Overrated/Underrated

[tommy]

Overrated or underrated perhaps to Person X. But not to the vast majority of restaurant-goers.

A blanket statement such as "China is overrated" isn't exactly helpful, merely provacative.

You can make a rule that says Restaurant Z is overrated or underrated, but ultimately the rule is only applicable to a certain set of people unless supported by sufficient evidence. 

huh? it's a thread with opinions. in this case, opinions on whether a poster thinks that a certain restaurant gets too little or too much credit. what makes this concept so different than 90% of the rest of egullet's content?

some reponses will obviously be more interesting or helpful to some people, and less to others.

Edited October 1, 2004 by tommy (log)

[snausages2000]

Mikeycook, I'm excited to try L'Impero. I've been reading the posts about it on EGullet for the last few months. Pan, if I recall, did like a National Geographic worthy photo essay on it. Although it's highly rated by Zagat (is there a single restaurant that isn't?), it gets nowhere near the word of mouth buzz that Babbo or Lupa get.

Oh, and for the record, Muza said Tocqueville is underrated, so you guys are in fact on the same page. I'd like to try Tocqueville again. I sampled their Prix Fixe Lunch which, though very reasonably priced, offered uninspired choices. I'll give them a waiver because I know they can't trot out their best stuff for $20. (Though the chef did, for reasons unknown, send out a complimentary plate of literally 9 sorbets with our dessert, perhaps as a sort of whimsical gesture to acknowledge a table that had ordered strictly the cheapest possible menu option.)

Soba, your take seems a bit nihilistic. I started this thread in order to encourage people to take shots at, or offer praise for, restaurants they feel the mainstream has misjudged. If you don't relate to the conventional wisdom about a place (or places), here's a chance to vent.

Oh, a new one:

Underrated: Airplane Food. Really, this may seem absurd, but I've had some fairly memorable dishes on transatlantic flights. Of course you'll get the occasionally inedible, but look out for the sporadic triumphs. The dessert on Delta's service to France has been great. Down with restaurants in Italy, up with Airplane food! A popular opinion I'm sure...

[SobaAddict70]

Soba, your take seems a bit nihilistic.  I started this thread in order to encourage people to take shots at, or offer praise for, restaurants they feel the mainstream has misjudged.  If you don't relate to the conventional wisdom about a place (or places), here's a chance to vent.

←

I think that when you're making a statement that Restaurant Z is overrated or underrated, that you need to be very careful that you're stating an opinion and not categorizing something as a rule. (Sorry, my hackles rise when I see statements like these.)

I've never been to a really top echelon place such as TFL or Gary Danko or Per Se...yet. I hope to one of these days, expenses allowing. However I'd never go so far as to say "Top Echelon Restaurant Z" is overrated based on my lack of personal experience there. That's just me.

Snausages, apparently you've never had an experience on *cough* Northwest (that's Northworst to folks who've been on their domestic flights). One "lunch" was a ham and cheese sandwich (roll, neon pink ham, bland American cheese, tube of mustard) and a plastic cup of water.

Soba

[snausages2000]

"I think that when you're making a statement that Restaurant Z is overrated or underrated, that you need to be very careful that you're stating an opinion and not categorizing something as a rule."

--The whole idea is to assert opinions that you feel contradict the rule.

"(Sorry, my hackles rise when I see statements like these.)"

--I hate it when my hackles flare up.

"Snausages, apparently you've never had an experience on *cough* Northwest (that's Northworst to folks who've been on their domestic flights). One "lunch" was a ham and cheese sandwich (roll, neon pink ham, bland American cheese, tube of mustard) and a plastic cup of water. "

--I'm so scared of flying that any meal up there, ie any time spent not dead, feels wondrous. That may taint my view.

[phenomprincess]

Underrated - Blue Ribbon, not sushi just the regular restaurant. I love, love, love their fois gras and the atmosphere there. It is my favorite late night spot in NYC, above and beyond Landmark, which many have praised highly. My meal at LM was decent, but of no comparison to BR, IMHO. So I guess I would say that Landmark is my choice for overrated.

