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Salon des Vignerons Independants de France

bleudauvergne

By bleudauvergne
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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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The same fair that will be in Lyon next weekend 28 Oct - 1 Nov will also be in Paris at the from 25 - 29 November. We go this fair every year.

Link to the website

At the fairs, the arrangement of the vineyards' stands is very complex. They mix everything up so that there's never any two vineyards making the same type wine right next to each other. This is done to keep people from making direct comparisons between the wines, in all fairness to the vignerons, but it makes it much more difficult to choose...

Every year we prepare more and more for this event. The first year, we just browsed and tasted here and there, sticking mostly to the local wines, and left with a few cases of OK wines. You taste, you forget to use the bucket, you taste some more, and then everything starts to taste just great, and you buy. It was definitely hit or miss.

The next year we made a list of certain vignerons we planned to see and were more strict about spitting so we didn't end up buying n'import quoi, we spent a little more money put a little more thought into it, and bought things from the beginning, and we took home better wines.

Last year we limited outselves to Champagnes, clairettes, some Bourdeaux and bourdelais, and found some nice ones, and followed up with a trip to the vinyards in Bordeaux, which was really fun.

This year we are getting serious, we want to invest in the cave and really start serving some great ones at the table. My husband has found that his tastes follow along the lines of Dussert-Gerber; we often buy something, like it, learn more about it, and find out that this guide has ranked it well. So my husband is using this year's guide as a reference for how we go about tasting. We made a list of all of the vineyards who will have stands in Lyon and are listed among premier or deuxieme in their category. I've put it in table form so we can index it by stand number, by region, by vinyard, by rating, and and also a list of the specific the wines and years which are directly mentioned in the rating. We are printing out the list with space for comments. I wouldn't mind sharing our list if anyone plans to go to this event either in Lyon or Paris.

A friend of mine says she takes cheese to these events to eat between tastings to cleanse the palate.

Does anyone have further suggestions about how to get the most out of the fair?

Lucy's Kitchen Notebook
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Bux

Bux

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I've heard pros and cons about the effects of cheese on the taste of wine. There are many today who feel that cheese and red wine is not the ideal match and that the custom of drinking them together is result of cheese coming at the end of the meal. Be that as it may, I recall reading a long time ago that a wine merchant's trick was to offer a bit of cheese with his tastes because it made the wine taste better. You friend may not be cleansing her palate as much as coating to make the next wine taste better.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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The wine fair starts today, and will last 4 days. We have entrance passes for each of the 4 days. There are about 400 vendors, and we have created our short list of the stands we want to visit. From these, we will choose one or two from each category of which to buy one or two cases. The list of wines we want to taste are listed here by region, although we have 4 versions of this list, the other arranged by ranking, vinyard, and stand no. Our criteria for making the list was the Dussert-Gerber ranking . For each vigneron in the list, the vinyard in caps is followed with the Dussert-Gerber ranking for this year in italics. Next on the line are the particular wines they are likely to have available for tasting, and their list price, for reference, finally the stall number in Lyon.

Many if not all of these vignerons are likely to be in Paris in November.

Here's the list:


  1. VAL DE LOIRE – VENDEE
  2. DOMAINE AUX MOINES 1er GVC, SC1 Savennieres Blanc 2002, Nonnes 2002 12€, doux Abbesse 2002, 14€ E – 75
  3. DOMAINE FARDEAU 2ème GVC, SC1, -11 Cabernet Anjou-Villages rouge, 5.90€ D – 22
  4. DOMAINE LES PINS 1er GVC, SC2, -3 Bourgueil Vieilles Vignes 7€, cuvée exception 2001 8.50€ D – 43
  5. DOMAINE MABILEAU Laurent 1er GVC, SC3, -9 St Nicolas de Bourgueil 2002, 5.50€, Bourgueil 2002 C – 74
  6. DOMAINE DOZON 1er GVC, SC1 Clos du Saut au Loup 2001, 7.95 €, Laure 2002, 6.15€, et 2001, Le bois Joubert 2001, Les Lysons 2002 C – 128
  7. DOMAINE DES ROUET 1er GVC, SC2, -4 Battereaux 2001, 2000 D – 15
  8. DOMAINE FARDEAU 1er GVC, SC2, -1 Vieilles Vignes 2002, 12€ , Stefy 2003, 23€ D – 22
  9. DOMAINE DES QUARRES 2ème GVC, SC2, -13 Faye Prestige La Madeleine 2002 D – 56
  10. DOMAINE DESCHAMPS 1er GVC, SC3, -6 Vieilles Vignes 2002, 9.50€, Les Procheronnes 2003, 8€, Les Loges 2002, Pouilly-sur-Loire, 5.50€ C – 92
  11. DOMAINE ROUZE Jacques 1er GVC, SC1 vins rouges, Quincy 2003, Vignes d’Antan 2003, Reuilly 2002 D – 32
  12. DOMAINE DES VARINELLES 1er GVC, SC1 Vieilles Vignes 2001, 7.80€, 2003, 6€, Larivale 2001, 14.10€, Crémant, 6.50€ D – 25
  13. DOMAINE DUTERTRE 1er GVC, SC4, -7 Crémant St Gilles 6.80€, Touraine rosé 2003, François 1er 2002, Clos du Pavillon 2003, 4.30€-4.60€ D – 117
  14. DOMAINE OCTAVIE 3ème GVC, -20 Cabernet 2001, Sauvignon 2003, Pinot noir 2002, Cot 2002 C – 16


