are more forgiving where they can have fresh meat added to them to add to the shelf life, others such as pork lamb and chicken would go to everyones favorite grill item the sausage or the burger. These items could then be frozen or sold at discount price (ahh the beauty of filler).

[Chris Buurman]

I would love to learn more about primal and internal cuts of beef in general.

Such as grading standards for retail markets, if it is an internal cut where is the grade stamp?

Also online resources would greatly help.

Butchers I speak to have little or no clue when I use NAMP jargon, or ask what grade is the pork? They don't have an answer, am I asking the wrong question?

←

Well first off where do you buy your meat from?? Market type enviornment, supplier, grocers? The marking on internal cuts varies but will usualy be on the outside of the criovaced bag. Are you talking about tenderloin for example or are you talking about organs and such.

As for the online sources I will try to post some up soon my first day on egullet afterall.

As for the NAMP garble seeing as it is an American standard most Canadian butchers will have no idsea of what you are trying to say... from a restaurant view you never do speak to the buthcher you speak to the sales rep and he just wants to sell you meat!!!!!! Literaly

←

I'm talking about grocers. Usually, suppliers are about on the same page, lingo varies a little. In butchers market, or counters situations I get the feeling like they are trying to hide something or out talk me.

Or possibly they are just dancing around the question because I will not like the answer.

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Well this is sometimes true. For instance..... its saturday and you have 15 employees working. Now most of them are paid around $10hr and they ar5e usualy students or realy old. This is not there chosen profession unfortunately for us. That is the reality. Also some butchers will use a lower grade meat and try to pass it off as a higher grade, most consumers cant tell the difference between a AAA or AA grade of beef.

I would always ask for the head butcher or the owner.

Where do you live and where do you shop.

You can always e-mail bootytron2004@yahoo.com

[jayt90]

Here is trivial question to start:

I can't find big leg bones for my dog.  What happens to them?

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I could put a basic recipe up for you if you would like.... It is far cheaper than buying them and much better for your dog

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Thanks Chris. If you could post this when you have time. It looks like there are a lot of questions already!

[chefzadi]

Hi Chris-

Glad you're here. I've seen several posts with questions regarding butchery. So I'm a bit surprised that there aren't more questions here.

Can you talk about the different types of American chickens. Boiler, fryer, roaster, etc.

Organic, free range, "factory chickens" (well maybe not those). Differences in quality, taste, how are they graded?

[deltadoc]

This isn't quite exactly butchery, but if I don't ask I won't know if you know!

The meat we used to be able to buy in Iowa in the early 1960's was awesome compared to the beef that seems available today.

Do you know how the steers were raised, fed, how old they were when they were butchered, how long were they fed corn, etc. before butchering in the "old" days?

Thanks!

doc

[Aileen]

Talked about this question on a previous thread and never got a good answer. The question is, when it comes to shelf life of meat in the display case, i.e. when it's experation date is up, what do they do with the meat? We talked about how long meat could hold up in the frig. before useing it and feeling safe when you do use it. I never see meat in the local grocer store go on sale because the date is about to expire and I often wondered what they do with it.

Polack

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Well a local grocer is usualy owned by a very large company. Now lets take steak, it stays on the shelf for 2 days maybe 3 and then off it comes. goes back to the plant, gets ground, viola!!!! ground meat special in isle 2.

Its all about minimizing your loss.

Having worked in a retail but private butcher store we all had to minimize our losses. So when you trim a hind quarter some goes to ground meat some to stew meat etc. Certain meats like beef are more forgiving where they can have fresh meat added to them to add to the shelf life, others such as pork lamb and chicken would go to everyones favorite grill item the sausage or the burger. These items could then be frozen or sold at discount price (ahh the beauty of filler).

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I worked as a meat wrapper for a large grocery chain when I was in college, and our process for expired meat was a bit different. Probably because we concentrated on volume of sales over anything else, and probably also because our ground meat came in pre-ground, we just packaged it up. We couldn't hide old meat in the ground version. The cutters would cut the steaks and I would wrap them with a three-day shelf-life. (The scraps would go into packages of stew meat.) When the expiration date came I would remove the package from the case, unwrap it, smell it, and if it smelled ok I would re-wrap with a discount sticker and a one-day shelf-life. (Same with packages of chicken.) If it smelled bad I would toss it in the trash. The smell of the garbage from that job is still with me - nothing worse than rotten meat! (Rotten watermelon, potatoes, and tomatoes come close, though. I also worked produce for a long time.)

