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Rien

Orgeat

338 posts in this topic

After a flaming drink, a red drink: The Dutchess with genever (I used Bols), pineapple juice (yes - I admit that I cheated and used a can instead of trying to make my own), homemade orgeat, lime juice, and 1/2 ounces of Angostura bitters.

The Dutchess (Theo Lieberman)

1 1/2 oz genever

1 oz pineapple juice

3/4 oz orgeat

1/2 oz lemon juice

1/2 oz Angostura bitters

It's not bitter at all despite the large amount of Angostura. It feels like it has egg in it because it is creamy and rich, but I think that's just from the orgeat. I don't find the color particularly appealing, but it tastes quite good in a comforting way.

8366691064_4a0ef759be_z.jpg

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The Bitter Spring is a very assertive swizzle with a lot of Fernet that is (slightly) softened by orgeat.

Bitter Spring (Sother Teague)

1 oz Fernet-Branca

1 oz gold rum

3/4 oz ginger syrup

3/4 oz lemon juice

3/4 oz homemade hazelnut orgeat

Heavy dashes Peychaud's bitters

I substituted ginger liqueur for the syrup, and almond orgeat for the hazelnut orgeat.

The cocktail is kind of fun. It would have been better with a more interesting rum - I don't particularly care for the Flor de Cana 4-year gold rum, even though that is what the recipe called for. It does not have much depth of flavor.

8371240199_80ce03119e_z.jpg

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I made a fresh batch of orgeat yesterday which immediately went to work in a Japanese that was followed by the Attorney Privilege FrogPrincesse posted above. I enjoyed both and now I'm curious about what will result if I split the difference and do a 1 oz brandy, 1 oz bourbon, 1/2 oz orgeat version. Gonna find out one evening soon!


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Wow - what lovely stuff orgeat is!. Made my first batch this weekend following Sam's recipe from page 2 of this thread. Delicious.

I was able to persuade my man at the Nut Shop to sell me a small quantity of semi-bitter almonds to replace the suggested apricot kernel. Final quantities, before peeling - the bitter ones were much more tricky, by the way - were probably closer to 250g (200 'normal' almonds, 50g bitter) than Sam's 150, but it all worked fine.

Further ravings here.

Another thing to be grateful to eGullet for ...


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
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To be clear: that's not my recipe. I just scaled a recipe that had already been posted.


Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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The Saturn from Beachbum Berry Remixed (J. "Popo" Galsini)

1 1/4 oz gin

1/2 oz lemon juice

1/2 oz passion fruit syrup

1/4 oz falernum

1/4 oz orgeat

1 cup crushed ice

Blended

8421617903_cc34cb7787_z.jpg

It evoked the Army and Navy, tikified. It is fresh and tart but was a little too tame. I may revise my opinion once I finally make a batch of falernum instead of using the store-bought stuff (or maybe I should have used a more interesting gin).


Edited by FrogPrincesse (log)

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Sounds good, FrogP. I might try that tonight (I likes me gin - we're exclusively using the wonderful locally-made Lighthouse, which includes some native herbs in its botanicals).

I note you say it was tart. I'm finding most recipes seem to vastly overstate how much lemon juice a cocktail needs. Maybe lemons vary around the world, but if I use half - sometimes even less - what the recipe says, I find it more palatable. Has anybody found the same, or is it just me not really liking strong lemon tastes?


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
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After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

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Sounds good, FrogP.

:biggrin: That doesn't abbreviate well.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Sounds good, FrogP. I might try that tonight (I likes me gin - we're exclusively using the wonderful locally-made Lighthouse, which includes some native herbs in its botanicals).

I note you say it was tart. I'm finding most recipes seem to vastly overstate how much lemon juice a cocktail needs. Maybe lemons vary around the world, but if I use half - sometimes even less - what the recipe says, I find it more palatable. Has anybody found the same, or is it just me not really liking strong lemon tastes?

Tart is good by me; I made a note of it because a lot of tiki cocktails are on the sweeter side.

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I note you say it was tart. I'm finding most recipes seem to vastly overstate how much lemon juice a cocktail needs. Maybe lemons vary around the world, but if I use half - sometimes even less - what the recipe says, I find it more palatable. Has anybody found the same, or is it just me not really liking strong lemon tastes?

Tart is good by me; I made a note of it because a lot of tiki cocktails are on the sweeter side.

Yeah, I was thinking maybe it isn't so much that most recipes overstate the citrus as maybe lesliec just prefers a sweeter drink. Just from reading various discussions here on eGullet, the sweetness factor seems to be one of, if not the, top variables that polarizes people.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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I possibly do prefer sweet (in my drinks as well ...), although our 'default' cocktail is a Negroni. But I guess that's more bitter than sour, so not really the right comparison.

I made the Saturn last night (with half the lemon). It was still fairly sharp; I thought maybe the passionfruit was a little dominant. I didn't mind it, although it's not going into my top 10. Jane hated it and I had to have hers too. Such devotion.


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

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Here's a thing ...