  1. ALSACE EST
  2. VIGNOBLES MUHLBERGER François 1er GVC, SC1 Pinot noir, 7.30€, Crémant, 6.70€ A – 81
  3. GSELL Joseph 1er GVC, SC2, -3 Crémant 6.90€, Tokay 7.20€, SC3 Gewurtztraminer Spiegel 2002, 11.40€ D – 31
  4. HUTTARD Jean 1er GVC, SC1 Tardives 2000, Crémant, 7€, Tokay Particulière 2001, Riesling Prestige 2001, Pinot blanc Vieilles Vignes D – 85
  5. FREYBURGER Georges et Claude 1er GVC, SC1 Riesling Altenberg 2000, Tokay 2002, Gewurtztraminer Atltenberg 98 E – 8
  6. GINGLINGER Jean et Fils 2ème GVC, SC1 Steinert 2002, 11.50€, Riesling tardives2001, 19€, Bilh 2001, 11€, Lerchenberg 99 C – 118
  7. VIGNOBLES MUHLBERGER François 1er GVC, SC1 Altenberg de Wolxheim 2000, 7.50€, Clos philippe 2001, SC3 Gewurtz Tardives 2001, 16€ A – 81
  8. DOMAINE BAUR Charles 1er GVC, SC2, -7 Riesling Eichberg, Gewurtztraminer Pfersigberg, Tardives 2000 E – 95
  9. DOMAINE BAUMANN-ZIRGEL 1er GVC, SC3 Tokay Tardives 99, Gewurtztraminer Mandelberg 2000, Tardives 2000, Riesling Mandelberg 2001 D – 121
  10. DOMAINE SAINT REMY 2ème GVC, SC1, -18 Grand cru 2001, 9.70€, Pinot noir 2002, 6.70€ A – 47


  1. LANGUEDOC ROUSSILLON
  2. DOMAINE DE LA CASA BLANCA 1er GVC, SC3 Banyuls Tradition 2002, Blanc, Collioure rosé et rouge B – 29
  3. CHATEAU DE LASTOURS 1er GVC, SC1 2000, 15.50€, Signature 2001, Anaud de Berre 2000, Simone Descamps 2001, Grande Rompue 2000, Blans de blancs, Dry, Gris de gris, Chatellenie E – 46
  4. CHATEAU ETANG DES COLOMBES 1er GVC, SC1 bois des dames rouge 2002, blanc 2002, Vieilles Vignes 2003, Blanc 2003, Bicentenaire 2002 C – 51
  5. CHATEAU DE L'ESPARROU 1er GVC, SC4, -11 Blanc des blancs 2003, 4.70€, rosé 2003, rouge en fût de chêne 2001, 7.50€, Vin de pays Côtes Catalane, 3.80€, Rivesaltes, 7€ E – 23
  6. DOMAINE DU MAS ROUS 1er GVC, SC5, -15 En fût de chêne 2001, Traditionnel, Rivesaltes 2003 D – 116
  7. CHATEAU PRADAL NC Côtes du Roussillon 99, 4.10€, Rivesaltes 2003, 7.15€, Rivesaltes Tuilé 95, 8.60€ B – 12
  8. CHATEAU MOSSE NC Côtes du Roussillon 2002, 7.50€ D – 75
  9. DOMAINE LERYS 1er GVC, SC2, -4 Fitou cuvée prestige 2001 C – 28
  10. CHATEAU LA GRAVE 2ème GVC, SC1 Minervois Privilège 2001, 7.90€, blanc 2001, 9.70€, Expression blanc 2003, 5.70€ E – 33


  1. PROVENCE
  2. CHATEAU BEAUFERAN 1er GVC, SC2, -3 Coteaux-d’Aix 2001, 6.10€, Blanc Tradition 2003, 6.90€, rosé friand 2003, 5.80€ F – 29
  3. PROVENCE DOMAINES BUNAN 1er GVC, SC3 Bandol La Rouvière 2001, Moulin des Costes, 2002 et 2003 A – 70
  4. PROVENCE DOMAINE LES LUQUETTES 2ème GVC, SC1 Bandol rosé 2003, 8€, rouge 2000, 18€ B – 31
  5. PROVENCE DOMAINE LA ROCHE REDONNE 2ème GVC, SC1 Bandol Bartavelles 2002, La Lyre blanc 2001 E – 30
  6. PROVENCE CHATEAU DES FERRAGES 2ème GVC, SC1 Côtes de Provence Mon plaisir rouge 2002, blanc 2003, 8.30€, rosé 2003, Roumery 2002, 5.40€ D – 23