[tcavallo]

This isn't quite exactly butchery, but if I don't ask I won't know if you know!

The meat we used to be able to buy in Iowa in the early 1960's was awesome compared to the beef that seems available today.

Do you know how the steers were raised, fed, how old they were when they were butchered, how long were they fed corn, etc. before butchering in the "old" days?

Thanks!

doc

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From what I gather, the problem is the drop in production and rise in price of prime beef. In the sixties, about 6-7% of beef produced was prime, around 70% was choice, and around 15% was select. Today only about 3% is prime, 57% is choice, and a whopping 39% is select. You used to be able to buy prime in a regular grocery store. Now its rarely labeled (usually select) or labeled "choice" as if that were the best grade. Or it may just have some BS "GRADE A+++ BLACK ANGUS SUPER GOOD ALL NATURAL" label.

The beef industry has been raising its cows to be as large as possible, as well, I don't know how this affects beef quality, but judging from the numbers, it can't be good.

I think I may also have read somewhere that over the years the criteria for grading have gone downhill, requiring less marbling to get a higher grade.

What it all boils down to is that they ARE selling lesser quality meat these days, all over the place, and you have to pay out the nose for the good stuff.

Oh, and I just started eating meat recently, so you can take all this with a grain of salt.

[deltadoc]

Thanks!

I've been researching this and the best I've come up with is that in the older days, the following criteria were met:

1. Steer was 3 years old, pasture/grass fed.

2. Bring 'em into the barn for 2-3 months and feed corn/oats/beet pulp to sweeten up the meat and increase marbling before butchering.

3. Hang 'em (dry age) for up to 5 weeks.

Nowadays, the following seem to be more the norm:

1. Steer is 1 1/2 - 2 years old max.

2. Feedlot fed (who knows what that includes, I've heard everything from ground glass to make their intestines bleed thus increasing the protein content, to ground up cardboard, and all types of fillers)

3. Attempts to reduce marbling to satisfy the apparent desire of the buying public to have leaner beef.

4. Cryovac (wet age) them so that they're selling you water weight.

Just what I've been able to find out but haven't had anybody that can confirm.

doc

[DTBarton]

A problem I've had is finding pork with a sufficient fat content. I know that the chops and loins I get today are nothing like what my Mom used to serve us as youths and she cooked them less tenderly than I do. Pork producers have gone whole hog (sorry) with "the other white meat" thing. I have to buy a shoulder or something to get a cut with any fat content, the chops and loins are all kind of dry and tasteless.

My question is, is there any producer you know of that still raises pork the old fashioned way, doesn't put the poor pigs on a treadmill, and purveys juicy succulent chops like I remember?

[emsny]

DTBarton: are you near a farmers' market? There, you may find pork raised the old-fashioned way.

[Chris Buurman]

Yeah there is a supplier out of quebec that suppies fantastick pork. The type of pork is (forgive the spelling) Camarascou. It is fantastic with flavors of corn on the finish. I love it and we use it in our restaurant daily. also it is naturaly raised so you know it died a little more friendly. The supplier we use is La Ferme they have all sorts of lovely meats and game to choose from.

Chris

A problem I've had is finding pork with a sufficient fat content.  I know that the chops and loins I get today are nothing like what my Mom used to serve us as youths and she cooked them less tenderly than I do.  Pork producers have gone whole hog (sorry) with "the other white meat" thing.  I have to buy a shoulder or something to get a cut with any fat content, the chops and loins are all kind of dry and tasteless.

My question is, is there any producer you know of that still raises pork the old fashioned way, doesn't put the poor pigs on a treadmill, and purveys juicy succulent chops like I remember?

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[Chris Buurman]

Well im not too sure about that but I can tell you that the american standardf of beef is 1 grade lower than canadian, as in what they consider to be a+++,a++,a+ etc all they way down to grade E

It depends on where in the world that specific supplier is obtaining its meat. But as for actual numbers I am currently looking into it.

This isn't quite exactly butchery, but if I don't ask I won't know if you know!

The meat we used to be able to buy in Iowa in the early 1960's was awesome compared to the beef that seems available today.

Do you know how the steers were raised, fed, how old they were when they were butchered, how long were they fed corn, etc. before butchering in the "old" days?

Thanks!

doc

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