Balthazar et Pastis

[jgould]

i find it amazing, but when i go to either Balthazar or Pastis anytime after 6pm, they are basically crowded. as 8pm approaches, there are jammed. are these the only 2 brasseries in manhattan that experience this? many other bistro/brasseries do not approach this level of success. even with the growth in the meatpacking district, it has only added to Pastis's business, instead of bastardizing - now they take reservations in the bar area!! not even sure Balthazar still has their "secret" reservation number anymore, it doesn't really help. everyone waits, except, of course, p. diddy anyone else care to comment?

Edited November 10, 2004 by jgould (log)

[Bux]

It's been my understanding that the "secret" number will get you a reservation closer to the time you call than you can get by calling the regular line, but the likelihood that you will have to wait for your table doesn't seem to change. How many days in advance can one call and get a reservation each way?

[Joanne212]

I long ago gave up reservations at either, since it seems you always have to wait anyway. I find I have decent luck as a walk-in; usually no longer a wait than 20-25 minutes.

[Nathan]

the unlisted reservation number still works (at least as of a couple months ago)....you will get in closer to the day...i.e. a couple days before as opposed to a week.

[jgould]

thanks to all. re: the other part of my topic: what makes these 2 places incredibly HOT long after each has opened. everyone i speak to has a gripe, too loud, too many tourists, somewhat overpriced, service mixed; BUT there are still crowded.

i, for one, when i can take the crowd, love going. each is probably as close as one can get to a parisian brasserie without the air fare.

do they have any competition? i can only assume keith is a genius.

[TrishCT]

I can't speak about Pastis, but I would never have ventured into Balthazar unless the food kicked butt...and it really does. Not too many places I take my fussy family to where we all really LOVE our entire meal and dining experience.... The place is just...fun.

[Bux]

I don't know about the food kicking butt and I don't know about it being over priced. Most of what I've had there has pleased me at a rate that's far above average for New York and I've often walked out of other restaurants saying I couldn't have eaten better at Balthazar for less money. The sevice isn't necessarily perfect, but in its way, it can be impressive.

I enjoy eating there and Trish is right when she says it's fun. When it first opened, I was offended that if brought yet more tourists to my neighborhood. Maybe I've just capitulated, or maybe I've been won over, but sometimes I'm there, convinced that everyone in the room is a tourist, or at least from the suburbs, and I'm not only happy to be there, but glad they have a place we enjoy.

The only thing I've started to regret is that they seem to be attracting diners who just don't have a clue about eating in a restaurant or feel they're not in a restaurant. Not long ago we sat next to a table of two women of an uncertain age. They were discussing their work or their careers or something and one of them felt the need to slam her palms on the table every time she needed to make a point, which was increasingly more frequent as the evening and drinks wore on. As she was sitting right next to me, she was outside the range of my peripheral vision and the noise was so great and unexpected that the first time she did this, I almost jumped out of my seat. After the third or fourth time, I learned to watch her out of the corner of my eye so just as not to be surprised by the thud. It's loud in there. I can barely hear my wife across the table (although to be fair, she says I never listen) yet the adjacent noise was loud and clear.

More recently, we sat next to a mixed table of a half dozen or so early twenty-somethings. Next to me was a young woman who addded a resounding clap to every point she made. As she drank her wine, the claps became more frequent. I don't know that the claps became any louder, but the abandonment with which she spread her wings invaded my physical space as well. There's really not much point in shooting an annoyed glance at anyone so self absorbed, but my patience with people like that is wearing thin.

Don't get me wrong. I still like the place.

I long ago gave up reservations at either, since it seems you always have to wait anyway. I find I have decent luck as a walk-in; usually no longer a wait than 20-25 minutes.

At what time. At peak time I've seen a wait over 45 minutes. On the other hand, on an off night or non-peak time, if you're willing to take a table in the bar area, you might be seated in five or ten minutes. Most of those tables are fine. There are a couple of tiny round ones in odd spots that are less enjoyable, but if all I'm in the mood for is a burger, even those can be acceptable.

[Busboy]

I don't live in New York but have been to both and, while I was disappointed in Balthazaar as a "destination" place, I assume that if I was living in Manhattan there would be many a night where I'd head over to one or the other for steak frites or oysters on the half shell. Well-decorated, lively, good -- if not excellent -- food, and prices that seemed modest by New York standards, and late hours. What more could you ask?

[Bux]

I don't live in New York but have been to both and, while I was disappointed in Balthazaar as a "destination" place, I assume that if I was living in Manhattan there would be many a night where I'd head over to one or the other for steak frites or oysters on the half shell.