  1. SUD-OUEST-ARMAGNAC
  2. CHATEAU LE MAYNE 1er GVC, SC1 Côtes de Bergerac Réservée 2000, 7.15€, 99, 6.75€, Bergerac blanc sec et rosé 2003, 4.50€, Moelleux 2001, Montbazillac 2001, 4.80€, Montbazillac Réservée 2001, 13.70€ A – 40
  3. DOMAINE DU HAUT PECHARMANT 1er GVC, SC2 Pécharmant 2001 F – 51
  4. CHATEAU CLAMENS 1er GVC, SC2, -2 Côtes-du-Frontonnais 2001, Julie 2002 C – 95
  5. CHATEAU EUGENIE 1er GVC, SC2, -5 Cahors Aïeul 2001, 8.50€, Tsars 2001, Haute Collection 2001 D – 118
  6. DOMAINE DES GRAVALOUS 1er GVC, SC3, -11 Cahors réserve 200, 7.50€, Prestige 200, 13.25€, traditionnelle 200, 6.25€) E – 35 9
  7. CLOS BASTE 1er GVC, SC3, -11 Madiran 2001, Esprit, Vin de Pays rouge C – 124
  8. CHATEAU DE PERCHADE 2ème GVC, SC1 Tursan Passion 2000, 6.80€, blanc 2003, 5€ D – 104
  9. DOMAINE DU CINQUAU 2ème GVC, SC3 Jurançon 2002 et 2003 E – 20
  10. DOMAINE DE GINESTE 3ème GVC, SC1 Gaillac rouge Pourpre 2002, 6€, douc Blnde 2002, 10€, blanc Aurore 2002 C – 37


  1. VALLEE DU RHONE
  2. CHATEAU RASPAIL 1er GVC, SC1 Gigondas 2001, 9.50€, 2000, Châteauneuf du pape Valori 2001, 14€, Côtes du Rhône Ruth, 4.90€, CDR-Villages St Jean, 6€ D – 34
  3. CHATEAU DE LA GARDINE/ CHATEAU SAINT ROCH 1er GVC, SC1 Châteauneu-du-Pape Tradition Blanc 2001, 33,20€, rouge 2001, Gaston-Philippe 2001 58€, Rasteau C – 130
  4. CHATEAU LA DECELLE 1er GVC, SC2 Valréas 2003, CDR Symphonie 2003, blanc 2002(viognier), Coteaux-du-Triscatin 2003 B – 28
  5. DOMAINE DU PESQUIER 1er GVC, SC2 Gigondas 2001, 2000 11€, CDR 2001, 5€) B – 40
  6. DOMAINE MATHIEU 1er GVC, SC2 Châteauneuf-du-Pape Marquis d’Anselme, 2000et 2001, 20-22€, Tradition 200114.70€, Blanc 2003, 15€, CDR Mar 2003 rouge, rosé C – 59
  7. DOMAINE DE MONTINE 1er GVC, SC3 Coteaux du Tricastin Terroirs 2003, blanc 2003, 4.60€, rosé 2003, CDR Villages 2003, 4.60€ D – 61
  8. DOMAINE LE COUROULU 1er GVC, SC3 Vacqueyras 2001, 7€, Vin de pays de Vaucluse, 5€, Vieilles Vignes, blanc F – 19
  9. DOMAINE CHARAVIN Didier 1er GVC, SC3 Rasteau Parpajouns 2001, 10€, Rasteau Prestige 2001, 7€, Rasteau 2002, 6€ B – 63
  10. DOMAINE DU POURRA 1er GVC, SC4 Gigondas 2000 et 2001 B – 72
  11. MORION Didier 2ème GVC, SC1 Saint Joseph les échets B – 51
  12. DOMAINE DES GIRASOLS 2ème GVC, SC1 Vieilles Vignes 2001, Rasteau rosé 2002 E – 79
  13. DOMAINE DE FONTENILLE 2ème GVC, SC2 Côtes du Lubéron rouge 2002, blanc 2003, 5€ C – 42
  14. FAURE Jacques nc Crémant de Die, 6e, Tradition, Coteaux-de –Die, 3.60€ B – 6


  1. BORDELAIS-AQUITAINE
  2. CHATEAU CASTEGENS 1er GVC, SC1 Côtes de Castillon, 6 à 7 € D – 24
  3. CHATEAU LARDIERE-DOMAINE DE JEREMIE 1er GVC, SC1 Premières Côtes de Blaye 2001, 6.90€, Tradition 2001, 5€, blanc sec 2003, rosé 2003, 4.10€, Pineau blanc et rosé 8€ D – 100
  4. CHATEAU BRETHOUS 1er GVC, SC3 Premières Côtes de Bordeaux 2001, 200, 99, 98, 6.50€ à 9.10€, Bordeaux Clairet, 5.10€ D – 54
  5. CHATEAU HAUT MOUSSEAU 2ème GVC, SC1 Côtes de Bourg 2001, 7€, Terrefort-Bellegrave C – 2
  6. CLOS TRIMOULET 2ème GVC, SC1 Saint-émilion E – 71
  7. CHATEAU DUDON 2ème GVC, SC1 Premières Côtes de Bordeaux JB Dudon 2001, 6€, Blanc F – 22
  8. CHATEAU L'ESCART 2ème GVC, SC1 Bordeaux Supérieurs Marion 2001, 2000 E – 40
  9. CHATEAU DE BEAU SITE 2ème GVC, SC2 Graves Les Clos de Beau-Site 2000, Château de Beau-Site 2001 E – 103
  10. CHATEAU CAPET GUILLIER-CHATEAU TOUR DE CAPET 2ème GVC, SC2 Try what they’re recommending B – 80
  11. CHATEAU MILON- CLOS DE LA CURE 2ème B GVC, SC2 Saint-émilion GC 2001, 2000, 11.50€, E – 97
  12. CHATEAU MAGNEAU 2ème A GVC, SC2 Graves Julien blanc 2002, rouge 2000, blanc 2003, 6€ à 8.50€) D – 69
  13. CHATEAU MONLOT CAPET 2ème A GVC, SC2 Saint-émilion GC Prestige 2000 23€, Lalande De Pomerol Bel Air B – 17
  14. CHATEAU BELLES-GRAVES 2ème GVC, SC3 Lalande de Pomerol 2001 C – 81
  15. CHATEAU LA HAYE - SAINT ESTEPHE 2ème A GVC, SC5 Saint-Estèphe 2001, 14.50€ E – 39
  16. CHATEAU GRANINS - GRAND POUJEAUX 3ème GVC, SC1 Moulis 2001, 2000, 99, 98, 12€ C – 48
  17. CHATEAU PONTAC-LYNCH 3ème GVC, SC1 Margaux 99-2001 A – 72
  18. CHATEAU LAFARGUE NC Graves Pessac-Léognan 2001, et blanc 2002 C – 76
  19. CHATEAU BOIS-MALOT NC -8 € E – 85
  20. CHATEAU CANDELEY NC Entre-deux-mers A – 85
  21. CHATEAU DE PORTE PERES NC Graves 2001, 7.50€, Clos Graouères 2001, 7€, Moulin-à-Vent B – 30
  22. CHATEAU DES TOURTES - CHATEAU HAUT BEYZAC NC Premières Côtes de Blaye D – 86
  23. CHATEAU FONTIS NC Médoc 2001, 2000, 99 B – 53
  24. CHATEAU LALANDE LABATUT NC Entre deux mers Prestige, 7€, Marysou 2000 A – 31