Is it common for orgeat to curdle once it's in a drink? Made another Mai Tai last night and it was quite noticeable. (This prompted memories of our early cocktail experiments, when one of our friends consumed a Brain Haemorrhage [baileys and peach schnapps with a drizzle of Grenadine, served in a shot glass. It's supposed to curdle and look revolting - think zombie brains!] and insisted on a second. Shortly afterwards he felt the need for some fresh air ...)

It had no effect on the taste, but it looked a bit odd. Any suggestions?

In other news, I've nearly finished my first batch of orgeat. Have to make another one. Sigh.


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

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Here's a thing ...

Is it common for orgeat to curdle once it's in a drink? Made another Mai Tai last night and it was quite noticeable. (This prompted memories of our early cocktail experiments, when one of our friends consumed a Brain Haemorrhage [baileys and peach schnapps with a drizzle of Grenadine, served in a shot glass. It's supposed to curdle and look revolting - think zombie brains!] and insisted on a second. Shortly afterwards he felt the need for some fresh air ...)

It had no effect on the taste, but it looked a bit odd. Any suggestions?

In other news, I've nearly finished my first batch of orgeat. Have to make another one. Sigh.

I use the recipe from BeachBum Berry Remixed (scaled-down) which, at first glance, looks very similar to the recipe that you linked in your post. I made it many times and don't get curdling. I get some settling in the container but the orgeat is ready to be used after a brief shake.

How did you strain your orgeat? Maybe you had larger particles left after straining that are causing the separation in the drink? I like to use a fine synthetic (nylon) cheesecloth.

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Tonight,

by Rafa García Febles, NYC.
1 oz Tequila
1 oz Añejo rum
3/4 oz Orgeat
3/8 oz Lemon juice
3/8 oz Lime juice
2 ds Bitters, Angostura
1 Egg white
3 dr Bitters, Bittermens Xocolatl Mole (float)
1 pn Nutmeg (as garnish)
Combine all but mole bitters, shake, strain, rock, float mole bitters and garnish with nutmeg.
Sam Ross' Conquistador by way of the Army & Navy. I've been making my orgeat lately using Kevin Liu's ridiculously simple and delicious recipe (from his book) and been making more orgeat recipes than usual as a result. It results in a creamier and lighter-bodied orgeat than I'm used to, and pairs really well with tequila.


Edited by Rafa (log)
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”In Demerara some of the rum producers have a unique custom of placing chunks of raw meat in the casks to assist in aging, to absorb certain impurities, and to add a certain distinctive character.” -Peter Valaer, "Foreign and Domestic Rum," 1937

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Here's a thing ...

Is it common for orgeat to curdle once it's in a drink? Made another Mai Tai last night and it was quite noticeable. (This prompted memories of our early cocktail experiments, when one of our friends consumed a Brain Haemorrhage [baileys and peach schnapps with a drizzle of Grenadine, served in a shot glass. It's supposed to curdle and look revolting - think zombie brains!] and insisted on a second. Shortly afterwards he felt the need for some fresh air ...)

It had no effect on the taste, but it looked a bit odd. Any suggestions?

In other news, I've nearly finished my first batch of orgeat. Have to make another one. Sigh.

Funny this is mentioned, I had this happen to me for the first time last night. I had made myself a Mai-Tai and was drinking it slowly as I was making beef bourguignon, and after I put it in the oven I looked into my glass and notice the orgeat was definitely curdled. I'm not sure if it was because it was exposed to the lime juice for so long (I can usually finish Mai-Tais in 2.5 seconds flat) or because I added .5 oz more than I usually do, but I found it very odd.

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Thanks, Kyle. Glad I'm not imagining it! Seems to me it has to be either the acid (from the limes) or the alcohol that's doing it, but how come only you and I have noticed?

[Edit: 'limes' doesn't have an 'n' in it ...]


Edited by lesliec (log)

Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

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I've never had an issue with orgeat curdling. I wonder if it's a brand specific thing.

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Mine always curdles if i have not finished the drink in about 20 minutes. I have only used homemade orgeat

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orgeat is basically a sweetened nut milk. nut milks can have very high fat content unless they are centrifuged. commerical products are likely either centrifuged or have an added emulsifier to keep them together.

i started centrifuging mine to get rid of the nut solids and was astounded by how much fat also separated. i started saving the fat to make nut milk heavy creams. and turned the remainder into syrups. the fat-free syrups still have a ton of favor.

in the absence of a centrifuge, adding an emulsifier may help. i also really enjoy adding sugar to commercial almond milks to make a quick cheater orgeat.


abstract expressionist beverage compounder

creator of acquired tastes

bostonapothecary.com

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An emulsifier is an interesting idea. I finished my last batch of orgeat last night, so when I do a new one I might include a bit of lecithin. Any thoughts on the amount? It wouldn't be much - I'm thinking half a teaspoon or less for the size batches I make.


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

eGullet Ethics Code signatory

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I don't think what we're talking about here is curdling. When something curdles, it comes out of emulsion and forms lumps. With dairy products, weak acids start to denature the casein proteins and this causes curdling. We don't have the casein protein in orgeat, so the only way to make curdling happen would be for some other effect to cause the fat to come out of emulsion.

