Bistro du Vent

[Lesley C]

How is it possible that a chef of Laurent Gras' caliber is working at a place like Bistro Du Vent? How galling for him -- especially with somebody else reopening Peacock Alley uptown.

Josh

Hey, at least he's not working as Martha Stewart's personal chef like Pierre Schaedelin.

Robert 40 I see where you're coming from. But Mr. Cutlets has a point. For a three-macaron ex-Ducasse chef to be making bistro food is a step down. Or a step sideways. Or a step in some direction. You can't read about that without thinking "get out of town...Gras at a bistro???"

Still, like rob said, he might be tired, the money might be good, or hey, he might just be into exploring the bistro genre. Maybe he just likes Batali. Who knows.

Edited December 11, 2005 by Lesley C (log)

[Sneakeater]

Having eaten there last night, I think people should be getting a little more excited about this restaurant under Laurent Gras than they're doing.

French bistro food is probably my single favorite type of food. So I was very optimistic when Batali/Bastianich opened a bistro. You'd figure that the team who recreated an earthy, soulful, meat-crazed Roman trattoria in Lupa would be able to come up with some kind of reasonable simulacrum of L'Ami Louis.

But the initial Bistro du Vent was just . . . dull. I kept going back there, thinking that I had to like it more than I did, but I didn't. It's hard to put my finger on what was missing, but it wasn't deeply satisfying like Lupa (or like Balthazaar, or like the old Quatorze). It was (here it comes again) dull. I guess that, despite his many gifts, David Pasternak wasn't put on this earth to cook French bistro.

The new iteration of Bistro du Vent, under Gras, isn't the earthy basic place you'd have initially expected, either. But the food is excellent. Maybe it's not simple and earthy, but it's simple-ish and even earthy-ish. You don't get the feeling the dishes are unnecessarily fancified. Rather, it seems like a very good chef cooking more simply than usual, but nevertheless at a high level for what the food is.

I started with a white bean soup, with garlic, chorizo, and shrimp. If I were making it myself, I'd have put in more garlic -- but then I don't believe in a light hand with garlic. Other than that personal preference, it couldn't be criticized.

The main was the really good part, though. A so-called "T-bone of lamb", crusted with parsley and bacon, over a puree of something-or-other. This dish shows what Gras is up to here. It isn't just a simply prepared hunk of meat (not that there's anything wrong with that). It's subtly tweaked. But it's not unduly complicated -- just improved. Easy to eat and like.

So this is now a totally praiseworthy place. Not one of the best restaurants in New York, but an excellent upper-midlevel choice. With a menu (and, of course, a wine list) well worth exploring. (If memory serves, the excellent cocktail menu is new.) You might argue that Gras is meant for better things, and ultimately I'm sure he'll return to them. But there's a lot to be said for making this kind of restaurant this good.

Rich will want to know that they were playing the Rolling Stones and James Brown in the background.

Edited December 11, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

(OK OK I know L'Ami Louis and Balthazaar are brasseries . . . .)

[Bux]

Missing from this discussion seems to be what I thought was common knowledge--that M. Gras is in search of a place to open his own upscale restaurant. Rumors abound that he's found the spot, but as I don't know where that is or if in fact that's at all true, all I can do is point you to Mme. Gras' web site, okay, maybe that's Mrs. Gras, at SNACK. Specifically, that's a link to hotsnack of September 21, 2005. Laurent's Bistro du Vent menu is here.

Laurent is a managing partner at Bistro du Vent and I'm going to suspect much of his time, energy and interest is being devoted to his own future restaurant. As of September 21, "The high-flying haute cuisine will come later at his next restaurant. The quest continues..."

Bistro du Vent is hardly where Laurent Gras has ended up in NY. It's just a place he's he's helping find a way, while he has the time. It's hardly unusual for a talented chef to have his fingers in many pots, or to have his pots in several kitchens these days. Although it's reputed to have had a minor face lift since I've been there, don't go expecting a destination restaurant and certainly don't go expecting what he served up at Peacock Alley. At the time, the decor was effectively reminiscent of a local bistro in Paris, but not of a charming one. Service didn't particularly transport me to Paris.

The food is the thing of course and I had mixed feelings. With the Batali/Bastianich connection in mind, I had spaghetti and clams for a first course and it was an unexpected disaster. Even had I not just returned from two weeks in Italy, I would have found my pasta done well beyond any point resembling al dente. Although the waitress asked if everything was okay when she put the plates on the table, no one asked if I enjoyed my dish after I left most of the pasta on the plate. My sweetbreads, on the other hand, were exemplary and I wouldn't have expected them to have been better prepared in good Parisian bistro. They were accompanied by a salad of mache and thinly sliced pears. If memory serves, the pears were either pickled or lightly cooked. There was no real flash of creative genius, just what you might expect if a haute cuisine chef were to design a menu attempting to capture the simplicity of bistro cooking in a modern style and create a good neighborhood restaurant. Although I did make a special trip to see what Laurent Gras might be up to, I'd not be inclined to make a special trip next time, but if I had reason to be in the neighborhood, it's not out of the question that I'd be back hoping the pasta was a rare occurance and that the sweetbreads represented the level of cooking that will prevail.