  1. CHAMPAGNE
  2. CHAMPAGNE GONET SULCOVA 2ème B GVC, SC1 Special Club, Grand Cru 99, Blanc de blancs 99, Vincent Gonet, Gaia, Extra Millésime 98 B – 15
  3. CHAMPAGNE MONCUIT Pierre 2ème B GVC, SC4 Vieilles Vignes 89, cuvée Réserve, Millésimé, 13-19€ E – 42
  4. CHAMPAGNE CHARPENTIER J. 3ème A GVC, SC2 Comte de Chenizot, 16,20€, Millésime 98, 15,60€, Pierre-Henri, 20,80€ A – 26
  5. CHAMPAGNE LACROIX NC Blanc de noirs, 13.85€, rosé 13,60€, Tradition, 12,30€ D – 91
  6. CHAMPAGNE J.B MICHEL NC Pauline, 18,30€, Rose, Blanche brut, 13€ C – 33


  1. BOURGOGNE-BEAUJOLAIS
  2. BLONDEAU DANNE Charles Père 1er GVC, SC1 Meursault 1er Cru sous le Bois 2002, 20€, Puligny-Montrachet Sur la Garenne 2002, 21€, Saint Aubin Le Village, 12€, Les Crombes D – 113
  3. DOMAINE BEL AVENIR 1er GVC, SC2 Chénas 2001, 6.25€, Grand Guinchay 2003, La Chapelle Bois de Loyse 2003 C – 26
  4. DOMAINE DES CRAIS 1er GVC, SC2 Beaujolais Village, 2ème GVC, SC3, St Veran Vieilles Vignes 2000 7.60€ C – 58
  5. DOMAINE BILLARD GONNET 2ème GVC, SC1 Pommard Chaponnières Vieilles Vignes 2000 16€, 1er cru Rugiens Bas 2000 A – 7
  6. DOMAINE DELAGRANGE Henri et Fils 2ème GVC, SC1 Volnay-Caillerets 1er cru 2002, 18€, Clos du Village 2002, 17€, Pommard Chanlain 2002, 18€, Auxey-Duresses blanc 2000 12€ D – 14
  7. DOMAINE TAUPENOT-MERME 2ème GVC, SC1 Gevrey-Chambertin 1er cru Bel-Air 2001, Nuits-Saint-Georges, Morey-Saint-Denis 2001, Charmes Chambertin 2001 B – 27
  8. DOMAINE DE LA FEUILLARDE 2ème GVC, SC3 Saint Véran Vieilles Vignes 2002, 7.90€, Presitge Fût de chêne 2001, 8.40€, Tradition 2002, 6.85€ A – 60
  9. GVC, SC3, DOMAINE MOSNIER Sylvain 2ème Chablis 1er cru Beauroy 2002, Vieilles Vignes 2002, Côtes de Léchet 11€, Chablis 8€ A – 45
  10. DOMAINE CACHAT-OCQUIDANT ET FILS 2ème GVC, SC3 Aloxe-Corton Les Maréchaudes 2002, Corton-Vergennes 2001, Ladoix 2002 C – 86
  11. DOMAINE FELIX ET FILS 3ème GVC, SC1 Chablis 2002, 7.50€, Saint-Bris Sainte Claire 2002 6.50€, Côtes-d’Auxerre Saint-André 2000 8.50€, Aligoté 2002 5.10€ E – 28
  12. DOMAINE GILLE Anne-Marie 3ème GVC, SC1 Nuits-Saint-Georges Les Brûlées 2001 14€ D – 26
  13. DOMAINE MALDANT Jean-Luc 3ème GVC, SC1 Savigny-les-Beaune 2002 13€, blanc 2001 B – 34
  14. DOMAINE PATRIARCHE Alain et Christiane NC Meursault, 20€ F – 18


  1. JURA - SAVOIE
  2. DOMAINE TISSOT C – 18
  3. DOMAINE ROLET A – 82
  4. DOMAINE PETIT Désiré D – 115
  5. DOMAINE DUPASQUIER C – 22
  6. DOMAINE DE LA PINTE F – 14
  7. DOMAINE BAUD E – 18

Tonight we will begin with the Champagnes and Clairettes, plus Alsacians. :rolleyes:

Lucy's Kitchen Notebook
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Boris_A

Boris_A

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I recall reading a long time ago that a wine merchant's trick was to offer a bit of cheese with his tastes because it made the wine taste better.