[Pan]

Oh, a new one:

Underrated:  Airplane Food.  Really, this may seem absurd, but I've had some fairly memorable dishes on transatlantic flights.  Of course you'll get the occasionally inedible, but look out for the sporadic triumphs.  The dessert on Delta's service to France has been great.

←

Somehow, I figure you weren't flying Economy Class. But if you want to discuss airline food, there's already a fairly long thread that you can contribute to.

[snausages2000]

Economy all the way!

Never been on the other side of the curtain...

[Mike Pardus]

Am I being baited?

Why not, I'll play.

Overrated:

Craft

.Lupa

.San Dominico

.WD50!!!

.I wouldn't say that Per Se is overrated, but it was not perfection and it most certianly should have been (two courses were off. Halibut was totaly over cooked and pasta had zero seasoning).

.Culinary Institute of Americas' Chef instructors (that may be a seperate thread)

Underrated:

.Cafe Boulud

.Annisa

.Tocqueville

←

[Dave H]

Ditto Landmarc for overrated, at least by eGulleters. (Everyone else seemed to get it right, and even I'd say one star in the Times is a tad rough.) I was bitterly disappointed by the taste-free marrow bones after the same dish at Prune had totally rocked my world. In general, Landmarc's only distinction seems to be selling huge portions at reasonable prices. Pay $9 for a nice-drinking Rioja and get a half bottle instead of a glass. Buy $12 worth of otherwise standard fois gras and get a giant hunk instead of a little slice. 20 bucks for sweetbreads in an uninspired sauce buys twelve instead of maybe seven or eight. I mean, that's nice, as far as it goes, but I don't see where all the hoopla came from. Another way to put it: basically a gussied-up Cheesecake Factory.

Now, having said all that on the basis of one visit to Landmarc, I'm going to put on my hypocrisy hat and join the chorus urging snausages to give Lupa another shot. My first time there I found it fine, but quite disappointing. My second visit--whether due to better ordering, more realistic expectations, I dunno what--was incredible. The best Italian meal I've ever had. (I spent four months in Italy, albeit on the cheap.)

Finally, I'm not sure if anyone's overrating it, but Estiatorio Milos deserves some sort of trophy for most overpriced. Since no one's asking, I'll just call that overrated.

[Mulcahy]

Am I being baited?

←

I was wondering the same thing.

Overrated:

Carmine's. I don't get it.

Next Door Nobu. Never been to its big brother, which I am sure is terrific, but have had two very mediocre meals at Next Door Nobu.

Stone Rose. Not food, but please. Bourdain described it as a "high class hooters" and I think he's right on the money.

Rosa Mexicana. Overpriced food (but excellent margaritas).

Underrated:

Veritas. I know it's a three star place, but it gets left out of many conversations about important restaurants in NYC. And I think it belongs on that list.

Pampano.

Edited October 2, 2004 by Mulcahy (log)

[Stone]

I'm surprised people think that Carmines is overrated. It's "rating" is for a family, fun, kitschy restaurant. I've eaten there many times. You get large portions of pretty good food, heavy on the garlic. At very reasonable prices. It's not trying to impress people. I've never had a bad meal there.

[hrowe]

I know I'm in the minority, but I always felt that Amma was overrated. Nice place with great service - but I never understood the praises it recieved, especially here on eGullet...

[tupac17616]

Over-rated:

Lombardi's

Ciao Bella

Artisanal

Gonzo

Blue Smoke

Under-rated:

Lupa

Crispo

Union Square Cafe

Via Emilia

Totonno

Flor de Mayo

Di Fara (yes, there are still some doubters out there)

[Pan]

Who's underrating Totonno's?

[Eric_Malson]

I'm surprised people think that Carmines is overrated.  It's "rating" is for a family, fun, kitschy restaurant.  I've eaten there many times.  You get large portions of pretty good food, heavy on the garlic.  At very reasonable prices.  It's not trying to impress people.  I've never had a bad meal there.