[Sneakeater]

There was no real flash of creative genius, just what you might expect if a haute cuisine chef were to design a menu attempting to capture the simplicity of bistro cooking in a modern style and create a good neighborhood restaurant.

Actually, that encapsulates what I think of this restaurant right now better than I was able to say it.

The only apparent difference between you and me is that, to me, that's a REALLY exciting prospect, which I am very glad to have access to. (Especially since it's in a neighborhood in which I frequently find myself.)

Edited December 12, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

To enlarge just a bit, I can't speak for others here, but I eat at places like Bistro du Vent a lot more than I eat at places like Gras's Peacock Alley. To me, how much more exciting is the prospect of someone like Gras improving a place like Bistro du Vent than someone opening another super-high-end place that I'll eat in maybe twice a year.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Bux]

There was no real flash of creative genius, just what you might expect if a haute cuisine chef were to design a menu attempting to capture the simplicity of bistro cooking in a modern style and create a good neighborhood restaurant.

Actually, that encapsulates what I think of this restaurant right now better than I was able to say it.

That's very flattering. Thanks.

The only apparent difference between you and me is that, to me, that's a REALLY exciting prospect, which I am very glad to have access to.  (Especially since it's in a neighborhood in which I frequently find myself.)

←

Excitement comes in all forms. NY is a pretty good restaurant town and there's really no great shortage of good, very good and excellent restaurants, but it's still very exciting when a good one opens in any neighborhood. It's even more exciting when a good restaurant opens to fill a void in a certain price range. It's less exciting when such a restaurant opens in someone else's neighborhood, but NY can always use another good restaurant. Clearly we don't have enough. I'm always amazed at how long in advance I have to book at many restaurants that are no better than good.

Michelin stars are relative to how far out of one's way one should go to dine at a restaurant. Two stars merits a detour and three are worth a special trip. In a city as densely populated as NY, and particularly in Manhattan, everyone should have a choice of good restaurants within walking distance. I'd suggest another way one might rate restaurants is how far in advance one should have to make reservations. Ideally, one should be able to choose a place on a couple of day's notice.

Laurent Gras is a destination chef. This however is not his destination restaurant and because people have reason to expect a meal resembling what he offered at Peacock Alley, I think it's important for prospective diners to understand not to expect it here. A diner arriving with memories of Peacock Alley dancing in his head is likely to disappointed. A dinner arriving with no advance knowledge of who's in the kitchen, is far more likely to be pleased. My fear is that Gras is not in the kitchen full time and my pasta leads me to worry about quality control and consistency. My sweetbreads however, bode well for successful dining.

[Bux]

To enlarge just a bit, I can't speak for others here, but I eat at places like Bistro du Vent a lot more than I eat at places like Gras's Peacock Alley.  To me, how much more exciting is the prospect of someone like Gras improving a place like Bistro du Vent than someone opening another super-high-end place that I'll eat in maybe twice a year.

←

Because our life style is changing, we're busy and have less time and energy to entertain, we are eating out more often. As a result, we find ourselves in need of more affordable places. I might seriously suggest we might appreciate one great meal far more than three medicore ones, the need, or at least desire, to meet several friends for dinner in one week makes it sometime more important to find good food at reasonable prices, than to find that one great meal.

[rich]

To enlarge just a bit, I can't speak for others here, but I eat at places like Bistro du Vent a lot more than I eat at places like Gras's Peacock Alley.  To me, how much more exciting is the prospect of someone like Gras improving a place like Bistro du Vent than someone opening another super-high-end place that I'll eat in maybe twice a year.

←

Because our life style is changing, we're busy and have less time and energy to entertain, we are eating out more often. As a result, we find ourselves in need of more affordable places. I might seriously suggest we might appreciate one great meal far more than three medicore ones, the need, or at least desire, to meet several friends for dinner in one week makes it sometime more important to find good food at reasonable prices, than to find that one great meal.

←

This an an excellent point. I also think it's the reason why people have decided to "cook" with the spare time they have. I entertain on an average of once a week. It's my relaxation.

For example, yesterday I did a brunch for 10 from 11:00 a.m. - 2:00 p.m. and then a "tasting/grazing menu" for seven from 4:00 p.m. -10:00 p.m. Yes, it was work, but I totally enjoyed every minute.

Most of my friends could have afforded the couple of hundred dollars a couple this would have cost, but it was a welcome change and allowed then to spend their money on other holiday dinners/gatherings they would for sure be attending during the next few weeks.