There's an old wine merchant bonmot: When you are buying wine, serve apple pieces. When you are selling wine, serve cheese.

I still prefer pieces of rather neutral bread (baguette) and a sip of water to neutralize my palate and to get rid of the tannin coating in my mouth. And most important: give your palate and your nose some rest from time to time. Otherwise, you're in danger to prefer those wines that shine in endless tasting series: after 5-10 sips, only the fruity, oaky, densly structured wines will be able to permeate the established sensoric threshold. Those might be great wines, but they are much more difficult with food or with having a relaxed quaffing with people who are not that much interested in wine itself. According to my observation, many of them like good wine, but in general, blockbusters are just too concentrated for their taste.

Lucy, I think I'm going to buy a Dussert-Gerber. I know the guide, but I never used it. Sounds interesting.

Make it as simple as possible, but not simpler.

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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Apples and bread it is. :smile: Thank you Boris & Bux.

Otherwise, you're in danger to prefer those wines that shine in endless tasting series: after 5-10 sips, only the fruity, oaky, densly structured wines will be able to permeate the established sensoric threshold. Those might be great wines, but they are much more difficult with food or with having a relaxed quaffing with people who are not that much interested in wine itself. According to my observation, many of them like good wine, but in general, blockbusters are just too concentrated for their taste.

That's very good advice Boris. As you can see there are over 100 wines on our list. We'll never taste all of them. My husband is a densely structured wine kind of guy. I personally tend to prefer wine/food matches, thus I'm thinking of what kind of food would go with the wines when I taste them. Don't bother asking the vendors - they'll usually just say what they think you want to hear. I rely on my imagination techniques a whole lot during this process. I certainly don't mind a nice glass of something rich and complex by itself every once in a while. We each have our own approach... I suspect we'll separate at the fair in search of various different wines.

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kerriar

kerriar

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bleudauvergne,

This is a really interesting thread and makes me want to get to the Lille event.

Could you say a little more about the

Dussert-Gerber ranking
. From your list I am assuming that these are growers/producers in the small to medium category or who are "indépendants" and who are (happily?) below the horizons of the larger guides, particularly the anglophone ones. How does the ranking system function?

Are all the participants Dussert-Gerber rated? I can see that the list includes internationally known names like Daumas Gassac but for the most part these producers do not register with me.

When you say you buy cases, these presumably are for delivery later.

Bux is totally correct about the apple/cheese point and it's frequently quoted on wine tastings - much better to cleanse the pallet with bread and water but as an absolutely non-professional taster I find it difficult to "cracher" all day. Sooner or later you start thinking "this is far too good to spit out" and any objectivity soon disappears. It's time to put away the cheque book and just enjoy the tasting.

It would be interesting to know what you eventually buy and whether its for laying down or for early drinking.

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Bux

Bux

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Bux is totally correct about the apple/cheese point

Actually it's Boris who's correct. I only supplied the one caveat. I'll agree with both of you that bread and water is best between sips.

I'm also unfamiliar with the great majority of those names, but I'm hardly a compendium of French winemakers, not even of the best, the least expensive, the ones with the best values or anything of the sort. Of the two or maybe three in any category which ring a bell and offer bottlings which also ring a bell, all I can say is that if I'm made the right connections, prices are higher here in NY. That's not really news. NYC competes real well on prices for the most expensive wines and those which are bottled and sold in mass quantities. The smaller the producer and the more artesian his operation, the highter the premium in NYC. For what it's worth, the situation is worse when it comes to cheese. Worse yet, are those tantalizing photographs of cheese Lucy is bound to tease us with from time to time. The thing about a good bottle of wine is that it's not any more photogenic than a bad bottle. I've seen the loveliest labels on plonk.

Robert Buxbaum

WorldTable

Recent WorldTable posts include: comments about reporting on Michelin stars in The NY Times, the NJ proposal to ban foie gras, Michael Ruhlman's comments in blogs about the NJ proposal and Bill Buford's New Yorker article on the Food Network.

My mailbox is full. You may contact me via worldtable.com.

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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After our incredible weekend of wine (which included Monday as it is a holiday here), I will not hesitate to encourage all members of eG who find themselves near their local version of this event to GO! To help Kerriar who was asking for more details on the Dussert-Gerber Ranking, here is a link to the website that the book directs you to. If you can't read French, go ahead and google translate and you should get the gist of the ideas behind his ranking system. Some people this weekend mentioned this weekend that the Dussert Gerber ranking system is good for people who are working on building a cave, I'd love to hear anyone's thoughts on this.

So - about the wine fair. I'll be adding pictures soon, and I'll add the list o what we ended up choosing for the cave - hope to have them up by tonight!

A few notes about our methodology for choosing the best wines.

1) We didn't swallow any wine at all while at the fair before we had made our purchases for that day, we always used the bucket. No matter how we felt about how nice this wine might feel going down our throat, (especially those champagnes) we had to really exercise some self control in this area. If you do drink, even 2 or three tastes which can quickly add up, your ability to carefully judge will fade. The time to drink and enjoy for us was after we'd made our purchase decisions.