You're right. In spite of the fact that I know the chefs, more and more, we tend to go there for the banal end of the menu-- hamburgers, bar steaks, mussels (anything with fries) and oysters--not that the more sophisticated preperations are lacking. Actually, I had a grilled vegetable plate at lunch one day that was severely under inspired.

  Well-decorated, lively, good -- if not excellent -- food, and prices that seemed modest by New York standards, and late hours.  What more could you ask?

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Naked ladies and dancing girls? Actually there is some such place in NY and Jeffry Steingarten gave its steaks a good review in Vogue as I recall about a year ago.

[R Washburn]

Naked ladies and dancing girls? Actually there is some such place in NY and Jeffry Steingarten gave its steaks a good review in Vogue as I recall about a year ago. 

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"Robert's Steakhouse" in the penthouse executive club? Judging from the quality of food served by there take-out operation (Daisy May's BBQ) I would guess that it is probably a pretty good steakhouse.

Edited November 11, 2004 by R Washburn (log)

[Orik]

with success came some questionable practices, at least at Pastis. On our last (ever) visit there, with an out of town guest lured by scenes from Sex & The CT, brunch order, including a medium rare steak frites, was filled in 3 minutes sharp. Of course, poached eggs, fries, steak, pancakes, are not foods that benefit from extended waits under a heating lamp, but we weren't going to ruin the realization of her fantasy.

[Bux]

Is it the unseen and assumed practice, or the quality of the food that's at issue?

[jgould]

Is it the unseen and assumed practice, or the quality of the food that's at issue?

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i'm not sure i follow?? meaning the food is pre-prepared??

as per my comments & observations above, i assume that if balthazar, or maybe pastis, were closer, i would go often, but to travel from uptown, diagonally across manhattan, for a 45 min wait, then to have to go all the way back, is somewhat exhausting. seems like its becoming a "neighborhood" place due to proximity, & a tourist "destination", & a stopping off for those that either work in the area or wall streeters making the short hop.

[ned]

So I'll repeat the chorus and say that Balthazar is full of people studying maps, young women waving skinny arms in the air and giggling at men who need a wash and a shave and the limos outside etc etc.

But once that's all done, I want to start thinking about Balthazar as a restaurant that cooks food and serves it. Like a normal restaurant. Only I don't think Balthazar is so normal. They don't have ideas. The menu doesn't have a single original item. I like that. They follow the seasons. They execute consistently and at a high level. They serve pate, liver and sweetbreads. Sometimes whole rabbit. I've probably been to Balthazaar ten times and can't think of when I've had a bad experience. Perhaps that's because I was looking at the girls with skinny arms and not paying attention to my food. . .

I can say that today while I was eating the best piece of skate I've ever had and nigh onto one of the best pieces of fish I've ever had and my lovely wife sat across from me silently inhaling a duck shephard's pie, there were many pairs of skinny arms and I managed to bring an adequate amount of attention to bear on all three. The beautifully browned skate wing was vigorously seasoned, which I like, and topped with a piquant sauce rich with toasted hazelnuts and sliced shallot. It was sitting on a pile of haricot verts that could have been cooked a touch more carefully but between the caramelly biceps over at the bar and the roasty hazelnut and browned butter orbiting my mouth, who was I to complain?

I left Balthazaar not so many dollars lighter and certain that I must visit far more often.

[jgould]

also recently re-visited balthazar after a long absence, not from any negative other than the trip, from the UWS - to - the eastern edge of SoHo! still fun, still good, still somewhat touristy, but now a little more new yorkish than parisian.

as for pastis - with all the openings, & with all the existing restaurants in the meat mkt area, pastis seems to remain the champ. it is always mobbed to the point it no longer can be a place one just drops by. young loud crowd, wall street meets euro, the artistic to the recognizable; still there, still preening. in a way, its too bad (for me), not keith mcnalley's bank account.

[jgould]

also recently re-visited balthazar after a long absence, not from any negative other than the trip, from the UWS - to - the eastern edge of SoHo! still fun, still good, still somewhat touristy, but now a little more new yorkish than parisian.

as for pastis - with all the openings, & with all the existing restaurants in the meat mkt area, pastis seems to remain the champ. it is always mobbed to the point it no longer can be a place one just drops by. young loud crowd, wall street meets euro, the artistic to the recognizable; still there, still preening. in a way, its too bad (for me), not keith mcnalley's bank account.