[Sneakeater]

If this is considered getting off-topic, I apologize to the moderator.

You frequently see people saying that they eat in the bottom end and the top end, but avoid the middle, because value is lacking in that segment. I used to say it a lot myself.

But I think now that the real truth isn't that value is lacking in the mid-range as a rule, but rather that you have to be especially careful there.

Let's do a Frank Bruni-style comparison of two restaurants that are next door to each other. Bistro du Vent and the place next door to it (I think it's called the West Side Cafe). I've actually eaten in the West Side Cafe (if that's what it's called) several times. Solely for reasons of locational convenience. It's a prototypical restaurant that I don't think it's worth it to pay to eat in. The food isn't bad. It isn't even close to bad. But it's so ordinary that there's no way that it's worth paying for (except for the fact that someone other than you cooks it and then cleans the dishes). You do just as well at home.

Bistro du Vent is obviously much better than that. It's also more expensive -- but by New York standards not so much so. I think that it's actively exciting to have a mid-range restaurant of that quality in some neighborhood.

If you think that West Side Cafe (if that's what it's called) is too easy a target, let's compare Bistro du Vent to some other mid-range restaurants in that area. To name two that I actually like very much, Chimmichurri Grill and Chez Josephine. As much as I like those two places, there's no question at least in my mind that the current Bistro du Vent is significantly better than either of them.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that it isn't so easy to find very good mid-range restaurants. So if you find one, it's almost more exciting, in a way (at least to me), than finding a great top-level blow-out place. (I sort of feel the same way about wine. I wouldn't say I enjoy good mid-level bottles better than indisputably great wines. But I certainly am more excited about finding them. Finding a great "grande cru" bottle is easy. Finding an excellent mid-level bottle is hard.)

Edited December 13, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

On a self-indulgent personal note, of course Bux's point about the impact of lifestyles is correct. On an individual level, as a recently widowed middle-aged male without children, I must be the biggest godsend there is for the New York restaurant industry. Maybe my disinclination to eat alone in my apartment (and to cook for myself) has given me a new appreciation for very-good-but-not-great mid-level places. Bux's point that people might do better to concentrate on a few great meals out rather than a lot of so-called mediocre ones isn't really to the point in cases like mine (which I don't think are that unusual in a city like this).

Edited December 13, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

One other point this discussion brings up is a problem I've always had with the Times's "$25 and Under" column, which I now see I'm subject to as well.

It's very hard to moderate praise. When I talk about liking the food at a place like Bistro du Vent, I'm not saying I like it in the same way as I like the food at, say, Le Bernadin -- or even, say, Oceana. Yet, it's hard to come up with a different vocabulary for discussing a place like Bistro du Vent.

The result is that when you read favorable "$25 and Under" columns -- or, I suppose, my Bistro du Vent review -- it sort of sounds like the reviewer is saying the food is as good as at a really top place. When what he's really trying to say is that it's very good for what it is. This is problematical, as the descriptions as understood by the reader raise expectations that the food can't meet. But I think the most obvious alternative -- which is being sort of dismissive of the good-but-not-great places the way Bux pretty much was of Bistro du Vent -- ends up undervaluing the lesser places (or at least making them seem much less attractive than they are).

I wish there were a way to praise places that are at less than the highest level of excellence that makes all this clear.

Edited December 12, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

Finally, let's compare the reception afforded Bistro du Vent to the reception afforded Ici.

What people usually say about Ici is, "How nice for that neighborhood to have someplace so good. And I can eat there when I go to BAM."

Why is it so different for Bistro du Vent (a clearly superior restaurant, IMO)? One reason, I think, is that people still tend to be patronizing toward places in Brooklyn (as opposed to West Midtown).

But probably the main reason is one that Bux adverted to: people seeing Laurent Gras's name might expect a "destination" restaurant, and then downgrade Bistro du Vent when it turns out to be a very good neighborhood place. I think my response to that is, are such expectations really justified? The responses here to Gras's affiliation with this restaurant seemed to be more like, "Why is Laurent Gras wasting his time on a bistro?" Over the past several years, all those nouvelle bistros (or whatever they're called) opened in Paris, run as side-lines by famous chefs. Does anyone expect them to feature anything approaching haute cuisine? Or do they expect (and get) exactly what Bux described the food at Bistro du Vent as being: "what you might expect if a haute cuisine chef were to design a menu attempting to capture the simplicity of bistro cooking in a modern style"?

Edited December 12, 2005 by Sneakeater (log)

[Sneakeater]

BACK TO TOPIC!

But of course, the real difference between Bux and me with respect to this restaurant is probably that I was lucky enough to select an appetizer that turned out to be good, whereas he had that terrible pasta.