One thing we can note is that it's only homemade oregeat that seems to curdle. Commercial orgeat is made by emulsifying sugar, water and almond oils together, and this doesn't curdle. Even if we hypothesize that homemade orgeat has a much higher fat content compared to commercial orgeat, consider that heavy cream at around 36% fat doesn't curdle. It is unlikely that homemade orgeat approaches the fat content of heavy cream. Curdling also typically produces a characteristic "gritty" or "lumpy" texture, as the flocculated particles form lumps that are discernable to the tongue. Again, typically homemade orgeat is either already gritty or it never gets that way.

Rather, what I think is happening here results from the fact that homemade orgeat contains lots of suspended nut solids. These particles are suspended, but they aren't emulsified. This is because the typical hardware available to the homemade orgeat maker is not sufficient to reduce the particles down to a size at which they could form a colloidal suspension. For this, we would need something like a rotor-stator homogenizer or colloid mill. Because the nut particles are not emulsified in a colloidal suspension, gravity causes them to eventually settle out and fall out of suspension. This is why homemade orgeat typically separates and has to be shaken up before use. When we shake it up, we are re-suspending the nut particles. We can add things to the homemade orgeat (I have found a combination of gum arabic and xanthan gum to be particularly useful in this regard) to help keep the nut particles in suspension and slow down separation, but eventually gravity will have its way and the nut particles will settle out.

So what happens to cause this curdle-like effect? I think what happens is that the orgeat (along with its nut particles) is diluted when it is mixed with all the other liquids, and the suspended nut particles begin to settle out in the glass. If you let the drink sit for a while, of if it is a crushed ice drink so you have millions of tiny little pockets of water melting into the drink and not quite mixing with the nut particles that are coming out of suspension, it will create a mottled "curdle-like" appearance. The reason bostonapothecary's centrifuging technique works, I believe, is primarily because it removes the nut particles. I've always wanted to see what would happen if we took the other path and made an orgeat using a homogenizer to reduce the nut particles to the size of colloids.


Edited by slkinsey (log)

Samuel Lloyd Kinsey

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I don't think what we're talking about here is curdling. When something curdles, it comes out of emulsion and forms lumps. With dairy products, weak acids start to denature the casein proteins and this causes curdling. We don't have the casein protein in orgeat, so the only way to make curdling happen would be for some other effect to cause the fat to come out of emulsion.

One thing we can note is that it's only homemade oregeat that seems to curdle. Commercial orgeat is made by emulsifying sugar, water and almond oils together, and this doesn't curdle. Even if we hypothesize that homemade orgeat has a much higher fat content compared to commercial orgeat, consider that heavy cream at around 36% fat doesn't curdle. It is unlikely that homemade orgeat approaches the fat content of heavy cream. Curdling also typically produces a characteristic "gritty" or "lumpy" texture, as the flocculated particles form lumps that are discernable to the tongue. Again, typically homemade orgeat is either already gritty or it never gets that way.

Rather, what I think is happening here results from the fact that homemade orgeat contains lots of suspended nut solids. These particles are suspended, but they aren't emulsified. This is because the typical hardware available to the homemade orgeat maker is not sufficient to reduce the particles down to a size at which they could form a colloidal suspension. For this, we would need something like a rotor-stator homogenizer or colloid mill. Because the nut particles are not emulsified in a colloidal suspension, gravity causes them to eventually settle out and fall out of suspension. This is why homemade orgeat typically separates and has to be shaken up before use. When we shake it up, we are re-suspending the nut particles. We can add things to the homemade orgeat (I have found a combination of gum arabic and xanthan gum to be particularly useful in this regard) to help keep the nut particles in suspension and slow down separation, but eventually gravity will have its way and the nut particles will settle out.

So what happens to cause this curdle-like effect? I think what happens is that the orgeat (along with its nut particles) is diluted when it is mixed with all the other liquids, and the suspended nut particles begin to settle out in the glass. If you let the drink sit for a while, of if it is a crushed ice drink so you have millions of tiny little pockets of water melting into the drink and not quite mixing with the nut particles that are coming out of suspension, it will create a mottled "curdle-like" appearance. The reason bostonapothecary's centrifuging technique works, I believe, is primarily because it removes the nut particles. I've always wanted to see what would happen if we took the other path and made an orgeat using a homogenizer to reduce the nut particles to the size of colloids.

that explanation sounds pretty good. I have a small colloid mill at my disposal. I stopped playing with it because the experiments got too expensive. I was generating all sort of stuff with no place to sell it. If you come up with an idea I'd love to give it a try.

I had really good success running coconut cream through the colloid mill to homogenize it. I could make cocktails without any globs of fat clinging to the glass. the drinks had a beautiful fluidity and the emptied glasses were film less. but when I tried another recipe where I integrated alcohol into the coconut cream to produce a sort of liqueur version, It didn't work the same way. the fat would clump in the usual way. the difference I cannot explain.


abstract expressionist beverage compounder

creator of acquired tastes

bostonapothecary.com

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That makes sense. Adding xantham gum or gum arabic wouldn't affect the flavor much, would it?

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