Nougat Montelimar: revisted

[Wendy DeBord]

I finally got around to trying the recipe for this that Michael L. generously posted a while back (I've wanted to make this for a long time). First I've gotta mention that I've never eaten this and I'm not totally certain what the finished texture should be when correctly done? So more details would be helpful. Should this be chewie or more similar to marshmellow in texture?

I couldn't get Michael's recipe to work. He has you boiling together your glucose and sugar........I couldn't get this to melt evenly with-out creating caramel with lumps. (This isn't my first time melting sugar (hint), but I had to mention this. Regardless of method.) Has anyone made that exact recipe and had no problems?

So after 2 unsuccessful attempts at melting sugar- I switched to a recipe from Jacques Torres for my first attempt at nougat.

Both men have similarities in method, but different ingredients and different temp.'s. Not being familar with this item I'm not sure which recipe I should use to re-make this in the future. If anyone is very familar with this product I'd greatly appreciate your advice on this.

Michaels recipe:

1600g sugar

340g glucose

Boiled together to 260F. Similarly heating in a seperate pan:

550g honey

brought to a low boil. Poured into:

200g egg whites

After honey is pour into whites and whipped, sugar/glucose mixture is whipped into the honey meringue. He keeps heating his mixing bowl as he works until his sugar tests firm in a bowl of ice water. (I couldn't really get the heat of my bowl to rise enough to cook this while mixing, I was using a 20 qt. mixer.) Then warmed nuts are folded or mixed into the nougat.

Torres recipe goes like this:

1 3/4 c. honey heated to low boil

In a seperate pan:

9 tbsp. h2o

3/4 c. plus 2 tbso. corn syrup

2 1/2 c. sugar

All combined and heated to 330 (note the difference in temp.s compared to Michael L.'s recipe)

Pour the heated honey first into:

1/3 c. egg white

Whip. Then add the h20/sugar/corn syrup mixture into your honey meringue.

Incorporate:

2 2/3 c. nuts

I'm curious about the differences in temp.s because when I followed Torres recipe it was too firm, although it did work. Where as with Michael's recipe I couldn't get the sugar to dissolve evenly. BUT I now suspect that the lower temp. of 260F might have been better (giving me a softer nougat).........that combined with Torres formula would be the way to go. So I'd be grateful for any advice and thoughts on this so in the future I'll be more successful making this item.

[ladyyoung98]

to me it sound slike u r trying to make something that i have always known as divinity except it has honey in it which is ok..but also very good....now if thats what its supposed to be like then it shoudl not be chewey like a marshmallow...but not knowing what its supposed to come out like with the honey in it...could not say for sure so its just some specualtion on my part and glucose is also not called for in divinity..however everything else is right...but divinity itself is a confection... a candy that when made proprly just melts in ur mouth from the first bite and there shoud not be any grainy texture...it truly is wonderful...so..though what u said sounds somewhat like divinity..it may well be somethig different...in which case that would be best answered by those who really knwo about the nougat...but if ever u want to make divinity just let me knwo and i will post u a recipe for it...

[nightscotsman]

Mmmm... nougat....

Nougat should be chewy, smooth and glossy, but much denser than marshmallow or divinity. Ya know "Big Hunk" candy bars? That's nougat (or a rough American commercial version).

The recipe we used in school had us heat the honey to 120 C and the sugar and glucose with water (water will help disolve the sugar without changing the end product, since you have to heat it to the same temp anyway) to 152 C. The only reason to heat them separately is to maintain more honey flavor. Otherwise you could just put it all in the pan together and boil to 149C/300F. I've seen several recipes that use the "torch the mixing bowl method" to continue to cook the mixture while it whips, but I don't see the advantage as long as you cook the sugars to the right temp in the first place.

One difference in the school recipe that I haven't seen elsewhere is the addition of melted cocoa butter. You add it after whipping the mixture for about 5 minutes - so it's fully whipped but still hot. The cocoa butter seemed improve the texture and made the flavor richer and more complex.

[Drewman]

nightscotsman's answer is right on the mark. I melt cocoa butter with some vanilla bean specks and coat the warm toasted nuts (almonds, hazelnuts & pistachios) before adding. Adding dried sour cherries with the nuts really adds flavor and a little color as well.

[jackal10]

I'm confused between what seem to be two different sorts of nougat.

The first is quite dense and chewy - often found as chips in chocolate, such as Toblerone, but also as small bars on its own.

The second is more light and fluffy, and comes in large slices. An example I have is Italian, and is coffee flavoured.

Both have can have nuts, glace cherries etc

Are they both nougat, or is one some other name like nougatine?

Are they from different traditions, such as Montpelier and Italy, or just different makers? Which is "original"? How doie the recipes differ - is one just whipped more, or have more egg white?

[aidensnd2]

I believe that the main difference in nougat variations/recipes is the temperature of the honey/sugar which determines the final consistency of the nougat.

[nightscotsman]

I believe the dense, chewy nougat is more French while the lighter, fluffier kind is more Italian - though you will find both kinds in each country.

Nougatine is an entirely different animal - more of a crispy butter caramel with lots of sliced, granulated and or slivered almonds.

[Wendy DeBord]

I'm going to assume that I was making a French version both times from Michael L. and J. Torres. Agreed that the temp. of the sugar syrup controls the consistancy.........whats everyones target temp.? Do you go with 330F or Michaels 260F? The texture seemed right when I first made it and got firmer overnight.

Two more questions:

1. Dirrections say let it sit overnight, but don't mention whether it's covered or not, opinions?

2. How much cocoa butter roughly?.......just what coats my nuts?

Last comment..........I'm really getting sick of thermometers! Sometimes I've even used 3 in the same pot to cross check, they're never are all at the same temp... and placing them on the edge of the pot has almost a 10 degrees difference then the center of your pot..........I see why many pro.'s don't use them!