[Sneakeater]

I'd suggest another way one might rate restaurants is how far in advance one should have to make reservations. Ideally, one should be able to choose a place on a couple of day's notice.

Sorry, I missed this. This is a great point, and you're absolutely right. I had my meal at Bistro du Vent as a walk-in. I would not think it worth having to reserve far in advance. I never thought to mention it, but my high opinion of my meal took in account the ease of securing it.

[raji]

I was cycling by this corner and noticed signs up about pending liquor license review for "Ollie's" (I'm assuming the Chinese food of the same name is opening up there). Inside, stairs were stacked up, looks like they closed up shop there. That corner is cursed I think...

[Daniel]

That's wild if its really going to be an Ollie's.. I went in the opening weeks and was happy.. I wonder if it was closed to focus on other ventures, or what? The new Ollie's, will sadly be a goldmine for sure

Edited June 22, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[Sneakeater]

It closed because it never took off. I was there fairly frequently, and it was always pretty empty. Amazing for that neighborhood, where mediocre restaurants are usually packed. I never got it. Even low-level Laurent Gras food is much better than what you expect in the Theater District. And it wasn't expensive or anything.

This is really Batali/Bastianich's first failure.

On a side-note, without being aware of it in advance, I happened to wander in there for a late supper on what I soon learned, to my surprise, was closing night. It was the strangest atmosphere I have ever experienced in a restaurant. There was this sort of crazed, what-the-hell, anything-goes atmosphere among the staff (which seemed to consist of two people). (To show you how wild things got, they even let me order a family-style for-the-table tasing menu when I was the only person at my table. The waiter was astonished.) The food was still delicious, though.

Edited June 22, 2006 by Sneakeater (log)

[Eatmywords]

Was it all down-hill after the caught-on-tape-orgy?

And is it true? -Another Ollie's? Like we don't have enough Americanized Chinese food.

C'est la vie mes amies

[Sneakeater]

Was it all down-hill after the caught-on-tape-orgy? 

←

Nah, it was empty before that.

[cakewalk]

I was cycling by this corner and noticed signs up about pending liquor license review for "Ollie's" (I'm assuming the Chinese food of the same name is opening up there). Inside, stairs were stacked up, looks like they closed up shop there. That corner is cursed I think...

←

I noticed this as well, and was surprised (and not a little dismayed) since there's another Ollie's so close by (44th and B'way. And I still like their vegetable dumplings and their scallion pancakes.) But there are so many tourists in the area now, and I don't see that letting up any time soon. I never ate at Bistro du Vent, but I always thought the corner of 42nd and Ninth was a strange choice for the place. It's too much of a hub where everything seems to happen quickly, including the eating. (Especially eating: Dunkin' Donuts, pizza places, sandwich places, etc.) Exhaust fumes from buses, cars, trucks, go all over the people who eat at Bistro's outside seating. I think they might have done better if they were a block or two off 42nd. (But what do I know?)

[Nathan]

they should have played up the orgy thing...might have attracted customers...whatever they were doing wasn't working...

[dan.]

Well the room was sort of a strange split-level awkward dining space with the bar off in no man's land. The coat check looked as though it would tumble over any second. The entrance way was undistinguished and it was on 42nd street. Watching bags of parsnips being emptied from a pickup on that corner was always bizarre. Despite all of those obstacles, only having eaten there during the Gras tenure, the food was never short of great and was always the neighborhood restaurant of choice when out-of-towners were visiting. It’s a bit of a shame from the neighborhood standpoint.

[raji]

Orgy?? Caught on tape?

It would be nice to have a good, dependable restaurant there...

[murkcury]

It is a shame that things didn't work out better because the quality of food was above and beyond anything else available in the neighborhood. Not everyone can walk in off the street without a reservation and enjoy the cooking of such a supremely talented chef. Even as a former employee it's hard for me to diagnose why Bistro never made it. In the long run I think it was a combination of elements. Location. Sure there are lots of people, but the majority don't appreciate great food and the neighborhood doesn't draw NY'ers as a dining destination. The obvious counterpoint, however, is Esca which is perpetually packed and only one block away. Space. The space, no matter how you approach it, was awkward (from both the standpoint of the kitchen and the bar/dining room). It simply wasn't well designed. The decor was also lacking. PR/Marketing. Funny that everyone knows BDV for the alleged orgy (sorry folks, it never happened) but almost no one knew that, at least for the last six or seven months, Laurent Gras was behind the stoves. Um, Laurent Gras in a Times Sq. bistrot? People should have been lining up out the door for that opportunity. Why didn't more people know about that?

All in all I just think it was an ill-conceived venture which is what sets it apart from the rest of the Batali/Bastianich restaurants. Every other restaurant they operate seems to be well planned, well designed, well funded and well promoted (certain issues regarding Del Posto not withstanding). This was just the black sheep. Or, maybe what they say about cursed restaurant locations is true.