←

I completely agree with this....I've never had a bad meal there, either. It's certainly not billing itself as any sort of "destination" restaurant. And depending on what you order and the night, the food can be far better than "pretty good". The rigatoni country-style and the Tuesday night double-rack of lamb special are pretty consistently wonderful....not haute cuisine, certainly, but damn good food. And the chocolate chip bread pudding is probably my favorite dessert in North America.

As for overrated (although I don't hear too many people talking about it these days): I was never more disappointed in a restaurant, in relation to the ridiculous hype, than my meal at Ouest.

[tupac17616]

Who's underrating Totonno's?

By underrated, I don't mean that Totonno's is ever slammed, necessarily (although I have seen many complaints, on chowhound, for example, about limp crust, bland cheese, soggy toppings, etc). I just mean that I find their pies to be consistently wonderful, but it seems to me like Totonno's is not mentioned enough in discussion of the upper echelon of NYC pizza. Seems like Lombardi's, Patsy's, Grimaldi's, and John's on Bleecker get comparitively way too much hype. So basically, I am arguing that Totonno's is underrated when compared to the other notable NYC pizza institutions.

[Pan]

I take your point but note that Totonno's is justly famous and has received praise in the Pizza Forum thread, very much including from yours truly. Most of us did find the plain slice at Grimaldi's and the original Patsy's in East Harlem superior, though, and DiFara's continues to be my favorite New York pizzeria, so far. But I don't think any of us questioned that Totonno's is one of the top places for a slice in the city, and all of us loved the fact that it's owned and run by a family who are obviously terrific people and have great pride in their work.

Edited October 4, 2004 by Pan (log)

[tupac17616]

And the great thing about this talk about Totonno's is the fact that so many people can argue so passionately about so many pizzerias being the best among the best. That eternal dispute is a true testament to the greatness of NYC pizza. And that is just one of the reasons I love living (and eating pizza) here in this great city

[mikeycook]

I would just like to make clear that I do infact feel that Tocqueville is underrated.

←

My bad. Apparently I can't read.

[mikeycook]

Mikeycook, I'm excited to try L'Impero.  I've been reading the posts about it on EGullet for the last few months.  Pan, if I recall, did like a National Geographic worthy photo essay on it.  Although it's highly rated by Zagat (is there a single restaurant that isn't?), it gets nowhere near the word of mouth buzz that Babbo or Lupa get.

Oh, and for the record, Muza said Tocqueville is underrated, so you guys are in fact on the same page.  I'd like to try Tocqueville again.  I sampled their Prix Fixe Lunch which, though very reasonably priced, offered uninspired choices.  I'll give them a waiver because I know they can't trot out their best stuff for $20.  (Though the chef did, for reasons unknown, send out a complimentary plate of literally 9 sorbets with our dessert, perhaps as a sort of whimsical gesture to acknowledge a table that had ordered strictly the cheapest possible menu option.)

Soba, your take seems a bit nihilistic.  I started this thread in order to encourage people to take shots at, or offer praise for, restaurants they feel the mainstream has misjudged.  If you don't relate to the conventional wisdom about a place (or places), here's a chance to vent.

Oh, a new one:

Underrated:  Airplane Food.  Really, this may seem absurd, but I've had some fairly memorable dishes on transatlantic flights.  Of course you'll get the occasionally inedible, but look out for the sporadic triumphs.  The dessert on Delta's service to France has been great.  Down with restaurants in Italy, up with Airplane food!  A popular opinion I'm sure...

←

My apologies (again) to Muza for my inability to read.

On the L'Impero thought, I have to thank eGullet because I had no awareness of it (other than just a name in Zagat) until I saw the excellent responses on this site.

[mikeycook]

I'm surprised people think that Carmines is overrated.  It's "rating" is for a family, fun, kitschy restaurant.  I've eaten there many times.  You get large portions of pretty good food, heavy on the garlic.  At very reasonable prices.  It's not trying to impress people.  I've never had a bad meal there.