[JustKay]

I've made nougat before. The recipe I use has water in it. 3C sugar, 3/4C corn syrup, 3/4C water and 3 egg whites. The temperature is 270. And I just whip it in the mixer like I woud marshmallows but when it's ready the consistency is unlike marshmallow though - it is very thick .. almost like a chocolate chip cookie dough. This nougat is more like the center of a 3 Musketeers or Mars bar.

I'd like to try make the fluffier and lighter (and chewy) nougats that aren't too sweet.

[nightscotsman]

1. Dirrections say let it sit overnight, but don't mention whether it's covered or not, opinions?

Covered with parchment paper that has been brushed with cocoa butter.

2. How much cocoa butter roughly?.......just what coats my nuts?

←

The percentage we used was about 1/4 the weight of nuts, added a little at a time 4 minutes after adding the hot syrup, but before the (toasted and still warm) nuts.

[Wendy DeBord]

Agreed that the temp. of the sugar syrup controls the consistancy.........whats everyones target temp.? Do you go with 330F or Michaels 260F?

←

Thanks for the help Neil. I'm still wondering what temp. is better? ..........because you have to add in the factor of how it sets up.

[aidensnd2]

These are the temps I use:

260 for the honey

295 for the glucose, sugar, water

It sets up quite firm, that's what I like.

You can also dust it with cornflour and then cover with silicon paper.

[nightscotsman]

We took the honey to 120C/248F, the sugar mixture to 152C/306F, or both of them together to 149C/300F. The lower temp on the honey helps it retain more flavor.

[Bux]

I wish I could help, but my knowledge is limited to eating nougat. In Montelimar, where they make lots of nougat well enough to warrant my making a small detour when driving north or south along the Rhone, they sell both the hard and the tender (dur and tendre) nougat. I believe the tender greatly outsells the hard. The saleslady in one of the shops in town seemed to get a big kick out of demonstrating that the hard nougat bars are suitable for self defense. They sell some large bars. I believe that was a kilo bar of the soft we bought. Actually tender is a far better word to describe the soft nougat, than is "soft." It is chewy and you can easily change the shape of piece of nougat by compressing it in your hands. It will not spring back like a marshmallow. The most popular form seems to be with whole almonds and pistachios in a white natural, or perhaps vanilla, nougat, but you can get other nuts and fruits and flavored nougats. I wish I still had the label with the ingredients, but that was several weeks ago and the kilo went in just a few days.

[nolly]

I am a pastry chef and have tried quite a few recipes for nougat. I have tried montelimart nougat and have found that although i boil it to the recommended temperature 290 it did not hold and just oozed everywhere. this is the recipe i used - Iwould appreciate any comments or recipes as everyone else seems so secretive about this product in the industry?

1 lb 2ozs sugar

10 oz honet

2oz glucose

1/4 lb cherries

1 1/4 lb almonds

1/4 lb pistachos

1 T vanilla

1 T orange water

3 egg whites

11/2 gills water

pinch cream tartar

boil sugar water and cream tartar 290. Pour over stiff beaten whites. Beat in warmed honey and glucose. Pour into framesetc etc.... But mine just ooozeed

any suggestions would be appreciated

thanks

nolly

[Drewman]

After you add the honey, switch to a paddle and add the nuts, cherries, etc. on low - medium speed. The mixture will stiffen and you'll need to spread it rather than pour it into your frame. I use equal parts of corn starch & 10x sugar to dust & roll out. Hope this helps, good luck!

[Lesley C]

Nougat de Montelimar has to be dried out. After you've poured in the sugar, beat with a paddle in the mixmaster and heat it with a blowtorch (on the sides of the bowl). It will thicken, fluff up, and dry out.

[Wendy DeBord]

Nolly, welcome to eGullet Society For Arts & Letters!

Lesley C, is also a professional chef (as are many here) and she has a book to her credit too.

[nolly]

well thanks everybody for your advice and useful comments - ill give some of them a go when I get a weekend off and let you all know the results

regards

nolly

[Abra]

I recently bought a container of nougat de Montelimar from L'Epicerie. It was little crunchy bits, very crisp, not in the least chewy or tender, like other nougats I've eaten and loved. This had its own charm, though, and was the sort of thing that you'd use to cover the sides of a cake instead of nuts. I think Lesley C. is describing what I had.

[mikeycook]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I made the Jacques Torres version of the Nougat de Montilimar and had a question.

The nougat came out great in terms of consistency and flavor. However, I was wondering how people store this after cutting without it all sticking together. I have it stacked in tupperware between sheets of parchment (with the glossy side against the parchment) and it is generally fine, but I was wondering how I could package pieces if I wanted to give them as gifts. I used corn starch on my fingers to help roll out the nougat and I was wondering if I should dust them with that.

Any recommendations on packaging would be helpful (not for commercial selling, but just gifts to friends).

[Wendy DeBord]

I believe everyone is using rice paper, top and bottom.

[jgarner53]

I didn't have rice paper when I made it last Christmas. I wrapped the pieces in waxed paper, and that seemed to be fine. My nougat was dense and chewy, but held its shape when cut. Sugar and corn syrup (with a little water) were cooked to 295, honey just to the boil.

[mikeycook]

Thanks for the notes. I am off to purchase some rice paper.

[Becca Porter]

I wanted to tell all of you that the new December 2005 Martha Stewart has a recipe for pistachio-cranberry Torrone. Which is described as nougat. It has honey, pistachios, dried cranberries and coconut. It also utilizes rice paper.

You all made me obsessive about this nougat. I've never tried it before. I was so excited when I saw this recipe. I am off to order rice paper now. Thanks for the inspiration.