2) The vignerons were trying to sell us their wines, so we took what they said with a grain of salt. As you taste, they are going to give their running commentary on what you're supposed to be tasting... If you've got a 2003 rielsing and the person trying to sell it to you says "delicate notes of flowers are followed by an exceptional lingering presence on the palate" you can't help but think... We found that much of the commentary was useful in our learning process about the wine. For example, several people said - this grape comes from a more mineral soil. What did that mean? After a couple of times I began to understand what that does to the flavor of the wine... Finally, I noticed, for example, that at the end of the day the vignerons started mentioning food more and more often. Was it on purpose? People are getting tired and beginning to think of what dinner will be, they want to sit down, relax. The vigneron smiles and says - "this wine goes perfectly with rich sauced game and poultry and fruit compotes" - you might feel some strange attraction to the wine. Hmm, I wonder why? We were working on trying to buy good wines to keep and serve at our table, and we only do this once a year. So we took it seriously and tried very hard to keep our minds on the task.

3) Do make a list in advance, and try to narrow it down to 5 or 6 of the same wine type, taste them at the same time, and make your choice from that list. Our list of Champagnes consisted of three top ranked wines and two that we'd bought from before. We found right away that when D-G lists a wine as a 1ere Grand Cru, it is clearly in a slot above the 2eme Grand cru. Even being the amateurs we are, we were able to identify that the top ranked were clearly the better wines. Thank you guide D-G! We had a great opportunity to taste the best wines without the hit and miss, and although these are great wines, the prices were still within our budget. We narrowed the list to 7 vignerons for certain wines from the Loire Valley. Even with 7, it was a little bit difficult to compare, but I must say again, the top ranked ones really did prove to be the superior wines. With that trust, we whittled our list down to 5 only best ranked for Alsace, the Bourgognes, the Cotes du Rhones, etc. We could have missed out on some unknown gems, that's for sure. But our goal this weekend was not to get lucky, it was to purchase clearly superior wines for our cave and to serve at our table.

4) Like Boris said, we gave our palette a rest with bread and water often, especially when trying the wines that are more dense. I thought of Boris' words of wisdom the whole time as we concentrated on the Cotes du Rhones. This is a wine that I know well, we drink it all the time. But in the context of comparison, it became quite confusing. Boris' warning that only the wines with the strongest personalities are going to be attractive if we don't do something to bring ourselves back to a level field kept coming to me as we worked through the Rhone valley. Again, when we were ready to choose what to buy, we brought this up in the discussion and even went back to re-taste before we loaded our cart with cases of something we might regret later.

Lucy's Kitchen Notebook
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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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I finally have a moment to post some pictures.

IMG_1290.JPG We did not go on Friday due to some logistical problems and heavy rain. So Saturday morning we were out of the house by 10h00, and at 11h00, I found myself waiting outside the Hall Tony Garnier and being tempted by a quiche which I was only allowed to eat 1/2 of. I nibbled away at the quiche while Loic went to get the cart. He showed up just in time to grab his half... We finished our little picnic outside and then proceeded in to taste the wines. Our pass got us each a goblet with the Independent Vigneron logo on it to carry with us and taste from throughout the day. They are nice souveniers of the fair, and every year we add to the collection.

1. IMG_1302.JPGWe started with champagne that was not featured in the D-G guide, but that we purchased their blanc de noir last year, CHAMPAGNE LACROIX.

We recognised the vigneron, same guy as last year. The people serving us the wines are the ones who actually make them, so we asked all of the questions we wanted, knowing that thy're happy to talk about their wines, they were there when the grapes were picked, and all though the process. We tasted his Tradition, then the Grande Reserve, and then a Millésime 1998. We had questions about how they choose the millésime. They all tasted wonderful to me, and I worried a little bit about how we were going to choose. When we said goodbye to M. Lacroix, I was convinced that we were going to buy a case of their Grande Reserve, at €82.80 a case of 6 - which stood out as the best of the group. But it was only our first wine!

2. IMG_1305.JPG The second wine we tasted was CHAMPAGNE MONCUIT Pierre and this was classed by the D-G guide, a 2ème B GVC, SC4 which means second best class, subcategory 4.

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We were served by Valerie CHARPENTIER MONCUIT.

I was not expecting fireworks but at that point I realised something very important. If a wine even makes it into the D-G guide, it's clearly a cut above. The first wine we tasted was the Cuvée Huges de Coulmet brut, a blanc de blanc 100% chardonnay. This was when I started getting excited. I could really feel in my mouth that that this champagne was exceptional. My doubts about being able to make a decision began to fade, because there were big differences between this and the last wine. The second wine we tasted was a Cuvée Pierre Moncuit Delos Reserve Grand Cru 2001, and then a Millésime 1999 Grand Cru, which I felt was simply the best champagne I had tasted that day, and was priced at €20 per bottle. I made a mark on my notes, this was the one we would buy. Before we said goodbye, we tasted a rosé, 2/3 chardonnay/pinot noir/gambonnais (sp?) mix. She warned us that we should have tasted it earlier in the progression, since it would be like moving backwards. I noticed that the last vigneron also moved us through his wines in a special order. This made sense, and I also remembered the loaf of bread in my bag... As we worked through the crowd to our next stand I broke off some bread and sipped a little bit of water. Loic did too.

