Weekend in Saratoga

[Mulcahy]

I live in NYC and was actually taken aback by the prices at Springwater.

How so? Entrees are priced from $18 to $25 and typically include a vegetable and starch.

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Probably because I had been "living" in Saratoga for two weeks at the time, and it is much more expensive then other restaurants in Saratoga. Also, it should be noted that I was there in August when some restaurants in Saratoga raise their prices by $1-2 an entree. I don't know if this is the case with Springwater (and wouldn't mind if it was).

$18-25 is expensive, even by NYC standards (at least by mine).

[docsconz]

$18-25 is expensive, even by NYC standards (at least by mine).

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For similar quality and prepration? One can certainly eat well for less than that in NYC, but in my experience not with the same level of ingredients and technique as with Springwater.

I have to admit that Springwater can be uneven, but when it is on it is really on. Even when it is not at its best, though I still find it to be a good value.

[Mulcahy]

$18-25 is expensive, even by NYC standards (at least by mine).

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For similar quality and prepration? One can certainly eat well for less than that in NYC, but in my experience not with the same level of ingredients and technique as with Springwater.

I have to admit that Springwater can be uneven, but when it is on it is really on. Even when it is not at its best, though I still find it to be a good value.

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I will make a concerted effort to go back. Perhaps on the night I was there the restaurant was suffering from August-itis (although the service was very good). Hubby and I were both really liked our apps and were lukewarm about our entrees. I thought the ingredients were of excellent quality, but I didn't think the quality of the ingredients improved the quality of the entrees. I'm not saying I had a bad meal there, I didn't. I just wasn't wowed, and I thought it was expensive for not being wowed (and I wasn't expecting Per Se wow, I was expecting middle of the road wow.)

[emilymarie]

I will be seeing a show at Caffe Lena on November 21. Is Chez Sophie, which based on many good reviews here I would love to try, within driving distance of Caffe Lena (under 20 minutes)? And is www.chezsophie.com their website? It's in Malta, which I'm pretty sure is the place you're all speaking of (I'm unfamiliar with that part of NY, I apologize). thanks.

[docsconz]

I will be seeing a show at Caffe Lena on November 21. Is Chez Sophie, which based on many good reviews here I would love to try, within driving distance of Caffe Lena (under 20 minutes)? And is www.chezsophie.com their website? It's in Malta, which I'm pretty sure is the place you're all speaking of (I'm unfamiliar with that part of NY, I apologize). thanks. 

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Chez Sophie is no more than ten minutes from Caffe Lena. It is on Rte 9 just south of exit 13 of the Northway while Caffe Lena is in Saratoga proper between exits 14 and 15. You have the correct website and place. Enjoy and tell them you found them on eGullet! They are familiar with the site.

[syzygy8]

With all due respect to avoid hijacking this great Saratoga Eateries thread, I've heard about the "Bears" restaurant in that general vicinity, maybe Galoway/Schenectady County area.

A beef house situated in converted home, maybe.

Any takers or help?

woodburner

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I had the distinct pleasure of living about a mile up the road from The Bears before moving to DC. That was almost five years ago, so some things may have changed, but here's how it was January 1, 2000.

It's right on Route 7 just a bit west of the crossroads in Duanesburg in a white house on the right side. There's a sign for The Bears Steakhouse. There are two seatings each evening, although I don't recall what time each one is. Make reservations WELL in advance. It's not in the phone book...but you can use the white pages by looking up the number for the Paine family in Duanesburg. (or it could be Payne. I don't recall.). I believe they answer the phone "Bears."

The chateaubriand and prime rib are the two specialties. Both are served family style and must be ordered in advance. Simple side dishes are also family style, such as baked potatoes and steamed broccoli. The key here is the meat. I wish I could recall the wine list...but I can't. I also recall there were some tasty appetizers. Salads weren't much to speak of.

Let me know what you think of it if you go. I wouldn't mind an update on how/what they're doing these days.

[phaelon56]

I'm very curious about the specific property where the Bears is located - by any chance does it appear to be in this house, which was once known as the Colonel North house?

[syzygy8]

I'm very curious about the specific property where the Bears is located - by any chance does it appear to be in this house, which was once known as the Colonel North house?

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No that's not it. The Bears is set back from the road by about 50 yards or so. I don't know enough about architectural styles to say that it's not a Federal but more of a whathaveyou. Looks like a typical white farmhouse, I guess.

Interesting photo though. I swear I probably saw that place, and several more like it, in my time living in Duanesburg/Delanson. Any idea what street this Colonel North house is on?