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no other thoughts re: balthazar ou pastis????? pro or con

[juuceman]

no other thoughts re: balthazar ou pastis????? pro or con

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I'm a big fan of Balthazar, not so much of Pastis.. i like the crowd and atmosphere more at Balthazar, however, do enjoy the outside seating at Pastis..

raw bar excels at Balth, as do most of their fish dishes.. late night, it's one of our standard go-to joints after shows, concerts, etc.. well worth the cab ride from wherever we happen to be..

that said, i don't go during prime time.. coffee early mornings at the bar, raw bar and asparagus late night.. for brunch we'd rather hit Le Gamin, or a couple of small hole in the wall cafe's over either of these two.. it can be a nice place for dinner during the week though- usually able to snag a last minute reservation for Bathazar for a group of 6 or so..

[jgould]

no other thoughts re: balthazar ou pastis????? pro or con

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I'm a big fan of Balthazar, not so much of Pastis.. i like the crowd and atmosphere more at Balthazar, however, do enjoy the outside seating at Pastis..

raw bar excels at Balth, as do most of their fish dishes.. late night, it's one of our standard go-to joints after shows, concerts, etc.. well worth the cab ride from wherever we happen to be..

that said, i don't go during prime time.. coffee early mornings at the bar, raw bar and asparagus late night.. for brunch we'd rather hit Le Gamin, or a couple of small hole in the wall cafe's over either of these two.. it can be a nice place for dinner during the week though- usually able to snag a last minute reservation for Bathazar for a group of 6 or so..

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thx, great attitude re: "well worth the cab ride from wherever we happen to be.. " i have been of the mindset if too far, must be an easier place to go; however, you're absolutely correct, its ONLY a cab ride away for a place that provides everything one is looking for in a brasserie/bistro/bistrot

Edited October 4, 2005 by jgould (log)

[jgould]

no other thoughts re: balthazar ou pastis????? pro or con

←

I'm a big fan of Balthazar, not so much of Pastis.. i like the crowd and atmosphere more at Balthazar, however, do enjoy the outside seating at Pastis..

raw bar excels at Balth, as do most of their fish dishes.. late night, it's one of our standard go-to joints after shows, concerts, etc.. well worth the cab ride from wherever we happen to be..

that said, i don't go during prime time.. coffee early mornings at the bar, raw bar and asparagus late night.. for brunch we'd rather hit Le Gamin, or a couple of small hole in the wall cafe's over either of these two.. it can be a nice place for dinner during the week though- usually able to snag a last minute reservation for Bathazar for a group of 6 or so..

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thx, great attitude re: "well worth the cab ride from wherever we happen to be.. " i have been of the mindset if too far, must be an easier place to go; however, you're absolutely correct, its ONLY a cab ride away for a place that provides everything one is looking for in a brasserie/bistro/bistrot

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stopped by both balthazar & pastis last evening, both crowded, as usual, with pastis actually a little more, also, as usual!! this on a quiet tues, 1st nite of rosh hashanah, & the YANKEES game. interestingly & oddly, most other restaurants i passed were only 1/2 filled, at best - go figure???

[jgould]

hopefully, not undermining my thoughts on pastis & balthazar, BUT:

passed balthazar, & the prices "SEEM" higher than i remember??? in spite of its authenticity, being fun, enjoying the food, it does appear to now be OVER-priced; "say it ain't so"?

[juuceman]

hopefully, not undermining my thoughts on pastis & balthazar, BUT:

passed balthazar, & the prices "SEEM" higher than i remember??? in spite of its authenticity, being fun, enjoying the food, it does appear to now be OVER-priced; "say it ain't so"? 

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chalk it up to the weakened dollar versus the euro..

[jgould]

hopefully, not undermining my thoughts on pastis & balthazar, BUT:

passed balthazar, & the prices "SEEM" higher than i remember??? in spite of its authenticity, being fun, enjoying the food, it does appear to now be OVER-priced; "say it ain't so"? 

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chalk it up to the weakened dollar versus the euro..

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i understand what a weaker $ means, but how does that affect the price of beans @ balthazar? an american $-based brasserie with few imported ingredients, except their admirable all-french wine list, which is not only fairly unique to find, but also another reason why i love the place, & in this "ONE & ONLY" instance, ignore the prices .

"if 1 deals in the native currency within that country, regardless of movement in a foreign currency, "generally" has -0- effect relating to costs of doing business" econ 101

Edited October 7, 2005 by jgould (log)

[weinoo]

I still like Balthazaar, more than Pastis, but I do find myself at Schiller's much more frequently - I guess I enjoy padding Keith's bank account.

As far as prices go, i detect higher prices (10 - 20%) practically all over the city, and with the cost of fuel, insurance, etc. rising so dramatically, it does not surprise me one bit.