3. IMG_1311.JPGCHAMPAGNE CHARPENTIER J. 3ème A GVC, SC2. My first question to the woman serving us was if she was related to the girl who served us our last wine! How strange! What a wierd coincidence. The lady laughed and said that the Champagne region had many many Charpentiers, and no, they were not related. We tasted her Brut Tradition, which seemed a little strange to me. The Reserve Brut, which was a mix of pinot noir and pinot meunier grapes, and then her Compte de Chenizot, which I noted as a possible buy because it was clearly a very nice champagne, very pleasant and was a good 7€ cheaper per bottle than the one we'd chosen as the best from the last place, at €13 per bottle.

4. IMG_1312.JPGCHAMPAGNE GONET SULCOVA 2ème B GVC, SC1. We were greeted by Karla GONET as we approached and she poured us tastes of the Cuvée Vincent GONET.

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We were completely seduced by this Champagne, and could say immediately that it was the best we'd had at that price all day. I felt like it was at the level of the Moncuit we had marked as best, but at only €13 per bottle, well, this was clearly far superior in our minds to any we'd had. We talked about her champagnes as we worked our way though tasting a blanc de blanc 100% chardonnay, at €15, and then as we tasted some simply beautiful wines, ones that were not in our budget but it was very educational to taste them and discuss what went into making them with her, the Brut Grand Cru 1999, the Millésime 1999, and the Brut Cuvée Gaïa, made from grapes coming from 98 year old vines planted by her great grandfather and aged in oak before bottling. This was very special and was €25 per bottle.

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Karla GONET next to her Brut Cuvée Gaïa in the brown bottle.

5. IMG_1320.JPGCHAMPAGNE J.B MICHEL, was not mentioned in the D-G guide, but again, we'd purchased from them in the past so we decided to give them another go.

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Mme MICHEL cordially greeted the tasters. This was the first vigneron we met who was targeting her sales techniques quite shrewdly. She did not identify us as potential big buyers, so, for the first time we were not served our tastes in the flutes normally used by the champagne purveyors for tasting champagne. When we arrived she was working up a couple of obviously rich ladies who were drinking it down with gusto, from their flutes, quite smug that they were being given special treatment. She made her sale as she doled out spashes to us in our wine fair goblets (first time we'd used them!) in between and rolled her eyes with the ladies as we used the spit bucket. When the ladies had gulped down their last drop of wine, purchased large amounts, and went on their way, she turned her attention to us. I asked if I could post her picture, and she gladly agreed. I mentioned that many of the members of eGullet are somehow related to the "metier de la bouche". At that moment, she must have realized something and her face dropped. She turned rather unpleasant as she asked us if I planned to post her prices. But of course, madame. Of course. "Its just that I have some American customers who might get angry, you understand." I didn't quite understand, could she explain that? Finally I assured her that one of my main reasons to post to eGullet on the fair was to emphasize the prices we can get at the fair. "Well, if you put it that way, ok." This woman really was a piece of work. We tasted a Blanche Brut at €14.50, which was nice, but not really measuring up to the others a lower prices, a Cuvée de la Terre blanc de blanc at €18, which I felt did not compare at any level with the other champagnes of the same price, and a Cuvée Rebelle extra brut at €16. Loic and I asked her to tell us more about the extra brut, it struck me as an extremely light and different kind of wine in comparison to the other champagnes we had tasted that day, while not exemplifying the best of the champagnes we had come to taste that day, it's starkness was kind of an abstraction or a caricature of what we imagine champagne to be, and that attracted me... it made me think it would be something nice to break out to celebrate an event, anyway. Mme MICHEL explained that the wine did not have any added sweetners added at the point in production where they normally add them.

We'd tasted all 5 champagnes on our list, and we went to relax for a moment over a glass of water (which we had to pay 2€50 for a small bottle of evian to get a seat at the cafe) and decide. IMG_1330.JPG

Our first decision was that we were going to make sure to bring our own water on the second day! We loved all of the Champagnes we tasted. Our final decision was to buy a case of the CHAMPAGNE GONET SULCOVA Cuvée Vincent GONET, and I decided, against the wise advice of my husband, to get 2 bottles of the J.B. MICHEL Cuvée Rebelle extra brut. You never know when you might need a bottle of extra dry champagne. I'm actually hoping there's one day this year we might have something requiring a stark champagne like this to celebrate.

The champagnes took 1 hour and 15 minutes to work through. We estimated 15 minutes per vigneron, including the time it took to work through the increasingly crowded lanes to get to our target wines. We took a moment to check out the Loire Valley list, and since we were only going to be tasting reds from this region and had experienced such a marked difference between the wines based on their ranks already, we eliminated 5 from our list and then plotted a course on the floor plan for which we would taste the next 7 wines in search of the very best to offer from the Loire Valley.

----------------------------------------------

bleudauvergne,

...

Are all the participants Dussert-Gerber rated? I can see that the list includes internationally known names like Daumas Gassac but for the most part these producers do not register with me.

When you say you buy cases, these presumably are for delivery later.

...

Kerriar, we went through the whole list and if you count the total, roughly 1 out of 5 of the vignerons at the fair are rated in his guide. His guide is not limited to Independents, however, and there are many in his guide that were not at the fair. Another thing to note is that out of all of the champagnes at the fair, only 3 were Dussert-Gerber rated. So you can't apply the rating ratio across the board by wine type.