I completely agree with this....I've never had a bad meal there, either.  It's certainly not billing itself as any sort of "destination" restaurant.  And depending on what you order and the night, the food can be far better than "pretty good".  The rigatoni country-style and the Tuesday night double-rack of lamb special are pretty consistently wonderful....not haute cuisine, certainly, but damn good food.  And the chocolate chip bread pudding is probably my favorite dessert in North America.

As for overrated (although I don't hear too many people talking about it these days):  I was never more disappointed in a restaurant, in relation to the ridiculous hype, than my meal at Ouest.

←

My comments on Carmine's were not related to the food so much. The food can be very good at both locations and the family-style serving can be a lot of fun. However, I have an aversion to going places where people treat you like (insert unmentionable reference to bodily function here). I don't care how good the food is.

The hosts at both Carmine's have been among the rudest I have ever met (La Cote Basque would give them a run for their money if still open). They rarely seem to care if they give you a table wait time that is within an hour of when you are actually seated and if you ask when the table will be available, I always get condescending smirks and comments. Obviously, they are usually packed, so I guess they don't care if you leave or ever come back.

Just so folks don't think I'm the type of customer that's a handful for the staff, Carmine's is the only place, other than La Cote Basque, where I have been treated like garbage and, unlike La Cote Basque, I have experienced this 4-5 times at Carmine's (in short, every time I have been, at least twice at each location). I would certainly not call the experience fun and I would never take my family (I can always treat them like garbage on my own).

If they aren't trying to impress, then they have succeeded with me.

Is that flippant and impulsive enough?

Edited October 4, 2004 by mikeycook (log)

[bpearis]

But I don't think any of us questioned that Totonno's is one of the top places for a slice in the city, and all of us loved the fact that it's owned and run by a family who are obviously terrific people and have great pride in their work.

←

I think Totonno's gets plenty of recognition. It's just the hardest to get to of the Big Five (or however many are considered in the "best" category). Their basic cheese pizza is my favorite in the city, though maybe the location and atmosphere of the place has something to do with it. I know you just meant "pizza" when you used the word "slice," but in case anyone heads to Coney Island anytime soon, Totonno's doesn't sell slices.

PS I went to Franny's for the first time yesterday. It's a contender for sure. I liked the guanciale and the clam pizzas the best, though that garlic sausage was great too. Like Totonno's, I wish it were closer to where I lived -- though they're putting in a Franny's-esque place here in Williamburg that I wish would get a move on and open.

[snausages2000]

Over-rated:

Lombardi's

Ciao Bella

Artisanal

Gonzo

Blue Smoke

←

I too have been underwhelmed by Ciao Bella. It may be the individual franchise's that're to blame (rather than the gelato itself), but I prefer, by a lot, Il Laboratorio Del Gelato.

[ktimmy99]

nice thread snausages....

agree with franny's in brooklyn, went there in it's infancy, and it was great, went there again last week, and it was also great. a little pricey, but i have no problem paying a little extra for someone who cares about where they get their ingredients from.

ciao bella does suck, they use crappy bases for their gelato, il laboratorio is great, as is the gelati at otto

also had great, cheap sushi at haseki last night, not knowing that you were touting it as such.

snausages, go to per se, then talk about it. tk is a genius among american cooks, the attention to detail in every aspect of his operation is without comparison in the us. the love and obsession that goes into the food there is insane. check it out, i'll go with you.

[Sneakeater]

Maybe this has been done here before and my search skills weren't up to finding it, but some items in recent threads made me reflect that there are some restaurants where I can't understand why they don't get more attention than they do from the NYC foodie community, and some others that I can't understand what the big deal is. I thought it would be interesting to see other people's lists of those categories. Here are a few of of mine, just off the top of my head. If this thread goes anywhere, I'll supplement as I think of more -- but really I'm interested to see what others have to say.

Why Don't They Get More Play?

Sumile

Oceana

What's The Big Deal?

The Tasting Room

L'Impero

Moderator's Note: The "Overpraised/Underpraised" thread was merged here.

Edited December 24, 2005 by Pan (log)