[woodburner]

Click this link to see a picture and read the Times Union review.

woodburner

[phaelon56]

According to my uncle John... (who is known for verbosity and in my family that's really saying something)

Col. North became the Aide de Camp to General washington.   Sir William Johnson died in 1774 of there about.   His death resulted in a serious problem for the Indians.   Duanesburg was not yet named;  it's development was the work of James Duane, the first Mayor of NYC after the revolution.The farm house was on the Cherry Valley Turnpike which leads To Otsego Lake {Lake Glimmerglass - of the Leather Stocking Tales}.   From there it went down the Otsego River to the Chenango and Otselic and into the Susquehanna near Binghampton of today. Traveling pioneers would stop at the Farm and William North learned details of the

Iroquois country from them.   The Cherry Valley route was the back door to the Iroquois Confederacy and Col. North's knowledge of the country allowed Washington to send Nathaniel Green to break into the Confederacy through its soft underbelly.   Col North was an important figure in the American victory.  Had Johnson been alive this back gate would have been guarded better than it was.

My grandmother and grandfather met at ages 12 and 14, respectively, on this farm and later courted there during summer visits until their mariage after WW1. I thought it would be so cool of it were now a restaurant so I could take my mom there for a special dinner. The house was still owned by some family member when she was a child but it was more or less given away by the elderly owner, who was swindled in a questionable real estate deal.

Cherry Valley Turnpike indicates that it's on Rte 20 but I'm not sure how close to the vilage of Duanseburg it actually is.

[robert40]

I wonder if this restaurant in near by Schoharie is the one in the photo.

It's called the George Mann Tory Tavern.

http://www.timesunion.com/entertainment/re...estaurantID=614

[phaelon56]

I wonder if this restaurant in near by Schoharie is the one in the photo.

It's called the George Mann Tory Tavern.

No... the house in the photo is definitely a wood frame structure with clapboards - no brick (sorry for the poor photo quality but I have seen better photos of it and it was a white wooden structure). It has to be on or adjacent to the "Cherry Valley Turnpike" which today is generally NY State Route 20.

My grandfather and great-uncle used to walk out there from Schenectady for their weekend visits and I believe it was about a 12 - 15 mile walk.

[robert40]

I wonder if this restaurant in near by Schoharie is the one in the photo.

It's called the George Mann Tory Tavern.

No... the house in the photo is definitely a wood frame structure with clapboards - no brick (sorry for the poor photo quality but I have seen better photos of it and it was a white wooden structure). It has to be on or adjacent to the "Cherry Valley Turnpike" which today is generally NY State Route 20.

My grandfather and great-uncle used to walk out there from Schenectady for their weekend visits and I believe it was about a 12 - 15 mile walk.

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I live about ten miles from Duanesburg and if you give me a few days I would be glad to ride out to that area, and see if there is a house similar to the photo.

If so I will snap a few photos and PM you.

[woodburner]

Excpert from the Times Union, Sunday Edition, November 7, 2004

Dinner and a massage

Geri Freeman, a Saratoga Springs personal chef, and Carol Wooden, a licensed massage therapist from Ballston Spa, earlier this year began combining their specialties for a new business: Dinner & Massage.

The two women will come to your home with everything from salt and pepper to body oils and a massage table and provide a pre-dinner massage followed by a meal. On top of that, they do the dishes and clean up afterward. Freeman calls it "the ultimate pampering."

Different packages are available, depending on the menu a client wants and the length of the massage. A basic dinner for two with a half-hour massage for each person costs $190. They can accommodate up to four. Details: 312-7163.

woodburner

[phaelon56]

Damn. Think about all the years I've been providing this service and never got a penny for it.

Then again... the massage followed dinner and there was typically an agenda

Seriously speaking though - wouldn't you rather have the massage after dinner rather than before?

[docsconz]

Damn.  Think about all the years I've been providing this service and never got a penny for it. 

Then again...  the massage followed dinner and there was typically an agenda   

Seriously speaking though - wouldn't you rather have the massage after dinner rather than before?

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It's not as comfortable to get a good belly massage after dinner.

Given that Saratoga is "Spa City" I'm surprised this hasn't been done before. Then again, as much as I love both dining and massages, I don't really see this as a natural combination.

[fatcatbrew]

I'll be dining at Chez Sophie on Friday night the 12th. Looking forward to it. Thank you all for your comments.

[docsconz]

I'll be dining at Chez Sophie on Friday night the 12th.  Looking forward to it.  Thank you all for your comments.

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Have a great dinner! Be sure to let them know you heard about them here.

[menton1]

I'll be dining at Chez Sophie on Friday night the 12th.  Looking forward to it.  Thank you all for your comments.

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How about a much-belated report about your dinner here?

[rich]

This year I decided to try something different before the Saratoga Thoroughbred meet. I made it a point to visit the Spa several times in June and July to sample this year's cuisine.