When we buy cases, they are for sale on the spot. You can of course, order them for delivery and pay a delivery fee, or decide you want to purchase more after you've got the wine home and had a chance to appreciate it at the table.

Lucy's Kitchen Notebook
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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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Here's more pics.

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When we first arrived, it was easy to move around the floor.

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Regional products were on sale in some kiosks.

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Things got more crowded as the day wore on.

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We had a great time. I'll be updating this with other wines we tasted and bought as I have time to do so.

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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I wish I could describe the wine in a more succinct way, I really need to take a course on the common language used to describe what I'm tasting! It may seem very simple, but this year it was very exciting to know in my mind that my scale of judgement somewhat correlates with someone else's. We have been in complete agreement with the picks made by the guide, and at the fair it was a real opportunity to put that to the test and taste and compare a lot of wines. :smile:

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Andre

Andre

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Bleudauvergne thank you for the accurate description.

I try to visit the Salon in Paris every year. The wine exhibition on the 25th-29th of November will be hard work for me as there are still many faulty wines produced and I try to taste as much as I can to have a more clear view of market changes and habits. Most of the shoppers still pay by name/rank as the appellation controllee is highly respected in France.

The sometimes mixed stands are very interesting. Some of the wines can be fairly simple and when tasting several of them from the same area, I noted that sometimes I loose my patience.

I try not to eat anything during the tasting and to concentrate as much as I can.

The day starts usually with a huge breakfast that will make most puke. This will allow me several hours of tastimg without the need to park for those appealing stands or a mere Baguette with a Brie de Montagne on a huge peace of fine butter.

It is great to meat the true winemakers of France, a breed destined for extinction.

Andre Suidan

I was taught to finish what I order.

Life taught me to order what I enjoy.

The art of living taught me to take my time and enjoy.

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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Hi Andre, this is what I had for lunch outside the fair this year. :smile:

IMG_1287.JPG

I agree, I think one of the best things about the fair is a chance to talk to the winemakers, for 10- 15 minutes, without the long chateau tour and high pressure visit to the tasting room. :raz:

I think they mix the stands to try and make it difficult to make direct comparisons which would give the better vignerons a direct advantage over their neighbors. However, if you are looking for the best wines it's best in my opinion to do your homework and compare.

Having a chance to taste and compare several of the same type wines made by different producers at one time, given that you're organized enough to do your research in advance, is one of the best features of having 500 winemakers in one place at one time.

Tchin!

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bleudauvergne

bleudauvergne

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Here's what we finally ended up buying over the three days we were there. We tasted 5-7 of each group. (the list is not in order):

VAL DE LOIRE – VENDEE

1. DOMAINE ROUZE Jacques 1er GVC, SC1 Reuilly 2002 €7.50, Reuilly 2003 €6.20D – 32

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Mme Adele ROUZE

2. DOMAINE DES VARINELLES 1er GVC, SC1 Saumer Champigny 2003 €6.00 D – 25

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3. DOMAINE DESCHAMPS 1er GVC, SC3, Pouilly-sur-Loire, €6.00 C – 92

ALSACE EST

1. VIGNOBLES MUHLBERGER François 1er GVC, SC1 Sylvaner €4.50, Tokay Pinot Gris €6.70 - A – 81

2. HUTTARD Jean 1er GVC, SC1 Gewurztraminer 2003 €6.20 D – 85

IMG_0004.JPG

VALLEE DU RHONE

1. CHATEAU LA DECELLE 1er GVC, SC2 Valréas Cuvee St. Paul 2003 €8.95, Cotes du Rhone 2003 €6.60 B – 28

2. DOMAINE DU PESQUIER 1er GVC, SC2 Vacquyras 2003 €8.50 B – 40

3. FAURE Jacques nc Clairette de Die, €6.70 B – 6

BORDELAIS-AQUITAINE

1. CHATEAU CASTEGENS 1er GVC, SC1 Côtes de Castillon 2002 €6.20 D – 24

2. CHATEAU LARDIERE-DOMAINE DE JEREMIE 1er GVC, SC1 Premières Côtes de Blaye 2001, 6.90€ D – 100

3. CHATEAU DE BEAU SITE 2ème GVC, SC2 Graves 2001 €8 E – 100

CHAMPAGNE

See post above

BOURGOGNE-BEAUJOLAIS

1. DOMAINE DES CRAIS 1er GVC, SC2 St Veran Vieilles Vignes €8.10 C – 58

2. DOMAINE MOSNIER Sylvain Chablis 1er cru Côtes de Léchet 12€, Chablis Vieilles Vines 2002 €9.50 A – 45

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  • 2 years later...
John Talbott

John Talbott

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The charming couple, Catherine and Pierre Breton, who have been kind enough to send me invitations ever since we bought some wonderful Bourgueil at their place in the Loire, informed me today that this year's tastings will be

22-29 October in Lyon,

22-26 November in Paris

17-18 Nov in Senlis

18 Nov in Amsterdam

20 Nov in London (at the Winery) and

9 Dec in Troyes.

.

John Talbott

blog John Talbott's Paris

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LindaK

LindaK

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This would be a wonderful addition to the eG Calendar. I don't venture into this Forum often, but this is the kind of event I'd like to know about should I be planning one of my occasional trips to France.

Great posts and pictures, Lucy.


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