Here's what I found. First, the best restaurant in the area (not counting the Inn at Erlowest) is the Wine Bar on Broadway - they really have no competition anymore. Second place is a toss-up between Sargo's, Chez Sophie, Chez Pierre and Springwater. After that most of the rest is just ordinary with one new exception. The dining room on the fifth floor at City Tavern. It's run by the former chef at Chameleon. The food is very good and will probably get better with a little time.

Chameleon has cut back its menu considerably and the food has dropped a notch. Paradiso closed last year at the old Tradewinds location and is now moving back to its former place, the mansion just south of town on Route 50, Villa Basalmo. But it wasn't opened yet on my last visit - if it's anything like it was about five-six years ago, it will be worth a try.

A drive out of Saratoga will produce such gems as the Cock and Bull, Winslows, Friends Lake Inn and the best food north of Manhattan - the Inn at Erlowest. There are a few others in the Warrensburg area, but the drive makes them "GU" choices.

Edited July 25, 2005 by rich (log)

[docsconz]

I had dinner at Sargo's last week and was extremely disappointed. The place is beautiful and the menu reads well enough to get my digestive juices flowing. Unfortunately, though the decriptions are appetizing and the plates very nicely presented, the food was only mediocre at a very high price. My main course was the veal stuffed with lobster. The description certainly sounded intriguing and this is supposed to be one of the restaurant's sugnature dishes but the reality was that the dish lacked balance, complexity of flavor or any real pizzazz. The lobster was lost in the dish. It seemd to be there only for the luxe quotient it provided. I certainly didn't taste it. It really didn't add anything texturally either. The flavor of the dish was utterly dominated by the herb stuffing of the involtino.

The service wasn't good either. We had empty water glases for an extended period of time with no one to even flag over to fill them.

While I would consider returning under the right circumstances I would be in no hurry to do so. In my estimation there is no comparison between this restaurant and either Chez Sophie or The Inn at Erlowest. Erlowest is probably the more direct competitor stylistically. There is no question for me that Erlowest offers the finest dining in the region, though Chez Sophie remains the bellweather of Saratoga dining for me.

Rich, what do you recommend at The Wine Bar?

[rich]

Rich, what do you recommend at The Wine Bar?

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I had two meals there and the two dishes I would recommend are the rack of lamb served over a warm olive salad and the sauteed skate served over a white/black/kidney bean mixture.

The appetizer Tomato Tart is simply outstanding as is their cheese selection for "dessert."

And I agree with you Doc, the Inn at Erlowest is in the class by itself, but the drive after a "hard day" at the track might be a bit much. Could be a good Tuesday place if they're open.

Sorry about your meal at Sargo's. Mine was good to very good, but you're right about the prices. I would only return if I "scored" at the track that day. The room is stunning.

While I still enjoy Chez Sophie, I thought it was better at the Lake Luzerne location and better still when it was next door to the bakery (forget the name).

Edited July 25, 2005 by rich (log)

[menton1]

We were recently in Saratoga and were told that the Wine Bar was not really for dinner, but for lunch, brunch, or afternoon "Tapas". Or maybe a pre-concert light fare or even after concert. From the description we got of the place, it didn't seem to offer full dinners. Do you have other information? It seems from the posts that you DID have a full dinner there...

[rich]

We were recently in Saratoga and were told that the Wine Bar was not really for dinner, but for lunch, brunch, or afternoon "Tapas".  Or maybe a pre-concert light fare or even after concert.  From the description we got of the place, it didn't seem to offer full dinners.  Do you have other information?  It seems from the posts that you DID have a full dinner there...

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That's quite interesting because when I was there, it wasn't opened for lunch or during the afternoon hours at all. I don't know if that will change during racing season.

Yes, they have a full dinner menu and you can sit upstairs either at one of the six tables or at the bar. There is also a downstairs dining room. Sure, you can have all of their menu choices as "small plates," but it is certainly a full dinner place. There's even a port/cigar room for after dinner located opposite the bar on the upper floor.

Just checked out their web site - only open from 4:00 p.m. - closing. Full menu and wine list www.thewinebarofsaratoga.com.

Edited July 25, 2005 by rich (log)

[docsconz]

There is a new restaurant recently opened in the Arts area on Beekman Street. It serves local quality produce cooked in a modern style. While I haven't been yet, I hear it is good. Unfortunately, I don't know the name. I will report when I have additional information.

In other Saratoga updates, I believe Max at Mrs. London's continues to proceed developing in the space next to Mrs. London's on Broadway, although I very much doubt it will be open before the end of the summer. I predict, though, that when it does open it will become the class ofthe Saratoga dining scene. Max London was really starting to rock in the kitchen at Eartha's when he left to pursue other projects.